India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Vips » 17 Mar 2021 05:56

Massive boost to infra along India-China border; Connectivity on 59 strategically important roads achieved.

On Monday, Defence Minister Rajnath Singh said in Rajya Sabha that connectivity on 59 roads has been achieved along the India-China border. The minister, in a written response to a question, said as many as 61 India-China Border Roads (ICBRs) with a length of 3,323.57 kilometres were identified as strategically important. The work was entrusted to the Border Roads Organisation (BRO), he said. The construction of 42 roads with a length of 1,530.38 kilometres has been completed, the Defence Minister said. On 59 roads of 3,205.16 kilometres in length, connectivity has already been achieved. While on the remaining two roads of 118.41 kilometres length, the unconnected portion is 29 kilometres, he said.

According to a PTI report, in view of the face-off between the militaries of India and China in eastern Ladakh as well as aggressive infrastructure development by China along the border, efforts have been redoubled by India in order to improve connectivity along the frontier.

By this month, 10 ICBR roads are targeted to be completed. While development work on seven roads is likely to be over by the month of March next year and work on another two roads is expected to be over by March 2023, Singh said. In order to expedite the implementation of the road projects, the financial and administrative powers of BRO executives have been enhanced, the minister said.

The Union Minister further stated that out of 61 roads, 27 roads with a length of 1,725.46 kilometres are in the state of Arunachal Pradesh, 12 roads with a length of 1,064.14 kilometres are in Ladakh and 14 roads with a length of 355 kilometres are in the state of Uttarakhand. Also, there are five ICBR roads in Himachal Pradesh of length 116.99 kilometres, while the state of Sikkim has three roads with a length of 61.98 kilometres, Singh said.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby D.Mahesh » 17 Mar 2021 06:50

Pratyush wrote:
vikassh wrote:Came across this interview between Maj Arya and Lt Gen Syed Ata Hasnain....



Lt Gen Syed Ata Hasnain is amongst the wisest men...
I tried to watch the opinion piece by Lt Gen Panag on print channel on youtube... the decline of a man who had served the nation with distinction.


Gen.Panag is Print's advisor. Who runs Print? :roll:

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby D.Mahesh » 17 Mar 2021 06:59

SSridhar wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:Please make it clear that we only want the land and not the people....

We don't event want those lands. These lands, out of Chinese occupation, should act as buffers between China and various nation-states such as us, Myanmar, Russia, the Stan states et al. Of course, Ladakh, Shaksgam, Barahoti are ours and must be restored to us.


China has less arable than does India - even on paper. In reality it may be a lot less.
Been there done that! Not interested
Boxed them in Shanghain in late 19th Century. Before that conquered Lhasa

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby nandakumar » 17 Mar 2021 10:40

D.Mahesh wrote:
Pratyush wrote:
Lt Gen Syed Ata Hasnain is amongst the wisest men...
I tried to watch the opinion piece by Lt Gen Panag on print channel on youtube... the decline of a man who had served the nation with distinction.


Gen.Panag is Print's advisor. Who runs Print? :roll:

It is owned and run by Shekhar Gupta. Initial contributors were:

N.R. Narayana Murthy, Ratan Tata, Nandan Nilekani, Uday Kotak Family, Kiran Mazumdar Shaw, Bangalore-based tech entrepreneur Rajiv C. Mody, Paytm founder Vijay Shekhar Sharma, Chairman, LVMH Asia Ravi Thakran, IIFL founders Nirmal Jain, R. Venkataraman, Karan Bhagat and Yatin Shah are eminent investors in the venture.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Cyrano » 17 Mar 2021 16:46

Shekar Gupta seems to have come around to some extent in the last couple of years. He is still very much riddled with lefty SDRE cognitive dissonance though, and I doubt if he will ever get rid of it, just like his verbal diarrhoea. Its a torture to hear him speak.

The investors you cite are sitting on mountains of wealth and fund all kinds of ventures. What they would have put into the Print is pocket change. Doesn't mean they endorse Gupta' view points. As some one who personally knows a few of them, I can assure you their heart is in the right place.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby RajaRudra » 17 Mar 2021 17:27

Cyrano wrote:Shekar Gupta seems to have come around to some extent in the last couple of years. He is still very much riddled with lefty SDRE cognitive dissonance though, and I doubt if he will ever get rid of it, just like his verbal diarrhoea. Its a torture to hear him speak.

