Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

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Manish_P
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Manish_P » 21 Oct 2018 18:14

Restructuring will be good. But IMHO the manpower should not be reduced.

We will need boots on the ground for future military actions.

Not to forget the forces being used for all sorts of reasons (floods, civil unrests, railway over-bridge building...)

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ramana » 24 Oct 2018 03:03

Please post full text of Gen. Rawat interview

https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news ... ssion=true

These are as revolutionary as Lord Kitchner reforms in 1890s.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Ankit Desai » 24 Oct 2018 05:08

ramana wrote:Please post full text of Gen. Rawat interview

https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news ... ssion=true

These are as revolutionary as Lord Kitchner reforms in 1890s.



Link

-Ankit

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Manish_P » 27 Oct 2018 11:55

Infantry Day today.

Greetings and Respects to all our serving, veteran and martyred Jawans and Officers.
They are the heart and soul of the Army, the Sword arm as well as the Shield of the motherland.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Chinmay » 31 Oct 2018 18:14

Same article as for LRSAM deal cross posted in IN thread

Sky Capture radar upgrades for AD guns

The other deal for Sky Capture involves a command-and-control system for anti-aircraft systems, radar and electro-optical systems, which can be used to confront short-range targets. Currently this envisions a $550 million deal that will be provided to the Army for 40mm guns. It’s a “family of air defense,” Levy stressed, meaning that it could also use its Elta radar and Tamam electro-optical capability to aim an effector for man-portable air-defense systems or a missile.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ramana » 31 Oct 2018 21:28

The concept of family of air defense is gaining ground in US too with same radar and fire control systems to operate a range of weapons.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby wig » 05 Nov 2018 10:39

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... 78928.html


New battle groups to face Pak, says Army chief
For China too | Gen Rawat says organisational structure old, needs change
excerpts


In a major tweak to the existing deployment and readiness levels of the Indian Army, integrated battle groups (IBGs), fully equipped with elements of warfare, are planned to be pre-positioned facing the western (Pakistan) and northern (China) borders.
Army Chief General Bipin Rawat, in an interview to The Tribune, said: “We are preparing ground to keep the forces ready for any future eventuality. Our organisational structure is old. It needs change.”
Asked about the proposed change or restructuring of the Army, Gen Rawat said: “We are going to test-bed the IBGs very soon. I am suggesting that we be integrated in peacetime to save the time wasted in ‘integrating’ while going for combat. Various battalions (of infantry, armoured, artillery, signals and engineers) are already assigned to an area and we now want them to be ready in peacetime.”
“Test-bed” is a term in military parlance for trying out a new concept in field under real conditions. Asked if the IBG will be a bigger form of a traditional brigade (three-four battalions or 3,500 men), Gen Rawat said: “We are looking at two types of IBGs — smaller ones for the mountains (the Himalayas facing China) and the bigger ones for the plains (facing Pakistan).”
On the issue of numbers, the Army Chief said: “Ideally we will know after the test-bed, but it could be eight to 10 IBGs in the west and same in the north. An IBG could have four to six battalions of infantry and armoured, two to three artillery regiments, an engineers unit, integrated signals unit and also dedicated integral logistics.
Last edited by ramana on 16 Nov 2018 04:47, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added highlights ramana

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby anjan » 15 Nov 2018 22:54

ramana wrote:Please post full text of Gen. Rawat interview

https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news ... ssion=true

These are as revolutionary as Lord Kitchner reforms in 1890s.
Gen Rawat must take comfort from being seen as a visionary in these parts. In the Army itself he's seen as a political appointee - a weak and ineffective leader unwilling to stand behind his men and bending over for his political masters. He's less Kitchner and more a Thapar.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ks_sachin » 16 Nov 2018 02:44

anjan wrote:
ramana wrote:Please post full text of Gen. Rawat interview

https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news ... ssion=true

These are as revolutionary as Lord Kitchner reforms in 1890s.
Gen Rawat must take comfort from being seen as a visionary in these parts. In the Army itself he's seen as a political appointee - a weak and ineffective leader unwilling to stand behind his men and bending over for his political masters. He's less Kitchner and more a Thapar.

