Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Feb 2010 01:22

Sanku, We have enough sarcasm from usual suspects. So please don't add to it. Time to think what can be done.

IM could be a joint project. Its the non-state actors located inside India.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 15 Feb 2010 01:46

Apologies for the sarcasm.

My mind is numb, I feel strange today, after Mumbai V I was angry -- and hopeful that at least this will cause a shift in Indian thinking -- this time there is no hope, no rage and no forelorness.

There is a sense of emptiness this time -- of simply no emotion, just "oh ah again? Where's my toast and tea any way" sort of thing.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 15 Feb 2010 02:11

ok - a large scale scrutiny, investigations and news plants have started.

Pune blast: RDX usage points towards Pakistan

Traces of RDX were found in the bomb that was used in the Pune blast, a fact confirmed by the investigating agencies. It is a well-known fact that everytime RDX is used in a blast, the finger automatically points to Pakistan.

Intelligence Bureau officials say that all terror groups in India source RDX only from Pakistan, since terror groups over there have set up units where RDX is produced.

The Lashkar-e-Tayiba over the years has set up several units of its own, known as 'terror factories.' The RDX unit is one among the several units that has been set up by the Lashkar in their several camps at Murdike and Manshera.

Sources say that RDX is used for blasts of a larger magnitude. Security agencies point out that even when India-based outfits use RDX for blasts, it is always sourced from Pakistan, since it is not possible for them to manufacture it locally.

The fact that RDX was used in the Pune blast is a clear indication that the substance was sourced from Pakistan and stored at one of the modules in Pune before it was used in the German bakery.

The investigating agencies now have an additional headache, since they are presently trying to find out whether there were more consignments of RDX that were brought alongwith the one that was used in the Pune blast.

IB sources say that RDX is smuggled into India months before a terror strike is carried out. The most common method that was being used at first was to send it in through the terrorists, who used to infiltrate into the country.

However over the years, infiltration has become increasingly difficult. As a result, now the terror groups in Pakistan feel that they should stock up more RDX with their Indian modules.

Hence, off late they have been pumping in RDX in larger quantities and have used the cement export as a route. There have been a couple of instances to show that Pakistan-based groups have sent in RDX alongwith a cement consignment into north India, which was later picked up the Indian modules.

The IB says that these groups are constantly innovating and finding newer techniques to send in RDX in bulk into the country.

Apart from sending in RDX through a cement consignment, it is always a rule that any militant who manages to infiltrate into the country will have to carry more RDX that what is required for the blast he is planning.

Before he goes about his mission, he always drops off some quantity at a designated spot, so that one of the cadres would pick up the same and use it for the next attack.

The IB points out that there have been no instances to show that RDX is being produced in India, since it is extremely difficult to set up a plant of this nature unless the government or the machinery is hand in glove with this.

But in Pakistan the situation is different and terror groups openly produce or procure RDX and pump it into India.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 15 Feb 2010 02:43

Terror and talks cannot coexist, says BJP
http://www.hindu.com/2010/02/15/stories ... 181000.htm

I think this is a kind of test case by Terror groups. It is essential to keep all the options open including striking the terror outfits in Pakistan. While talking with them I think we need to talk closely in a way to help them to identity two things separately. There are people who cause destruction of life and property for both nations. If both share their intelligence it would also be good. Also both can have joint operations. If Pakistan is not collaborating with this, India has to go on her own way with her own intelligence and with sharpness pinpoint attack on terror outfit groups in Pakistan then it will become clear for Pakistan that they cannot entertain any terror outfits knowingly or unknowingly and with or without the help of outside countries too!

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 15 Feb 2010 02:54

unless a bigwig gets killed nothing will happen

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 Feb 2010 03:51

Maharashtra police obtain CCTV footage of Pune blast site

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Feb 2010 04:06

US had warned of attacks in Pune and Mumbai

Looks like Sri Gates personally warned the GOI during is recent visit. I thin if even Obama tells them it will sill be chalta hain! The usual excuse is not actionable intelligence. No one said to check your brain outside once you join the intel agency right?

