BSF, CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion

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ASPuar
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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby ASPuar » 10 Dec 2009 15:53

Dmurphy wrote:^^ :shock:

With due respect, who are the ones actually in the line of fire right now and dying by enemy bullets each day? Navy? Air Force? Spare a thought for the poor CRPF guys and COBRAs who're fighting a cunning enemy in harsh jungles.


Alas, you misunderstand my line of thinking. When (and not even if), the next war happens, we will need a strong army, navy, and air force.

It hardly helps us to create a 700000 strong 'army' of poorly trained non-infantrymen, which will be of zero use in war (except BSF/ITBP/AR). And training will remain sub-par, so long as senior posts such as DG/ADG/IG/DIG rest largely in the hands of the Indian Police Service, who are trained largely as police administrators for peaceful towns and villages, and not at all for war like situations.

And secondly, these policemen are of dubious efficacy in the COIN role as well. Already, the results of the CRPF training being pitted against an even moderately committed, and definitely inferiorly equipped naxal adversary is resulting in heavy losses for the CRPF.

If nothing else, let the Anti-Naxal-CRPF/BSF/ITBP/SSB (those CPO's who are likely to have a more 'military' role), be placed under the Army, and given a DG/ADG's/IG's/DIG's from the Army. At least then, the training, recruitment, and survivability of these forces will increase! Otherwise, we are sending these boys into the jungle, without a chance. Look to the Assam Rifles, a CPO adminsitered by the army. They fight a more dangerous set of adversaries, in the north east rebels, who have been trained and aided by the chinese and banglas for the last 60 years. Yet, they are not picked off like chaff, like the CRPF men are. Look, even to the RR. Manned and officered by the army, they are a well trained and battle hardened force.

Training, and a toughened outlook are most essential. A soft civil police force, used to weilding lathis and taming a restive civil populace cannot fight desperados with guns.

My submission is, that as long as the CPO's are led by policemen, and imbued with a police spirit, they will remain incapable of resolute and efficient action against insurgents, and the young men of those forces will fall victim to the bad guys bullets. Till that basic fallacy of leadership is fixed, money poured into CPO's will be a waste, to my mind.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Dmurphy » 10 Dec 2009 17:49

ASPuar wrote:My submission is, that as long as the CPO's are led by policemen, and imbued with a police spirit, they will remain incapable of resolute and efficient action against insurgents, and the young men of those forces will fall victim to the bad guys bullets. Till that basic fallacy of leadership is fixed, money poured into CPO's will be a waste, to my mind.
I agree. But sir, per your analysis, the basic problem it seems, is that of priority rather than that of misallocation of funds -that of placing the CPMOs under Army leadership rather than equipping them better.

So the idea of providing funds to the front line soldiers in war on naxals isn't misplaced. Say, providing good BPJs, MPVs and UAVs will tend to improve the effecacy and survivability of even the weakest of forces. Don't you agree? And are they really that bad, that they'll be of "zero use" in war? That too after all the experience of fighting this war on naxals?

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Rahul M » 10 Dec 2009 17:58

ASPuar sahab, COIN is primarily a police and local intel job, it is not the army's job and neither should the army be asked to intervene. as for CRPF being incompetent, yes the plain jane CRPF which is normally used for riot control and election duty is inadequate but the specialised forces have acquitted themselves quite well. I'm talking of greyhound, COBRA etc.
the assam rifles model does not quite apply in case of an interior insurgency situation.

in fact, I believe the current strategy against naxalism is on its path to success in the longer run.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby bhart » 10 Dec 2009 18:08

A few points:
1. The casualties suffered by the paramilitaries are largely due to IEDs.
2. The senior posts in the CPMFs are not entirely manned by IPS officers. There is a separate system of recruitment into paramilitary forces. A non-IPS officer in these forces may rise up to the level of ADG. However, so far, the DG has normally been an IPS officer.
3. The officers at the Commandant level are generally non-IPS (those directly recruited to these forces)

I think the naxal problem is best dealt with by paramilitary forces with 'police' methods (as opposed to 'Army' methods), and it would be better if at least some of the officers are from the IPS since there is considerable interaction with state police. Also, the problems that are encountered by the paramilitary forces in the course of normal operations are not appreciated by many. Since these forces are supposed to operate in conjunction with state police, and in support of state administration, problems in the state machinery adversely affect the CPOs also.
Recent reports in the media talk of problems encountered in building a consensus for launching joint operations against the naxals.

