Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

putnanja
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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby putnanja » 23 Jan 2009 03:06

Germany unsure if LeT directly behind attacks

New Delhi: Even as it acknowledged that all information about the Mumbai Terror attacks pointed to the involvement of the Lashkar-e-Toiba, Germany on Thursday said it could not be conclusively ascertained as of now whether the Pakistan-based group was “directly” responsible for carrying out the incident. :?:

The comments were made by Joerg Ziercke, the head of Germany’s Federal Police, after detailed discussions with a range of Indian officials, including National Security Advisor M K Narayanan and Home Secretary Madhukar Gupta. “Based on the information coming out from the investigations, we can say that it is the LeT which is behind these attacks. But whether it was directly responsible, that is something that we are not completely sure of as yet,” Ziercke told reporters.

German Ambassador to India Bernd Mutzelberg said his country expected Pakistan to act swiftly on the evidence provided by India.

Ziercke’s trip follows last month’s visit by German Federal Minister for Interior Wolfgang Schauble who was invited by the Indian Government for discussions in the wake of the Mumbai attacks in which three Germans were also killed.

Ziercke also held meetings with heads of the Intelligence Bureau, the newly-constituted National Investigating Agency, Central Bureau of Investigation and the Narcotics Control Bureau. He shared Germany’s experience in fighting terrorism after the September 11, 2001 attacks in New York while the Indian side presented him fresh details of the investigations into the Mumbai incident.

The two sides agreed to step up cooperation on terror-related issues and ensure regular exchange of information between the investigating agencies of the two countries. An exchange programme for police officials was also proposed to be set up with the National Police Academy in Hyderabad.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby svinayak » 23 Jan 2009 07:49

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries ... _toiba.htm
.

The group has links with many international Islamist terrorist groups like the Ikhwan-ul-Musalmeen of Egypt and other Arab groups.

LeT has a unit in Germany
and also receives help from the Al Muhajiraun, supporter of Sharia Group, (Abu Hamza Masari- of Mosque Finsbury Park, North London) and its annual convention is regularly attended by fraternal bodies in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Yemen, Bahrain, Oman, Kosovo, Bangladesh, Myanmar, USA, Palestine, Bosnia, Philippines, Jordan, Chechnya, etc.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby IndraD » 23 Jan 2009 09:06

26/11 probe: Where were top brass?

Initially, there were reports that while the lower rung officials were on the spot immediately after news of the terror strikes at CST, Taj, Oberoi and Nariman House, most of the senior officials barring a few IPS officials were not seen on the spot.
"The panel has asked all IPS officials to state where they were after the attack. They have been asked to submit details, along with logbook entries, to the committee,'' a senior official said.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby ShauryaT » 23 Jan 2009 09:55

Pak says it gave "blank cheque" to China to talk with India

PTI | Islamabad


Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi has said that Pakistan had given a "blank cheque" to China authorising it to negotiate with India on its behalf to deal with the aftermath of the Mumbai terrorist attacks.

Speaking at a reception at the Chinese embassy in Islamabad last night, Qureshi said he had told Chinese special envoy He Yafei to "go to Delhi and you have a blank cheque from us".

The minister said he had told the envoy that Pakistan would endorse whatever China, all-weather friend of Pakistan, would tell India.

The Chinese envoy visited Pakistan on December 29 and, during his meetings with the country's leaders, had indicated that Beijing would remain engaged with Islamabad to promote peace and stability in the region.

Soon after Yafei's visit, Pakistan made two proposals for defusing tensions – it asked India to "de-activate" forward airbases and relocate troops to peace-time positions.

The Chinese envoy travelled to New Delhi on January 5 and urged India to resume the dialogue with Pakistan.

Qureshi also said that Pakistan regarded its ties with China as the cornerstone of its foreign policy.

"We have complete trust, mutual understanding and convergence of views on bilateral, regional and international issues," he said.

The bilateral relations, "which have withstood regional and global changes", would "flourish in the days ahead", Qureshi said.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby archan » 23 Jan 2009 10:46

So are the Germans afraid of that one cell or are they in bed with them? oh how low the mighty have fallen. :roll:

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Satya_anveshi » 23 Jan 2009 10:58

ShauryaT wrote:Pak says it gave "blank cheque" to China to talk with India


This guys is still not fired by b00bsqueezer? Pakistan's sovirginity has a wide hole in it and China has unlimited access to it?