Atleast the areas recced by Headley should have been under watch.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 15 Feb 2010 05:13

Don't want to add CTs but is it possible that there was a specific target for this attack?
Reason am asking was
- Small scale compared to other mega attacks we have had
- Specific location (with foreigners & Chabad house)

Has anyone explored this angle

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 15 Feb 2010 05:44

One reason of its timing could also be presenting India as unsafe sporting and tourist destination and hurting its economy. Internal rats should be hunted down mercilessly and thrown in Indian ocean to sharks. The current whole breed of intelligence setup is a disaster. We need to get trained with Mossad and learn to prevent attacks. British intelligence has prevented atleast 27 attacks after 7/11. If they can do it, why cant we even a single attack ! Preventing attacks will increase the morale of people in its security setup. If they fail, it will severely affect the country's will and ability to prevent anything in future. It may also prove one of the fatal cut in Thousand cut theory...

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 15 Feb 2010 05:46

Jarita wrote:Don't want to add CTs but is it possible that there was a specific target for this attack?
Reason am asking was
- Small scale compared to other mega attacks we have had
- Specific location (with foreigners & Chabad house)

Has anyone explored this angle

The Target is "Talks with Pakistan". Someone wanted to stop the talks with pakistan and hence went with this colateral damage. Who did this is the question? The answer is also very simple. The Terrorists.
Who are they:
(1) Global jihadi pigs ( Worldwide LeT or LeT from Pak) independent of Pak handlers (ISI, TSPA etc.
(2) Pak ISI and armed forces either using LeT and IM
(3) Pure and simple IM

For all the above there may be definitely some local poor brainwashed and facilitating handlers ( either by ideology or just for money).

For all the above three there will be someone powerful behind:
(1) As per the top spinners in the media - Pakistan's ISI and Army doesn't like this as their importance will go down. They refer to examples of ABV and Nawaz talks led to Kargil etc. Lablabla led to parliament etc. We have to be resolute and terror is killing both nations.
(2) The Terrorists did not like the talks and so to oppose ISI, Army and Pak politicos they pulled is on their own.
(3) Some elements inside Indian intel setup and also some set of folks in the GOI set up does not like the talks and they wanted to use the terror attack as a pretext to lobby for "stoppage of Talks". These guys have the knowhow and means to stop the attacks that are coming but they let it go. what it means is the hawks had put the doves in an akward situation by costing few Indian and foreign lives as colateral.

I don't want to take sides in these theories

. I just had written all possibilities. I will leave the bias to the reader.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 15 Feb 2010 06:13

Jarita wrote:Don't want to add CTs but is it possible that there was a specific target for this attack?
Reason am asking was
- Small scale compared to other mega attacks we have had
- Specific location (with foreigners & Chabad house)

Nothing too complex here for people to understand.

ISI/pigLeTs have been preparing forever but the immediate need for an attack was due to the surprise talks offer from India that caught TSPA off guard.

Small scale is likely because the order was given less than a few days before and this is the best they could do in short notice. Plus, they used local assets rather than the ones sent from TSP directly to maintain increased deniability.

Bombing the Chabad House and Osho ashram would have been higher risk because of the massive surveillance, so the bakery is a soft target that sends the same message.

As the days go by, we will likely see more complex attacks, multiple targets etc.

Given that GoI is likely guarding prominent centers more closely now, the unfortunate result is that we are likely to see attacks on nondescript bazaars, train stations, random buses etc. similar to the Khalistani terror campaign. With more time, we may see bomb blasts followed by gunfire etc. spread out over cities to create maximum chaos.

The more MMS caves in, the worse the attacks will be because TSPA needs an Indian military "action" to justify not going after its core assets under US pressure.

With our khusray in power, things are going to get much worse before they get better, sad to say.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 15 Feb 2010 06:18

Jarita wrote:Don't want to add CTs but is it possible that there was a specific target for this attack?
Reason am asking was
- Small scale compared to other mega attacks we have had
- Specific location (with foreigners & Chabad house)

Has anyone explored this angle

Oh definitely. Pune's Koregaon Park is analogous to the South Mumbai areas attacked on 26/11. An upscale neighbourhood with elite class inhabitants. The German Bakery was a site where many members of the Osho commune congregated, as well as locals who associated with them. A large proportion of Osho adherents are Westerners who probably contribute more tourist dollars to Pune's economy than any other source. So there is certainly an economic assault aspect to this strike as well.