Even so, better training and prompt provision of equipment will definitely help, along with parallel improvements in the state police apparatus.
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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Rahul M » 10 Dec 2009 18:20

just one thing to add, getting ex army folks to train and advise CPO's in COIN will however be a very good idea. some of that is already happening.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Sachin » 10 Dec 2009 20:30

Rahul M wrote: I'm talking of greyhound, COBRA etc.

Greyhounds was not even a CPMF. It was part of the A.P State Police force. They were policemen recruited from the state, the sub-ordinate staff being local people (HC,ASI,SI) and may be IPS people running the show at the Dy.Comdt, S.P, Comdt. levels. And they did a splendid job. I feel Greyhounds showed that even a state police unit, with good backup support (from police higher ups and the ruling govt.) can work wonders.

I feel local insurgencies have to be slowly managed by Police agencies (be it CPMF or the State Police). Army should be used for its original intended purpose. And of course their expertise in training, man-management etc. should be inculcated in the Police forces as well.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Rahul M » 10 Dec 2009 22:04

yes sachin, I was sloppy with that post. in fact the first naxalite menace, both in WB and kerala was destroyed almost completely by state police forces. it is only when there is a significant escalation in terms of weapons and tactics like in punjab, J&K and some parts of NE that a force like army is needed.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Brando » 10 Dec 2009 23:15

Sachin wrote:I feel local insurgencies have to be slowly managed by Police agencies (be it CPMF or the State Police).


The problem with State Police forces "managing" local insurgencies is that like in Andhra, they usually manage these insurgencies through extra-judical means. Usually resorting to "extra-judicial" methods of abduction, torture and summary executions of all sympathizers and even suspected Maoists. That is not a precedent that a democratic republic should encourage from local police forces even if it is highly effective. The other problem with state police is that their "determination" is completely dependent on the local political parties that come to power. Some being sympathetic to the Maoists let the police get run over while other take a hard line and let the police run loose unchecked. This seasonal policing is very dangerous as the security of people would depend on the vagaries of Politics in particular states.
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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby ramana » 11 Dec 2009 00:39

Brando, A couple of days ago there was a HR watch report on Brazilian police for using similar methods in Rio and Sao Paulo.

And can you use "extra-judicial" methods instead of Gestapo?

State polices already carry a big burden: pandu, corrupt, subject to political interference, what not without getting tagged as Nazi police.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby bhart » 11 Dec 2009 02:21

Whatever the problems that characterize state police forces, it would be better to try to remove their inadequacies (to the extent possible) than to leave them out of the loop altogether. Using CPMFs (and even the Army) creates its own set of problems.
Since the state police forces are from the same state where the insurgency is prevalent, and since they are normally from the same linguistic grouping, there is a better chance that they can understand local issues than members of other organizations, not to mention the fact that they can build intelligence networks more easily.
So far as the Maoist problem is concerned, I think anyone who has followed the issue would be aware that awareness of local conditions is a prerequisite. Also, increased intake of members of tribal populations into groupings/forces involved in fighting the Maoists is another factor that needs to be taken into account.
Countering Maoists would require establishing a permanent and credible presence of police and development machinery, and establishing rule of law through the judicial system. While the CPMFs can help create a window of opportunity for the state to re-establish its presence, it would have to be maintained permanently - something which is only possible if the state police plays its part.

Lastly, I would like to point out that it is more a question of calibrating the extent and nature of responsibilities given to each organization - everyone has a role.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Sachin » 14 Dec 2009 15:41

Brando wrote:The problem with State Police forces "managing" local insurgencies is that like in Andhra, they usually manage these insurgencies through extra-judical means.

And how would introduction on the Army change this? Remember the hue and cry about the special rights which Army has in insurgency effected areas in India? There has been allegations of "encounter deaths" against the Army too.

bhart wrote:Whatever the problems that characterize state police forces, it would be better to try to remove their inadequacies (to the extent possible) than to leave them out of the loop altogether.

Yes, the feeling that if Army comes and do the policing job, every thing becomes hunky-dory needs to get changed. We need to keep the Army for its original purpose, i.e defending the borders. The civil agencies for law and order (police), disaster relief (fire brigade etc.) etc. should be used for their intended purpose. If they are not adequate, provide them with better training, equipments etc. Or else in the long run, Army gets into all kind of activities which it is not intended for, and also make the civil agencies take a lethargic stance knowing that Army would be called out in case of serious events.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby ASPuar » 14 Dec 2009 18:41

Let me say this:

1. I am absolutely in favour of the army not being involved in CI operations, and instead training, defending the nation, and preparing for war tasks.

