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Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

chandrabhan
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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby chandrabhan » 21 Feb 2010 10:37

Rudradev wrote:http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... rism-hs-01

More worrisome ((than Islamic terrrorists) are the Hindu extremists rearing their head. The murder of police officer Hemant Karkare, who was probing the Malegaon blasts, was the doing of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad or Bajrang Dal. Such..........secular ethos.

This is what is called Stockholm syndrome.


I believe it's much worse than Stockholm syndrome. It's a calculated step.

Not only is the MMS regime forging ahead with peace talks and avoiding punitive measures even while Indians are dying in Pakistani terrorist attacks-- but the MMS regime is further taking advantage of these terrorist attacks to build political capital for itself. It responds to terrorist attacks by slandering its domestic political opposition-- making baseless, blue-sky allegations via its media mouthpieces.

Whenever a bomb goes off, from now on, you will see the MMS regime (1) keep the "peace process" going, to the benefit of foreign interests and (2) imply by proxy that the attack may have been carried out by some "Hindootva terrorist group", so that the entire Sangh (including the BJP) appear plausibly responsible.

Short step from here to outright political persecution, using as a pretext the deaths of Indian citizens killed thanks to the MMS regime's own pusillanimity.

As I said, India was an inexpensive country under previous governments, but it sure is a Free country now![/quote][/quote]



Rudradev Sir,
Every-time i speak on this forum against MMS and kangress Dhimmitude, people take offense. However, MMS is more desperate for glory and Nobel prize than anybody else, except for may be IKG. This guy has no great thought provoking economic theory to his achievement( rare for someone deemed a great economist), no political base(for a primeminister) and can not win any election( i am sure village pradhan), almost stole the thunder from Yashwant sinha's proposed budget for 1991( Chandra shekhar govt fell) and never gave credit to yashwant sinha.

Since he is not elected rather selected, may be he feels that..
    He is not answerable to the electorate
    More desperate to prove himself
    has no power base in Kangress so regularly throws these hobby horses to satisfy his ego of being the boss and tell others to back off
    having served the western interests through World bank , Adb for long he is their man

I for one never had even an iota of respect for him as an intellectual or as a political leader. I hate these ego maniacs who wear their honesty card on sleeve to score a point.

Anyway, I have no hope from the 'Yuvraj' too. I remeber seeing him at school for few months before he quit and went abroad. I found him utterly dumb and shy. That was my impression of him and I refused his offer of ticket in exchange of working for UP Kangress revival with him.

I hate Kangress in anycase against my family links, adds to the long list of my rant.

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby Chandragupta » 21 Feb 2010 12:04


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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby CRamS » 21 Feb 2010 12:52



Another cheap imitation of the west. Candle light vigil, my foot. ISI must be having a party and a big laugh seeing such impotence from India.

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby Nayak » 21 Feb 2010 14:06

What a bunch of idiots, just to get a five second slot on NDTV/CNN-IBN, of holding hands of hijdas these mofos take out a candle light vigil. Piss march indeed. I cry for the youth of tomorrow, must be all those skinny low waist jeans blocking the blood flow to the brain.

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby Sanku » 21 Feb 2010 16:41

shiv wrote:The Indian middle class are the closest to the ideal bogey created in colonial times who expects that the policeman should be a law abiding, law enforcing respectable citizen.


:lol:
Shiv, funnily enough, despite your definition and re-redefinition of different Indian groups; pretty much almost every one understands and agrees on what Middle class in India is and what elite is.

Just as you claim that BRFites are plain vanilla elites, I can claim that BRFites are upper side of middle -- just as many of us have links to Page 3, NSG protected types, we also have family links to Bicycle pulling village uncles.

Indian middle class is a large continuum, and trying to establish WESTERN blinkers on it does not do justice.

I think what is silly is actually not be in line with typically what India is and try and imagine new categories when data does not fit expectations.

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby derkonig » 21 Feb 2010 17:18


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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby mmasand » 21 Feb 2010 17:29

Pune cops goof-up: Got blast site washed



Crucial evidence in the Pune blast case may have been lost as the Pune police, initially assuming it to be an LPG explosion, called in the fire brigade and asked it to wash the site clean to prevent further damage.

Immediately after the explosion at German Bakery at 6.52 pm on February 13, the police summoned the fire brigade, saying there had been a cylinder blast and the place needed cleaning up. Within minutes, six fire tenders reached the spot.

The police realised it was a terror attack more than an hour-and-a-half later, after experts of the Army’s Southern Command who examined the site confirmed a bomb had

gone off. By then, the floor was flooded with water, and key evidence washed away, forensic experts said.