You know how effectiveness of chiefs is measured these days among retired offrs?


1. Bad for army - Generals Deepak Kapoor
2. Ineffective but done no harm
3. Good.- Gen BC Joshi

Gen JJ and Bikram Singh are considered to be in category 1.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ramana » 16 Nov 2018 04:51

ks_sachin, Looks like the IBGs are the smaller Cold Start formations.
Pak cant nuke them while they tear them apart.
Earlier the Cold Start was non starter as the formation were large enough to invite nuke strike.

I only hope the Maj Generals wont deploy these on a thin front and waste the resources.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ks_sachin » 16 Nov 2018 05:28

ramana wrote:ks_sachin, Looks like the IBGs are the smaller Cold Start formations.
Pak cant nuke them while they tear them apart.
Earlier the Cold Start was non starter as the formation were large enough to invite nuke strike.

I only hope the Maj Generals wont deploy these on a thin front and waste the resources.

Ramana sir,

My concern is not what they are but why they have been constituted.

Are there pure operational reasons?
Or are there administrative reasons that a few people like Gen Hasnain have raised concerns about?

Have these been wargamed sufficiently?
Has the officer career pathway been sufficiently analysed?

Since we don't or cannot seem to be able to define our small arms requirements itself, I am sceptical of the due dilligence exercised in this matter..

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby anjan » 16 Nov 2018 09:53

ramana wrote:Pak cant nuke them while they tear them apart. Earlier the Cold Start was non starter as the formation were large enough to invite nuke strike.
Whether an IBG or a div they only concentrate before they strike. They're not exactly sitting around in one place just because they're a DIv. Second, if an objective needs 10k men to take it, it needs that. Whether that means 1 div+ or 3 IBG+ is irrelevant. And they will concentrate just the same. An IBG does not magically become more effective.

The US uses IBG and equivalent because they are at the core an expeditionary army and reams have been written on the loss of core professional competencies that has resulted even there. God only knows what it's supposed to do for us.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby anjan » 16 Nov 2018 09:58

ks_sachin wrote:1. Bad for army - Generals Deepak Kapoor
Gen JJ and Bikram Singh are considered to be in category 1.
Just with his Bomdila commentary Gen Rawat makes his 1st place. What soldier wants to serve under a man who'll throw his men under a bus at the least sign of his masters' displeasure. Thank God we still have men of spine like the Corps Commander.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Rishi_Tri » 16 Nov 2018 10:16

anjan wrote:
ramana wrote:Please post full text of Gen. Rawat interview

https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news ... ssion=true

These are as revolutionary as Lord Kitchner reforms in 1890s.
Gen Rawat must take comfort from being seen as a visionary in these parts. In the Army itself he's seen as a political appointee - a weak and ineffective leader unwilling to stand behind his men and bending over for his political masters. He's less Kitchner and more a Thapar.


HUH.. Army who!!.. the generals who were superseded by Gen Rawat and the generals who thought seniority as only criteria along with .. to be the top man.. Gen Rawat is only general who has spoken his mind freely to some extent.. VK Singh was other one!! Political Appointee .. well who is not.. !!

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby wig » 17 Nov 2018 09:13

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/comme ... 84324.html

Bandwagoning at Bomdila
The Chief of Army Staff has already announced that the soldiers, if found guilty, would be punished. Do I hear a similar announcement from the state police or the IPS ‘association’ about their officials?


excerpted from the article
There were some heated arguments between a jawan and a police official which later took the form of an altercation. The second jawan came to assist his colleague in the ensuing physical struggle.
A narrative has been built around the incident, ostensibly to justify police brutality, that it was a case of drunk soldiers misbehaving with a lady which the police official attempted to stop. The hard truth is that the jawans were picked up by the local police, detained illegally and beaten up brutally. The medical report of the local district hospital clearly mentions ‘multiple contusions and blunt injuries’ on their shoulders, thighs and backs, a fact further corroborated by the military hospital.