2. I am absolutely in favour of these operations being taken over by another agency.

3. I do not think that police forces, as they stand in India are capable of performing a CI role, because they are:

(A) Essentially organized for maintenance of public order, and not for CI ops.

(B) Still stuck in the colonial era methodology of policing, ie firing in air for dispersal, lathi charge, etc etc.

(C) Heavily compromised due to deliberate cultivation of close relationship with political elements, for personal gain.

(D) Themselves held to a very low standard of probity, which has caused corruption to become a serious threat to the credibility of the force.

(E) Not trained to military standards (which is fine, because they are a police force, but then they must surrender paramilitary leadership functions to armed forces officers).


4. I think that domination of CPO's (paramilitaries) by Police leadership, has caused them too to become ineffective against a variety of terror threats. I think that some time under the army leadership will stiffen them, and guide them towards being better in this role.

5. I am absolutely not in favour of the army being told that "no need to bother, police will handle everything" when everything is fine, and all one needs to do is simply enjoy fancy titles like "Inspector General, Commissioner, DGP, etc", but when the proverbial cr@p hits the fan, military being called frantically, and then blamed for tardiness (a la mumbai attacks, where police leadership seems to have failed the citizenry, and even some of its more brave and intrepid officers (Salaskar, Kamtekar, Ongle, et al), terribly, and done the armed forces a disservice by attempting to claim the credit later). Indeed, the late Mr. Kamte's widow has specifically accused certain police personnel of showing cowardice, and refusing to leave their control rooms when the attacks began, in a stark contrast to the bravery of the deceased policemen.

6. Nothing I say casts any doubt on the capability and motivation of the honest, and upright policeman. Nevertheless, the job of these upright policemen is maintenance of civil law and order, maintaining safe neighborhoods, and keeping the peace, and they are trained for that. They should not posit themselves into paramilitary activities such as mountain warfare (ITBP/SSB), and border guarding (BSF). These tasks fall more into the realm of the armed forces, and as such should be overseen by them!

In answer to Bhart's comments:

1. CPO officers emphatically do not decide policy in their organizations. There is one ADG each from the CRPF and BSF cadres, and both have mere months left to serve. They are essentially appointed as a sop to cadre officers, and have little functional value.

2. The high casualties of CPO personnel in naxal ops are a result of poor training, briefing, tactics and orientation, regardless of whether they are caused by bullets, or IED's or even bows and arrows.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby bhart » 14 Dec 2009 22:48

If there is to be any change in the situation, it can come about only if the following steps are undertaken:
1. The training is improved substantially
2. Proper equipment is provided to them
3. Substantial changes in the structure, training, recruitment, control of state police forces - right from the constabulary to the State Police Services - should be brought about
4. Indian Police Act 1861 is replaced/updated
5. Implementation of the reforms suggested by the Supreme Court
6. Drastic changes in the training of IPS officers

A lot of the measures are not directly related to the paramilitary forces themselves, but given the degree of cooperation between the CPMFs and the state police forces, they are necessary. It is because of limitations of the state machinery that CPMFs are pushed into taking steps which worsen situations that are already adverse. It is also because of these factors that I think that these forces should continue to be manned by police officers. However, specialized courses, the performance in which is taken into consideration for promotion and postings should be organized for IPS and non-IPS officers. Also, only officers with a sufficiently high performance rating should be deputed to these forces.

The point is, it is time we started investing in these forces instead of taking them for granted. Now is the time to change not only paramilitary and state police forces, but also our idea of policing.

Of course, I do not expect any of this to happen even though some of these are steps that various commissions set up by the government have talked about. It has always been about 'making do', and it is not likely to change anytime soon.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby sunny y » 15 Dec 2009 16:22

Centre plans NSG hub, CoBRA unit in every state

http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/dec/ ... -state.htm

Mr. Chidambram is pretty serious guy. Go sir, it's been a long time since we last saw a Home Minister who actually believes in doing instead of only talking.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Jamal K. Malik » 18 Dec 2009 17:09

CRPF to induct 38 new Battalions in the coming years
New Delhi, Dec 18 (PTI) CRPF will induct about 38 Battalions (about 40,000 personnel) in the coming years, Home Minister P Chidambaram today said.