The investors you cite are sitting on mountains of wealth and fund all kinds of ventures. What they would have put into the Print is pocket change. Doesn't mean they endorse Gupta' view points. As some one who personally knows a few of them, I can assure you their heart is in the right place.


There was an interview by the coupta many moons ago, in which he is advising congress to accept/appreciate wherever the policy success of BJP cannot be blocked/suppresseed by giving bad mouthing and there by gaining the peoples trust(much like the dog owner gains trust of its pet with treats), so that whenever there is an iota of doubt congress can make that issue a big deal and slander the govt big time.

He seams to be putting this into action in the print and videos now. He is a snake and he will be a snake always. I do go through the videos(some times) but will make sure i will close my ears to all the negatives he silently vent out.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby ramana » 18 Mar 2021 03:11

RajaRudra wrote:
Cyrano wrote:Shekar Gupta seems to have come around to some extent in the last couple of years. He is still very much riddled with lefty SDRE cognitive dissonance though, and I doubt if he will ever get rid of it, just like his verbal diarrhoea. Its a torture to hear him speak.

The investors you cite are sitting on mountains of wealth and fund all kinds of ventures. What they would have put into the Print is pocket change. Doesn't mean they endorse Gupta' view points. As some one who personally knows a few of them, I can assure you their heart is in the right place.


There was an interview by the coupta many moons ago, in which he is advising congress to accept/appreciate wherever the policy success of BJP cannot be blocked/suppresseed by giving bad mouthing and there by gaining the peoples trust(much like the dog owner gains trust of its pet with treats), so that whenever there is an iota of doubt congress can make that issue a big deal and slander the govt big time.

He seems to be putting this into action in the print and videos now. He is a snake and he will be a snake always. I do go through the videos(some times) but will make sure i will close my ears to all the negatives he silently vent out.


Cyrano, Follow the money. Anyone who has heart in the right place won't invest in Coupta. It is funding a center for Opposition to BJP. All those investors have a track record of that, claiming to be liberal.
So please spare us this.

RR, good catch. Coupta has gone beyond journalism and is a political adviser under the guise of journalism to save his behind.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby shyamd » 23 Mar 2021 22:56

Years of effort coming to fruition. UAE twisted Bajwa's hand and told him to behave. TSP was within a week of bankruptcy

Secret India-Pakistan Peace Roadmap Brokered by Top UAE Royals

Also note UAE is working on interoperability with IN outlined in previous posts and were ready to provide their excess capacity of transport fleet in the recent border confrontation with china.

Lots more covert cooperation happening.

TSP have become more isolated and are looking for new friends...

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby yensoy » 24 Mar 2021 08:39

^^^^ I have to ask... what's in it for UAE to help us? Brokering the ceasefire with Pakis I can understand but why would they volunteer their resources against China?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby V_Raman » 24 Mar 2021 09:11

this is a big strategic realignment. India might finally be becoming the protector for ME - which is its natural position - given the geography. India will soon be the largest consumer of oil/natural gas in the world pretty soon and will be in that position for some time. With good domestic MIC - we can supply to ME alongside Massa. Exactly what massa did for getting petro dollar back.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby YashG » 24 Mar 2021 09:44

The Islamic kingdom is trying to realign itself towards a less US dominated world but they can't see China as a natural pole; Uyghurs. After half a century it has also dawned that the Islamic Ummah isn't a viable organisational framework like EU. Vis-a-vis India is one of the safer places for muslims; India remains safer for muslims than many ME countries and many prominent muslim NRIs have overtime have reflected India in good light.

Ofcourse there are reasons beyond these too.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Prasad » 24 Mar 2021 22:26

UAE has 3 A330 tankers.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Rakesh » 24 Mar 2021 22:32

yensoy wrote:^^^^ I have to ask... what's in it for UAE to help us? Brokering the ceasefire with Pakis I can understand but why would they volunteer their resources against China?

YashG has raised some excellent points in his post. Kudos to him.

India is any day the better bet over Pakistan, financially and politically.

Pakistan's very existence is because of China and baksheesh from America. India is anything but.

For the UAE, there is money to be made in India. UAE will be making a sound investment in India.