Taller than Taller fliend will very soon give a fitting response for this and BAAM it will strike on Pukes H-undee

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby RaviS » 23 Jan 2009 12:42

archan wrote:So are the Germans afraid of that one cell or are they in bed with them? oh how low the mighty have fallen. :roll:


It is very tempting to paint any country as BAD and UGLY if they say/do something which does not go along with our views. But we should remember and understand the old saying; there are no permanent friends or permanent enemies in international relation only permanent interest. Every nation has to further the well-being and security of their citizens and if they perceive that an alliance with another nation will secure those interests, they enter into one. Those interests may be invisible to us but they are well researched and well discussed in appropriate forums. For example, the recent Iraq War in which France, a hitherto staunch ally of the US, did not support the US-led war. This was in stark contrast to the US-led war in Afghanistan a few years ago, in which France supported the US in their war efforts. Therefore, nations do not have permanent friends, only permanent interests.

But our irony is that GOI doesn’t know which country he belongs, leave apart the national interest.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby RayC » 23 Jan 2009 14:53

SAG the real NSG

JANGBIR SINGH RANGI

“Our Gods and Soldiers we alike adore,
at the time of danger, not before;
after deliverance both are alike requited,
our Gods forgotten and our Soldiers slighted”
- Francis Quarrels.


Post 26/11 incident, one evening while watching TV, I heard one former DGP & former commissioner of Mumbai police telling a TV anchor and interviewer that NSG is also a pure police force hence pay scales of constabulary be increased due to high risk involved in their job. I was really shocked & surprised at the level of ignorance of such a senior police officer and felt that if a person of DGP stature can openly take the credit of undertaking operations which they never carried out than what about common mortals. I could not stop myself pitying on DGP’s ignorance and immediately decided to pen down the facts for the benefit of our readers.

First and foremost I must make it clear that I have nothing against police and Para Military Forces (PMF). We all have our own responsibilities & duties and it is in the interest of our country that we work with mutual trust, support & coordination. In fact if we read the history of Police and PMFs, we will come to know that all these forces were raised by army persons only. How ever off late it is being felt that armed forces (Army, Navy & Air Force) are being victimized and marginalized at their own cost. The sixth pay commission is blatant example of this. A martyr is a martyr whether he is from army or from police and utmost tribute and homage must be paid to their martyrdom but the supreme sacrifices being made by armed forces are merely treated as statistics in the files of bureaucrats’ where else even a small operation undertaken by other services or individuals is exaggerated to such an extent that it gives an impression as if they have stopped a foreign aggression single handedly. Little bit inter and intra organizational rivalry is always good for healthy competition but when a senior person of DGP rank undermines the sacrifice of army people & openly declares them to be constables of police than every respectable soldier feels hurt and is forced to pick up the might of the pen to put the things in correct perspective.

During seventies, terrorism, both domestic and international was at its pinnacle in the developed countries. It included taking of hostages, hijacking of aircrafts and other vehicles, assassination of VIPs, bombing & storming of sensitive places and others. The conventional law and order machinery and the security forces of these countries were found lacking to deal with this menace. Specially trained and equipped Forces like DELTA Force of USA, GSG-9 of West Germany and SAS of UK were raised to tackle this burning issue. The necessity for raising a Special Force for carrying out surgical operations based on real time tactical intelligence was felt due to debacle of Operation Blue Star at the Golden Temple, Amritsar in 1984.

This operation not only caused extensive damage to the Golden Temple but also led to a large number of casualties of army & civilians and the religious sentiments of Sikhs were also badly hurt. NSG was conceptualized and raised after studying and analyzing Special Forces like SAS in the United Kingdom, GIGN in France, GSG-9 in Germany, Shar-et-matkal in Israel and DELTA Force in the USA. The NSG has total personnel strength of about 7500 and consists of selected and highly motivated personnel from the Army as well as the Para Military Forces. 54% of the personnel are drawn from the Army while the Para Military Forces like BSF, CRPF and ITBP contribute 46%.It is divided mainly into two Groups - the Special Actions Group (SAG) and the Special Rangers Group. The SAG, which comprises 54% of the total force is the elite offensive wing drawn from members of the Indian Army. The SRG has a more supportive role and consists of members from central police organizations. The other supporting units / sub units like Communication Squadron, Support Weapon Squadron, Bomb Disposal Squadron and Dog Units also draw their manpower from Army to augment their operational efficiency. The average tenure for a paramilitary personal is for around five years and for an army personal is two to three years. It is pertinent to mention here that NSG was raised by non other than army persons only and all the training and operational matters till date in NSG are handled by army personals.


