Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

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Pratyush
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

600 hp engine cranked for the first time for the FICV. Joint development of CVRDE and Ashok Leyland.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1473190793204563970?s=20 ---> Indian Army chief Gen Manoj Mukund Naravane will today induct the first set of indigenously developed next-generation Armoured Engineer Reconnaissance Vehicle into the Corps of Engineers: Indian Army officials.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/SpokespersonMoD/sta ... 22982?s=20 ---> The first set of indigenously developed next-generation Armoured Engineer Reconnaissance Vehicle, designed by DRDO & manufactured by Ordnance Factory Medak & Bharat Electronics Limited, Pune inducted into the Corps of Engineers of Indian Army, today.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

Indigenously Developed Armoured Engineer Reconnaissance Vehicle inducted into Indian Army
https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=1783990
21 December 2021

The first set of indigenously developed next generation Armoured Engineer Reconnaissance Vehicle was inducted into the Corps of Engineers of Indian Army in a solemn function attended by Gen MM Naravane, the Chief of Army Staff at Pune today. The system has been designed by Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and manufactured by Ordnance Factory Medak & Bharat Electronics Limited, Pune. Despite the various restrictions imposed by the COVID pandemic since the last one year, supply of the vehicle to Indian Army has been on schedule. The vehicle is capable of carrying out reconnaissance of water obstacles and boggy patches for execution of engineer tasks with capabilities to carry out reconnaissance and provide real time update to force commanders. The system will enhance existing engineer reconnaissance capabilities of Indian Army and would be a major game changer in support of mechanized operations in future conflicts.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Vips »

Nipun anti-personnel mines: Army gets weapons boost for Pakistan, China borders.

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The Indian Army is set to receive indigenously designed and developed anti-personnel and anti-tank mines, which will help security personnel foil attempts made by adversaries on the borders with Pakistan and China.

“Indian Army's Corps of Engineers getting a new set of anti-personnel and anti-tank mines for acting as the first line of defence against enemy infantry and armoured columns or terrorist trying to infiltrate into own territory,” army officials familiar with the developments told news agency ANI.

“The Indian Army is going to induct 7 lakh indigenously developed 'Nipun' anti-personnel mines which carry a potent mix of RDX,” a security official familiar with the developments also told ANI.

The Corps of Engineers is showcasing the indigenous equipment in Pune, which were inducted into the army for carrying out anti-terror operations against the enemy as well as defending its own areas.

Nipun mines were developed by an Indian firm in partnership with the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

The Corps of Engineers are also carrying out trials of Vibhav and Vishal anti-tank mines, all of which are indigenously developed next-generation anti-tank mines.The officials said along with these mines, Prachand, Ulka and Parth are also some of the new mines which will be inducted into the army after trials are conducted successfully. They also said some of these mines are at an advanced stage of user trials.

These mines possess greater stopping power against enemy tanks due to their advanced design and sensors.

The army said it started the induction of high head water pumps in areas at high altitudes along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) with China.

“The Indian Army started inducting 200 high head water pumps which can help pump water and fuel to locations at higher altitudes in those areas. Two hundred of these pumps are being inducted into the Corps of Engineers under the emergency procurement powers,” the official added.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/VinodDX9/status/147 ... 65507?s=20 ---> The complete Arjun Mk.1A with Elbit ALWCS including IR Jammer, LWS & Multi Spectral Smoke, Elbit COAPS , OFB RCWS, Pearson Engineering TWMP and APU. Note the mantlet is covered.

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Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/defence_in/status/1 ... 07596?s=20 ---> The Interior of L&T FICV prototype.

Courtesy: Haldi Billa-DFI and The Photograph Owner's.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... 91328?s=20 ---> France is ready to support Indian Army's future Main Battle Tank (MBT) project i.e. FRCV, French defence ministry tells France's Parliament.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

The futuristic infantry combat vehicle program seems to be coming along nicely.

As the "light tank" program will be based on that instead of the K9 Hull mated to a 105 mm gun.