The UAE is reading the tea leaves just fine. Kudos to the Modi Govt for making this happen.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby YashG » 26 Mar 2021 18:20


China Makes It A Crime To Question Military Casualties On The Internet



"If the four [Chinese] soldiers died trying to rescue their fellow soldiers, then there must have been those who were not successfully rescued," he wrote on Feb. 19 to his 2.5 million followers on Weibo, a Chinese social media site. "This means the fatalities could not have just been four."

The day after, Qiu Ziming, the 38-year-old former newspaper journalist behind the blog, was detained and criminally charged. If convicted, he faces a sentence of up to three years.




https://www.npr.org/2021/03/22/979350003/china-makes-it-a-crime-to-question-a-military-death-toll-on-the-internet

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby shyamd » 28 Mar 2021 23:39

Rakesh wrote:
yensoy wrote:^^^^ I have to ask... what's in it for UAE to help us? Brokering the ceasefire with Pakis I can understand but why would they volunteer their resources against China?

YashG has raised some excellent points in his post. Kudos to him.

India is any day the better bet over Pakistan, financially and politically.

Pakistan's very existence is because of China and baksheesh from America. India is anything but.

For the UAE, there is money to be made in India. UAE will be making a sound investment in India.

The UAE is reading the tea leaves just fine. Kudos to the Modi Govt for making this happen.

Few bits I'll add

geography - India can dominate the sea lanes of communication and we are powerful enough to prevent TSP from supporting GCC. India is a major customer for Iran their biggest rival.

Second thing I'd say is that TSPA has been busy cheating them... When they called for help TSPA were not there...

Third, they have realised TSPA creates problems with India through terror then run to the GCC for money to fight off India (e.g. 26/11)... Gulf are fed up.

Overall there is a general loss of trust.


--------------------------------
South Korean Defence Minister Witnesses Exercise By Indian Army Paratroopers

GOI actually displayed air drop of a battalion (circa 700-800 troops alongside all hardware like engineering, artillery, armoured vehicles etc) and showcased the full capacity available which is kept quiet. The number quoted in the article is 80....

-----------------------------------
Overall border tensions are still high despite ceasefire with TSP and disengagement with PLA. Posture isn't going to change.

Intel is that TSPA has kept terrorists in forward launchpads. IA/BSF are still conducting operations.

At the strategic level GOI/PRC are trying to establish a hotline between the civilian leadership (as opposed to military level which has been reported previously.

IAF is busy sharpening the knife for use across the border if need be.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby csharma » 29 Mar 2021 00:44

shyamd, what caused PRC to disengage at Pangong? Isn't that a loss of face for them? Will there be full disengagement? India is taking clear steps in favor of quad.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby shyamd » 29 Mar 2021 02:05

Thank you for your question and interest. My response below

what caused PRC to disengage at Pangong?
It's resolved due to covert diplomacy between India, Russia and China. See my post on it. IA was clear from the start - it won't be resolved at military level.

Also I don't think China planned well for it (because they weren't expecting the sort of response from India).

Next one might be different.

Isn't that a loss of face for them?
Not really. they are 'spinning' it with their people, GOI is doing the same with ours.

Will there be full disengagement?
Not until covert negotiations bear fruit. There's a tonne of detail that the press won't talk but talks are complicated in some sectors. It won't change anything.

India is taking clear steps in favor of quad
Definitely but it'll take a long post to explain the true strategic position of India. The real goal of GOI is to uplift the nation economically.

-----------------------------------------
India Navy participates with US navy in PASSEX in Eastern Indian Ocean Region
In a first, enhancing Jointmanship, Indian Air Force fighters were also included in the Exercise affording IAF an opportunity to practice Air Interception / Air Defence with US Navy close to Indian Coast.


Just to demonstrate interoperability and integration.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby williams » 29 Mar 2021 02:42

Let us just get real. Pakis are not going to renounce the Jihadis. That just means throwing the towel for Paki's. Never going to happen in a echendee infested Paki fauj. They are just waiting for a chance to start it again. Indian agencies combined with IA fire assaults in the border has made them go for cease fire. IA agreed since there is nothing in our side to cease. Now the WCC gang is trying to leak all sorts of fake news to create an atmosphere that Pakis are ready for peace. How can UAE which is in a puny category when it comes to global geopolitical power houses can broker anything. India buys oil from ME so does China, EU and US. Geography that did not yield anything before, cannot yield something drastic suddenly.

