Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby Prasad » 30 Apr 2021 20:54

How much can simulators help for training with these?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby Aditya_V » 30 Apr 2021 21:35

Interesting that Rafael just completed a series of developmental Trials for the Ground launched I-Derby ER at the end of Feb-21. Perhaps I Derby ER will be purchased for the Tejas, Spyder and SU-30's. I guess IAF is trying make sure missiles are used across platforms. So MICA-IR can be use accross SU-30, M-2000 and Rafales.

https://www.rafael.co.il/press/rafael-marks-another-milestone-in-the-development-of-the-i-derby-er-air-to-air-missile/

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby YashG » 30 Apr 2021 22:33

Rakesh wrote:YashG does that not mean the same thing? I am genuinely asking.

You cannot accelerate developmental timeframes. Everything has to be tested and certified.

You can however accelerate delivery timeframes. But that comes AFTER development.


I'm saying the whole ecosystem needs acceleration. If we take the hard decision to throw more money at our DPSU's instead of imports, we can reliably accelerate the development to production chain. Even during LCA, a number of sub-systems were developed by institutions across the country. Money can accelerate some of these outcomes.

Lynchpin of HAL's approach in delivery and even in development/testing phase would depends heavily now on partner ecosystem. But that approach needs to be strengthened. I'm writing down the threats to that approach right now, which will ultimately build into delays.

#1. HAL needs to develop sub-vendors, many of whom are small vendors. It would be great if HAL can take equity positions in them for cash inflows, if orders cant be give, Infact Parrikarji made 100cr defense innovation fund (DIO) for this exactly. Why is it not being activated and taken up.

#2. HAL subsidiaries are not doing well, due to lack of orders amon other things.
A closer look at its 14 joint ventures show that at least six of them are loss making, three are in the process of being wound up and four of them have recorded negative assets and therefore have eroded their net worth. Half of them failed to record a turnover greater than Rs 10 crore.

- HAL's joint ventures on death bed as defence orders dry up over the years (behind a paywall)
Sai Manish | New Delhi | Last Updated at January 11 2019 21:31 IST

#3. IN last 7-8 years, HAL has been using 6-8 % of its revenues for R&D spending. in 2019-20, it dipped below 6% for reasons we know well. If GoI or Armed Forces cannot place orders, GoI should increase its share capital in HAL or invest more money through other debt instruments for front loading more R&D spend. (This is where not placing orders for LCH today affects Mk2 tomorrow). Infact this %age should be increasing- significantly so, given our aerospace needs & ambitions. HAL R&D budgets hover in 150-200 mn usd annually, when the industry in India we are looking at will reach a size of $70 billion in this decade. Helping HAL increase it's R7D budgets+Ancillary investments (through DIO) to atleast $1 billion an year will not be an overkill. It will all come back in jobs & import avoidance.


#4. News of Staff unrest over salaries is an reported issue at HAL. Attrition also use to be alarming at one time. Increased production/milestone based bonuses (fairly hefty ones) should be given to retain and even attract talent.

I could go on but more money ( & Parrikar like focus) will comprehensively accelerate HAL's capabilities, from development to production.

----
Now whoever in the chain of command - DPSUs-MoD-GoI is responsible for doing this, has to do this without delays. If they are not, its a deshdroh.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby srai » 02 May 2021 03:26

Aditya_V wrote:Interesting that Rafael just completed a series of developmental Trials for the Ground launched I-Derby ER at the end of Feb-21. Perhaps I Derby ER will be purchased for the Tejas, Spyder and SU-30's. I guess IAF is trying make sure missiles are used across platforms. So MICA-IR can be use accross SU-30, M-2000 and Rafales.

https://www.rafael.co.il/press/rafael-marks-another-milestone-in-the-development-of-the-i-derby-er-air-to-air-missile/

Probably add Tejas to that list too for MICA-IR.

CCMs
  • R-73
  • Python-5
  • ASRAAM
  • MICA-IR

Would provide valuable user specification and R&D inputs into Astra-IR CCM.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby basant » 02 May 2021 23:46

Something good for the day!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby Zynda » 03 May 2021 11:34

The video is great...looking forward for more videos and hopefully a good functioning Tejas add-on in DCS (even though I don't play it)...

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby VinodTK » 05 May 2021 05:18

Scientist Manas Bihari Verma, key man behind Tejas, dead
People close to Verma’s family said he died after suffering a massive heart attack at around 11.45 pm at his home at K M Tank locality of Laheriasarai in Darbhanga town.