Operations and Training

National Security Guard was raised to carry out counter terrorism (CT) and counter hijack (CH) operations in the country. 51 SAG, the oldest unit of NSG is trained and equipped to carry out CT Operations, while 52 SAG is trained and equipped for CH Operations. CT & CH tasks are very specialized and high risk operations and the best and fittest of personnel are required for these assignments.

Both these elite units draw their manpower exclusively from Indian Army. In addition to that NSG is also entrusted with close protection and mobile security duties of threatened VIPs of Z + category risk. The VIP security is undertaken by SRG who draw their men from paramilitary forces

The NSG came into lime light and prominence by conducting two important surgical operations named Operation Black Thunder I and Black Thunder II in Golden Temple Amritsar in mid and late eighties. These two operations were carried out with the minimum fire power, casualties & damages and maximum psychological effect. Even during those days these operations were carried out under the glaring eyes of Indian & Foreign media. These two operations were first of its kind in India where new tactics & technologies were adopted. The well trained, highly motivated and well equipped 51 SAG (Army Unit) not only completed these operations with élan, but also had no adverse ramification thereafter. These operations led to the demoralization of Punjab militants and they trail blazed in bringing peace and prosperity to the Punjab. Though these Operations were carried out by 51 SAG (unit consisted of exclusively army personals) but the lime light was hogged by than DGP of Punjab Police. Though it is not possible to narrate all the operations carried out by NSG but the summary of important surgical operations carried out by NSG (51 and 52 SAG) are given below:

l Op Cactus Lilly. Commandos were mobilized for operations in Male, Maldives. (b) Op Mouse Trap. Commandos were deployed in Distt Taran Taaran (Punjab). More than 25 militants were killed and a large number of weapons & ammunition were recovered.

l Op Agni Baan. Punjab terrorists were holed up inside a house in Baroda. 2 terrorists were killed and their weapons recovered.

l Op Ghost Buster. 51 SAG Commandos were deployed with SIT for search and strike missions after the assassination of Mr. Rajiv Gandhi.

l Op Sudarshan. 51 SAG Commandos were deployed at Ayodhya during Babri Masjid dispute.

l Op Winter Storm. 51 SAG along with supporting elements were moved on 27 Oct 93 to Srinagar to flush out militants from Hazratbal Shrine. Operations were called off after a prolonged siege of almost a month though the final preparations for assault had been made.

l Operations Vajrashakti in Akshardham Temple. 51 SAG was flown to rescue hostages held by terrorist in Akshardham Temple Gandhinagar. This was the first operation in which two commandos of 51 SAG attained martyrdom. All the militants were killed with no causalities to hostages & damage to the temple.

l Operation Trident, Black Tornado and Cyclone – Recently held operations to flush out the terrorists and rescue hostages post multiple attacks across Mumbai. Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan & Hav Gajender Singh made their supreme sacrifice while combating the terrorists. Another gallant officer Capt AK Singh is battling for his life in a Mumbai hospital after loosing his one eye. No electronic & print media reporter, bureaucrat and no public representative have had the basic courtesy to visit this real hero who dared and went beyond the call of this duty. I pray such insensitivity is not meted out to any other battle causality. These were one of the most difficult operations carried out at three different locations simultaneously by any special force of the world. The majority of the Special Forces of the world have already complimented the 51 SAG for their exemplary way in which these operations were carried out.

Anti Hijacking Operations

52 SAG is earmarked and trained for Anti Hijacking Operations. Along with 52 SAG, 52 BD and 52 Dog Units (All units consists of Army personnel’s) provide the Bomb Disposal and detection cover to this force. 52 SAG is based at Samalakha near IGI Airport. The composite task force for Anti Hijack Operations based on a Boeing 747 aircraft is quarantined for 2 months at a time at Samalakha and placed at 30 minutes notice.Some of the Anti Hijack Operations which were undertaken by 52 SAG commandos are as under:-


The Bomb Disposal and Dog Units are to support the operations of the two SAGs. However, they also handle bomb incidents and bomb threats. They carry out Anti Sabotage check of Parliament House during parliament sessions, important buildings, vehicles and also for PM, President and visiting Heads of State. The Bomb Disposal and Dog Units have taken part in most of the operations conducted by the SAGs. They have also been deployed in Delhi for major events like Republic Day parade, Independence Day celebrations, SAARC & other international summits etc.


It is quite evident from above that the cutting edge of NSG and all the elements of the surgical force of NSG are army people and till date all the operations carried out by NSG have been carried by non other than army persons posted in SAGs. In fact all the martyrs of NSG are also army persons though they were wearing the NSG Uniform. It is high time that an Army Officer be made DG of NSG as it would ensure better command and control for the special commando operations. More over the army officers especially from Special Forces & Infantry have more experience in counter-terror operations than police officers. Besides providing a better synergy, the presence of a senior army officer at the helm of affairs as DG NSG will increase the moral of SAGs commandos many fold.