Speaking at a CRPF function here, Chidambaram said while three more Battalions would be raised this year, making the strength of the world's largest paramilitary force swell to 210 Battalion, 35 more would be inducted in the coming years.

"At present, the CRPF strength is about 2.5 lakh which will grow to about 3.7 to 4 lakh personnel when 35 more Battalions are recruited," Chidambaram said.


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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Karna_A » 19 Dec 2009 00:14

There hasn't been a War since 1971. Kargil was more like a border war than an actual War. That would have meant Army officers going from 2nd Lt to Lt General without ever facing a single bullet.
CI is the new way of war and army should have specialized divisions for that.
The only thing is all foreign terrorists should be treated as spies and tried and hanged in a military court within a month as happened to Nazi spies
http://www.americainwwii.com/stories/na ... shore.html
Just like cavalry changed to mechanized formations, the new form of war is against terrorists as under nuclear shadow, large convetional wars and occupation of enemy cities is not possible in south asian context.

ASPuar wrote:Let me say this:

1. I am absolutely in favour of the army not being involved in CI operations, and instead training, defending the nation, and preparing for war tasks.

.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Aditya G » 09 Jan 2010 21:18

Any inputs on the underlined jargon?

http://chhindits.blogspot.com/2010/01/a ... lions.html

Assam Rifles will have 26 new battalions over a period of time, to be deployed on the Indo-Myanmar border. Speaking on the occassion of the 175th year of the Assam Rifles, which is administratively under the Ministry of Home Affairs, but works operationally with the Indian Army, the Director General (DG)-Assam Rifles, Lt Gen K S Yadava (photo on the right), said here today that the current 46 battalions were inadequate, and therefore there was a proposal to raise more. Roughly a battalion has 1000 troops.

The new battalions would come into existence in a phased manner, around 3-4 in a year, and would aid the civil administration to check drug trafficking along the 1600 kilometer porous border, smuggling, insurgents infiltrating into the Indian side and would also be deployed in counter-insurgency roles. The battalions would function under the Free Movement Regime (FMR). :?:

For the first time Assam Rifles would send a Company level contingent to the UN, as Form Police Unit (FPU), after training them for 5-6 months. They would carry out similar roles as other para-military forces in UN missions.

The DG also said that 50 percent of the lower cadres of ULFA, which were around 200, were from Bangladesh. The lower cadres carried out small day-to-day basis missions.


http://mha.nic.in/pdfs/BM_MAN-IN-MYAN(E).pdf

Assam Rifles has been deployed for counter-insurgency and border guarding role on this border. Out of sanctioned strength of 46 battalions, 31 battalions are for counter-insurgency and 15 are for border guarding role. Presently, all 15 border guarding battalions are deployed along Indo-Myanmar border on Company Operating Base (COB) :?: approach, not as per the BOP system. The companies are deployed on all routes of ingress/egress and are checking infiltration, smuggling of arms, ammunition, drugs, fake currency notes etc.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Gaur » 10 Jan 2010 11:46

Karna_A wrote:
ASPuar wrote:Let me say this:

1. I am absolutely in favour of the army not being involved in CI operations, and instead training, defending the nation, and preparing for war tasks.

There hasn't been a War since 1971. Kargil was more like a border war than an actual War. That would have meant Army officers going from 2nd Lt to Lt General without ever facing a single bullet.
CI is the new way of war and army should have specialized divisions for that.
The only thing is all foreign terrorists should be treated as spies and tried and hanged in a military court within a month as happened to Nazi spies
http://www.americainwwii.com/stories/na ... shore.html
Just like cavalry changed to mechanized formations, the new form of war is against terrorists as under nuclear shadow, large convetional wars and occupation of enemy cities is not possible in south asian context.

Kargil was border warfare? What is border warfare exactly? A war that is fought at border? If so, then all wars that India has fought have been border warfare? Please enlighten me.
Kargil warfare was nothing similar to regular CI ops. Pakistan had "occupied" a part of our territory. We retaliated and took it back. The techniques used were of mountain warfare not of CI ops. Just because both CI ops and Kargil war took place in Kashmir, does not mean that the techniques used in both were the same.
In CI ops, Terrorists do not sit on top of a peak firing down heavy machine gun while both sides exchange artillery barrage on enemy positions and supply lines.
I, for myself, fail to understand any similarity b/n a typical CI op and a Mountain War like that of Kargil.
I also fully agree with ASPuar that it is not the job of IA to engage in CI ops. It adversely affects IA's war preparation activities, its main job during peace time. India has CPO force of sufficient strength for this job. They and local police should be prepared with adequate training and equipment to deal with CI ops.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby ASPuar » 10 Jan 2010 17:21

Karna_A wrote:There hasn't been a War since 1971. Kargil was more like a border war than an actual War. That would have meant Army officers going from 2nd Lt to Lt General without ever facing a single bullet.