Padma Shri decorated aeronautical scientist Manas Bihari Verma, who played a key role in the development of the country’s first Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) ‘Tejas’, died of heart attack in Bihar’s Darbhanga district on Monday. He was 78.
:
:
:

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby Atmavik » 05 May 2021 12:15

And the DRDO’s oxygen plants, inspired from the Tech on the Tejas aircraft, have arrived in Delhi Folded hands

https://twitter.com/sneheshphilip/statu ... 05/photo/2

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby Indranil » 06 May 2021 05:12

OBOGS on PV

Image
Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby srai » 07 May 2021 16:32

Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby Aditya_V » 07 May 2021 16:57

MY only wish is those 4 BVR are I-Derby ER, we must acquire atleast a limited stock till Astra -1 integration and availability. Even 50 missiles for some Swift retreat type emergency, these will be better that the Mig 21 Bison.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby Kartik » 07 May 2021 18:15

srai wrote:Image


This is apparently a photoshopped image. From DFI.


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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby uddu » 08 May 2021 08:58

^^^Ignore. Calls our scientists and engineers, who dreamed, conceptualized, designed and productionised and made it possible as arrogant. Those dreamers and visionaries who supported such initiative included our own Dr.Kalam. Today we are reaching self reliance in military aviation because of such a dream. If the political leadership before 2014 was also supportive, things must have been much more faster and not let it suffer like the Marut Program.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby jamwal » 08 May 2021 13:11

Size comparison between the largest and smallest fighters in IAF.

Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby LakshmanPST » 08 May 2021 15:15

Not sure about accuracy of this news. But would be a major milestone once it happens.
https://twitter.com/Aerodynamic111/stat ... 78624?s=19
The IAF will start deploying indigenously developed Tejas on the western front by mid this year frm their home base in Sulur.
Tejas temporarily had deployed in the western front close to the Pak border last yr bt that not permanent.
2nd squadron at the home base in Sulur, with more aircraft in the pipeline to be delivered in the next 2 months, the first squadron will move to the western front base to make space for the second squadron.
FOC variant of the Second squadron is likely to be posted at Srinagar AF Base to replace the Mig-21 squadron.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby Kartik » 09 May 2021 16:55

Indranil wrote:OBOGS on PV

Is this meant for the Tejas Mk1A? Why else would it be trialed on a Mk1 Prototype Vehicle??
Last edited by Rakesh on 09 May 2021 20:08, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Please do not re-quote pictures when replying

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby mody » 09 May 2021 17:43

Kartik wrote:
Indranil wrote:OBOGS on PV

Is this meant for the Tejas Mk1A? Why else would it be trialed on a Mk1 Prototype Vehicle??

This is really great news. Was always disappointed at earlier reports that OBOGS was meant for the Tejas MK2 and wasn't going to be integrated with the FoC and MK1A variants. Seems like that has changed. It will feature on the MK1A and will be retrofitted on the MK1 fighters as well.

This will increase the endurance and on station time of the fighters.

Now get the Astra MK1 integrated along with the Israeli EW pod and even the MK1 FOC variants will be on par with the M2K upgraded variants.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby basant » 09 May 2021 19:51

^^^
PV can be, and should be, a testbed for Mk2 tech where possible. May be that is what we see. Given the size and endurance differences, may be Mk1A may not require it.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby srai » 10 May 2021 06:10

basant wrote:^^^
... Given the size and endurance differences, may be Mk1A may not require it.


Tejas, in below config, can fly for more than 2.5 hours (likely around 3 hours or 2000km). OBOGS provides more mission flexibility and includes additional safety features with backups in BOS and EOS. All for no extra weight penalty compared to current setup AFAIK.
Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby ashishvikas » 10 May 2021 10:28

Indranil wrote:OBOGS on PV

Which other Indian Fighter have OBOGS ? Su30MKI/Mig29/MIrage2000 ?
Last edited by Rakesh on 10 May 2021 23:08, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: please do not requote images when replying

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby Zynda » 10 May 2021 10:41

AFAIK, none of the current fighters in IAF have OBOGS. Tejas series will be the first one to get such a system. Once operational in Tejas and kinks worked out, it is quite possible that we might see OBOGS adopted to other platforms. AFAIK, the current fighters carry O2 in a tank...