The first prototype will be ready by 2023.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by basant »

Indian Army likely to get French ‘Killing Machine’ Leclerc Main Battle Tanks
Published on Jan 05, 2022 09:16 AM IST

The Indian Army aims to acquire around 1,700 main battle tanks under the Future Combat Eady Vehicle (FCRV) programme. The objective of India's FCRV programme is to replace the Soviet-era T-72 tanks. With eyes set on the induction of new tanks by 2030, the Indian government sought information from 12 firms last year. The Macron government recently told the French assembly that it'll back a bid to export next-gen tanks to the Indian Army. The French govt has stated that it would support state-owned weapons firm Nexter's proposal for India. In the assembly, French leader Dupont-Aignan called for resuming the production of Nexter's Leclerc tanks. The French leader argued that if Nexter wins the contract, it would imply separate production lines for Leclerc tanks in France & India. Watch the full video for more.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Unless the actual vehicle is the proposed Franco -German future tank with 130 mm main gun.

No point going with a design which is over 30 years old. As a future ready combat vehicle.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by k prasad »

basant wrote:Indian Army likely to get French ‘Killing Machine’ Leclerc Main Battle Tanks
Published on Jan 05, 2022 09:16 AM IST

...With eyes set on the induction of new tanks by 2030, the Indian government sought information from 12 firms last year. The Macron government recently told the French assembly that it'll back a bid to export next-gen tanks to the Indian Army...[/b]
Here we go again! How on earth can they justify this when MBTs are in the negative imports list? Also, with 1700 tanks in the contract, I'm not sure how it can be considered an 'emergency' procurement, since setting up the line and completing the order will itself take a significant amount of time, so how can they call it an emergency?

Of the tanks MoD might've sought information from, the list is fairly limited (and arranged by weight):

- Type 10 (48t)
- K2 Black Panther (54t),
- T-14 (55t),
- Leclerc (58t)

- Merkava Mk4 (65t)
- Challenger 2 (65t), C3 will weigh 66t
- Leopard 2A7+ (67.5t)
- Arjun Mk1A (68.5 tons),

- M1A2 Abrams (73t),

That's 10, and of these, only 4 are in a weight class lower than the Mk1A. The four in the Arjun weight class are certainly weight-benchmarked without the mine plough, and possibly without the ERA, which add 3 tons to the Mk1A weight. So I don't know how the MoD could've solicited information from 12 potential suppliers without hitting at least 5-6 of them that are as heavy as or heavier than the Arjun. Which means they are potentially okay with a 65 ton tank. If so, why not just go for the Arjun?

Any other 'future' tanks are at least 10 years out. That goes for the MGCS French-German tank which is projected to enter service only in 2035, well outside of any 'emergency'.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

No need to get outraged. "likely to get" is clearly a huge exaggeration by HT. There have been other media reports citing offer of collaboration by the French. Don't worry have curry !
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by k prasad »

Cyrano wrote:No need to get outraged. "likely to get" is clearly a huge exaggeration by HT. There have been other media reports citing offer of collaboration by the French. Don't worry have curry !
Sorry if i was unclear in my post, Cyrano. My fundamental frustration is the fact that such an RFI was issued at all. We have a proven tank, tested in every regime but supersonic flight, and tailored for the user; so i see absolutely no reason for this RFI to be issued given that MBTs are on the negative imports list.

The only viable reason for issuing the RFI is if the Arjun, as a 65 ton class tank, fundamentally misses the IA requirements, and the lead time on developing and inducting a lighter replacement is too long given the nature of our security needs (hence, an emergency FMS route).

But if that were the case, the RFIs wouldnt have gone out to maybe 5-6 suppliers, not 12, since at least half of them are either heavier than or in the same weight class as Arjun.

I can only imagine the level of demoralisation that must be happening in HVF Avadi and CVRDE.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

RFIs are a way of collecting information (specs, some design details and tactics/counter measures) thats out of public space. However, it can lead to brochuritis. Like folks have said before, IA needs to have a clear doctrine of how to use heavy MBTs in 2.5 scenario, as part of integrated theatre commands (assuming that plan goes fwd post Gen Rawat RIP).