From Indian POV we cannot have peace until POK is in our control. For that we need active policy to bring Paki fauj to the knees by balkanizing Pakistan. Until then there is not going to be any peace. India should just focus on its economy and a real muscular MIC. We have made a good start but it is a long way to go. Until then this cycle of Pakis looking for peace after getting nice treatment in the border will continue.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby csharma » 29 Mar 2021 09:22

Vijay Gokhale's recent paper shows that India China issue is not resolved. China's wants India to bracket the boundary issue and bring political issues back to how they were prior to May 2020. India has publicly said it can't do that. So, it is quite possible we can go back to conflict on the LAC.

Coming upto Finger 4, creating a map of China in the F4-F8 area and then going back and destroying the map as well seems like a climbdown to me.

China so far has not (maybe on purpose) has not treated as a major power. It is likely to not do it in the future. But if India closes the door on China, quite likely India will lose Russia as well. And US will not abandon Pak. And Russia will come to Pakistan's side. Difficult situation for India

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby SSridhar » 29 Mar 2021 09:51

shyamd wrote:
Rakesh wrote:YashG has raised some excellent points in his post. Kudos to him.

India is any day the better bet over Pakistan, financially and politically.

Pakistan's very existence is because of China and baksheesh from America. India is anything but.

For the UAE, there is money to be made in India. UAE will be making a sound investment in India.

The UAE is reading the tea leaves just fine. Kudos to the Modi Govt for making this happen.

Few bits I'll add

geography - India can dominate the sea lanes of communication and we are powerful enough to prevent TSP from supporting GCC. India is a major customer for Iran their biggest rival.

Second thing I'd say is that TSPA has been busy cheating them... When they called for help TSPA were not there...

Third, they have realised TSPA creates problems with India through terror then run to the GCC for money to fight off India (e.g. 26/11)... Gulf are fed up.

Overall there is a general loss of trust.

In my opinion, I would say 'security' is what is driving the UAE, apart from all the other points made above.

There was a time when the UAE was the safe-haven for all our terrorists and cheats with TSP manipulating the rulers there through various inducements, but those days are long gone as wisdom dawned on these Arabs with the loss of oil income and the emergence of a strong Indian economy and military.

There are three axes of powers at interplay in the region, the Arab axis (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait, Bahrain), the Qatar-Turkey-Pakistan-Malaysia axis (with Qatar-Turkey opposed to the leading Islamic power centre, Saudi Arabia, with Turkey wanting to assume the Caliph's role yet again) and the Iran axis (with its Shia power and the Hezbollah militants). China is playing a deep game while ostensibly remaining neutral. Its 400 B investment in Iran and its overall support for Iran's nuclear program must be causing resentment within the Arab Axis. The US has been trying to close the gaps wherever there is potential for Chinese mischief thereby creating a solid bloc against Iran (for the comfort of the Sunni Arab states) and China (for its own geopolitical and geostrategic superiority). That's the reason for the Abrahamic Accords and the USA trying to broker peace between KSA and Qatar too.

The various Islamist Terrorist groups have taken a toll on the Arab Axis and their re-emergence needs to be cauterized. TSP is the epicenter.

The emerging contours of Cold War 2.0 (however much it could be denied) are apparent. It is not paradigmed on the 1.0 principles but there are a lot of similarities and the entrenched enmities and insecurities would dictate the grouping though on the surface it might appear to be different. The common enemy of Israel would be considered so by all Muslim states, but temporally, the Sunni Arab States have united to eliminate challenge to their own regimes from the Shia sect before they take on the common enemy.

In the Qatar-Turkey-Pakistan-Malaysia axis, Pakistan is the weakest link that can be swayed by the Arab Axis not only because of its extremely poor economy and internal political situation, but also because of its long-standing relationship with the Arabs and the large expatriate community in these countries. The idea is to weaken the QTPM alliance by pricing away Pakistan by dangling the re-engagement with India carrot to its face. The US would also like to lessen the Chinese influence in TSP. India might also feel the same. Then, there is the question of Afghanistan as well.