On that note it would be the easiest thing in the world for a pigLET to pose as an Osho devotee and infiltrate the area for recce and even for the op itself. Oshoites often come from all over the world, are single solitary folks with diverse backgrounds that no one really bothers to ask questions about. They arrive, spend upto six months there and are gone again.

Sen_K · Post by **Sen_K** » 15 Feb 2010 06:30

List of victims:

Gokul Nepali---------------27-----Nepal------------German Bakery employee
Shankar Pansare-----------38-----Pune------------Rickshaw driver
Ankik Dhar-----------------24-----Kolkata----------IIT Alumnus / JP Morgan employee
Anindyee Dhar-------------19-----Kolkata----------Ankik's sister / Fergusson college student
Shilpa Goenka--------------23-----Kolkata---------Ankik's classmate / Nomura employee
Sundari P------------------22-----Hyderabad------BIT Mesra Alumnus / Amdocs employee
Binita Gadani---------------22-----Mumbai---------Amdocs employee
Saeid Kazem Abdolkhani----25-----Iran-------------Symbiosis college student
Nadia Macerini-------------37-----Italy------------Osho Commune visitor

RIP

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Feb 2010 06:34

BajKhedawal wrote:Shiv

I understand your point about continuing perennial terrorism inspite of best counter terrorism mechanism potentially put in place. However a sever kick in the paki nuts is in order for a population of billion+ to stop wringing their hands in a perceived and thus a (mis)-sense of despair. It will restore some self esteem and give direction (set precedence) to counter bigger threats in the neighborhood.

Not "my" point - but what I believe is the GoI's version of "reasoning". I think Pakistan should be given a kick in the pants. I can argue logically and show you how the idea of giving Pakistan a kick in the pants is illogical and counterproductive.

But is courage logical? Was it logical to fight Pakistan when the US was firmly on Pakistan's side in 1971. Is it logical to fight at all. Doesn't logic dictate that is one person is aggressive and the other is not the other should cock up and give in?

Indians, and the GoI spends too much time thinking. Pakistan should jut get accustomed to getting hit every time there is an attack in India. I have said this (as others have done) countless times before in the emotional period after a terror attack. But nothing and we have to endure the sight of Pakis on ou TV and be told that we must make peace with the ********.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Feb 2010 07:05

A_Gupta wrote:
So, e.g., a thousand military casualties in a limited action war will not save a thousand-plus civilians from future attacks, and so the expenditure is deemed futile?

This I believe may be the GoI logic. We are losing only a couple of thousand people or so per year and the cost of war is too high.

Let me also state one more thought I have had. It is a Macaulayite cognitive bias that we all carry with us that make us think in the following way:

"I love and value my father/brother/son's life over anything else, so I must learn to respect and protect the lives of other people's father/brother's/sons" This may be true to an extent in Western societies, but it is definitely not true in India. In India human life is not "invaluable" or "incalculable value". To Indians human lives are expendable. We have too many of them and as long as we and our dear ones are not touched the lives of other being lost at some threshold rate is acceptable if the monetary or political cost of stopping that is too high.

Too many Indians (and therefore too many Indian elected "leaders") have a complex vision of the value of a human life. Some Indian lives are definitely considered not worth defending by Indians. It is our mistake to assume that the life of an Indian in India is the same as that of an American in the US. If I dig more into this topic it becomes the India psyche thread but it should be quite possible to be honest with ourselves about how much we value lives and how "optimistic" we are about life taking care of itself by Indian attitudes towards say drunken driving or the wearing of helmets by scooter riders. Think if you wear a helmet when you ride your scooter and ask what happens in say the US or Western Europe.

My own thoughts frighten me because it is possible for Indians to get careless enough to be callous - and that could really explain why we have allowed all and sundry to come and sit and rule over us. We just don't give a sh1t about other's lives as long as we can somehow spare ourselves.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 15 Feb 2010 07:27

Rangudu wrote:
With our khusray in power, things are going to get much worse before they get better, sad to say.

Once they start getting worse & worse, is there any chance of getting better? And what does better mean? Are we seeing a kind of end game or steps up the escalatory ladder?