As far as CVRDE and HVF Avadi are concerned, they deserve praise and support but also part of the blame for the state of affairs. The docus of their factories show age old facilities, tools and practices that are best not continued into coming decades. They will have their hands full with the 124 Mk1As on order plus upgrades & overhaul of the delivered fleet for a few years.

IMO the next indigenous tank must be designed by organising a paid competition between 2 or 3 private-public players to produce 3 prototypes each and select one. These bidders can bring in foreign collaboration as they see fit. Kalyani, Tata and Mahindra for ex. can surely scale up for such an initiative. Selected bidder can be mandated to share some % of production (perhaps components or subassemblies or s/w (for sensor fusion, networked tactics etc.) with the other two) so that the whole exercise becomes viable for all. In any case, the final product will have to be largely indigenous design & mfg, because India's needs are unique in many respects. For ex No European tank expects to fight at 45°C heat AND -20°C frost for weeks, nor cross dunes, wade canals and face the kind of anti-tank and drone stuff IA expects from Pakis and Chinis. So all this RFI will lead to at worst is brochuritis, but Atmanirbhar is irrevocably here to stay. The antidote to bling-bling brochuritis is IA's clarity of the role, purpose and doctrine for MBTS under TCs in each theatre. IMHO onlee.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »



This is reporting that l&t is working on the ELEGANT turret for the FMBT to be integrated into the hull of the Arjun mk1 for testing.

However, given the attitude shown by the army regarding the electrical systems of the ATAGS. It seems that the DRDO is being taken on a new wild goose chase again.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... 35329?s=20 ---> @larsentoubro to make turret of Arjun Mk1A for DRDO and Indian Army.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by ManuJ »

Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... 35329?s=20 ---> @larsentoubro to make turret of Arjun Mk1A for DRDO and Indian Army.
AFAIK, the turret is not for Arjun Mk1A, it is for the FMBT. A modified Mk1A will be used to test the turret.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

What's the point. The turret drive systems will be driven by electric motors.

After testing it for 5 years the army will ask for hydraulic systems and the circus will continue.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

I am cautiously optimistic that the circus will stop. Modiji will put his foot down. A small flicker of hope has been lit.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by mody »

The turret drive of T90S tanks is also electric. Currently being indigenized with locally produced motors. So not to worry, if the tin cans have electric drive, Arjun and FMBT will too.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

If that's the case then why is Indian army having so many issues with the electrical system of the ATAGS.

That they have asked for the removal of those systems from the gun.

I guess that we don't have the complete picture.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

Pratyush wrote:If that's the case then why is Indian army having so many issues with the electrical system of the ATAGS.

That they have asked for the removal of those systems from the gun.

I guess that we don't have the complete picture.
Cause they wanted ATHOS and somebody unknown to public especially Babudom wanted to make commissions. Got to hand it over to the people in Defense, MOD, DRDO who are still willing to work under such an entrenched ecosystem to still develop good Indian products. Its easy to be cynical and discouraged in such situations.

In the requirement of moving from Electric to Hydraulic, there is no official document, it could be media speculation by sponsored vested interests for all we know
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by YashG »

^^^
Israel has one of the greatest spy capabilities, doesnt have to be money - cud be other coercive things too.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Aditya_V wrote:
Pratyush wrote:If that's the case then why is Indian army having so many issues with the electrical system of the ATAGS.

That they have asked for the removal of those systems from the gun.

I guess that we don't have the complete picture.
Cause they wanted ATHOS and somebody unknown to public especially Babudom wanted to make commissions. Got to hand it over to the people in Defense, MOD, DRDO who are still willing to work under such an entrenched ecosystem to still develop good Indian products. Its easy to be cynical and discouraged in such situations.

