VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 05 May 2021 19:06

Vips wrote:The 150 Mirage's would have been good till now but no further. Countries like Qatar and Egypt have Mirage 2000 but have since moved on. If we had only Porkistan as a neighbour yes those Mirages would have been good even for another decade but with china as our enemy No 1 they would not/will not be enough.

I am referring to the 150 (40 off the shelf + 110 made by HAL) Mirage 2000 order from the 80s. Had the GOI done that back then, the IAF would not be hunting for 114 MRFA fighters today and the IAF would not have purchased 36 Rafales either. Same with the HDW 209 submarine deal as well.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Rakesh » 05 May 2021 19:11

Vips wrote:The French will for certain try to gouge us by claiming F4 version > F3. I tried finding which version the Egyptians have opted for in the latest order but have not been able to come across more specifics of that deal.

The Rafale EM (single seater) and Rafale DM (twin seater) variants in the Egyptian Air Force is the F3O-4T variant. The second batch of 30 aircraft will be in the F3R standard. The earlier batch will be upgraded to the F3R standard.

No Rafale F4 variant exists as of yet, however reportedly the Rafale F4 has been offered (on paper) to the IAF to match or exceed the other contestants in the MRFA contest. Since 114 aircraft will not come, a small batch of F4s and upgrading the first 36 will work out cheaper than acquiring 114 birds. India also operates the F3R variant, but with India Specific Enhancements.

French stuff is pricey, but it works i.e. Balakot. Also, India does not have to deal with the perpetual political whining & shenanigans such as with Uncle Sam.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Vivek K » 05 May 2021 21:12

I50 Mirages would have kept Rafales out. The Rafale fleet therefore plus the M2K fleet size should be that much to counter two hostile neighbors. So another 36 Rafales should be purchased ASAP and delivered quickly. This would allow time for the Mk2 and AMCA to develop and mature without loss of capability. LCA Mk2 can definitely replace the Jag + Mig -27 fleets. IAF should be looking to grow to 45 squadrons. LCA can help with that enhancement.
GOI should look at building private capability to manufacture and design aircraft. HAL privatization, support to others (Taneja Aerospace) should be considered forthwith so that MK2 and AMCA designs can go to private lines. Also release of orders would become easier with use of private entities.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Vips » 05 May 2021 22:31

Three more Rafale fighter jets to arrive in India tonight.

Three more French-origin Rafale fighters are slated to touch down in India, after mid-air refueling by tankers of France and UAE, on Wednesday night.

The three new jets will add to the 17 such omni-role fighters, which have a combat range of 780-km to 1,650-km without mid-air refueling, already delivered to India.

IAF will get all the 36 twin-engine Rafales, contracted under the Rs 59,000 crore deal inked with France in September 2016, by next year.The first Rafale squadron, 17 `Golden Arrows’ Squadron, is already operational at the Ambala airbase. The second, 101 `Falcons’ Squadron, in turn, will now come up at the Hasimara airbase in West Bengal, as was reported by TOI earlier.

The 4.5-generation Rafales are armed with long stand-off weapons like the over 300-km range `Scalp’ air-to-ground cruise missiles. The fighters are also being equipped with the top-notch Meteor air-to-air missiles, which with a strike range of 120 to 150-km can outgun any missile that can currently be unleashed by Pakistani or Chinese jets.

IAF has also ordered the “Hammer” air-to-ground precision-guided munitions for the Rafales, in a deal that came last year amidst the ongoing military confrontation with China in eastern Ladakh.

With a strike range of 20 to 70-km, the Hammer munitions are designed to destroy bunkers, hardened shelters and other targets in all terrains, including the mountainous one in Ladakh.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby LakshmanPST » 11 May 2021 02:42

Vips wrote:Three more Rafale fighter jets to arrive in India tonight.

Three more French-origin Rafale fighters are slated to touch down in India, after mid-air refueling by tankers of France and UAE, on Wednesday night.


Did these 6th batch jets land in India...?
I haven't seen any proper news item (except 1 or 2 vague news articles)... Even @IAF_MCC didn't tweet anything about this, which they normally do...