The site was not even cordoned off till late in the night.

“We have failed to get anything significant from the spot,” one of the experts who examined the site said.

Teams belonging to the Central Forensic Science Laboratory and the National Security Guards’ National Bomb Data Centre, and a squad of the state’s forensic and anti-terrorism experts, have in the past week struggled to get clues from the site.

Pieces of the timer device, the casing used to stuff explosives and parts of other components of the bomb can be recovered from a blast site and help in investigations.

However, in this case, most leads into the make of the bomb and the use of ammonium nitrate, fuel oil and RDX were obtained from shrapnels found on victims’ bodies, another expert said.

Gajanan Pathrudkar, station fire officer at Kothrud fire station said, “The call from the police said it was an LPG explosion. From the destruction caused, we gathered that was not the case, but there was fire outside [the bakery] that we had to put out. We also had to prevent further damage.”

Ramesh Gangad, chief station officer at Yerawada fire station and one of the first to reach the spot, said: “It was more than a cylinder blast. The police should have been able to figure it out and avoid damage.”

Pune police commissioner Satyapal Singh refused to comment.


Don't know how to react!

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby brihaspati » 21 Feb 2010 17:49

What is the point in this nitpicking about those killed, maimed, burnt, injured, scarred wre elite, middle-class, upper-lower, 0.9*elite or 0.55 in a 0-1 scale of elitism? This is Marxist BS! For analytical ease of the macro political and economic setup, we sometimes do use the term elite and non-elite. But there is a context for that analysis and terminology! Why extends it blindly to all aspects of Indian life? Why repeat the blunder the Marxists themselves made and have faced consequences of when they tried to define "class"? There is no strict boundary of class. It depends on your particualr context and viewpoint.

They were Indians and some guests of India killed. When it is killing by terror motivated by religious faiths, or religious faith used by rashtras to justify terror to justify religious faith, bringing in issues of class is blindness and divisive. People are so concerned here sometimes about "divisive ideologies" - where are those voices now who cannot recognize where real divisive mentalities express themselves? Is "divisive ideology" recognized only when it identifies the source of terror as a particular aspect of core beliefs of certain faiths, and not when we spend pages on trying to assign victims of a blast to hyperfine subdivisions of imaginary classes?

Shame on you if you cannot identify yourself with the victims as belonging to one whole.

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby chandrabhan » 21 Feb 2010 17:57



When did he loose sleep just for my knowledge? This is acceptable attrition. I have repeated time and again that mango Indians have to force the political and bureaucrat class to make foreign policy as transparent as possible. Government runs on a mandate by the people, it is answerable and must be forced to do so.

I don't see a day far away when people will take to violent means to force the GOI to listen and do their job and that would be sad. actually it is already happening. However much i hate the Naxal ideology, sometimes i wonder if it is the only way for these deaf and dumbs to make them listen.

after loosing 100000 lives in kashmir, who is this government representing when they talk about joint control and other stuff. who are these people whose support goi claims? Indians are dying in these blasts and what we hear.. "Look at the number of road deaths a day", "Dowry death"

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby Tanaji » 21 Feb 2010 18:11

Indians go to the West and find car and fridge in middle class and think "I am middle class". Bollocks. In India this is elite.


The GoI would quibble with the part related to fridge:

Refrigerators were present in 28% of urban households, air coolers in 15% and washing machines in 11%. The corresponding rural proportions were 4% for refrigerators, 2.5% for air coolers, and less than 1% for washing machines.


http://www.mospi.nic.in/nss_58round_pre ... june05.htm

The above was from 2002, refrigerator ownership must only have gone up from that time. So, either there are more elites in India, or even the middle class owns fridges and fridge ownership does not make one elite as you claim.

A chawl resident in Mumbai, a family in Dharavi or any slum is likely to own a fridge. Are they elites? Perhaps...
The other point is a rural family may prefer to own a two-wheeler than a fridge, mainly due to the electricity situation...
Are they elites?

Are people on this forum lower class elites? Surely. But are all people that own fridges elites? Doubtful.

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby Sanku » 21 Feb 2010 18:12

chandrabhan wrote:


When did he loose sleep just for my knowledge? "


He was brutally traumatized when the Brother of Glasgow bomber was arrested for questioning in Australia, he could not sleep and ensured that GoI pressurized the Ozzie govt into letting Hanif go.


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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby ramana » 21 Feb 2010 20:58

This is getting ridiculous. The thread its about Pune blast and not Indian society.