Interesting... are you under the impression that not even one officer faced a single bullet in Kargil, the "Border War"? Perhaps this level of public familiarity with the difficulties facing our armed forces in the execution of their duties, is what is causing them to face such dreadful service conditions.

If we have "strategists" on forums declaring Kargil a "border war", and thus insignificant as far as military experience for wars is concerned, (I wonder how insignificant you would find the border war, if there were 155mm shells exploding all around you), then I think we are in big doodoo as a country.

As for specialized CT divisions, well, I can tell you, that this only tends towards falling into the "limited threat mindset" trap. The moment the army revamps itself to fight terror, our enemies will not sit idle.

Finally, the question is, that if the army must form "CT divisions" (whatever those might be), then why are we expanding the CPO's, for supposedly the same role? Lets wind them up! (NB: Im not suggesting this is feasible, simply outlining how outlandish the slippery slope grows, relatively fast!).

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby RayC » 10 Jan 2010 18:22

Kargil was a border war.

It was fought at the border and we did not penetrate into POK if that is what you meant. Hence, it was different from other wars.

However, if you feel it was not a war, then you should have walked the NH1A.

If Kargil Ops was not a war with all its dangers, I wonder why officers and soldiers died.

Lack of oxygen?

Yes, I am being obtuse since I find your statement insulting to the dead who died for you!

Karna_A wrote:
There hasn't been a War since 1971. Kargil was more like a border war than an actual War. That would have meant Army officers going from 2nd Lt to Lt General without ever facing a single bullet.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby RayC » 10 Jan 2010 18:30

Rahul M wrote:ASPuar sahab, COIN is primarily a police and local intel job, it is not the army's job and neither should the army be asked to intervene. as for CRPF being incompetent, yes the plain jane CRPF which is normally used for riot control and election duty is inadequate but the specialised forces have acquitted themselves quite well. I'm talking of greyhound, COBRA etc.
the assam rifles model does not quite apply in case of an interior insurgency situation.

in fact, I believe the current strategy against naxalism is on its path to success in the longer run.


COIN has always been the Army's task the world over.

Internal Security is a part of the Army's task and COIN is a part of it.

The Army should also not be called in for riot control! Should not have been in Gujarat?

Army is called in when all other forces have failed. I agree that to be safe, they are called in first in many instances!

Assam Rifles are doing a great job!
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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Bheem » 10 Jan 2010 18:36

Kargill was full scale war with Artillery, IAF action. Am sure there are lot of things which services do not talk about which also made it into a full war. 500 of our brave soldiers died. Yes Sir, it was a war!

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Gaur » 10 Jan 2010 20:56

RayC wrote:COIN has always been the Army's task the world over.

Internal Security is a part of the Army's task and COIN is a part of it.

The Army should also not be called in for riot control! Should not have been in Gujarat?

Army is called in when all other forces have failed. I agree that to be safe, they are called in first in many instances!

Assam Rifles are doing a great job!

If COIN you mean guarding the borders and stopping terrorists from crossing, then perhaps it is IA's job (though till the force is not large enough to threaten our territorial sovereignty, I have my doubts even here). But if you are saying that it is IA's job to engage in CT operations inside our villages and cities (like in Kashmir and NE), I would have to respectfully disagree.
As you said COIN is part of "internal security". But internal security is by default the job of CPOs and State police. However, you also wisely said that when all the other forces have failed, army is called (like Gujrat). But the problem is that generally other forces do not have the will, nor do they care, to complete the job and hence are doomed to fail. Hence IA gets called for everything. Naxalism is also Internal Security. Should IA be called for that too?
IA cannot do everything just because others do not care to even try do their job.
NSG SAG(filled by IA soldiers) also deals with Internal Security Security. But nearly no equivalent force in the world asks their respective army for their soldiers for this job. Suddenly so many new NSG hubs have been set up requiring thousands of IA soldiers(their best). How will they provide while keeping their edge in COIN operations too?
If IA was not busy and distributed because of CT operations, would its war preparation not have been relatively better?
Instead is it not ideal for CPOs to be better trained and equipped to deal with their job? After all why are we keeping such a large CPO force for? Why should your and mine tax be wasted on a force that is not their job?
No one would mind if CPOs at least tried hard to do their job (while being adequately trained and equipped by govt). If even then they failed and IA was asked to do the job, it was all right. But the present situation is not something to my taste.
Sir, you are a soldier. And like all good and well trained soldiers, you will do the job you are told to do. Govt says killing terrorists in J&K and NE is your job, you will believe it without question. But when you put your life on the line and your men die just because the right people do not care to even try, is it fair to you and your soldiers?