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby basant » 10 May 2021 11:24

What I meant for size was the available real estate. Like internal EW suite, for instance. It may be tested on PV, but might be for the Mk2.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby Kartik » 10 May 2021 18:53

I had seen this article earlier but forgot about it. Reading it once again somewhat convinced me that the latest Derby trials from the Tejas Mk1 off Goa coast were with the new I-Derby ER extended range BVRAAM. That's what the "enhanced capabilities" referred to in all the official press reports.

So "official sources" confirmed to Janes back in May 2019, that the IAF would be acquiring I-Derby-ER BVRAAMs from Israel to equip the Tejas Mk1s.

We may see this new missile equipping Su-30MKIs in the future, replacing the R-77 stocks that may be nearing their operational end of life.

IAF plans to arm it's Su-30MKI fleet with I-Derby ER BVRAAMs


The Indian Air Force (IAF) is planning to arm its fleet of Sukhoi Su-30MKI multirole fighters with the Rafael Advanced Defense Systems I-Derby ER (extended range) beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) once the service phases out its ageing Russian-made Vympel R-77 (AA-12 ‘Adder’) AAMs by 2021–22.

Official sources told Jane’s that the IAF is in talks with Rafael to acquire the active radar-guided I-Derby ER, which has a range of 100 km, adding that the procurement process for the missiles could be finalised “imminently”.

The latest developments come after the fire-and-forget I-Derby ER missile, which features a software-defined radar seeker and a dual-pulse solid rocket motor, was selected to be the primary AAM to arm the IAF’s indigenously designed Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) following successful test-firings in July 2018.

An earlier version of the Derby, which can be configured as a surface-to-air missile, is also part of the IAF’s 18 Spyder-SR air-defence systems acquired from Rafael in 2008–09 for an estimated USD1 billion.

Delivery of the Spyder-SR systems, which included 750 Derby missiles, began in 2012 and was completed three years later.

The Indian Navy was the first to integrate an older Derby variant onto its since-retired Sea Harrier FRS Mk 51 carrier-borne fighters from 2005–06.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby srai » 11 May 2021 12:30

Indranil wrote:OBOGS on PV

Image
Image


You can see where these two areas are here in this picture:
Image

One can get a relative size of the space from the person working close by.

Not quite sure whether it’s on the right side or the left side. Or separated into two sides too? To me, it looks to be on the left side

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby Kartik » 11 May 2021 14:21

Tejas Mk1 SP-26 (LA-5023) on it's first flight

Image

Twitter link

LCA Tejas growling back home!
@IAF_MCC

@HALHQBLR

#indianairforce #tejas

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby basant » 11 May 2021 15:00

"One can get a relative size of the space from the person working close by."

I could not find the size for OBOGS (unlike Internal EW suite whose volume is published). But weight is 14.5 kg.
Source: http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2019/09 ... xygen.html

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby KSingh » 11 May 2021 15:24

Zynda wrote:AFAIK, none of the current fighters in IAF have OBOGS. Tejas series will be the first one to get such a system. Once operational in Tejas and kinks worked out, it is quite possible that we might see OBOGS adopted to other platforms. AFAIK, the current fighters carry O2 in a tank...

Rafale has OBOGS but AFAIK it's the only one in the IAF's inventory, I wonder about the MiG-29Ks.

Once again highlighting the absolute strategic benefits of having your own projects, I cannot understand they LCA is not treated as a national project instead it's treated as a step child.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby ashishvikas » 11 May 2021 22:16

Kartik wrote:Tejas Mk1 SP-26 (LA-5023) on it's first flight

Image

Twitter link

LCA Tejas growling back home!
@IAF_MCC

@HALHQBLR

#indianairforce #tejas



Didn't SP 26 have a grey engine bay cover?

https://twitter.com/Indrani1_Roy/status ... 92546?s=19


Yes but the one I posted now isn’t SP26

https://twitter.com/gaur_av_iation/stat ... 79746?s=19

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby LakshmanPST » 12 May 2021 04:11

Seeing Twitter and Youtube updates that SP27 (LA 5023) took first flight today and two more FOCs will also fly by this month end...
Any official confirmation...?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby LakshmanPST » 12 May 2021 04:20

Also, I posted this comment on March 4th regarding the Production Line information of Tejas Mk1 jets along with source. Mods may please update Page 1.