Thanks, ramana

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby shiv » 21 Feb 2010 21:07

Indians go to the West and find car and fridge in middle class and think "I am middle class". Bollocks. In India this is elite.


The GoI would quibble with the part related to fridge:

Refrigerators were present in 28% of urban households, air coolers in 15% and washing machines in 11%. The corresponding rural proportions were 4% for refrigerators, 2.5% for air coolers, and less than 1% for washing machines.


Saar - 90% of Indians have no fridge as per your link. If they are middle class the figure goes against the assertion that Indian has 300 million middle class.

It also means that on average any hit on India by a terrorist had a 1% chance of killing the elite, maybe 9% chance of killing middle class and 90% chance of killing commoner.

It is extraordinarily difficult to kill the elite in large numbers. He will have to hit a private function where such elites congregate and those are rare and unpublicised. Easier to hit a congregation of elites plus just wealthy, but even these events have a sizable proportion of "service staff" of bottom 90%.

In any case the places where the wealthy congregate regularly are generally well protected. However it is only a matter of time before terrorists target a soft target collection of wealthy and elite such as they did in Mumbai. The German bakery blast was one such attack - but how far has it gone? The idea that the elite can be specifically attacked is an interesting one - for the terrorists. But the elite are thin on the ground and protected by a bevy of non elites who get hit.

I wonder how many ordinary civilians have to get hit to produce the same governmental anger as we might see from one hit on "R" the Rajkumar? But then again Rajiv Gandhi was killed by a Sri Lankan. Did India extract vengeance immediately? I doubt if even a one-off hitting of a major personality will produce a reaction that will not win in the longterm. Just my guess.

Pakistani terrorists will keep on hitting. India will keep on absorbing. They (terrorists) will keep on thinking that India is bleeding. India will bleed and keep on going. Who will come out on "top"? The Jihadis want to come out on top. India too does not want to come second. So its a question of who will last longer. Pakistan and its jihadis or India. The jihadis are doing what they can to make sure they cause pain but last long. India is doing what is needed to absorb pain but last long.

Who will last longer? I am no astrologer, I am only a foot soldier of a sort. I will do whatever is in my power to make India last longer. I don't see any short term solutions. Others may see short term solutions but I don;t see them. We are in this for the long haul.

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby Mahendra » 21 Feb 2010 21:11

^+1
Image

Sanku
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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby Sanku » 21 Feb 2010 22:27

shiv wrote: I don't see any short term solutions. Others may see short term solutions but I don;t see them. We are in this for the long haul.


A solution in the short term is not same as short term solution

Also I dont think any one thinks that there is going to be a solution in short term.

However this does not mean that "hath pe hath dhar ke baithe rahe" (sit with hands on each other) is any type of solution either.

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby Tanaji » 21 Feb 2010 23:13

Saar - 90% of Indians have no fridge as per your link. If they are middle class the figure goes against the assertion that Indian has 300 million middle class.


I have my whole doubts on the 300 million number as well.. every one's definition of middle class is different.. Is a family of four living in a single room, earning around Rs. 8-9K per month an "elite"? As per your definition he is... Also, India seems to have awful number of elites : 10% by your definition... I used to think elite were the creme de la creme, 1-2% max!

But the elite are thin on the ground and protected by a bevy of non elites who get hit.


As per your own definition, this is totally incorrect. I dont know Major Unnithan who died in the encounter, but it is reasonable to assume that he had a fridge. Also, he made more than Rs. 8000 pm, given his salary. So he is an elite. Tukaram Omble made more than Rs. 8000 a month so he is an elite as per definition. Not sure if he had a fridge or not though... Karkakre, Salaskar et al were elites , and its fair to assume they had fridges...

The people who died at the railway station probably made more than R.s 8000 as well. The taxi driver who got killed when his taxi was blown up made more than Rs. 8000 a month (most taxi drivers do)..

So, either your definition of "elites" is incorrect, or elites do get hit as well.


I wonder how many ordinary civilians have to get hit to produce the same governmental anger as we might see from one hit on "R" the Rajkumar? But then again Rajiv Gandhi was killed by a Sri Lankan. Did India extract vengeance immediately? I doubt if even a one-off hitting of a major personality will produce a reaction that will not win in the longterm. Just my guess.

Pakistani terrorists will keep on hitting. India will keep on absorbing. They (terrorists) will keep on thinking that India is bleeding. India will bleed and keep on going. Who will come out on "top"? The Jihadis want to come out on top. India too does not want to come second. So its a question of who will last longer. Pakistan and its jihadis or India. The jihadis are doing what they can to make sure they cause pain but last long. India is doing what is needed to absorb pain but last long.




