Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

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Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby Rakesh » 12 Apr 2021 06:35

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 80288?s=20 ---> Leasing season in Indian military:

- IAF planning to lease aerial refuellers & basic trainer aircrafts.

- Indian Navy wants to lease minesweepers, tanker ships & utility helicopters.

- Indian Army to lease advanced MALE UAVs.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby Cain Marko » 12 Apr 2021 12:02

^ seems like a smart move - everything but the trainers perhaps...it is the speed with which leased equipment can be inducted that makes it worthwhile (not to mention affordability in the short term).

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby Pratyush » 12 Apr 2021 12:50

What happens when the lease expires?

What is the cost of leasing as opposed to an outright purchase of the asset?

Has any analysis of costing done for leasing as opposed to an out right purchase?

What is the provision for the use of Agents and intermediaries in such lease?

What are the opportunities for rent seeking in such lease for babu's?

these are the things I need to know.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby Cain Marko » 12 Apr 2021 13:17

Pratyush wrote:What happens when the lease expires?

What is the cost of leasing as opposed to an outright purchase of the asset?

Has any analysis of costing done for leasing as opposed to an out right purchase?

What is the provision for the use of Agents and intermediaries in such lease?

What are the opportunities for rent seeking in such lease for babu's?

these are the things I need to know.

You'll probably never get exact answers. But my best guess is that leasing is the only option left when a byzantine bureaucracy and 10 years of negligence has caused horrible procurement gaps. The enemy is now at the door and even lead times of 3 years for production are sounding like too long. The need is far more urgent than 3 years.
At the very least some refuellers, possibly even AEW, minesweepers and choppers are needed - just to be able to use frontline hardware optimally. NOt that long term procurement can be substituted by lease but short-term preparation can be somewhat achieved.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby sankum » 12 Apr 2021 13:25

Funny part. They will not buy Dhruv but lease Panther.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby Pratyush » 12 Apr 2021 14:51

sankum wrote:Funny part. They will not buy Dhruv but lease Panther.


This has scam written all over it. We have to sort out our babudom or we will never be able to attain strategic autonomy. The armed forces have to be told in no uncertain terms. Make do with what you have or items available through domestic industry.

NO MORE IMPORTS/ OR LEASES.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby shyamd » 12 Apr 2021 15:02

^^ They have been told that. Imports are only permitted where there is a critical need these days.

The nat sec establishment including the top of the forces are clear - imports are unaffordable and they MUST support local industry but this needs to be balanced with urgent operational requirements and having overmatch against adversary capabilities in some areas.

Domestic industry have issues that need fixing as well. Media isn't laying out all the facts.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby Pratyush » 12 Apr 2021 15:04

Cain Marko wrote:You'll probably never get exact answers. But my best guess is that leasing is the only option left when a byzantine bureaucracy and 10 years of negligence has caused horrible procurement gaps. The enemy is now at the door and even lead times of 3 years for production are sounding like too long. The need is far more urgent than 3 years.
At the very least some refuellers, possibly even AEW, minesweepers and choppers are needed - just to be able to use frontline hardware optimally. NOt that long term procurement can be substituted by lease but short-term preparation can be somewhat achieved.


The worst part is as follows.

1000s of aircrafts are heading for the scrap yard due to covid related slump and can be purchased relatively cheaply and quickly converted to tankers and AEWs and airborn command posts. The French will do exactly the same and charge the cost of a new build item for the lease and we will pay happily.

Minesweepers are an even less comprehensible mess. Why??

1)The ability to build GRP hulls is available within the country for small civilian crafts. But no one in the last 20 years has bothered to find ways to scale up this capability for the construction of ocean going vessels.
2) even if ocean going GRP vessels cannot be built in India. The navy could have thought in terms of building large ocean going mother ships for small GRP crafts having 7 to 15 endurance days carrying minesweeping gear.

Choppers??

LUH is mature.
The ALH had some issues with the blade folding mechanism, discussed on the forum about 10 years ago. It could not be fixed in 10 years?? Why??
If a 10 ton choppers needed. Get a new build chopper. Either the MH60 or the NH90. No leases.
Last edited by Pratyush on 12 Apr 2021 15:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby Pratyush » 12 Apr 2021 15:11

shyamd wrote:^^ They have been told that. Imports are only permitted where there is a critical need these days.

The nat sec establishment including the top of the forces are clear - imports are unaffordable and they MUST support local industry but this needs to be balanced with urgent operational requirements and having overmatch against adversary capabilities in some areas.