Lt Col Jangbir Singh Rangi is a former 51 SAG officer and presently working in a MNC in Gurgaon.

http://www.salute.co.in/110109/lifestyl ... ature.html

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby shyamd » 23 Jan 2009 17:13

DNW analysis. Very interesting info about the undercover operation.
India Probes Mumbai Attack
Double Agents and SIM Cards


What happens when an Indian undercover agency, the Indian Intelligence Bureau - which fields only 400 counter-terror agents in a population of 1.1 billion - is out of sync with External Indian Intelligence RAW (India's equivalent of the America CIA) and another twelve or so services operating in India and abroad?

Not surprisingly, the result is a mess, such as the one that surfaced on Dec. 5, when Mukhtar Ahmed Sheikh, 35, originally from Indian-controlled Kashmir, was detained in Delhi.

Another man, Tausif Rehman, 26, was picked up in his home town of Kolkata (Calcutta), capital of West Bengal, earlier that day. Both were on the run.

Ahmed was accused of procuring mobile phone cards for Lashkar e-Taiba, the Islamist group accused of staging the bloody 60-hour Mumbai siege which left 171 dead.

His arrest might have been celebrated by the undercover agency as a big coup, except for a fly in the ointment: Ahmed turned out to be an undercover agent who had penetrated the Laskhar e-Taiba for the Jammu and Kashmir police. He had been handing out phone cards to terror operatives, so enabling Indian security forces to tap their conversations.

Ahmed did his best to explain this to the New Delhi police. They refused to check with their Jammu and Kashmir colleagues. Instead, they broke his arrest to the media as a success story. The agent's cover was blown as a result, his family jeopardized and Indian intelligence lost a valuable asset.



Phone cards planted on terrorists

The next police discovery was that suspects arrested in Kolkata had bought at least 22 of the planted phone cards under forged identifies and sent them to Pakistan.

So far, investigators of the Mumbai attack have traced five of the SIM cards said to have been used by the gunmen who perpetrated it.

Jawed Shamim, Kolkata's police commissioner said: "Our unconfirmed reports from sister agencies tell us that one of the SIM cards has been found in Mumbai. The cards enabled the gunmen to communicate with each other and their controllers in Pakistan, without giving away their identities or whereabouts."

The two suspects, according to Indian police, were confederates. Rehmen was Ahmed's Kolkata contact and logistical supplier of Lashkar e-Taiba. As such, he sold his Kashmir friend the SIM cards which Ahmed later handed round to its members for the police to monitor.

When Rehman realized the West Bengal police were on to him, he fled, alerting Ahmed on the way. After he was caught, he agreed to help the police trap Ahmed who had meanwhile reached Delhi. Following police instructions, Rehman called Ahmed, said his wife was desperately ill and he needed the money still owed him for the 22 SIM cards. He said he was sending two friends to pick it up and asked for Ahmed's address.

The friends who knocked on the Kashmiri's door were police officers.

But then came more questions.

Mukhtar Ahmed Sheikh was found by the arresting officers in the Jammu and Kashmir government's guest house in Delhi. With him was a J and K police sub-inspector. It was then confirmed that the arrested man was a counter-insurgency undercover agent whose contacts with terrorist organizations, particularly the Laskhar e-Taiba, had been useful for planting the SIM cards on its members.

As the police investigation unfolded, the identities of the two suspects began to emerge.

One double agent, one shady entrepreneur

DEBKA-Net-Weekly's intelligence and counter-terror sources were told that, notwithstanding vigorous Indian denials, Ahmed did indeed turn out to be a double agent who infiltrated Lashkar e-Taiba to help the Kashmir police's counter-terror effort, whereas Tausif Rehman was on the face of it an entrepreneur who turned a profit by flogging SIM cards to terrorists, intelligence agents, police, mobsters - or anyone with the right price.

The intelligence value of his phone cards depended on their place of origin. If they prove to have come from outside India, Rehman may not have been a small fry just making a buck after all, as the Indian police claim, but a more sinister cog in the terror machine.

The Times of India of Dec. 10 hinted as much in an article captioned: "City SIMs offer greater cover, say investigators. Why do terrorists across the country favor SIM cards from Bengal?

"This question has security agencies baffled," an Indian police officer confided to the newspaper: 'It helps to evade detection. Millions of local calls are made every hour and it is nearly impossible to keep tabs on them unless there is specific information about numbers that need to be monitored. In comparison, STD or ISD calls are fewer and may be under the scanner when there is an alert.