What is the need to do anything? There are more kids dying out of malnutrition than people dying of terrorist attacks. Surely the money spent on VIP security would save more lives if spent on eradicating malnutrition? India has 1.2 billion people, even a Mumbai style attack every day would kill 300 * 365 = 109500... much less than the amount of people dying in dowry deaths, malnutrition and road accidents.

:( Sorry massively OT. I will shut up.

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby A_Gupta » 22 Feb 2010 02:34

^^^^^^^^^^^

Why class - middle-class vs elite - came up is because of trying to understand whom the Jihadis intended to target, what their purpose might be, and how perhaps the class of people most affected influenced the GOI's reaction.

However, it seems to have become a digression.

As to the rest, there are threads to discuss each of India's problems.

Meanwhile in Pune,
http://www.sakaaltimes.com/SakaalTimesB ... 764241.htm

The forensic experts have lifted nearly 70 DNA samples from the scene of explosion and were trying to match them with those who had either been killed or were injured, official sources said today. A senior official said the agency wants to rule out all possibilities before moving on in the investigations and hinted that a profiling of all the DNA samples collected would be conducted.
....
The ATS has drawn a blank so far from the interrogation report of a few jailed Indian Mujahideen (IM) terrorists to get some leads on who could be behind the attack in which two foreigners were killed. The investigators were also baffled by the quickness with which the local police had washed the blast site with water thinking that was a gas cylinder blast.

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby Muppalla » 22 Feb 2010 04:46

Mahendra wrote:^+1
Image


I want to put this in every thread where ever there is either discussion/questioning the strategy/policy of UPA regarding handling terror, foreign policy etc.

But it would be silly to cross post it in all such threads though it may boost my ego in the form of post count.

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby Muppalla » 22 Feb 2010 04:53

Held IM operative linked to Pune blast

Karn Pratap Singh | New Delhi

It was a sheer coincidence Lodhi Colony police of South Delhi, which was investigating an online fraud case, ended up arresting a woman Indian Mujahideen operative suspected to be close to the mastermind behind the Pune blast. The Police are considering it as an important lead that can help the investigating agencies crack the February 13 Pune blast case.

During interrogation, Nikita, 28, a resident of West Bengal, who was arrested on Thursday by Lodhi Colony Police for duping a Gujarat-based businessman by selling him a fake herbal product through online business, reported to have revealed that she was close to Amir Raza Khan, the founder of the Indian Mujahideen and the suspected mastermind behind the Pune terror blast.

“Her interrogation revealed that she was in contact with three persons whom the investigating agencies are suspecting as prime conspirators in the Pune blast. While scrutinising the call details of her cellphone, it was learnt that she had been frequently calling on three numbers before the Pune blast. The disclosure was immediately brought into the notice of the investigating agencies,” said a senior official of the Delhi Police on the condition of anonymity.

“The investigating agencies are suspecting that the three cellphone numbers, which are no longer in operation, might have been used by the mastermind of the Pune blast. And after realising that Nikita may guide them in establishing the identifications of the perpetrators of the Pune blast, the investigating agencies are seeking her custody,” he said.

The Delhi Police officer, however, refused to share the three cellphone numbers saying it will hamper the investigation. Insiders say that the central investigating agencies, including the National Investigating Agency (NIA) and IB, would secure the custody of the woman and interrogate her to know about the perpetrators of the Pune blast.

While sharing details related to the fraud case, Deputy Commissioner of Police (South) HGS Dhaliwal had said that Nikita, who served over six years in prison till 2008 for attacking American Center in Kolkata, will be interrogated in coordination with intelligence agencies in view of the recent terror attacks, including the Pune terror blast. Four Nigerian nationals who were involved in the fraud were also arrested.

Police sources said Nikita is an active accomplice of Asif Raza Khan, brother of Indian Mujahideen commander-in-chief Amir Raza Khan, who is wanted by investigating agencies in several blast cases across the country since 2005, including the 2008 Delhi serial blast.

Asif Raza Khan was gunned down in an encounter with the Gujarat Police in Rajkot a few years back, while his accomplice Aftab Ansari was awarded death sentence by the Calcutta High Court early this month.