Domestic industry have issues that need fixing as well. Media isn't laying out all the facts.


The domestic industry issues can be resolved with handholding from service's and various DRDO labs. The challenges are not insurmountable.

The nearest thing that comes to mind is small arms. INSAS is an Indian design, whose IP is owned by MOD. Dozens of Indian PVT companies have licenses to build small arms. Hand the design to these companies specify the performance criteria for weapons and have the companies tinker with it to come up with derivative designs. In different calibers. Maybe 3 or 4 will succeed in doing this and come up with acceptable derivatives of the weapons in any caliber chosen by the Army.

But it doesn't get done.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby shyamd » 12 Apr 2021 16:08

Depends what the issues are.

Non-payment of dues to suppliers? (payment terms are 90 to 180 days in some cases) Maybe fixable but Fin Min has to help.

Employees sleeping instead of working on the job at a PSU and asking armed forces to pay for this time? (Fixable? - Dunno).

Both are true stories...

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby srai » 12 Apr 2021 18:05

...

But my best guess is that leasing is the only option left when a byzantine bureaucracy and 10 years of negligence has caused horrible procurement gaps. The enemy is now at the door and even lead times of 3 years for production are sounding like too long. The need is far more urgent than 3 years.

...


New concept being tried through the same bureaucracy. Let’s see how long it will take to sign the leases :P

Here is how I see it happen: 3-years will go by in pursuit of stop-gap leasing while viable domestic orders remain on-hold. In Indian context, it’s often the case of either-or as funding is limited. In 3-years, there will be nothing left to show for it. History repeating itself.

Lesson here is when domestic product is ready, order in bulk in multi-year contracts. Not in piecemeal fashion. That’s one way to overcome bureaucracy. Contract to signature may take its usual glacial pace but once signed bulk domestic orders executed deliver a steady supply over a prolonged period. Enough time to R&D Mk.2 and sign a new bulk contract.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby mody » 13 Apr 2021 18:53

The funny part is that the services are saying they will prefer to lease new build systems only and not used ones!!!!
How can this help with the timeline. This also opens up a backdoor getting platforms like the Panther in place of the ALH for the NUH requirement. Sign a lease agreement for say 20 nos, new build ones at that and then based on the performance, say why a different system is required. The life cycle cost will be much higher then buying domestic systems.

For buying the latest western ware, the argument is that the life cycle cost will be lower. But for domestic equipment, where the life cycle cost will be much much lower, the same argument is never used.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby Philip » 13 Apr 2021 21:44

Prat,I know a boat-builder,pioneer of GRP boats in the country who for sev. years has delivered ribs,etc. to the IN and CG.But ask him about the torturous path it takes to get an order,payment, etc. He's v.lukewarm these days about orders for the GOI. ! I personally know of another attempt by a firang/Ind. venture to prove the IN/CG with cutting edge vessel tech. used by the USN too. Babudom is so behind the times in Delhi tech. wise and could hardly understand what was being offered,the best of its class in the world.Sev. major shipyards both state and pvt. were v.impressed ,wanted to build the same but said that the MOD first had to hand out orders. After a year's fruitless effort,the JV co. was closed.

Now leasing,why can't we as stated by many lease used vessels,subs,etc. in good condition? The Chakra lease is the best case in point. Modernised and has been giving us excellent service. A second Akula,which will in effect be a new sub is under construction. We meed MCMs, hundreds of naval helos,etc. AS stated in an above post,let a small qty. first be leased,then new built ones replace them.We did exactly that with the Jaguars,and Sukhoi-30 deals if you remember,the first sqds. returned after new ones were ready. So leasing is nothing new.I said the same years ago about the Rafale too.
2 sqds. immediately leased before new-built ones arrived.I cannot fathom why the IAF, which did it twice before NEVER exercised this option for the MMRCA deal! by now,we would've been fully familiar with the Rafale,it could've been used in the Balakot strike and aftermath, and the Chins would've perhaps thought twice before launching their Galwan gambit. This option of leasing is still available for the IAF to lease another 2 sqds. of Rafales since we don't have another $8B in hand for another 36.

I am not sure whether conv. subs on lease from Ru are still avaialable.In the aftermath of the SRakshak disaster,we were supposedly offered the lease of a few Kilos. Given the slow pace of building conv. subs at home,we could still explore that possibility if only to keep numbers healthy,but far better if extra N-subs were leased until our desi-built SSNs ,which will not arrive in this decade,appear post-2030.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby Vips » 14 Apr 2021 04:39

mody wrote:The funny part is that the services are saying they will prefer to lease new build systems only and not used ones!!!!
How can this help with the timeline. This also opens up a backdoor getting platforms like the Panther in place of the ALH for the NUH requirement. Sign a lease agreement for say 20 nos, new build ones at that and then based on the performance, say why a different system is required. The life cycle cost will be much higher then buying domestic systems.