Had a bunch of very highly educated folks, my ex IIT colleauges, for lunch. The conversation of course was TSP. And to the man, the universal opinion was that TSP is itself not control of terrorists as it is getting attacked everyday, so how can they control terrorists as they are attacking both India and TSP. India also has its share of Shiv Sena terrorists going after "poor" Sharukh Khan. People on both sides are suffering because of such terrorists. The rot and disease has spread among Indian populace more than we think. I tried disabsuing them as much as I could, but if it has metastsized to this extent, what can save India?

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 15 Feb 2010 07:40

Just curious but how come there are so many Chabad houses in India, especially given the seemingly small population of jews? Does anyone have an estimate?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Feb 2010 07:53

Jarita wrote:Just curious but how come there are so many Chabad houses in India, especially given the seemingly small population of jews? Does anyone have an estimate?

How many have you heard of?

I have heard of exactly 2. One in Mumbai and one in Pune. Is that too many? Or "so many"?

I think it would be wrong to list them publicly here. If you know of more, please state the number and leave it at that. I do not want to know where they are.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 15 Feb 2010 07:56

Chabad-Lubavitch is a Hasidic movement in Orthodox Judaism.

The name "Chabad" (Hebrew: חב"ד) is an acronym for Chochmah, Binah, Da'at (חכמה, בינה, דעת): "Wisdom, Understanding, and Knowledge."

Chabad maintain institutions in around 950 cities around the world providing outreach and educational activities for Jews through Jewish community centers, synagogues, schools and camps.

There are 15,405 Jews in India.

(Source: Wikipedia)

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 15 Feb 2010 08:02

bronze wrote:List of victims:

Gokul Nepali---------------27-----Nepal------------German Bakery employee

Shankar Pansare-----------38-----Pune------------Rickshaw driver

Ankik Dhar-----------------24-----Kolkata----------IIT Alumnus / JP Morgan employee

Anindyee Dhar-------------19-----Kolkata----------Ankik's sister / Fergusson college student

Shilpa Goenka--------------23-----Kolkata---------Ankik's classmate / Nomura employee

Sundari P------------------22-----Hyderabad------BIT Mesra Alumnus / Amdocs employee

Binita Gadani---------------22-----Mumbai---------Amdocs employee

Saeid Kazem Abdolkhani----25-----Iran-------------Symbiosis college student

Nadia Macerini-------------37-----Italy------------Osho Commune visitor
RIP

Bronze and Avinash R, thank you for posting this information. Folks, please remember them and resolve to get our retribution.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 15 Feb 2010 08:06

Responding to Pune

India needs a holistic, well-crafted response that balances its short-term, mid-term and long-term goals vis-à-vis Pakistan.

The jehadis have struck again on the Indian mainland; this time in Pune, albeit more than a year after the horrendous terror attacks on Mumbai in November 2008. The initial response, while going with the most plausible and popular assumption that the blast was the handiwork of Pakistan based jehadi groups, is one of indignation. Perhaps understandably so as tempers are bound to run high. And this emotion is likely to be further amplified as the Indian mainstream media hyperventilates and virtually runs amok with its over the top coverage of the incident.

On the other end of the spectrum is the rather logical sounding response that India should unequivocally reaffirm its commitment to continue peace talks with Pakistan, as the sole aim of the perpetrators of this blast is to disrupt these peace talks. This response would appeal to both realists and peaceniks alike.

So what is the correct response — surgical strikes against Pakistan or talks with Pakistan come what may? The response, in the end, has to come from the government of India and it will not be easy for them to articulate one. One way of framing the desired response is by breaking it down into Indian goals in a short-term, mid-term and long-term framework.

The short-term goal of the Indian government is to assuage the hurt feelings of Indians and protect them from any terror attacks in the future. It has to also somehow convey to Pakistan that India is not willing to be pummelled by non-state actors sponsored by sections of the Pakistani establishment. But how does it do that? Indian government has not been able to figure it out for the last 25 years when the country has been prone to such terror attacks. One of the simplest ways of conveying a message across the border is to emulate the deeds of Mossad in the UAE. Surely, it is not too much to ask of the Indian state.