'Add to this the ease with which information can be passed if local SIMs are used. Anyone can walk into a PCO and make calls, Even if tapped, it would be impossible to nab the caller. He would be miles away before police reached the PCO,' said the officer."

The article ends with this telling paragraph:

"It has also come to light that authorities are on the lookout for details of a particular SIM that was obtained by Tausif Rehman who has been arrested for procuring a large number of SIMs in Kolkata in December 2006 in the name of his dead uncle Ashraf Numani. The SIM was procured from an outlet in Phears Lane and activated by a distributor on Sarat Bose Road on December 22, 2006. While other SIMs in Numani's name have been accounted for, this one has not been traced…"


Voice-over device keeps phone calls "under the scanner"

DEBKA-Net-Weekly's sources add: This and other leads have caused the Indian police and intelligence to look into the possibility of Rehman having been in contact with the terrorist group as early as two years ago, possibly through Ahmed. His cooperation with them may have extended beyond the sale of phone cards and given him access to Lashkar's plans, including the Mumbai attack.

According to some Indian sources, New Delhi's intelligence services monitored members' phone calls through the SIM cards and would therefore have been forewarned of the prospective siege of Mumbai.

Not necessarily, because of another twist to the mobile phone saga.

Nine of the cell phones found in the terrorists' possession after the attack were shown to have been rigged with Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) devices. This gadget uses complicated digital codes to make calls harder to trace and tap by traditional listening technology.

It is too sophisticated for the rank-and-file jihadi to fit on his mobile. It was installed either by a professional undercover service such as Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), for the purpose of jamming Indian monitoring technology, or by professional technicians at Indian cell phone companies, who were sympathetic to Lashkar e-Taiba and willing to help the terrorists keep their communications "under the scanner."

One such company could be located in Bengal. It would answer the question posed by the Times of India: "Why do terrorists across the country favor SIM cards from Bengal?"

The Indian Mumbai investigation is meandering rather than pushing forward in a straight line because the intelligence and counter-terror bodies involved are often as much at pains to slide over their lapses as to expose the truth.

Aware of this
, Indian home minister Palaniappan Chidambaram, speaking in parliament Dec. 11 was moved to promise that measures would be pursued to fix the intelligence lapses and "logistical weakness" which were exposed by the Islamist terrorist siege of Mumbai.

archan
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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby archan » 23 Jan 2009 18:25

I would love to find out if *any* action was taken against the agents who did not believe the double-agent's story, did not confirm his story from J&K police and also released the news about his arrest to the media along with his name. Too much job security in the public sector hurts the nation IMO. People need to be fired more often, that's when they learn from experience.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby John Snow » 23 Jan 2009 21:05

Bungling algore!

Meanwhile the second (Maasikam) monthly shraddha cermony awaits for the victims of Mumbai Massacre, with nothing to show! :((

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby ramana » 23 Jan 2009 22:55

Pandus maybe pandus but they are working quite well and will get to the bottom of it eventually. Covert ops require need to know and in cases of such magnitude links get crossed. And when one is digging for root cause one has to follow all the trails to see where they lead.

The real deal is whats with cellphones in West Bengal? even Hyd case had Kolkota connections. Maybe they get smuggled from BD into West bengal?
Is there an outfit that does this VoIP rigging on cell phones?

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Nash_M » 23 Jan 2009 22:58

archan wrote:nashm: you need to choose a more human-sounding username according to BRF rules. If you have a preference, please let us know. I am changing your username to NishantM until then.


Archan, Nash is my short name and 'M' is first letter of my last name so I request you to change the name back 'NashM'. I leave it upto you. You can delete this post once the changes are done.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby enqyoob » 23 Jan 2009 23:02

The answer to the WB link and the VOiP enabled cellphones may be "Peopre's Ribelation Almy". They have enough production facilities to churn out SIMS.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby ramana » 23 Jan 2009 23:20

is there a counterfit SIMS selling operation in India?

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby enqyoob » 24 Jan 2009 03:58

Why counterfeit? It is a well-known ploy that the PLA mass production factories in China do some "side business" with the orders that they get. So Nokia asks for 100,000,000,000,000 SIMS for their phones, PLA makes 100,000,000,200,000. Marked "Fol Expolt Onry". Who is 2 know?

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby ramana » 24 Jan 2009 04:06

But will they work in local Indian network?

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby John Snow » 24 Jan 2009 05:44

Ok so we have internal security covered by NSG etc.
What about sending a message by crossing yellow sea and raiding the terror camps?