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby LakshmanPST » 12 May 2021 05:49

LakshmanPST wrote:
Vips wrote:Three more Rafale fighter jets to arrive in India tonight.

Three more French-origin Rafale fighters are slated to touch down in India, after mid-air refueling by tankers of France and UAE, on Wednesday night.


Did these 6th batch jets land in India...?
I haven't seen any proper news item (except 1 or 2 vague news articles)... Even @IAF_MCC didn't tweet anything about this, which they normally do...


The only credible source I found is this tweet from official account of Indian Embassy in France--->
https://twitter.com/Indian_Embassy/stat ... 60032?s=19

It shows pics of pilots on tarmac before takeoff. So, the 6th batch probably arrived. But surprised to see not even a single confirmatory tweet or news article regarding the same.

In a way it is good that deliveries became a routine affair now and they're not overhyping Rafales like before.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Kartik » 15 May 2021 14:07

No.101 'Falcons' squadron to be resurrected with the arrival of 4 more Rafales.

IAF set to resurrect 101 Squadron at Hashimara base with 4 more Rafale jets

At the end of May, the Air Force will have 24 Rafale fighter jets in India, with another seven kept for training purposes in France and only five more to be handed over before the two squadrons are complete.

With another batch of four Rafale fighters landing at Ambala from Merignac-Bordeaux airbase in France on May 19-20, the Indian Air Force (IAF) is all set to resurrect the 101 “Falcons of Chamb” squadron at Hashimara in West Bengal even as advance units have already moved into the new base.


While the exact date of Rafale landing in India will be determined by availability of mid-air refuellers of the UAE Air Force and weather conditions, it is quite evident that the full deliveries of 36 aircraft will be completed well before April 2022 as announced by Union defence minister Rajnath Singh in Parliament. At the end of May, the IAF will have 24 Rafale fighter jets in India, with another seven kept for training purposes in France and only five more to be handed over before the two squadrons are complete.

The last five aircraft may be delivered in the second-half of 2021 as Egypt has placed an order of 30 Rafale fighters.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby ramana » 18 May 2021 05:32

Rakesh or any one what are differences between F3 vs F4?
And does latter exist?

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby m_saini » 18 May 2021 06:58

Ramana sir, some info about the F3-R vs F4

Rafale F3-R standard qualified by the DGA
On 31 October 2018, the F3-R standard of the Rafale was qualified by the French defense procurement agency (DGA)

The upgrades:
The European Meteor long-range air-to-air missile produced by MBDA.
The Thales Talios new-generation laser designator pod.
The laser homing version of the Safran AASM Air-to-Ground Modular Weapon.
F3 R also includes upgrades to the Rafale sensors and to systems ensuring total interoperability.

Rafale F3-R standard declared fully operational
As previously reported by Janes, the F3-R standard comprises major software and hardware upgrades that include the integration of the Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) and the latest laser-guided version of the Sagem Armement Air-Sol Modulaire (AASM) modular air-to-ground precision weapon, the Thales RBE2 active electronic scanned array (AESA) radar, the Thales TALIOS long-range airborne targeting pod, an automatic ground collision avoidance system (Auto-GCAS), an improved buddy-buddy refuelling pod, and the Spectra electronic warfare system. The latest version of the Rafale will continue to carry the enhanced medium-range, air-to-ground missile (ASMPA) as part of airborne nuclear deterrence missions.


The F4

France Launches Rafale F4 Upgrade

Under current plans Standard F4 will be implemented in two increments, the first in 2023 and the second in 2025.
The first batch of F4.1 Rafales will comprise 28 aircraft, already contracted for, while the later F4.2 batch will comprise 30 machines that are due for delivery by 2030.


Improvements
Further system enhancements will be made to the Rafale’s sensor suite, including the RBE2 AESA radar, Talios targeting pod, and the OSF frontal sector optronics system. Likewise, the Spectra electronic warfare system will also receive improvements to maintain its ability to deter emerging threats. Weapons enhancements will be made through future developments of the ASMP-A nuclear missile, Scalp stand-off attack missile, MICA NG air-to-air missile, and a 1000-kg version of the AASM precision-guided weapon. In-service support and readiness will be improved through the adoption of processes such as fault diagnosis assistance, preventative maintenance, and the upgrading of the M88 engine’s computer


Rafale “F4” standard launched

F4 will include a new Prognosis and Diagnostic Aid System introducing predictive maintenance capabilities. Other maintenance optimization features are scheduled, particularly with solutions based on Big Data and artificial intelligence. Lastly, the Rafale will be equipped with a new engine control unit.