In the mid-term, there is no option for India but to talk to Pakistan. This will deny Pakistan the excuse that Indian intransigence is preventing it from meeting the US goals in the region. Pakistan assumes great importance in the current US war plans which can be aptly described to be based on the hammer and anvil theory. As the US military offensive in Afghanistan moves southwards from Marja, Pakistan military will have to hold the jehadis from its side of the Durand Line. It is in India’s interest that the US strategy succeeds. India has to also continue to talk to Pakistan so that the idea that the complete region, India-Af-Pak is one single theatre, doesn’t gain ground and become accepted wisdom the world over.

When it comes to Indian long-term goals vis-à-vis Pakistan, it is a long story. To put it in a nutshell, Pakistan needs a Macarthur. Period.

If you look at the debate on the subject in this country, most of it is unbalanced and focused on only one of the above goals. This focus on only one of the goals, while completely ignoring the others, is detrimental to the national interest. However, it must be conceded that there are inherent conflicts between the three goals and balancing them simultaneously is a very tricky proposition. It presents a real challenge which the policy makers in the government of India must confront and overcome.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 15 Feb 2010 08:06

There are 12 Chabad Centres in India (though the link does not mention the one at Mumbai (wonder why?).

Rabbi Yisreal Nasrati runs the chabad house in the Andaman Island.

Uri Tzipori run the new chabad house in Bagsu.

Rabbi Shmuel Sharfik and Rabbi Shneor kupchik run the chabad house in Delhi.

Rabbi Dror Moshe Shaul runs the chabad house in Dharamkot.

Rabbi Tomer Gordo run the new chabad house in Kasar Devi.

Rabbi Dani Weinderbaum and Rabbi Yoel Kaplin run the chabad house in Kasol.

Rabbi Alter Betzadel Kupchik runs the chabad house in Pune.

Rabbi Shimshon Goldstein runs the new chabad house in Pushkar.

Rabbi Zohar David and Rabbi Moty Grumach runthe chabad house in Rishikesh.

Rabbi Samuel Izar runs the new chabad house in Varanasi.

Rabbi Ran Shamir and Rabbi Ariel Luzon run the chabad house in Vata Kanal.

Chabad in India

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Feb 2010 08:10

CRamS wrote: Once they start getting worse & worse, is there any chance of getting better? And what does better mean? Are we seeing a kind of end game or steps up the escalatory ladder?

Had a bunch of very highly educated folks, my ex IIT colleauges, for lunch. The conversation of course was TSP. And to the man, the universal opinion was that TSP is itself not control of terrorists as it is getting attacked everyday, so how can they control terrorists as they are attacking both India and TSP. India also has its share of Shiv Sena terrorists going after "poor" Sharukh Khan. People on both sides are suffering because of such terrorists. The rot and disease has spread among Indian populace more than we think. I tried disabsuing them as much as I could, but if it has metastsized to this extent, what can save India?

How much easier would it be to control terrorism from Pakistan if we had no Shiv Sena, no padre burning Bajrang Dal and no Ayodhya? The only effect that such a hypothetical situation would have is absence of argument and people agreeing that Pakistan is a problem, Whether India has the Shiv Sena or not, Pakistan is a problem.

Solving the problem posed by the Shiv Sena is not going to stop terrorism from Pakistan, which is going to require a separate solution or bunch of solutions distinct from actions required wrt to the Shiv Sena in India.

Your group of "highly educated ex IIT" folks have displayed the most rudimentary cognitive bias and fallen for a stupid logical fallacy and have used the age old "torn-shirt-open-fly" on you and have successfully tripped up your argument.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 15 Feb 2010 08:28

^^ Thanks RayC

All these Chabad houses are in tourist destinations where Israeli students go

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 15 Feb 2010 08:44

As others had pointed out in the Indo-Pak thread a week ago, did the GOI feel the threat of a terrorist attack was "imminent" and hence offered to re-start the FS level talks a couple of weeks ago while there was still a window of opportunity?

Making that same offer today wouldnt be possible- would it? Who says our intelligence is not "actionable"?

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 15 Feb 2010 08:54

Just providing you with some ammo for the next time around. IMO such arguments are possible only because the education system promotes rote learning in place of critical thinking. Unfortunately, this means the more educated an Indian is, the more likely he is to buy into this line of thinking.