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Pranay » 24 Jan 2009 21:55

http://www.economist.com/world/asia/dis ... d=12992593

The practical limits to international willingness in pursuing Pakistan. India has to take a unilateral stance in tackling terrorism. Hoping that the electorate will vote taking into account the spineless reaction of the present govt. post Bombay 26/11.

India and Pakistan

Diplomatic outsourcing
Jan 22nd 2009 | DELHI
From The Economist print edition

India’s disillusionment with its allies

AP

BrahMos: the alternative to jaw-jaw?ON JANUARY 26th India will celebrate Republic Day, a national holiday to mark the adoption of the constitution. Troops will march past the ramparts of Delhi’s Red Fort, camel-mounted cavalry will charm onlookers, and the air force will fly overhead. But six days before the big occasion, India held a more pointed show of force. In the desert near Pakistan, it tested a BrahMos cruise missile, with a range of 290km (180 miles). The trial was routine. But in these tense times, the missile bore a full payload of symbolism.

India’s government is dissatisfied with Pakistan’s grudging response to the attacks on Mumbai last November. It suspects the terrorists acted with the army’s tacit consent and perhaps its active connivance. It wants Pakistan to shut down the infrastructure of terrorism—the networks that recruit, train, equip and finance jihadists—and to hand over a list of suspects, accused of plotting terrorist atrocities in India.

To bolster its demands, India is counting on outside powers to intercede on its behalf. Measured in air-miles, the diplomatic effort has been impressive: Joe Biden, America’s new vice-president, and Condoleezza Rice, its former secretary of state, have made the trip to Islamabad, as have Britain’s prime minister, foreign secretary and defence secretary.

But the results of this globe-trotting are harder to verify. Pakistan eventually admitted that India had “provided significant proof” of the involvement of Pakistan nationals, but it insists they acted without state support. It has outlawed Jamaat-ud-Dawa, which was a front for the terrorist group that nurtured the Mumbai attackers. It has closed some camps and arrested scores of people. But Pakistan has never handed over one of its nationals to India for trial. It is not ready to start now.

Pakistan says it will act on the evidence India has given and prosecute the guilty itself. If it held a free, fair trial, open to all countries that lost citizens in the carnage, “I think India would live with it,” says Commodore Uday Bhaskar, of the Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses in Delhi.

It might have to. Britain, for one, is not prepared to push the point. According to a spokesman for Britain’s foreign office, the government is not opposed to extradition, but “neither do we see it as a necessary condition for justice to be done”.

America, for its part, needs Pakistan’s help in Afghanistan, where the superpower is still struggling with a resurgent Taliban. About three-quarters of the food, fuel and other provisions that supply American troops pass through Pakistan. General David Petraeus, head of America’s Central Command, says that Russia and its Central Asian neighbours will provide other routes. But these will not be instantly available or free of political cost. Russia, in particular, may “demand that the United States acknowledge a Russian sphere of influence in the former Soviet Union,” says Stratfor, a consultancy based in Texas.

Aspiring great powers never “outsource security”, laments Bharat Karnad of Delhi’s Centre for Policy Research in Mint, an Indian newspaper. He thinks India squandered the chance for a swift military reprisal. If it is hit by terrorism again, it may yet unsheathe some of the weaponry it will display on Republic Day. But a military strike carries non-military risks. It will rally Pakistan behind its army, bolster the country’s extremists and undermine its democratic government. On January 21st Indian army boffins admitted that the latest BrahMos test had suffered a hitch: the missile missed its intended target. An attack on Pakistan could easily do the same.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby SaiK » 24 Jan 2009 22:09

FBI has a super computing power to analyze online eavesdropping and perhaps a stealthy mid course spoofing to collect important data from VoIP, IP, voice, etc.. and zero on the activities.. but unfortunate is that many a times, they fail to engage the right target as what they look for (idioms and language) is not what the terrorist communicate.

our raw lings should come up with a better solution, since our setup is more manageable currently, and can introduce such security gateways to give constant inputs... that way our pandus are given a big hand and coordinates much before the events happen.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby sid_ashar » 25 Jan 2009 12:18

check this link out in the Dawn.. I couldnt believe it when I saw it but its hilarious.. this might not be the right topic for this post but could not resist..

http://www.dawn.com/2009/01/25/top2.htm

:rotfl:

would anyone take this seriously? another ploy after the whole war cloud thing not really working from the pukis point of view.