For buying the latest western ware, the argument is that the life cycle cost will be lower. But for domestic equipment, where the life cycle cost will be much much lower, the same argument is never used.


The idea of leasing helicopters will be interesting to see and will bring in play the equation of Buy vs Lease. Per a defence AV Price quoted by companies (including fleet owners like Pawan Hans and airline leasing companies) for the Heli's so far has been from Rs 40 Lakhs to Rs 3.5 crore per bird per month.

GOI then brought in a rule that only original manufacturers will be qualifies to participate in the program.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby Rakesh » 20 Apr 2021 04:58

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/138 ... 56930?s=20 ---> BREAKING: Indian Navy seizes narcotics worth >$400 MILLION (Rs 3,000 crore!) in the Arabian Sea. Patrol vessel INS Suvarna encountered suspicious fishing vessel. Boarding & search op uncovered 300 kg of narcotics. Boat & crew escorted Kochi for further investigation.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby Rakesh » 20 Apr 2021 05:00

https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/13 ... 69217?s=20 ---> NARCOS, Indian Navy edition. Photo here of $400 million worth narcotics haul intercepted by @IndianNavy in the Arabian Sea today.

https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/13 ... 26528?s=20 ---> For those wondering where this narcotics haul came from, likely originated from Balochistan's Makaran coast. Details in this map released by the Indian Navy.

https://twitter.com/VBUPIND/status/1384 ... 21130?s=20 ---> Sad news for Pakistan. Their economy was just beginning to improve.

https://twitter.com/VBUPIND/status/1384 ... 21800?s=20 ---> No delivery of maal..no payment...!

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby Rakesh » 23 Apr 2021 00:00

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 89731?s=20 ---> Indian Navy’s Deep Submergence Rescue Vessel (DSRV) has been sent to support the Indonesian Navy in search & rescue efforts for their missing Type-209/1300 submarine with 53 persons onboard.

https://twitter.com/airnewsalerts/statu ... 61792?s=20 --> The Indian Navy dispatches its Deep Submergence Rescue Vessel (DSRV) to assist Tentara Nasional Indonesia-AngkatanLaut, TNI AL - Indonesian Navy in search and rescue efforts for the Indonesian Submarine KRI Nanggala which was reported missing yesterday.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby Rakesh » 23 Apr 2021 00:03

https://twitter.com/rajatpTOI/status/13 ... 21441?s=20 ---> The Indian DSRV has a side-scan sonar for locating the position of the disabled submarine, providing immediate relief by way of posting Emergency Life Support Containers with the help of Remotely Operated Vehicle & thereafter rescuing the crew of the sub using the DSRV itself.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby Rakesh » 23 Apr 2021 00:13

https://twitter.com/rajatpTOI/status/13 ... 99177?s=20 ---> Defence Minister Rajnath Singh who spoke his Indonesian counterpart General Prabowo Subianto, has also tasked IAF to see the feasibility of induction of the DSRV system by air.

https://twitter.com/ThingsNavy/status/1 ... 80576?s=20 --->

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby Philip » 23 Apr 2021 15:26

It should be air transportable to save time.Oxygen in a trapped sub iwithout power s limited .in fact global majors should develop an air droppable rescue system that can provide emergency assistance until larger rescue vessels arrive.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby chetak » 23 Apr 2021 16:22

Pratyush wrote:
shyamd wrote:^^ They have been told that. Imports are only permitted where there is a critical need these days.

The nat sec establishment including the top of the forces are clear - imports are unaffordable and they MUST support local industry but this needs to be balanced with urgent operational requirements and having overmatch against adversary capabilities in some areas.

Domestic industry have issues that need fixing as well. Media isn't laying out all the facts.


The domestic industry issues can be resolved with handholding from service's and various DRDO labs. The challenges are not insurmountable.

The nearest thing that comes to mind is small arms. INSAS is an Indian design, whose IP is owned by MOD. Dozens of Indian PVT companies have licenses to build small arms. Hand the design to these companies specify the performance criteria for weapons and have the companies tinker with it to come up with derivative designs. In different calibers. Maybe 3 or 4 will succeed in doing this and come up with acceptable derivatives of the weapons in any caliber chosen by the Army.