“Nikita was in close contact with both Asif and Amir Raza Khan and had helped them in providing safe shelter in India before the January 22, 2002 American Centre attack in Kolkata. Amir Raza Khan, the handler of Indian Mujahideen’s modules, is presently hiding in Karachi in Pakistan. During investigation, we also learnt that Nikita had once visited Dubai and there she had met with Amir Raza Khan. It was Amir Raza Khan who had introduced her to Asif and asked her to cooperate him in their mission to target the American Centre,” added the official.

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby shiv » 22 Feb 2010 07:22

Tanaji wrote:
What is the need to do anything? There are more kids dying out of malnutrition than people dying of terrorist attacks. Surely the money spent on VIP security would save more lives if spent on eradicating malnutrition? India has 1.2 billion people, even a Mumbai style attack every day would kill 300 * 365 = 109500... much less than the amount of people dying in dowry deaths, malnutrition and road accidents.

:( Sorry massively OT. I will shut up.


Actually not OT at all. The theory that you state is good (in theory). That is why even Pakistanis say pretty much the same thing as well as WKKs - i.e that if India spent less on defence there would be more money left to feed India's starving millions.

I have two comments on the viewpoint:
1) The fallacy of not having robust defence is well known on here. I have vulgar analogies about my neighbor's wife about that
2) The second point - which comes up only obliquely and is generally considered OT is not OT at all when looked at in the context of the way Indians have responded to terror. First is the unavoidable fact of the way Indian society is structured and the vast area over which that same Indian society is spread. And these two factors are intertwined with how society views life, suffering and death. We (the educated) tend not to give importance to the latter for several reasons - mostly Macaulay-inspired reasons. We the educated elite are indoctrinated to respond to societal problems in certain ways. If you want to "get ahead" in your career you must learn "facts" in a certain way even if they are not necessarily the whole truth or appropriate in our society.

I could write a chapter on what I feel about this but what happens is that in India it is different strokes for different folks. Keeping India going with a common purpose is not possible unless you indulge in acts of pleasing and mollifying individual constituencies. Vote bank politics is a bad word - but what is expected of the security services in Pune is different from what is expected of the security services in the Naxal infested areas of West Bengal.

The inconsolable grief of losing a son or daughter, father or mother is obviously the same for anyone, but the action required to prevent repeat acts for those who are alive is different for different places. Once again I will sound insensitive and callous - but the murders of policemen in two camps in Bengal by a gang of 100 Naxalites did not grab the attention of this forum the way the Pune blasts did. I think it is extreme hypocrisy for forum members who paid no heed to the Naxal attacks to accuse the government of favoring the elite, and reacting only to the elite. This forum shows the way its members think by giving far more attention to the Pune blast than the Naxal violence that is as serious in that part of the country.

Here is the first news of the Naxal violence on BRF
viewtopic.php?p=824477#p824477
The discussion that follows has reached about 28 posts - not enough to fill even one page of one thread.

This thread is on page 11. Watching and reading the news in India I cannot blame the media or the government. Both the Naxal violence and the Pune blast have received their due share of attention. To me it sounds like hypocrisy on this forum to claim that the government responds only when the elite are hit and is not concerned about common man. I believe that it is us on this forum who are not responding when the non elite are hit and cannot see the government's viewpoint because we don't see a problem when the non elite are hit.

Yes I am making generalizations and I suffer from the same blindness as anyone else and should not be accusing people, but I believe there is a bias in what we see as a problem. To us Pakistan is the biggest problem. It is such a big problem that many of us on here (and that includes me) have spent many man-weeks or man months researching various nuances of the subject to show how Pakistan is about to defeat and collapse beloved India. If India collapses it has more reasons to do that than Pakistan. One good reason would be an inability to see what priorities are important for Indians at the micro-level and managing all that with macro-level problems. Governance of India is not easy. Pakistan has a societal structure somewhat reminiscent of India (with smaller size and diversity) and a massive pretence that Islam somehow unites all Pakis. Pakistani leaders have concentrated on the external enemy and have made a massive mess of governance. it is our bad luck that they believe India is their only enemy. But Pakistan is not the only problem we face. India can very easily mess up its own governance as badly as Pakistan in an ironic mother of all equal equals if we cannot see priorities.

Does that mean we keep getting hit by Paki terrorists? Yes. It is going to keep happening unless we get lucky and some of the things that are being attempted actually work. A discussion of that is probably more suited to the Paki thread.