Nitesh
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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Nitesh » 25 Jan 2009 12:59

This will keep happening if this thread continues :evil: :evil:

Two suspected Pak terrorists shot dead in Noida

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby SSridhar » 25 Jan 2009 13:13

sid_ashar wrote:check this link out in the Dawn.. I couldnt believe it when I saw it but its hilarious.. this might not be the right topic for this post but could not resist..

http://www.dawn.com/2009/01/25/top2.htm


It is clearly an ISI creation. ISI doesn't cover its tracks anymore is obvious from
“If the threat is taken lightly, it is 200 per cent sure the envoy will be killed.”

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby RayC » 25 Jan 2009 14:04

RaviBg wrote:Germany unsure if LeT directly behind attacks

New Delhi: Even as it acknowledged that all information about the Mumbai Terror attacks pointed to the involvement of the Lashkar-e-Toiba, Germany on Thursday said it could not be conclusively ascertained as of now whether the Pakistan-based group was “directly” responsible for carrying out the incident. :?:

The comments were made by Joerg Ziercke, the head of Germany’s Federal Police, after detailed discussions with a range of Indian officials, including National Security Advisor M K Narayanan and Home Secretary Madhukar Gupta. “Based on the information coming out from the investigations, we can say that it is the LeT which is behind these attacks. But whether it was directly responsible, that is something that we are not completely sure of as yet,” Ziercke told reporters.

German Ambassador to India Bernd Mutzelberg said his country expected Pakistan to act swiftly on the evidence provided by India.

Ziercke’s trip follows last month’s visit by German Federal Minister for Interior Wolfgang Schauble who was invited by the Indian Government for discussions in the wake of the Mumbai attacks in which three Germans were also killed.

Ziercke also held meetings with heads of the Intelligence Bureau, the newly-constituted National Investigating Agency, Central Bureau of Investigation and the Narcotics Control Bureau. He shared Germany’s experience in fighting terrorism after the September 11, 2001 attacks in New York while the Indian side presented him fresh details of the investigations into the Mumbai incident.

The two sides agreed to step up cooperation on terror-related issues and ensure regular exchange of information between the investigating agencies of the two countries. An exchange programme for police officials was also proposed to be set up with the National Police Academy in Hyderabad.


Could this be because:

India protests submarine sale to Pak

12/29/2008 10:01:16 PM

In what comes as clearly a fallout of the Mumbai terror attacks, India has protested to Germany about its plans to sell submarines to Pakistan.

India has told Germany to call off the sale of 214 submarines manufactured by HDW to Pakistan over the next few years. The deal which is worth over one billion dollars is likely to be signed in the next few days.

India maintains that the sale would be a problem for India as it would definitely be used for conducting strikes against India.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2156190/posts

sum
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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby sum » 25 Jan 2009 14:20

From M.J.Akbar's article in ArabTimes posted in Pak thread:
It has become a laughing stock at security conferences. And it has allowed what could have been a diplomatic coup against Pakistan to become a diplomatic coup against India. This is incompetent governance, not just abysmal security.

:cry: :cry:

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby RajeshA » 25 Jan 2009 15:38

sum wrote:From M.J.Akbar's article in ArabTimes posted in Pak thread:
It has become a laughing stock at security conferences. And it has allowed what could have been a diplomatic coup against Pakistan to become a diplomatic coup against India. This is incompetent governance, not just abysmal security.

This was expected on BRF from day ONE.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Rahul M » 25 Jan 2009 15:49

NishantM wrote:Archan, Nash is my short name and 'M' is first letter of my last name so I request you to change the name back 'NashM'. I leave it upto you. You can delete this post once the changes are done.


nashm sounded suspiciously like nash 'em which was why it was changed.
changed to Nash_M.
regards,
Rahul.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Chinmayanand » 25 Jan 2009 17:52

Can anyone make a list of British and German companies in India?We need to boycott their products ?No more HLL products , no more vodafone simcards ...The citizens can atleast do an economic attack on these traitors who support terror against India....i would love to have the names of chicom companies as well...
Economic boycott is what atleast a citizen can do...
MNS can do a good job trashing out Audi,BMW,Merc and Volkswagen in Mumbai... :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby enqyoob » 25 Jan 2009 18:30

YES WE CAN! durgesh :mrgreen:

But isn't it more effective to list British and German (and Italian and Zimbabwean and Ukrainian and Polynesian and American) companies that sell arms and "dual use" items to Pakistan, and then boycott THEIR entities in India?

For instance, GOOGLE Arms Sales Pakistan, then do "computers Pakistan", "lasers Pakistan" etc. Actually, download the Dual Use Technologies list from the GOTUS websites, and use those to find those selling any of those items to terrorist Pakistan.