Here is where India has to be careful. We have a rapidly growing economic and military relationship with the Arab Axis. Due to our deepening military relationship with the US, our naval involvement with the Fifth Fleet is also growing. Though not as extensive as with the Indo-Pac Command, our relationship with the Centcom is also deepening. Since our PM has already said that India's interests extend from the eastern shores of Africa to the Indo-Pacific, this development is but natural. However, we have always opposed any third party acting as a mediator. This government, especially, would circumscribe the role that UAE can play in any rapprochement. That expectation hopefully would have been made clear to UAE so that its exuberance, if any, is curtailed.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby nam » 29 Mar 2021 14:15

Our 2nd front threat is going all gung ho towards Western countries with full on wolf warrior "diplomacy". :D

We are so lucky to have such an adversary. CCP mouthpieces in the western press are out in force calling for "dialogue".

Our favorite paper GT has even threatened sanctions against Quad countries.. cannot wait for it. :D

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby shyamd » 29 Mar 2021 16:01

Posting here because this is critical for future operations.. I'm surprised this isn't getting enough attention.
DRDO successfully demonstrates quantum communication between two labs
Secure communications are vital for defence and strategic agencies world over and distribution of encryption keys from time to time is an important requirement in this context... quantum based communication offers a robust solution to sharing the keys securely,” said an official statement.


Defence Minister Rajnath Singh congratulated the DRDO for successful demonstration of QKD-based communication between its two labs in Hyderabad, said the statement.

The Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL) and The Research Centre Imarat (RCI) were the two labs that participated in this demonstration.

“Quantum Communication using the time-bin QKD scheme was performed under realistic conditions. The setup also demonstrated the validation of detection of a third party trying to gain knowledge of the communication,” the statement added.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby shyamd » 09 Apr 2021 02:14

It looks like UAE wasn't the only party involved in the ceasefire negotiations. Russia also involved in brokering the deal I am told - Russia dealing directly with Bajwa. Article below after his visit to Delhi he went to TSP and met TSPA chief.

Russia ready to supply military equipment to Pakistan, hold more drills: Lavrov

Russia stands ready to supply special military equipment to Pakistan to strengthen its counter-terrorism capabilities, Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov said on Wednesday as Islamabad rolled out the red carpet for the visiting leader.

Lavrov, who travelled to Islamabad from New Delhi, also spoke of Russia’s plans to conduct more military and naval exercises with Pakistan and to further deepen bilateral ties. Lavrov also met Pakistan Army chief Gen Qamar Bajwa and Prime Minister Imran Khan, who raised the Kashmir issue during their talks.

Foreign minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi personally received Lavrov – the first senior Russian leader to travel to Pakistan in almost a decade – at the airport on his arrival on Tuesday, signalling the importance attached to the visit by Islamabad.

“We’ve confirmed that we stand ready to strengthen the anti-terrorist potential of Pakistan, including by supplying Pakistan with special military equipment. This serves the interests of all states of the region,” Lavrov said during a joint news conference with Qureshi after their meeting on Wednesday.

“We also agreed that we need to further conduct exercises and drills in the mountains called Druzhba (friendship) and maritime exercises called the Arabian Monsoon,” he added.

The Druzbha exercise between the Pakistani and Russian militaries, which began in 2016, usually features special forces from both sides. A Russian Army contingent visited Pakistan last November for the latest edition of the drill.

Russia had angered India by supplying a limited number of Mi-35M helicopter gunships to Pakistan in 2018. Lavrov’s comments about potential supplies of special military equipment, even to bolster Pakistan’s counter-terrorism capabilities, are unlikely to go down well in New Delhi, which perceives such arms deals as a provocation.

Without directly referring to the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue that includes India, Australia, Japan and the US, Lavrov took a swipe at US-backed strategies that he said were affecting stability in the Asia-Pacific region. Lavrov has been critical of the Indo-Pacific concept, which is the focus of the Quad.

This after Russia via Lavrov was trying to convince GOI to drop the MQ-9 Reaper deal including saying they will get access to Russian data links used by IN.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby ArjunPandit » 09 Apr 2021 05:45

Rakesh wrote:
yensoy wrote:^^^^ I have to ask... what's in it for UAE to help us? Brokering the ceasefire with Pakis I can understand but why would they volunteer their resources against China?

YashG has raised some excellent points in his post. Kudos to him.

India is any day the better bet over Pakistan, financially and politically.

Pakistan's very existence is because of China and baksheesh from America. India is anything but.

For the UAE, there is money to be made in India. UAE will be making a sound investment in India.