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Aditya G » 24 Jan 2010 10:46

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/web1/10jan24/news.htm#4

National Highway security
Two CRPF bns mobilised from internal resources

Excelsior Correspondent

JAMMU, Jan 23: Two battalions of para-military Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) have been mobilised from internal resources while one additional battalion of the Border Security Force (BSF) is being deputed to Jammu for deployment on Jammu-Srinagar national highway to replace Army as announced by the Centre.

However, the change will take place only after Republic Day celebrations, official sources said.

During his recent visit to Jammu, Defence Minister A K Antony had announced that the Union Home Ministry had ordered replacement of Army from security duty on the National Highway with CRPF from January 15.

As the decision was conveyed to the State only a couple of days before January 15 deadline, the authorities have decided that the changeover of security system on 300 kms long national highway, the only road link to Kashmir, will take place after January 26.

Two battalions of the CRPF are being freed from internal security duty for deployment on the highway, sources said, adding the Centre has agreed to give one additional BSF battalion to the State for highway duty.

The new BSF battalion was expected to reach here after January 26.

Each CRPF and BSF battalion comprised 100 security personnel and authorities were confident that the three battalions would meet requirement of security duty on the national highway.

"Three battalions would be enough for highway security", a police officer said. However, he added, police would have to take over security of hinterland from where two CRPF battalions would be mobilised for highway duty.

Police was gradually taking over security related duty in upper reaches of Doda, Kishtwar and Ramban districts besides twin border districts of Poonch and Rajouri. Recently, police have also carried out a number of successful operations against the militants independently, he said.

According to sources, Kud to Qazigund stretch of Jammu-Srinagar National Highway was still militancy prone where a strict guard has to be maintained by the CRPF after taking over security of the vital road link.

It was on this part of the road that the militants quite often succeed in planting Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs) on the National Highway in wee hours of the morning to target security forces and civilian vehicles.

The IEDs were mostly neutralised by Road Opening Parties (ROPs) of Army.

According to sources, a number of militants and their over ground cadre was still active along side the highway which managed to plant the IEDs to trigger blasts. Convoy of vehicles on vulnerable zones of the highway is allowed only after the ROPs sanitise the road daily in the morning.

Sources said the takeover of highway security by the CRPF was likely after January 26 when the administration will be fully freed from Republic Day celebrations for which tight security arrangements have been made in anticipation of a militant strike.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby sum » 25 Jan 2010 08:59

MCA students develop security system for CRPF

The software, which helps the Centre store every essential detail of a visitor in digitised format, was said to be so impressive that the CRPF has now proposed expanding it to its group centres across the country.

The CRPF Centre upgraded its security system by installing the software early this month. Son of a CRPF personnel and a second year student of Hebbal’s Presidency College, Mahantesh N developed the software along with two classmates, Ranjith Jose and Mansoor Ali M T, as part of their college project.

Besides recording digitised data of a visitor, the software also generates a unique number which is stuck on the visitor’s pass before he/she finds entry into the CRPF establishment. Needless to say, the software helps CRPF keep a tab on the visitor.

Having lived in four group centres before, Mahantesh realised that keeping manual records was time-consuming for the Paramilitary Force. “Having lived on the CRPF campus, I thought why not upgrade the system, which would make data collection faster and easier.” He then approached DIGP K Arkesh, who was impressed with the project and decided to implement it.

Good stuff...

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby putnanja » 30 Jan 2010 03:38

Sisters in arms on China vigil

...
The village girl from Jalpaiguri was one of 209 trainees who today formed the first armed women’s contingent of the Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP), which guards the China border.