CRamS wrote:Had a bunch of very highly educated folks, my ex IIT colleauges, for lunch. The conversation of course was TSP. And to the man, the universal opinion was that TSP is itself not control of terrorists as it is getting attacked everyday, so how can they control terrorists as they are attacking both India and TSP.

Okay, let's accept this is true. What then is the purpose of talking to the Pakistanis? Are they going to let us send in the Army or Air Force to take care of the terrorists? If not, why not - the terrorists are supposed to be their enemies too, no?

CRamS wrote:India also has its share of Shiv Sena terrorists going after "poor" Sharukh Khan. People on both sides are suffering because of such terrorists.

The Shiv Sena are elected terrorists similar to other elected terrorists like the Congress (remember 1984?)

. Are you claiming that the terrorists in Pakistan have been elected by their people? What then makes you say they are not part of the Pakistani state?

negi · Post by **negi** » 15 Feb 2010 09:02

The problem is when one starts using terms casually and liberally to refer to acts of violence it becomes difficult to pin point the problem and most of the discussion is reduced to countering 'equal equal' BS. SS needs to be reigned in and need to be shown their place in a democracy however it is naive and imho sheer ignorance (unless they are Bdutt and SGhose types) on part of an individual to compare terrorists killing innocents with the SS.

Abhi_G · Post by **Abhi_G** » 15 Feb 2010 09:03

Does this make sense?

1. GoI takes a strong stance after a dastardly massacre of Indian civilians.

2. pak wants GoI to take a logical conclusion to the strong stance, i.e., to start a war, so that it can complain to amirkhan about its helplessness w.r.t helping amirkhan clear the ground of taliban. Since taliban == isi == pak army == pak, any action against any one of these entities is a blow to pak itself.

3. amirkhan's pressure leads GoI to soften stance.

4. pak strikes again since GoI is not attacking it.

5. situation goes back to step 1.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: In absence of amirkhan in af-pak, it is a field day for pak army. The strategic depth is re-achieved. The faithful has defeated two superpowers in 30 years. And therefore, a resurgence of jihad in India. It seems amirkhan existing (current) or non-existing (pre 911) does not deter pak army's aim of jihadi operations against India.

Sen_K · Post by **Sen_K** » 15 Feb 2010 09:05

RayC wrote:There are 12 Chabad Centres in India (though the link does not mention the one at Mumbai (wonder why?).

Seems the Chabad house in Mumbai is more of a memorial, still with it's bullet ridden walls.

Link

Chabad has moved to a secret location in the city to protect its security.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 15 Feb 2010 09:07

shiv wrote:
Your group of "highly educated ex IIT" folks have displayed the most rudimentary cognitive bias and fallen for a stupid logical fallacy and have used the age old "torn-shirt-open-fly" on you and have successfully tripped up your argument.

I can bet you, based on my non scientific poll, of the NRIs, educated or not, who pay attention toTSP-sponsored terror, I would say, roughly 8 0ut of 10 think this way. I would assume the # is the same in India. The other 2 are "Hindu extremists" or "BJP wallah" or "right wing" or whatever.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 15 Feb 2010 09:13

^ Clearly these folks look like they accept WKK arguments as some kind of gospel truth .... as if it is Pythagoras theorem.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 15 Feb 2010 09:14

Should we discuss non-scientific polls?

skaranam · Post by **skaranam** » 15 Feb 2010 09:15

After blast, congratulatory calls to PoK

Hours after the Pune blast, agencies also picked up some calls to PoK with congratulatory messages, said sources, adding that these coincided with Jamaat-ud-Dawa deputy chief Rehman Makki’s warning at a rally in Islamabad on February 5 that earlier jihadis were interested only in Kashmir but the water issue had ensured “Delhi, Pune and Kanpur” were fair targets.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 15 Feb 2010 09:21

CRamS wrote:I can bet you, based on my non scientific poll, of the NRIs, educated or not, who pay attention toTSP-sponsored terror, I would say, roughly 8 0ut of 10 think this way. I would assume the # is the same in India. The other 2 are "Hindu extremists" or "BJP wallah" or "right wing" or whatever.

With all due respect CRS, this is bullshit.

I too am in similar circles and a majority of people I meet are 180 degrees off from what you say there.