The UAE is reading the tea leaves just fine. Kudos to the Modi Govt for making this happen.

what I would like to hilight is that india has
1. been fairly reliable and consistent/evolutionary in approach & FP matters with no abrupt policy changes like US
2. has stood behind those it supported: Maldives, Bhutan. Excluding SL
3. Dismembered paxtan and paxtan made no headway even with afghan style terrorism in kashmir and punjab...losers get sympathy not respect ..
4. historical relations
i would not read too much, it is just a marriage of convenience. Make hay while the sun shines.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Yagnasri » 09 Apr 2021 08:11

Russians messed up big time this time. Why do they want to supply things to Pakis who can not pay them anything? That too at the cost of angering Bharat.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby SSridhar » 09 Apr 2021 09:01

Yagnasri wrote:Russians messed up big time this time. Why do they want to supply things to Pakis who can not pay them anything? That too at the cost of angering Bharat.

May be the Chinese are paying them to damage the India-Russia relationship. China would gain enormously.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Yagnasri » 09 Apr 2021 09:15

Russians may not be also not adjusted to more powerful and assertive Bharat. We having learned by the purchase of that Aircraft carrier and what has followed after that and all the other previous experiences seem to have become wiser. They should have learned that when we back off from SU 57 drama they played with us. But looks like they have not.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby VickyAvinash » 09 Apr 2021 15:02

Russia will continue to sing conciliatory tones to Pak as India moves more and more into US camp by buying US weapons. All is quid pro quo. However, bear is wise enough not to sell anything of substantial military importance to Pakistan. Just enough to poke us a bit as a reminder to stay along or else.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Vips » 10 Apr 2021 03:20

Yagnasri wrote:Russians messed up big time this time. Why do they want to supply things to Pakis who can not pay them anything? That too at the cost of angering Bharat.


Just to give one example Pakistan wants to buy 50,000 AK 103 (they had put a request last year) from Russia, while the deal with India is for 750,000 rifles. A very difficult choice for Russia to make :lol:

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby SSridhar » 11 Apr 2021 09:05

No Breakthrough in India-China Military Dialogue on Disengagement in Eastern Ladakh - ToI
There was no breakthrough yet again in the marathon military talks between India and China on Friday, with the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) digging in its heels on even completing the stalled troop disengagement process in eastern Ladakh as a step towards the proposed de-escalation along the frontier.

The sheer lack of any forward movement in the 11thround of the corps commander-level talks, which itself came 50 days after the last one, was also evident in the fact that India and China did not issue a joint statement this time unlike the previous rounds.

Sources said “no action plan could be finalized” for completing the partial troop disengagement at Gogra, Hot Springs and Demchok, let alone any progress on the far more intractable issue of blocking of Indian patrols in the strategically-located Depsang Plains, during the 13-hour military dialogue at Chushul on Friday.

“PLA did not agree to troop pullback from the friction sites at patrolling points (PPs) 15, 17 and 17A in the Hot Springs-Gogra-Kongka La area, where it is also maintaining considerable strength in the rear areas. De-escalation at Depsang is nowhere on the horizon,” said a source.

The Indian statement on Saturday noted that in the context of both sides agreeing on the need to resolve issues, “it was highlighted that completion of disengagement in other areas would pave the way for two sides to consider de-escalation of forces and ensure full restoration of peace and tranquility and enable progress in bilateral relations”.

The rival corps commanders, of course, will meet again after consulting their respective political-military hierarchies. “The two sides agreed on the need to resolve the outstanding issues in an expeditious manner in accordance with the existing agreements and protocols,” said the defence ministry statement.

The two delegations, led by 14 Corps commander Lt-General P G K Menon and South Xinjiang Military District chief Major General Liu Lin, also agreed to continue to “jointly maintain stability on the ground, avoid any new incidents and jointly maintain peace in the border areas”.

“The two sides agreed that it was important to take guidance from the consensus of their leaders, continue their communication and dialogue and work towards a mutually acceptable resolution of the remaining issues at the earliest,” it added.

The lack of progress in the talks is likely to reinforce major concerns that India should have used its major bargaining leverage of occupying the Kailash range heights to extract some concessions from China in Depsang Plains, instead of squandering it for just disengagement in the “Finger” area on the north bank of Pangong Tso in February.

But the government contention is that the “pressing and immediate priority” then was to ensure that the eyeball-to-eyeball troop confrontation on both sides of Pangong Tso, with tanks and howitzers also facing each other, did not lead to any inadvertent vertical escalation.