“Urdi portey bhishon bhalo lage. Urdi porey aar haate weapon niye chola deshke bachabar jonne shob theke bhalo kaaj. Aar poribarer bhobishyot bhalo hobe (I love the uniform. Wearing it and carrying a gun to ensure the country’s security is the best thing one can do. It will provide my family with a better future too),” Deepali said.
...
...
Most of the recruits come from poor backgrounds. They are the daughters of midwives, labourers, farmers and police constables from places as far away as Arunachal Pradesh and Jammu and Kashmir, Tamil Nadu and Jharkhand.

Rubi, from Digboi in Assam, was proud to be the first from her family to join the security forces. “Did you see us marching? Can anyone say we are the weaker sex?” she sounded excited.
...
...
All the women underwent 44 weeks’ training since last February, doing gruelling drills and learning to handle weapons, read maps and gather intelligence. They took courses in vigilance, yoga, unarmed combat (judo), commando tactics and the management of natural calamities.

They will now be given intensive counter-insurgency, jungle warfare and bomb disposal training in Uttarakhand so that an independent women’s battalion can be raised in future with four companies of around 100 personnel each.

The 209 recruited as constables today include seven postgraduates. The next batch of 145 women trainees will be recruited in May.


...
...

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby putnanja » 30 Jan 2010 03:43

CRPF, BSF bhai-bhai: Brothers to head forces

For the first time ever, two brothers are set to lead the country's two biggest paramilitary forces -- Central Reserve Police Force and Border Security Force -- with around 370,000 men under their command.

The brothers -- both IPS officers of the 1973 batch -- are set to make history with the government on Friday deciding to appoint the younger one, Vikram Srivastava, as the chief of India's largest paramilitary force, CRPF, at a time when his elder brother Raman Srivastava is heading the country's second largest paramilitary force, BSF.
...
...

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Craig Alpert » 30 Jan 2010 08:18


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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby kaangeya » 31 Jan 2010 02:27

Interesting... are you under the impression that not even one officer faced a single bullet in Kargil, the "Border War"? Perhaps this level of public familiarity with the difficulties facing our armed forces in the execution of their duties, is what is causing them to face such dreadful service conditions.


ASP well said. During the Kargil War the Indian and foreign press was full of Chairborne/Keyboard commandos pontificating about "light hi tech" forces, surgical strikes and the like. After the experience of massa in the last 8 years, the voices have become fainter, with grudging respect for the Indian military. One heavily armed soldier with Star Trek type headset and camera carrying a small arsenal on his person is not equivalent to a Ghatak troop of mean :evil: :evil: guys who skin a T-Rex for fun. Paradoxically it is the Indian military that in modern times has re-established offensive doctrine about multi-pronged, multi-level attacks with a bunch of specialists with capability to escalate indefinitely. Battle too like war is fought asymmetrically. A Bofors barrage + aerial LGB + coup de grace by Ghataks is the way to go. Not to simply drone and bomb and then drop light and expert grunts only to let them be overwhelmed. Kargil was a full scale offensive action not some skirmish. No one has ever fought and won at such heights. This was 10-15 Haji Pir standard victories.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Avinash R » 31 Jan 2010 21:08

Ranjit Kumar takes over as ITBP chief
Sun, Jan 31 05:08 PM
New Delhi, Jan 31 (IANS) National Disaster Response Force chief Ranjit Bhatia Sunday took over as the director general of the Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP).

A 1974-batch Indian Police Service officer of Uttar Pradesh cadre, Bhatia took over from Vikram Srivastava, who will now head the country's largest paramilitary force, Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF).

Bhatia has served in Uttar Pradesh police, the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI), the Cabinet Secretariat and the Central Industrial Security Force (CISF).

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Craig Alpert » 06 Feb 2010 00:39

No free diet to CRPF personnel in hospitals
NEW DELHI: With the revised pay structure, the CRPF personnel are facing a unique problem -- jawans admitted in its hospitals are no longer entitled to free diet.

Prior to the implementation of 6th Pay Commission recommendations, jawans were getting free diet based on the pay scale limits set earlier. But now, the monetary ceiling for providing free diet to admitted patients has been fixed up to Rs 7,450 per month, sources said.

The same has been fixed at Rs 11,160 per month for severely sick patients and those suffering from TB.

As the salary of all personnel is revised, most of the constables have been placed in the pay scale of more than the new set limit for free diet.