As per first few minutes of this video---> https://youtu.be/CZ_AnKNLeEU

Line 1 (LCA Division):-
Old Aircraft designations SP21, SP22, SP24, SP26, SP28, SP30, SP31, SP32, SP33 and SP36
(New designations SP17/LA5017, 18, 20, 22, 24, 26, 27, 28, 29 and 32)...

Line 2 (Aircraft Division):-
Old Aircraft designations SP23, SP25, SP27, SP29, SP34 and SP35
(New designations SP19/LA5019, 21, 23, 25, 30 and 31)...

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby ArjunPandit » 12 May 2021 23:53

LakshmanPST wrote:Seeing Twitter and Youtube updates that SP27 (LA 5023) took first flight today and two more FOCs will also fly by this month end...
Any official confirmation...?

Link please...

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby LakshmanPST » 12 May 2021 23:55

ArjunPandit wrote:
LakshmanPST wrote:Seeing Twitter and Youtube updates that SP27 (LA 5023) took first flight today and two more FOCs will also fly by this month end...
Any official confirmation...?

Link please...



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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby ArjunPandit » 13 May 2021 14:36

Thanks..its a shame that that tejas flights get much less attention in media than the Rafale. At the same time, really waiting for a regular Tejas deliveries

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby ArjunPandit » 13 May 2021 14:40

Rakesh ji, are these numbers are for a financial year or for a calendar year?

Year-Over-Year Tejas Production

• 2015-16: One
• 2016: Two
• 2017: Three
• 2018: Six
• 2019: Four
• 2020: Two
• 2021: Four to Date
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tejas Production Lines
• Line 1* (LCA Division): Current capacity is 8 aircraft per year.
*Manage outsourcing and supply chain management
• Line 2* (Aircraft Division): Current capacity is 4 aircraft per year.
*Manage second sub assembly and integration lines

has anyone come across any article of late that when will we hit 12-16 per production, given COVID ?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby Kartik » 13 May 2021 18:02

Close up of SP-26

Image

Twitter link

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby KSingh » 13 May 2021 21:09

ArjunPandit wrote:Rakesh ji, are these numbers are for a financial year or for a calendar year?

Year-Over-Year Tejas Production

• 2015-16: One
• 2016: Two
• 2017: Three
• 2018: Six
• 2019: Four
• 2020: Two
• 2021: Four to Date
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tejas Production Lines
• Line 1* (LCA Division): Current capacity is 8 aircraft per year.
*Manage outsourcing and supply chain management
• Line 2* (Aircraft Division): Current capacity is 4 aircraft per year.
*Manage second sub assembly and integration lines

has anyone come across any article of late that when will we hit 12-16 per production, given COVID ?

16/year is only planned for MK1A and probably won't be available for the first year so probably FY2025-26


until then the outstanding FOC+ trainers will be churned out so the decks are cleared by 2024, you can infer what the next 3 years of production rates will look like from that

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby LakshmanPST » 13 May 2021 22:07

ArjunPandit wrote:Rakesh ji, are these numbers are for a financial year or for a calendar year?

Year-Over-Year Tejas Production

• 2015-16: One
• 2016: Two
• 2017: Three
• 2018: Six
• 2019: Four
• 2020: Two
• 2021: Four to Date
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tejas Production Lines
• Line 1* (LCA Division): Current capacity is 8 aircraft per year.
*Manage outsourcing and supply chain management
• Line 2* (Aircraft Division): Current capacity is 4 aircraft per year.
*Manage second sub assembly and integration lines


I think those numbers on page 1 refer to calender year, not financial year...

has anyone come across any article of late that when will we hit 12-16 per production, given COVID ?


There are still 10 Single Seat and 8 Twin seat Mk1s pending from IOC and FOC order...
So, FYs 2021-22, 2022-23 & 2023-2024 will see average 6-8 jets per year...
We can expect 12-16 jets production rate from FY 2024-25 onwards for Mk1A orders...

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby Aditya_V » 14 May 2021 17:57

What about the 10 trainers of the Mk-1A order, are they MK1 Standard?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Postby LakshmanPST » 14 May 2021 19:08

Aditya_V wrote:What about the 10 trainers of the Mk-1A order, are they MK1 Standard?


They are Mk1 standard...
But we do not know which of them will be prioritized first; 10 Mk1 trainers or 73 Mk1A fighters... Or if there will be parallel production with two Mk1 Trainers delivered per year...
But either of them can be delivered from FY2024-25 only...


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