France Testing Scorpion Combat Vehicle Helmet as part of F4 Standard Rafale Jet
France’s Director General of Armamements (DGA) has commenced testing the helmet from the Scorpion combat vehicle on the Rafale fighter jet as part of its F4 standard, the next planned upgrade of the Rafale.

The French defense ministry said DGA carried out compatibility tests on the Thales Scorpion helmet sight on the Cazaux site (Gironde) with the parachute evacuation of a Rafale pilot.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby srai » 19 May 2021 11:45

^^^
IAF won’t be upgrading to F4 standards anytime soon. Probably IAF Rafale MLU would occur around 2035/40. By then, there will be plenty of Indian components available for consideration.

However, new weapons integration (Indian, French and Israeli) will be ongoing. Indigenous ones would be Brahmos-NG, Nirbhay ALCM, Rudram ASM series, Gurav/Gautam glide bombs, HSLD/PG and probably Astra AAM series.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby ramana » 19 May 2021 12:51

m_saini, Thanksvexactly what I was looking for.
Gracias.

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby LakshmanPST » 25 May 2021 11:49

France begins Rafale F4 flight trials
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... ght-trials

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby LakshmanPST » 25 May 2021 11:52

Kartik wrote:No.101 'Falcons' squadron to be resurrected with the arrival of 4 more Rafales.

IAF set to resurrect 101 Squadron at Hashimara base with 4 more Rafale jets


With another batch of four Rafale fighters landing at Ambala from Merignac-Bordeaux airbase in France on May 19-20,


Any news about the delivery of 7th batch of 4 Rafales...?

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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

Postby Vips » 28 May 2021 17:59

LakshmanPST wrote:
Kartik wrote:No.101 'Falcons' squadron to be resurrected with the arrival of 4 more Rafales.

Any news about the delivery of 7th batch of 4 Rafales...?


3 more Rafale jets land in India from France.

Another batch of three Rafale fighter jets landed at the Ambala airbase on Thursday, taking the total number of Rafales in the Indian Air Force (IAF) inventory to 23.

According to people aware of the development in Dassault, four aircraft were supposed to take off from Merignac-Bordeaux airbase in France on May 20, but only three could because of the unavailability of more mid-air refuellers in the UAE.

Although four Rafale Omni role fighters were supposed to leave on May 20, the flights were rescheduled due to maintenance issues with the mid air refuellers. The fighters could only take off today due to long weekend holidays in France, the people cited above said.

The IAF is all set to resurrect the 101 “Falcons of Chamb” squadron at Hashimara in West Bengal. It is expected that the full deliveries of 36 Rafale aircraft will be completed well before April 2022 as announced by Union defence minister Rajnath Singh in Parliament.

With India likely to buy more front-line fighters to complete the stalled requirement of 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA), the French have not only offered hot engine technology to India but are also willing to jointly develop extended range and capability Hammer air-to-ground missile under the Atmanirbhar Bharat route. French engine manufacturer Safran has already conveyed the offer for jointly developing aircraft engines upto 100 Kilo Newton thrust as well as share the hot engine technology which Indian allies in the west are reluctant to share.

France has also offered to share and jointly develop technology for longer range and heavier Highly Agile and Manoeuvrable Munition Extended Range (Hammer) missile which is currently part of the weapons package on the Indian Rafale. With a range of over 70 kilometres, the Hammer weapon can be guided on to the target using GPS, Inertial Navigation and Infra-red seeker with the capability to adjust to target location mid-air using maps for course correction. The latest version of this weapon has a 1,000 kilogram bomb and with laser guidance technology.

India ordered 36 warplanes from France (equivalent of two squadrons) in 2016 for ₹59,000 crore under a government-to-government deal.


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