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby RamaY » 22 Feb 2010 07:37

My bad... apologies
Last edited by RamaY on 22 Feb 2010 08:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby Anujan » 22 Feb 2010 07:38

shiv wrote:This thread is on page 11. Watching and reading the news in India I cannot blame the media or the government. Both the Naxal violence and the Pune blast have received their due share of attention. To me it sounds like hypocrisy on this forum to claim that the government responds only when the elite are hit and is not concerned about common man. I believe that it is us on this forum who are not responding when the non elite are hit and cannot see the government's viewpoint because we don't see a problem when the non elite are hit.

... India can very easily mess up its own governance as badly as Pakistan in an ironic mother of all equal equals if we cannot see priorities.


Shiv ji

There is a qualitative difference between Naxal violence and Pak-inspired jihadi violence. In case of Naxal violence, it is a test of *our* problem solving skills, the violence is a symptom of *our* failures vis-a-vis governance and security. Why do Naxals exist? Do they have genuine grievances ? Are tribals being exploited by the corporations? Are tribals not finding voice in the government? Do disaffected youth join the group because of lack of employment opportunities? These are all the questions that should be answered by us and tacked by us. It can be done within the framework of our constitution, within the framework of our justice system and within our stated values of equality and social justice. I have great faith in our democracy, in our values, in our Justice system and thus the confidence that we wont mess up governance.

Paki inspired Jihadi violence is a whole another ball game. Make no mistake, Pak violence flows from a central premise -- "Chaos created by Jihadi violence and Hindu-Muslim disunity benefits Pakistan". They have attempted it using two assumptions 1. Muslims will rise up against Hindoos if they see that they are "winning" the holy war (Op gibraltar) 2. Muslims used for violence will create more Hindu suspicion against muslims, Muslim resentment, more muslim violence and a downward death spiral. There is no way of addressing this "internally" by careful application of development, force and social justice. And this has the potential to unravel the very basis of our nation.

BRF-ites instinctively realize this. Therefore more takleef for Paki problems, less takleef for Naxal problems. Add to that a perception that Paki problem is more complicated because of geopolitics, international meddling, their army, their bum ityadi.

Now coming to the malnourishment-terror argument. To add another dimension, let us consider accidents. I am reasonably sure more Indians die of road accidents, domestic fires and industrial accidents per year than from terror. These accidents are random too. Does it mean we ignore terror-related deaths. Another food for thought. In 100 years, atleast 1.4 billion Indians will die. That includes you, me, and everyone else in this forum. Does it make a difference if it is 1.4 billion + 15 in Pune? Then why the hoopla about resuming talks? Why the :(( about the guvrmand not caring about lives of mango men?

I personally find Pakistan, Pakis and Paki-inspired violence in its current form repulsive, because they are against everything that my country stands for. It is either them or us, or they change. I on the other hand think Naxalism is a grave danger that can be solved within the framework of the principles that form our nationhood.

Food for thought.

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby Rudradev » 22 Feb 2010 07:53

I agree with Anujan's analysis. The fact of external aggression (even if the Pakis may also be involved in Naxal violence to whatever extent) is more pronounced when it comes to Pune.

As far as governance issues go, I think most people here on BRF are well aware of the dire problems that exist. They are also aware there is little that can be done to address the way things are run in India that will not also weaken the people and institutions running India (as a part of the process, if not as an end result).

Government institutions have great inertia, and are hugely resistant to change in the way they do things. You cannot shake them up without causing some sort of disruptions, and you cannot reshape them to what you consider more ideal ways of functioning without causing major disruptions. We may or may not agree with Rahul Mehta's prescriptions for example, but anyone who has thought through the process of actually instituting them will quickly realize that the resistance against such reforms will be tremendous, and can only be overcome by an equally forceful popular resistance against the government. The question is, do we consider that worth it?

People on BR instinctively realize this as well. And since what brings us here is the hobby horse of national security, we realize also that whatever weakens the state (heavily flawed as it is) will necessary weaken, or even completely cripple the state's capacity to address national security concerns.

So we are stuck in a Catch-22 situation whereby, if we want to seriously reform the governance issues that keep India mired in a number of social, developmental and economic problems, we will have to sacrifice more national security options than most BRFites would like to countenance; whereas, if we focus on national security as far-and-away the highest priority, everything else will remain as it is or grow worse.

In that, Shiv is correct that we may end up doing an equal-equal with Pakistan. Pakistan is a cartoon version of the same process... focusing on destroying India to the exclusion of everything else, they are a complete dungheap by any yardstick of governance or development. If we, similarly, decide to make punishing Pakistan a priority to the exclusion of everything else we will end up like Pakistan (Islam or no Islam).