But it doesn't get done.


many rifles go "missing" every month from govt manufacturing facilities

Rifles also go "missing" from police and paramilitary armories

commercial trucks ready for delivery go "missing" from the secure premises of major manufacturers who just don't seem to be able to stop such thefts

so why needlessly enable "Dozens of Indian PVT companies with licenses"

there is only one place that all these stolen weapons go.

It is also well known who the naxals are in these factories but people are scared of these naxals harming their families.

this theft of weapons is entrenched since decades because many ahole politicos actively support these naxals and also "protect" them in the ordinance factories.

no need to have opened such sensitive facilities in states with political unrest and states with a massive influence of commies, naxals and terrorists in the name of "employment"

it would have been safer to open beedi factories in such places

the damage was done by congi govts at the center, influenced by the BIF, JNU type "intellectuals" and the conversion mafia, which includes the compromised babooze on the take.

And the damage is immense and incalculable

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby arvin » 23 Apr 2021 16:54

Got to admire the far sightedness of whoever was at helm when we ordered our HDW Type-209. It comes with a detachable rescue pod
for crew members to escape in case of situation like this. I think we paid for the design and hold the IP for it.
The DSRV came only 2-3 years back. With P75I in pipeline and 6 SSNs given clearance at least 2 more DSRV should be ordered. Also oceans definitely will have interesting objects to probe at.

https://theprint.in/defence/german-buil ... ne/644613/

An Indonesian conventional submarine that went missing this week with 53 persons on board off the coast of Bali is a HDW Type 209 vessel built by Germany and is similar to what India operates, but with one major difference.

The four HDW Type 209 submarines operated by India has a detachable rescue pod that can accommodate the over 50 crew members in case they have to abandon the vessel due to any complications. This feature is unique to the Indian Navy.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby Philip » 24 Apr 2021 08:24

Adm.Ronnie Pereira, considered the finest chief ever.Refused a Sov.N-sub because we had no experience in operating them,preferred building a western sub at home to give the IN a solid base for sub. tech. The whole infra. for building U-boats at MDL was destroyed by Weepy Singh who charged RG with kickbacks from HDW. That's how he won the election.Bofors and HDW sunk RG. Decades later it was found that no evidence was there for sub kickbacks.By then the entire plant and machinery,etc. was sold for scrap! Later came the controversial Scorpene deal where the French shafted us on price,TOT and 5 yr. delays. The legacy of Weepy Singh.
Incidentally,our Akula SSGN, the Chakra is equipped with a rescue pod in the sail.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby Philip » 24 Apr 2021 08:28

Media reports: the IN has started the process to lease 24 NUHs.
One presumes these will be based aboard warships as we've already ordered some Dhruvs for apparent shore based duties which can't fit into the hangars of many existing warships.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby Pratyush » 24 Apr 2021 11:30

chetak wrote:
Pratyush wrote:
The domestic industry issues can be resolved with handholding from service's and various DRDO labs. The challenges are not insurmountable.

The nearest thing that comes to mind is small arms. INSAS is an Indian design, whose IP is owned by MOD. Dozens of Indian PVT companies have licenses to build small arms. Hand the design to these companies specify the performance criteria for weapons and have the companies tinker with it to come up with derivative designs. In different calibers. Maybe 3 or 4 will succeed in doing this and come up with acceptable derivatives of the weapons in any caliber chosen by the Army.

But it doesn't get done.


many rifles go "missing" every month from govt manufacturing facilities

Rifles also go "missing" from police and paramilitary armories

commercial trucks ready for delivery go "missing" from the secure premises of major manufacturers who just don't seem to be able to stop such thefts

so why needlessly enable "Dozens of Indian PVT companies with licenses"

there is only one place that all these stolen weapons go.

It is also well known who the naxals are in these factories but people are scared of these naxals harming their families.

this theft of weapons is entrenched since decades because many ahole politicos actively support these naxals and also "protect" them in the ordinance factories.

no need to have opened such sensitive facilities in states with political unrest and states with a massive influence of commies, naxals and terrorists in the name of "employment"

it would have been safer to open beedi factories in such places

the damage was done by congi govts at the center, influenced by the BIF, JNU type "intellectuals" and the conversion mafia, which includes the compromised babooze on the take.

And the damage is immense and incalculable


Taking this post to its logical conclusion means that Indian army and paramilitary forces and police forces should be disarmed.

The weapons should be replaced by sticks and stones.