In the requirement of moving from Electric to Hydraulic, there is no official document, it could be media speculation by sponsored vested interests for all we know
Aditya_V actually if you look at how AHQ works and how personality-driven things can be you can actually quite safely see how GSQRs shift and how electric becomes hydraulic and hydraulic become electric before both become something from the 5th dimension!!!
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by niran »

k prasad wrote:
Cyrano wrote:No need to get outraged. "likely to get" is clearly a huge exaggeration by HT. There have been other media reports citing offer of collaboration by the French. Don't worry have curry !
Sorry if i was unclear in my post, Cyrano. My fundamental frustration is the fact that such an RFI was issued at all. We have a proven tank, tested in every regime but supersonic flight, and tailored for the user; so i see absolutely no reason for this RFI to be issued given that MBTs are on the negative imports list.
RFI was for main gun target tracking system, Tank Commander selects a target and slave it to tracking system gun auto aim meanwhile correct ammo loaded. Le clerc one is said to be the best, read most robust, fastest and most accurate, it can even lead a moving target, mercan system cannot lead a moving target plus cannot slave from HiFi sights like infrared, image intensifiers.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by mody »

Even the Pinaka has a electric drive system. Not sure why for the ATAGS the hydraulic is making a comeback. Really odd.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

It’s L&T for Light Tank !
https://alphadefense.in/its-lt-for-light-tank/
03 Jan 2022
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by sohamn »

Rakesh wrote:It’s L&T for Light Tank !
https://alphadefense.in/its-lt-for-light-tank/
03 Jan 2022

I don't think this will take off because in reality light tank will invite the same kind of enemy weaponry like an MBT and a tin can can't survive in an real battlefield. We already have a light tank and it is called BMP-2, if you want better firepower just retrofit a 70 mm gun turret. We also have a medium tank and its called T-72 - retrofit it with a T-90 engine and it would have enough power to weight ratio to tackle mountain conditions.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

I think that the new proposed light tank will be based on the automotive components of the FICV. Which will be used as an organic direct fire vehicle for the mechanised infantry formations. The application against the PRC will be as an addition to the existing armoured formations. When armed with an APS, the lack of passive armour will not really be a major issue.

WRT, the power plants of the tin cans. You have to figure out exactly how much de rating happenes on account or altitude and temperature. Then you have the figure out how much power to weight ratio is required to preserve the tactical mobility.

Which is the smallest power pack that can provide this powe and be fitted in the engine compartment of the tin cans. Because I am not really sure that the engine of the t 90 when fitted to the t72 can actually do the job at those altitudes.
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Post by sankum »

DRDO’s Light Tank Will Be Power Pack As “The Highest Altitude Operable Tank In The Globe”
http://www.businessworld.in/article/DRD ... 21-383371/
. The need of light weight tank is felt in today’s scenario especially for the mountainous regions. The configuration is worked out.

The USP of DRDO’s proposed light tank for the Indian Army is that it will be fitted with High Altitude Operable Power pack (Engine + Transmission) of 1000hp and will be capable of firing multiple ammunition. This tank may be called as “highest altitude operable tank in the globe”. The design work has commenced and we will bring out the timelines.
Latest reports say (can't say how much is true) that it is based on FMBT chassis with crew in front of chasis and crewless turret, weighs 35 T and mtu 1000 hp engine has been selected same as k9 vajra.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by sohamn »

Before everyone jumps on the light tank bandwagon, I would like to know what is our assessment with T-90s and T-72s in ladakh. Do they perform some tasks very poorly that we need a light tank. What is necessitating a light tank, although 35T is not a light tank. Its merely 5-7 tons less than a T-72. What is the extra benefit that a 35 Ton tank would provide.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Atmavik »

I to am sceptical of this light tank. If 50 Ton k 9 can be deployed so can the 45 ton T 90


It’s better to build a Stryker like platform based on krestel but krestel itself is relegated to para military
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by YashG »

Atmavik wrote:I to am sceptical of this light tank. If 50 Ton k 9 can be deployed so can the 45 ton T 90


It’s better to build a Stryker like platform based on krestel but krestel itself is relegated to para military
K9 will not be required to be as mobile and close range (where mobility will be even more reqd.) as a tank
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Post by hnair »

K9 + PGK fuses would be a great combo for stopping infantry advance and taking out the pink-roofed depots that the chinese like to set up.