Logically speaking, restraining is holding or pinning down a person. I have not come across any restraining which leads to injuries of the kind suffered by the two soldiers. Even if we go by the accounts of local police officials, was the altercation an alleged misdemeanour worthy of an illegal custodial beating? Is it any crime? The viciousness with which these soldiers were beaten smacks of vindictiveness. In fact, this custodial beating of the two soldiers has become such an open secret that bureaucrats and police officials defending the local police’s actions have made attempts to both normalise and internalise this illegal action.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby uskumar » 19 Nov 2018 13:47

2 Articles on recent changes in Army
Integrated Battle Groups Are India's Response to Pakistan

Review on to restructure Indian Army

Apologies if these were already posted.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby SaiK » 20 Nov 2018 08:20

Sope, how many Igla-S and what is this order worth?

If $1.5, add $5.3 for S400, Russia gets nearly $7b orders from this gov.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ramana » 21 Nov 2018 02:49

By sticking to Make in India (#MII),the Indian Navy has started as a littoral brown water force to now a blue ocean navy.
P-15b are 7300 tonne displacement.

Wish both IA and IAF had dedicated some effort to support #MII.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby SaiK » 22 Nov 2018 19:59

Army To Test Fully Indian Man-Portable Anti Tank Missile Shortly

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2018/11 ... ortly.html

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby wig » 24 Nov 2018 10:21

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... 88225.html

Army aims to cut troop strength by 1 lakh - Focus on automation, the number of officers could be brought down by at least 4,500

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ks_sachin » 27 Nov 2018 16:17

Admins..
Our paltan had the honour of hosting the celebrations of the 56th Anniversary of the Battle of Rezang La this year.
Pictures available..
How?

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby sunnyP » 29 Nov 2018 00:50

We Can Use Strike Drones in J&K If People Will Accept Collateral Damage: Army Chief
General Bipin Rawat said public opinion was the only obstacle to using drones to counter ‘hybrid warfare’ on both sides of the Line of Control.


New Delhi: The Indian army is capable of using drones to attack hostile targets inside Jammu and Kashmir and across the Line of Control, and sees “no problem” in using them provided the nation is willing to accept “mistakes” and “collateral damage”, army chief Bipin Rawat said on Wednesday.

He was responding to a question about India following the example of the United States in using strike drones. India has not used air power in domestic counter-insurgency operations since the 1960s, largely out of concern over civilian casualties.

“There is just no problem in using these kind of weapons” on either the Indian side of the Line of Control or in Pakistan-occupied territory, said General Rawat – so long as there was no backlash in public opinion or from the international community.


After his prepared lecture, General Rawat took questions from the audience. His full remarks in reply to the question on drones were as follows:

“When you talk of strike drones, how does the Israeli strike the Hezbollah – how do they do it? You see, they have sources on the ground, who pinpoint a vehicle – who say that, this is a vehicle in which a leader has just come out of a house, and somebody has just given the information. They electronically mark that vehicle.

“That vehicle gets marked. And now a drone takes off in the air, and hits that vehicle. God help you if you’re in the following vehicle – you’re also gone.

“Now, this kind of thing is possible in that area – in that country. In our country, you’ve seen the kind of repercussions… the kind of flak that you face when you take such action even against a stone-thrower, who’s carrying out offensive action against you.

“In our country, the way things are moving, it’s very nice to say we need these drones. But will you accept mistakes being committed by such weapons systems? You have to accept it. If the nation will spare us, for the kind of mistakes that may get committed using such kind of weapons, then I think we can take a call.”

At this point, the officer asking the question clarified that his question was about deploying drones across the Line of Control: “I’m talking across – to kill their leaders, basically.”

General Rawat answered:

“You see, across also there can be mistakes. Either way, whether in your territory or the territory across, there will be mistakes. So if we are willing to accept these mistakes, and we feel that there will be no repercussions, there will be no backlash, there is a way forward.