The OFB should be shuttered the employees lobotomised to prevent them from operating in the black market.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby srai » 24 Apr 2021 15:26

Philip wrote:Media reports: the IN has started the process to lease 24 NUHs.
One presumes these will be based aboard warships as we've already ordered some Dhruvs for apparent shore based duties which can't fit into the hangars of many existing warships.

Dhruv’s can fit in hangers after folding but the IN hasn’t been satisfied with the current folding mechanism.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby chetak » 24 Apr 2021 16:40

Philip wrote:Media reports: the IN has started the process to lease 24 NUHs.
One presumes these will be based aboard warships as we've already ordered some Dhruvs for apparent shore based duties which can't fit into the hangars of many existing warships.


the RFP is asking for wheeled landing gear and folding blades.

These helos are meant for operating from ships

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby sankum » 24 Apr 2021 16:49

They want only a 4.3T class naval Panther not 5.8T class Naval Dhruv which Coast guard is buying 3+ 16+ 9 likely= 28 helos with front folding blades and adapted their ship hangers accordingly.
IN can't wait for year for main rotor folding deadline of July 2022 for naval Dhruv. And there is no requirement or money for 111nos naval Panther.
It is better if they want only naval Panther rather buy 24 or 48 nos instead of leasing.


Oh they can't buy naval Panther as in price and capabilities naval Dhruv beat it in CG tender.
Therefore the only option is to lease to bypass an indigenous product for it is not to their liking .

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby arvin » 24 Apr 2021 17:20

Philip wrote:Adm.Ronnie Pereira, considered the finest chief ever.Refused a Sov.N-sub because we had no experience in operating them,preferred building a western sub at home to give the IN a solid base for sub. tech.

Incidentally,our Akula SSGN, the Chakra is equipped with a rescue pod in the sail.


Thanks for the name.
Since two models of the sub fleet have the rescue system, worthwhile to make it as standard part of future subs. Gives some control in the hands of crew to escape rather than wait for help to arrive.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby chetak » 24 Apr 2021 17:44

sankum wrote:They want only a 4.3T class naval Panther not 5.8T class Naval Dhruv which Coast guard is buying 3+ 16+ 9 likely= 28 helos with front folding blades and adapted their ship hangers accordingly.
IN can't wait for year for main rotor folding deadline of July 2022 for naval Dhruv. And there is no requirement or money for 111nos naval Panther.
It is better if they want only naval Panther rather buy 24 or 48 nos instead of leasing.


Oh they can't buy naval Panther as in price and capabilities naval Dhruv beat it in CG tender.
Therefore the only option is to lease to bypass an indigenous product for it is not to their liking .


The initial funding for the naval variant of the dhruv was committed entirely by the IN and no one forced the IN to do it. Ditto with the LCA, the IN was the earliest supporter as well as committing funds for its development, deputing pilots and engineers to assist in the project.

HAL shafted the IN by not delivering as promised and compounded the problem by suggesting various silly methods to overcome the blade fold problem including the stupendous and technically stunning idea of cutting holes in the bulkheads of the IN ships but never seriously worked on a solution. This is just one example.

No one in the IN wants any ameriki system, be it helos, fixed wing or even hamburgers for that matter. They learned a bitter lesson during the last sanctions regime enforced by the amerikis.

In a few short months into his regime, beijingbiden has already proved that he and the amerikis cannot be trusted or even relied upon.

So what's next for India, sanctions or what

Sea going ships need helos with a blade fold capability. If the blade fold system is not operational for any reason, the helo doesn't embark or if already embarked, the helo is disembarked at the very earliest opportunity This means that the operational effectiveness of the fleet/deployment is seriously constrained.

besides this blade fold bit, there are various other unsolved problems that were highlighted years ago but even today remain unsolved after they promised multiple times to sort it all out.

get off this constant "indigenous product" high horse, it has been flogged to the death.

No one else in India has indigenized weapon platforms, weapon systems, sub systems and parts to the extent that the IN has.

indigenized systems, by all means, yes; operational compromises: NO

BTW, the ICG and the IN have very different mission profiles and that is reflected in the design objectives of the two kinds of ships.

These design objectives and space requirements including the build constraints imposed by operational compulsions mean that the IN requirements are quite rigidly defined whereas the ICG design has a lot more flexibility built in when it comes to making design changes to cater to expanded exigencies.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby chetak » 24 Apr 2021 18:19

Pratyush wrote:What happens when the lease expires?

What is the cost of leasing as opposed to an outright purchase of the asset?

Has any analysis of costing done for leasing as opposed to an out right purchase?