This has resulted in many jawans not getting free diet from hospitals, the sources said, adding the CRPF has now written to the Ministry of Home Affairs proposing that the limits for getting free diet should be increased.

When asked about the matter, an official said, "This is just a technical issue. All personnel's dietary requirements are duly taken care of."

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby ASPuar » 13 Feb 2010 22:45

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 568631.cms

14 BSF men suspended over Kashmir teenager's killing

Acting on the recommendations of the BSF, the Union Home Ministry today issued the suspension orders of Birdi, the Commandant of 68th Battalion, and confined him to the local headquarters pending an inquiry by an officer of the rank of Inspector General.

As per rules, action against a Commandant-level officer can be taken only under orders of the Home Ministry.

The action against Birdi came in the wake of statements reportedly made by constable Lakhwinder Kumar who had allegedly opened fire on 16-year-old Kashmiri boy Zahid Farooq Shah. The constable is understood to have told the Jammu and Kashmir police that he had opened fire under the orders of the Commandant, which he has denied.



These are some strange rules if action can "only be taken under the orders of the home ministry". More likely, action is reccommended by the superior officer, and the HM orders the commencement of a court of enquiry type proceeding.

At any rate, a pathetic case, and just the sort of thing that gives the enemy an upper hand. The man who ordered/did this, should be put through the highest exemplary punishment, or else, it will only be used by anti nationals to put forward their agenda.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby ASPuar » 13 Feb 2010 22:50

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 555616.cms

BSF says its personnel involved in J&K teenager's killing

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby ASPuar » 13 Feb 2010 22:57

:evil:

The government needs to act on this resolutely. God knows that Sopore created enough of a blackeye for Indias principled stand in Kashmir, and created many a terrorist. Whatever idiot caused this to happen needs to be crucified.

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Sandipan » 14 Feb 2010 21:00


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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby atreya » 15 Feb 2010 21:46

http://in.news.yahoo.com/20/20100215/14 ... sh-on.html
:( :(

Eastern Frontier Rifles? Heard of em for the first time
And I didn't like the last part.
whiling away their time in the camp
. "Whiling"? :shock: Could have used a better word for it!

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby ASPuar » 15 Feb 2010 22:16

Might be a WB state government force, like the so called "Bihar Military Police" or AP "Greyhounds". The CRPF etc would probably make for a tougher target, so the Maoist scum've tried to take out their frustration on these poor fellows.

This "Senior Police Official" should take a course in sensitivity/language.

:(

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Sachin » 16 Feb 2010 17:22

ASPuar wrote:Might be a WB state government force, like the so called "Bihar Military Police"

Agree with you here. "Bihar Military Police" and "East Frontier Rifles" even though are named like military units are infact Armed Police battalions of the respective state police forces. At the best they may be trained in riot control and the classic act of lathi charge.

From the way Maoists pulled their latest stunt, it looks like this "Rifles" unit are not fit for any counter insurgency role. It is sad to see that WB Govt. is putting ill-trained, and ill-equipped people to fight the Maoists. Looks like many of the state governments (having Naxal problems) expect the CPOs to do the dirty job.

Personally, I feel names like "Bihar Military Police" etc. should be scrapped and given a more civil police sounding nomenclature.
or AP "Greyhounds".

Dont compare AP "Greyhounds" with "Bihar Military Police" :eek:. Andhra Pradesh Police's Greyhounds were the pioneers in dealing with naxalite goons in an effective manner. This is a state police unit specially raised to deal with naxal menace. They may have got their initial trainings from other police organisations or the Army, but then they were alone. And this lone force made the Naxals run from AP and hide in Jharkhand, Orissa etc.

The only tragedy which befell the Greyhounds were in Orissa when a boat in which they were travelling were ambushed by Maoists and sunk. IIRC 22 Policemen died in this incident. This was also because the Greyhounds were operating in an area not familiar to them, and they had to take help of local police (who had no clue on the game plans of naxalites).

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby atreya » 16 Feb 2010 20:31

The name, "Eastern Frontier Rifles" suggests of a border force, rather than armed police. I have no knowledge of how units are named, but a rifles unit points towards the Army or paramilitary.
As for the "senior police official", he should have been in the camp himself and taught EFR jawans how not to "while away" their time :evil:

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Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Surya » 16 Feb 2010 20:45

One feels sorry for these poor guys - ill trained, led badly - falling victim again and again

way too many units - need to collapse and streamline these


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