“It’s not to say that we can’t use it. That is the reason why we are trying to procure these weapons. But these weapons are being procured more for… not for the hybrid warfare systems, we’re looking at it from the conventional war… but yes, anything that we procure has got dual use.

“But the first issue is of collateral damage. We get so concerned. In your own nation, your people get concerned about collateral damage so much – when you are fighting this kind of warfare, I think you have to accept that collateral damage will happen. It is war. If that is something which we can accept, then there is just no problem in using these kind of weapons.

“But can we accept it. Will the international community get after us? Or will they spare us in case mistakes happen? That is a call we have to take. Otherwise there is just no problem in using it.”



https://thewire.in/security/we-can-use- ... army-chief

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Rakesh » 01 Dec 2018 04:38

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 1976955904 ---> Indian Army issues tender for 938 air defence guns and ammunition to replace the L- 70 and ZU-23mm.

Image

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Singha » 04 Dec 2018 14:46

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/new-sur ... es-1957469

Tri service socom/soar unit directly under chief of staff control to be setup. Headcount just 250

Looks like we will get some equivalentbif the sayeret matkal. Hope raw ntro and ib is pulled in also

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby srin » 06 Dec 2018 23:50

Nitin Gokhale interviews Gen. Rawat.


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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Ameet » 07 Dec 2018 00:34

URI trailer. Looks good. Last line sure brings a smile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg8sbRFS3zU

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby souravB » 07 Dec 2018 01:11

^^ crisp, clear and pragmatic interview. clears up many questions on
- IBG formations
- New promotion hierarchy
- Theater command
- Infra development along LAC


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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby rahul_r » 10 Dec 2018 03:33

An awesome piece on the Indian Army.s peacekeeping efforts in Congo by Wion. Do watch!

https://youtu.be/DjGot_pmSak

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Katare » 10 Dec 2018 04:09

Did anyone understood this new policy and how is it different than the existing one? I am completely at loss?

What I understood is that they’ll impanel a set # of suitable full colonels for promotion to rank of major General. Some of these full colonels will directly and immediately move up to the rank of major general and start commanding a division before ever commanding a brigade?

Rest of the impaneled colonels would be promoted to rank of Brigadier and command brigades and in due time some of these will make it to Major General and higher through promotion boards.

So in practice only difference that i can see in new process is that some Colonels would become Major generals at the age of early forties without the experience of ever commanding a brigade.

How does this help with any of the current issues? Number of brigadiers, major general and above posts are fixed by GoI and any change in these numbers would mean other forces would want commonsurate increase in their ranks.

How would this increase promotion prospects for officers is not clear to me either.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Anoop » 11 Dec 2018 01:05

My understanding of new promotion policy is different. The rank of Brigadier becomes a non select rank, so all Cols become assured of retiring as Brigadiers at least. However, not all of them may command Bdes. Those ound fit for Command of Bdes at the time of promotion do so. The others are appointed to BGS at different formations. Among those who commanded Bdes, subsequently get shortlisted for appointments to Div Command or do a rotation to Staff Positions at Corp HQ or higher. So only those who have commanded Bdes will be eligible for command of higher formations. This is what I gathered from the COAS interview.

He clearly states that this is a move to reduce disparity between Army and civilian ranks, though he stops short of calling for parity. In my opinion, this is a very critical necessity. I wonder how the other services will respond and the MoD as well.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Katare » 11 Dec 2018 02:38

Anoop,
Colonel is already a select rank. All officers are assured promotions to Lt Col rank only.

What is clear is that, the move to remove the rank of lieutenant (by assigning it to officer cadet) and Brigadier is to bring down total ranks to seven same as civilian side.

They are also trying to reduce the number of commissioned officers by inducting more JCOs again to improve promotion prospects.

What is not clear to me is this business of jumping a full Col to a major general and how it would help armed forces. Also all select posts starting from Col upwards are fixed so unless you increase that number or come up with something like non-functional financial upgrade (basically promotion without the prestige or responsibilities).


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