What is the provision for the use of Agents and intermediaries in such lease?

What are the opportunities for rent seeking in such lease for babu's?

these are the things I need to know.


a project of this complexity will be based on a very detailed project report, vetted 360 degrees at multiple levels and most of all by the babooze in finance.

If there are any significant inconsistencies, a stinking report will find its way to the MOD and thence onward to the concerned service HQ where it most probably will place serious constraints on the future promotion of the dunderhead who made the boo boo.

These days the CDS is actively involved and there will be an oversight from on high.

the question you ask is infructuous. Nothing in the GoI moves without a massive paper trail following it.

especially not now, with the trio of MAD watching like hawks

mafia famiglia favourites are scattered by the wayside, many of them licking their wounds

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby sankum » 24 Apr 2021 18:26

FUD around naval Dhruv notwithstanding IN as per Ajay Shukla 2008 article IN wanted a 3T Class NUH not a 5 T class. Therefore segmented blade fold mechanism for naval Dhruv was not pursued by HAL for long time as Dhruv was falling between two stools of 3T and 10T class helos.

Then IN changed NUH to 4.5 T specifically for Naval Panther and keep Dhruv out. That's the truth and even now IN is not on board for naval IMRH.

They could have asked for 3.6 T Class twin engine Hal LUH naval version.

Instead of adapting they want big ticket import under make in India which is not possible as there are other pressing needs in tough economic conditions.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby chetak » 24 Apr 2021 18:46

sankum wrote:FUD around naval Dhruv notwithstanding IN as per Ajay Shukla 2008 article IN wanted a 3T Class NUH not a 5 T class. Therefore segmented blade fold mechanism for naval Dhruv was not pursued by HAL for long time as Dhruv was falling between two stools of 3T and 10T class helos.

Then IN changed NUH to 4.5 T specifically for Naval Panther and keep Dhruv out. That's the thruth and xeven now IN is not on board for naval IMRH.

They could have asked for 3.6 T Class twin engine Hal LUH naval version.

Instead of adapting they want big ticket import under make in India which is not possible as there are other pressing needs in tough economic conditions.


some guys are congi turds who are very bitter that their imagined calling as arms traders and middleman was extinguished by the current dispensation, to the extent that even their entry into the hallowed halls of the MOD was banned.

some guys imagine that they are connected to the mafia famiglia via house niggers and they are entitled to many things.

some guys lie through their teeth out of sheer force of habit.

some guys were once married (and now divorced) to some chota mota politician's sister and that gave them some visibility as an alleged "security expert" on BIF channels like runditeevee and such guys are, of late, missing from all tee vee channels because they have overstayed their welcome.

It would be a really cold day in hell before anyone believed these corrupted scum
Last edited by chetak on 24 Apr 2021 18:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby sankum » 24 Apr 2021 18:53

My apologies for touching some raw nerve. No more on this from me.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby chetak » 24 Apr 2021 19:03

sankum wrote:My apologies for touching some raw nerve. No more on this from me.


Please continue sankum ji.

No issues or raw nerves involved and no apologies are necessary.

The IN and the Govt are trying to make the best of a bad situation.

we were once taunted publicly at a PSU meeting where we were told in Hindi: "If you don't come to us, where else will you go. You don't have any other choice"

turns out that, as customers, we had plenty of other more viable choices at less than 50% of what those guys were asking.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby sankum » 24 Apr 2021 19:25

I understand .Full scale privatization of PSU and competition is the requirement.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby chetak » 24 Apr 2021 22:22

sankum wrote:I understand .Full scale privatization of PSU and competition is the requirement.


these PSU guys have what the chinese call the "iron rice bowl", it's an assured job from which they cannot be fired.

both the officers and the labor are fully unionized and union protected and hence untouchable. militancy rules the day

the unions are backed by local politicos pulling strings in the background.

that is why they are able to dictate terms to one and all, and shut out whomever they please, including a company like rafale.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby sankum » 24 Apr 2021 22:35

I know, my father worked through out his life in a PSU and I worked for 4 months in top oil PSU till my liver got damaged . The ovesized government, sector and PSU along with politicos with their mismanagement and corruption have kept India poor and backward.

chetak
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Postby chetak » 24 Apr 2021 22:53

sankum wrote:I know, my father worked through out his life in a PSU and I worked for 4 months in top oil PSU till my liver got damaged . The ovesized government, sector and PSU along with politicos with their mismanagement and corruption have kept India poor and backward.


sankum ji,

sorry to hear about the liver damage.

Hope that things are better now.


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