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby shiv » 22 Feb 2010 08:49

Off topic thoughts self deleted and cross posted in Paki thread
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5402&p=827777#p827777

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby Anujan » 22 Feb 2010 09:14

I deleted my post and moved it to the Paki thread after I saw that shiv-ji moved his post.

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby AjayKK » 22 Feb 2010 12:15

Two more Indians succumb to their injuries.

Death toll rises to 15 in Pune German Bakery blast

wo more persons - both students - succumbed to their injuries in a hospital here today, taking the death toll in the February 13 terror attack on the German Bakery to 15, hospital sources said.

The deceased, 23-year-old Rajeev Agarwal - a student of Symbiosis, and 24-year-old Vikas Tulsiyani from D Y Patil college, hailed from Kolkata and Delhi respectively, they said.

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby chetak » 22 Feb 2010 12:20

And meanwhile, back at the ranch!!

Poor little daaaaaaaaaaarling :twisted:

Monday, February 22, 2010


Headley was an absolute monster: Bhatt

PTI | Mumbai

Four months after the involvement of US terror suspect David Headley in 26/11 attacks came to light, filmmaker Mahesh Bhatt’s son Rahul Bhatt is still to come to terms with the ‘betrayal of faith’ by the US national whom he now calls a ‘terror jackal’ and an ‘absolute monster’.

“This incident has shaken me terribly. I have lost faith in everyone. I don't even trust my girlfriend now. I have started suspecting people in my family. I can't trust anymore. I have become like a typical policeman who looks at everyone with suspicion...Its paranoia,” says 28-year-old Bhatt.

Bhatt, who is a nutritionist and a fitness professional, said the Headley incident has made him ‘xenophobic’ and he has lost faith in all human relationships. Whatever has happened of late has also made him ‘wiser’, he said.

“I have become a xenophobic... I have stopped trusting people and I am extremely suspicious of foreigners ...It is xenophobia that I have developed. So now, my guard is up and I am in a constant state of awareness and alertness because of the bizarre incident,” said

Bhatt who was questioned by security agencies after it emerged that Headley had known him during his stay in Mumbai. To a question about his association with Headley, a sudden agitation is quite evident in Bhatt's voice. “Did I know Headley? The answer is a yes and a no. The David Headley that I knew then was a different man and the David who has now emerged now is a different man...The absolute monster.”

Bhatt, a budding actor, said during his conversations with Headley, there was no chance that he could have been doubted of having had any terror links.

“My father was making a film on terrorism and I was getting an American perspective from him (Headley). He was not just any American. He was an intelligent man. He was a well-informed man. A man with high IQ. And like I said in my dreams I still find it tough to believe that he was not only a terrorist but a terror jackal...And you imagine the betrayal... He turns out to be the terrorist jackal. An absolute monster.”

Bhatt, who has been questioned more than twice by National Investigation Agency, probing the role of Headley and his Pakistani-Canadian associate Tahawwur Rana, said that Headley had called him a month after the 26/11 attack.

“A month after 26/11 when he had called me and sounded very concerned. He was a great actor. I would say, imagine the way he fooled me... Acting very concerned whether me and my family members and Vilas (Varak) and his family members are all okay and everything is safe...Yeah, that was one month after 26/11. He made a phone call,” recalled Bhatt.

Headley, who was arrested in Chicago on October three last, has been charged by the FBI with conspiracy of 26/11 terror strike in Mumbai.



I know yaar, I would also be very very suspicious if I had a family like that. :evil:

RayC
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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby RayC » 22 Feb 2010 12:55

I am overwhelmed with grief. :-o


What does his Pakistan loving father has to say?

Since Headley was a great actor, does he have a slot in Mahesh Bhatt's next movie?

Any comments from Shabana Azmi and her unique husband Javed?

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby CRamS » 22 Feb 2010 13:06

chetak wrote:he was not only a terrorist but a terror jackal...And you imagine the betrayal... He turns out to be the terrorist jackal. An absolute monster.”



In other words a typical TSP RAPE.

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby amit » 22 Feb 2010 16:49

chetak wrote:And meanwhile, back at the ranch!!

Poor little daaaaaaaaaaarling :twisted:

“This incident has shaken me terribly. I have lost faith in everyone. I don't even trust my girlfriend now. I have started suspecting people in my family. I can't trust anymore. I have become like a typical policeman who looks at everyone with suspicion...Its paranoia,” says 28-year-old Bhatt.


If the bolded portion is true, there's hope yet for the chota Bhatt.

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 22 Feb 2010 21:02

Rahul Bhatt is sincere and earnest, quite distressed at his experience with Headley. He(Rahul) is deserving of respect and sympathy. His father Mahesh Bhatt, is not.