Go ahead, JUST DO IT! 8) , also start a thread on "Arms Peddlers to Pakistan". Big service, thanks.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Prabu » 25 Jan 2009 19:19

Security experts seek one-man command

This is pretty good way to manage crisis !


" ....................
Chiefs worried

Some of the former chiefs of armed forces expressed worry over non-implementation of security recommendations made in the aftermath of Kargil conflict..................."
:

And sad to note this Even after 10 years !! :roll:

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby NRao » 25 Jan 2009 19:28

Instead of boycotting any foreign company why not start Indian companies that compete with them?

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby RajeshA » 25 Jan 2009 19:32

NRao wrote:Instead of boycotting any foreign company why not start Indian companies that compete with them?


Yeah, my garage is big enough for a submarine. :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Chandragupta » 25 Jan 2009 19:36

RajeshA wrote:
NRao wrote:Instead of boycotting any foreign company why not start Indian companies that compete with them?


Yeah, my garage is big enough for a submarine. :mrgreen:


Rent my bathtub for under water trials. :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Prabu » 25 Jan 2009 19:40


Prabu
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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Prabu » 25 Jan 2009 19:47

Chandragupta wrote:[quote="RajeshA

Yeah, my garage is big enough for a submarine.


Rent my bathtub for under water trials. [/quote]

I think what Nrao ji, is telling is in our national interests ! Its just a broad message !

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Chinmayanand » 25 Jan 2009 20:00

NRao wrote:Instead of boycotting any foreign company why not start Indian companies that compete with them?

We already have companies competing with them , for instance, instead of using colgate,pepsodent buy meshvak, replace your dell/ibm/sony/acer/compaq/hp comps with HCL or Sahara, instead of craving for a prado or captiva, buy a a scorpio or a safari, instead of buying lg,samsung,philips buy a videocon or onida or t-series( not sure if onida is Indian),
we do have choice , now we just need to make it....be Indian , buy Indian !!! that's the only way to strengthen the Indian companies and as their profits start roaring , they will become better and deliver better products , with extra cash they will expand and venture in other areas as well....
It all comes down to choosing between a Tata Indigo and a Ford Fiesta .... we have to give up our fancy for everything phoren if there is a "Made in&by India" available ...

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby sum » 25 Jan 2009 20:17

So, on the two month "anniversary" of the Mumbai carnage, we seem to be back at suare one with even the GoI slowly loosening the heat and settling down to host the next big chai-biskoot.

Culd this be a lull before the may general election storm and the Kangress is merely giving Pak the long rope to hang themselves with some small amount of Diwali scheduled just before the elections to help the UPA take full advantage of the"tough posture"?
I would assume that the UPA will loose if the current status quo continues into the elections.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby enqyoob » 25 Jan 2009 20:23

Instead of boycotting any foreign company why not start Indian companies that compete with them?

This is why I come on BRF - to see these gems of practical Action-Oriented wisdom. :mrgreen: The sheer dynamism of the postors is so infectious!

(Gotta go now - I have to start a company making jet fighters. Sale on Green Paint at Home Depot today!)

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby enqyoob » 25 Jan 2009 20:28

lull before the may general election storm and the Kangress is merely giving Pak the long rope


Maybe 2 days b4 election the GOI will make an even louder ****ing noise threatening VELY VELY GLAVE CONSEQUENCES. When the Pakis say "BOO!" most of the voters in Dill and Mumbai and most who can read and write will be hiding in the gutters on Election day, so that Yuvraj and Pumpkin can become the rulers of India.

The BJP voters will be too busy giving advice to everyone else on how THEY should go an defeat Pakistan, to actually go out from their gutters and vote.

Brilliant strategy, one has to admit.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby sum » 25 Jan 2009 21:19

N^3 saar,
Sadly what you say might/will jsut come true.
IMO, the Delhi and Raj victories for the INC were a deathblow to any possible offensive action against Pak(other than the "verbal barrage") which the GoI was planning. The moment the press started tom-toming that terror is not a issue after the election results, the INC decided that there is no point continuing what they were never in actual favour of( tough action against Pak).

Wonder how the course of action wold have been if INC was routed in Delhi and Rajasthan?

Meanwhile, our prez delivers this spine-chilling message in her R-day speech:

In a rejection of Pakistan's contention that independent actors were behind the Mumbai attack, President Pratibha Patil today said such arguments cannot be accepted as she asked the international community to take "decisive" action to fight terrorism.

:rotfl:
Don't we have any self respect left?
We have the fourth largest standing military and we beg /plead for the international community to act for us? :-?


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