The “Finger” area intrusion was also seen as the most serious of Chinese transgressions. Moreover, the Depsang issue is a lingering problem since 2013, which has to be tackled separately, it said.

Just a fortnight ago, Army chief General M M Naravanehad himself warned that the “threat has only abated” with the successful troop disengagement on both sides of Pangong Tso, but “not gone away altogether” since the PLA was still maintaining its considerable troop strength in the “rear areas” as before. “De-escalation will take place only when these elements go back to their garrisons,” he had said.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby RKumar » 11 Apr 2021 14:25

The two delegations, led by 14 Corps commander Lt-General P G K Menon and South Xinjiang Military District chief Major General Liu Lin, also agreed to continue to “jointly maintain stability on the ground, avoid any new incidents and jointly maintain peace in the border areas”.


Chinese have already occupied our land if we don’t make any movement why they should move back? As summer approaches, Chinese will again move at the border in larger numbers.

India is preparing for next round of covid n border tensions.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby shyamd » 11 Apr 2021 23:05

Ball back in NSA/MEA court. It looks like the talks went worse than expected...

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby nam » 11 Apr 2021 23:20

Good to hear that talks went all downhill. It will be summer soon, no harm in deploying force in the areas like depsang.

If PLA does counter deployment, we move once again in to the kailash range. And start sanctioning chini companies.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby shyamd » 12 Apr 2021 00:42

Just wanted to share my thoughts about where we go next in India - China:

1) Russia/India/China covert talks to hash out some agreement. I think the Lavrov talks didn't go that well either. In exchange for TSPA ceasefire and withdrawal I wonder if Russia demanded or demanding some more from GOI.

2) In any case GOI and PLA will be preparing for next winter which is only 6 months away. PLA will make sure their forces are better equipped than last time.

3) Fine tune summer plans. A division has been assigned to 17 Mountain Strike Corps.

Armed forces have been busy fine tuning integration in C2, rules of engagement and preparation - these need to be tested now. Major JOINT exercises will be held shortly between IAF, IA, ITBP and others - https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/i ... 2021-04-06

It looks like there will be a continuation of small battles. Speed, mobility and integrated/acclimitised forces in numbers will be critical

On the TSPA border - nothing has really changed other than the ceasefire. GOI will follow similar strategy to last year except that some new lethal tools have been brought in to enhance effectiveness. I predict some major action by GOI if ceasefire is broken.

4) GOI will have to put the Agni and STRATEGIC assets in operational mode and get them deployed in key areas. The message to Beijing (as in Jan 2021) was that if you try any aggressive act prepare to lose your industrial cities. More missiles will be deployed close to the border (Vajpayee model).

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby RKumar » 12 Apr 2021 02:13

^ Read somewhere aag paanch deployment is underway.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Vips » 13 Apr 2021 03:32

SSridhar wrote:
Yagnasri wrote:Russians messed up big time this time. Why do they want to supply things to Pakis who can not pay them anything? That too at the cost of angering Bharat.

May be the Chinese are paying them to damage the India-Russia relationship. China would gain enormously.


In the future China may finance some hardware purchase for Pakistan to get access to critical technology which Russia would otherwise be reluctant to sell to China.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Rishirishi » 13 Apr 2021 06:54

Yagnasri wrote:Russians messed up big time this time. Why do they want to supply things to Pakis who can not pay them anything? That too at the cost of angering Bharat.


I think it is a way to communicate "If you Indians stop buying our stuff, we will sell it to Pakistan" . Indians of course know, that TSP cant pay for the much. :rotfl: so it becomes a hollow threat.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby yensoy » 13 Apr 2021 08:20

RKumar wrote:^ Read somewhere aag paanch deployment is underway.

You may have aag paanch or whatever but you still need to put your handkerchief on your seat if you want a place to sit. While strategic assets will have their own deployment timeline, the first response to grab critical positions is what matters in this case.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Aditya_V » 13 Apr 2021 12:55

Can anyone tell what is this particular PLA camp in the Galwan valley, google maps location 34.65917976571199, 78.6022336289784 34°39'30.2"N 78°36'13.0"E

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Prem Kumar » 13 Apr 2021 13:35

I am happy if there is constant tension @ the LAC. That will mean more indigenous weapon systems testing by DRDO & ordering by the MoD/Forces. We need a little, constant fire under our asses all the time to not fall into chai-biskoot habits or indulge in import-fetishes


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