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby derkonig » 22 Feb 2010 22:24

^^^
A viper's kid is still a viper...
Besides, here is todays dose of sekoolaarism...AoA
http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/feb/22/german-bakery-not-ruling-out-possibility-of-hindu-link-to-blast.htm

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby ramana » 23 Feb 2010 04:54

derkonig wrote:^^^
A viper's kid is still a viper...
Besides, here is todays dose of sekoolaarism...AoA
http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/feb/22/german-bakery-not-ruling-out-possibility-of-hindu-link-to-blast.htm



Then how come only Ind Muj links are yeilding info? And TSP cell phone chatter increased after the blasts?

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby Muppalla » 23 Feb 2010 06:35

derkonig wrote:^^^
A viper's kid is still a viper...
Besides, here is todays dose of sekoolaarism...AoA
http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/feb/22/german-bakery-not-ruling-out-possibility-of-hindu-link-to-blast.htm


This is no surprise and as expected. What I infer from this is that Pune blasts are done by IM and SIMI. As soon as you know if the action to be taken has to be from sleeper cells in India, the distraction is very important.

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby ashish raval » 23 Feb 2010 15:35

One of the main suspect is under arrest I guess..

http://www.zeenews.com/news606397.html

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby chetak » 23 Feb 2010 15:45

quote="amit" quote="chetak" And meanwhile, back at the ranch!!

Poor little daaaaaaaaaaarling :twisted:

“This incident has shaken me terribly. I have lost faith in everyone. I don't even trust my girlfriend now. I have started suspecting people in my family. I can't trust anymore. I have become like a typical policeman who looks at everyone with suspicion...Its paranoia,” says 28-year-old Bhatt.

If the bolded portion is true, there's hope yet for the chota Bhatt.



Artful al-Taqiyya??

chota or badha, butt will be butt as the fruit does not fall far from the tree.

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby Dilbu » 23 Feb 2010 16:56

Tanaji wrote:I dont know Major Unnithan who died in the encounter

It is Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan. (Not trying to nitpick. Part of 'never forgive, never forget' startegy onlee)

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby vijayk » 23 Feb 2010 18:56

derkonig wrote:^^^
A viper's kid is still a viper...
Besides, here is todays dose of sekoolaarism...AoA
http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/feb/22/german-bakery-not-ruling-out-possibility-of-hindu-link-to-blast.htm


The Maharashtra [ Images ] government may also look at the possibility of involvement of right wing Hindu organisations in the Pune blast, a top official said on Monday.

"We have not ruled out possibility of the involvement of right wing Hindu organisations in the blast," a senior Home Department official told media-persons in Mumbai [ Images ].

The official was replying to a question by reporters whether they are ruling out the involvement of any right wing Hindu organisation in the terror attack on February 13 that left 15 persons dead.

Pune, being a major centre for right wing activists, the probe will also consider their links, the official said, adding so far there has been no confirmation of involvement of any group.

Recent media reports linked Hindu organisation Abhinav Bharat, to the blast. The organisation is led by Himani Savarkar — daughter of Gopal Godse, brother of Mahatma Gandhi's assassin Nathuram.

On media reports that the investigation would be transferred to the National Investigation Agency (NIA), the official said ATS would continue the probe. "We have no indications from the Centre that they want the case to be transferred to NIA," the official said.


Noticed it? No where they identify any one who said that. It is "The Official"


Recent media reports linked Hindu organisation Abhinav Bharat, to the blast


"A lie repeated 100 times will become truth" dictum

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Re: Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

Postby kenop » 23 Feb 2010 20:24

Headlines today is reporting linkages with a Jiahdi in uniform.
Investigations into the February 13 Pune blast are now pointing to a serving Pakistan army officer as a key conspirator.

The name of Colonel Hamad alias Abdul Rahman of the Pakistan army has been revealed by terrorist Shaik Abdul Khwaja alias Amjad, who is under arrest.

Amjad was an important asset of the ISI and carried out many terror attacks in India from Pakistani soil. He was arrested in a covert operation by RAW in Colombo last month. His disclosures have given a new dimension to the German Bakery blast probe.

Sources told Headlines Today that India is now seriously considering taking up the issue with the Pakistan foreign secretary on February 25 during the foreign secretary-level talks between the two countries.

The whole day these guys have been talking about Prof Hafeez Sayeed's Lawhore calls for Jihad. The tapes referred to have been reportedly been found interesting by the MEA.


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