Also, a narrow mountain road is not exactly suitable for leaving tank tracks like what the desperate pakis did at Longewala

Image

Which means some nicely placed PGK shots aft and front of a column in a switch-back part of a mountain road would have some serious turkey shoot scenarios. you just need to pump in regular 155mms once the column is stopped. Khan, if it is serious about Indo_Pac, could ship a few thousand PGKs, while the Indian version materializes.

Light tank is PLA's requirement, not necessarily IA's (unless we are looking at airdrop over Tibet). The light tanks make them appear competent in the mountains and also useful in future to break up any Tianenmen type rallies in Tibet. Dont know why this pops up once a while, probably some arms dealer push
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Post by Anoop »

To my mind, a very good case for K-9 in Ladakh is to use their high elevation in direct fire mode to clear PLA bunkers and observation posts on hilltops. This is important for IA because all our approaches to the LAC are in narrow valleys (Chang Chenmo valley being a good example) and many can put under PLA observation. We can't use un-armored truck mounted howitzers here for lack of protection and lack of offroad capability, despite what "roads" pass for in that terrain. The other aspect is the narrow valleys, requiring very high elevation angles to engage bunkers because there is no real estate to deploy in depth. Plus, Kargil has shown the value of using direct fire against hardened shelters. In that light, news of indigenous direct fire gun sights being developed for K-9 is significant.

Once the mountain tops are cleared, infantry and mech infantry can travel safely through the valleys to Aksai Chin, can occupy sites ourselves and engage PLA armored formations through ATGMs etc.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by k prasad »

hnair wrote:Light tank is PLA's requirement, not necessarily IA's (unless we are looking at airdrop over Tibet). The light tanks make them appear competent in the mountains and also useful in future to break up any Tianenmen type rallies in Tibet. Dont know why this pops up once a while, probably some arms dealer push
A light tank will help indicate an offensive posture from IA, and create counter-pressure on PLA.

Otherwise, we'll be forcing ourselves to constantly play defense in any kinetic situation on the LAC. With light tanks, we can put credible pressure and threats on the Tibetan plains, through Chushul and Demchok, and Depsang, which offers far better deterrance capabilities in case the PLA decides to try any mischief.

Why set ourselves up to fight on the backfoot by avoiding light tanks?
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by nachiket »

k prasad wrote: A light tank will help indicate an offensive posture from IA, and create counter-pressure on PLA.

Otherwise, we'll be forcing ourselves to constantly play defense in any kinetic situation on the LAC. With light tanks, we can put credible pressure and threats on the Tibetan plains, through Chushul and Demchok, and Depsang, which offers far better deterrance capabilities in case the PLA decides to try any mischief.

Why set ourselves up to fight on the backfoot by avoiding light tanks?
Is it impossible to use T-72's in these areas?
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

nachiket wrote:
k prasad wrote: A light tank will help indicate an offensive posture from IA, and create counter-pressure on PLA.

Otherwise, we'll be forcing ourselves to constantly play defense in any kinetic situation on the LAC. With light tanks, we can put credible pressure and threats on the Tibetan plains, through Chushul and Demchok, and Depsang, which offers far better deterrance capabilities in case the PLA decides to try any mischief.

Why set ourselves up to fight on the backfoot by avoiding light tanks?
Is it impossible to use T-72's in these areas?
There has been an Armd bed or regt in the are for the last 15 to 20 years if I an not mistaken
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by hnair »

k prasad, as others have pointed out, the MBTs with adequate turbocharging would do that and quite a few IA ones are already up there. The light tank for IA seems a brochure pushing effort which adds combat engineering load for questionable returns. Scouting or recce can be done by more nimbler wheeled vehicle with ATGM capability
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