As Ramana says, we need Cassandras as well as Polyannas, but we also need enough people who can be between the two extremes of perception.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 15 Feb 2010 09:24

kanchan gupta on twitter.

I have bought an altar candle, huge and fat. Anybody calls for a candlelight vigil/march gets it you know where.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Feb 2010 09:39

Abhi_G wrote:Does this make sense?

1. GoI takes a strong stance after a dastardly massacre of Indian civilians.

2. pak wants GoI to take a logical conclusion to the strong stance, i.e., to start a war, so that it can complain to amirkhan about its helplessness w.r.t helping amirkhan clear the ground of taliban. Since taliban == isi == pak army == pak, any action against any one of these entities is a blow to pak itself.

3. amirkhan's pressure leads GoI to soften stance.

4. pak strikes again since GoI is not attacking it.

5. situation goes back to step 1.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: In absence of amirkhan in af-pak, it is a field day for pak army. The strategic depth is re-achieved. The faithful has defeated two superpowers in 30 years. And therefore, a resurgence of jihad in India. It seems amirkhan existing (current) or non-existing (pre 911) does not deter pak army's aim of jihadi operations against India.

It makes perfect sense for any self respecting American and Pakistani patriot. We are doing their work for them.

Amirkhan is making Pak army do the work of fighting jihadis that Amirkhan should be doing. Pak army is making jihadis do the work that Pak army is supposed to do - i.e hit India.

By not attacking Pak army India is helping the US and the Pak army.

India should just say "balls" and hit Pakistan and worry about "international consequences" later. Over the years we have come to curse ABV as a dhoti clad ineffective head of GoI. But the fact is he at least had the guts to conduct PoK 2 which required the courage to face international consequences.

By saying that MMS is an economist and therefore does not think like a leader we are subscribing to a caste system which makes your traits equal to your vocation. By that standard a woman who spends her life cooking for her family will not protect her kids because she is a cook at heart, not a soldier. ABV was a poet at heart and should have written poetry and not made bold political moves.

The Congress government is unable to make the bold political move required to hit Pakistan and cause pain and be ready to feel some pain in return.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 15 Feb 2010 09:41

pgbhat wrote:kanchan gupta on twitter.
I have bought an altar candle, huge and fat. Anybody calls for a candlelight vigil/march gets it you know where.

seriously, there will be a day when India will set a process ( like CMMI- Level 5 ) about what to do after a Terror strike.
1) size of the candle and the amount of perfume
2) where to buy
3) What time to start
4) What kind of people
5) How the media should behave during the candle program
6) How to show that the XXXXX City's strenght and SPIRIT is not dead.

on and on.
At the government level. When to start the talks so that to create room for stopping them. What shoud the quantum of death or size of the blast to stop the talks. If the crater is 20 inches then stop. If they have more than three gellatin sticks then stop talks and if they used exactly three only then it is borderline and there needs a Security affairs meeting to take a decision of talks stop/continue.

All these have to be listed and a process document needs to be wrtten and audited by the process implementation org. Later blasts will give a room to improve to and a further audit will give a higer certification.

I am sure we are getting there.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 15 Feb 2010 09:44

Pune terror attack: CCTV could hold key

Karna_A · Post by **Karna_A** » 15 Feb 2010 10:21

shiv wrote:
Indians, and the GoI spends too much time thinking. Pakistan should jut get accustomed to getting hit every time there is an attack in India. I have said this (as others have done) countless times before in the emotional period after a terror attack. But nothing and we have to endure the sight of Pakis on ou TV and be told that we must make peace with the ********.

One thing that needs to be done is to try all captured TSP terrorists as spies and execute 10 times as many die in any attack.
What's the use of keeping them in jails like OSheikh and MAzhar. There should be a military trial and a firing squad.
Operation Pastorius is a precedent of how it should take place if foreign terrorists attack economic targets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Pastorius

vasu_ray · Post by **vasu_ray** » 15 Feb 2010 11:15

+1
good idea Karna! since judicial process doesn't allow it, (NOT a fan of current judicial setup either), transport these scum in a nice vehicle and blow it up with exact same recovered RDX

kinda tired of our chanakian inaction or the inefficient five year plans to deal with development or terror