BSF, CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 21 Oct 2009 22:45

Surya wrote:The Fin Man guys have a point
The lazy asses at MHA have basically let the Army struggle with the whole CI process.
with all these battalions of CPMF being built up - why can't they shore up and take ove the CI role.
Eventually funding will come through - but this is a bureaucratic battle and the MHA tryng not to be accountable.

That a day will come when the Army need not perform CI is plain wishful thinking IMHO. With kind of jehadi war that is being fought on a day to day basis in J&K for last 20 years, with even grave threat "3 hours away from Islamabad" waiting to attack India, the Army should remain involved in the fight. Let RR, TA and AR be the way IA will fight the terrorist. 'Proper' IA need not be CI unless it is the units who are guarding the LoC. I am not sure the exact status today, but regular army troops and BSF has largely been withdrawn from J&K.

Army being the Army, it will always be a more potent fighting force than CRPF. We need RR for the forseeable future!

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 21 Oct 2009 23:03

Aditya G wrote: I am not sure the exact status today, but regular army troops and BSF has largely been withdrawn from J&K.

Wrong. IA has only been withdrawn from Cities. And frankly, how many cities does J&k have?
Also all the major terrorists hideouts are generally not found in cities. Look at all the news about various terrorist area commanders killed. I don't remember any of them being killed in a city.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 21 Oct 2009 23:08

Aditya

As ASPUAR pointed out in some other conversation - then why have the CPMFs.

The Army should be a last resort but it has got sucked into everything - now Naxals.

Again no one is arguing that RR should not be funded - but what has the MHA done since RR was constituted to reduce the RRs role and let the CPMFs deal with it.

They are increasing numbers but no major rethink in org or structure etc.

All I am saying is the FinMan has a valid question ( of course one wishes it would have this much enthu on non defence related areas )

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 22 Oct 2009 09:44

^Central Security forces are withdrawn from time to time for election duty. Even a few weeks of breathing space for terrorists will help in building their depleted weapons dumps and go on the offensive. So units like RR which are permanently stationed in the same area and wont be used for election duty will still be needed in the foreseeable future unless EC stops using CRPF and BSF for election duty.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 22 Oct 2009 15:29

Finance has made a very valid point. What are the CPO's raising hundreds of new bn's every year for? If they were to fight in Kashmir, that seems to have been shelved, with the CPO's having left the fight to the army.

The much hoo-haa'd over Anti-Naxal fight seems to exist only in the newsrooms of Aaj Tak and NDTV India, and P Chidambramji's press conferences. On the ground, nothing seems to be happening, and Naxals seem to be beheading cops and killing politicians with impunity.

The North East insurgency, the CPO's have washed their hands off of, and it is an Army controlled CPO, the Assam Rifles which is doing all the fighting.

So. Kashmir - Army is taking care of it. North East - Army's taking care of it. Border? Army is taking care of it. So what is left? Why are we spending money on the CPO's?

Finance raises an important point. Why are all these organisations being made so large? So that a few more chaps can sit in white air conditioned ambassador cars, with flags flying on them, and blue lights flashing? When will all these men be given some gainful employment?

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 22 Oct 2009 15:37

Avinash R wrote:^Central Security forces are withdrawn from time to time for election duty. Even a few weeks of breathing space for terrorists will help in building their depleted weapons dumps and go on the offensive. So units like RR which are permanently stationed in the same area and wont be used for election duty will still be needed in the foreseeable future unless EC stops using CRPF and BSF for election duty.

I am a bit surprised by your post. Let us see, how many personnel there are in the CPO's.

BSF -- 2,12,000
CRPF - 2,32,000
CISF -- 1,45,000
ITBP -- 60,500
SSB -- 85,800
SFF -- 10,000

So lets put it all together (I need a calculator), that comes to 7,45,300!! All in infantry batallions!! Thats FAR more infantrymen than the army has. Note that I havent included RR or AR in this total, since theyre under the army. But the RR has about 60,000 personnel, and the AR, 50,000.

Even if you completely get rid of the AR and the RR, that figure doesnt even add up to HALF the BSF's strength. Tell me. Let us assume that the govt replaces the RR completely with the CPO's. 60000 CPO men deployed in COIN ops.

Now please tell me. That still leaves us with 6,85,300 CPO troopers. Please tell me, do our elections really use SIX LAKH EIGHtY THOUSAND TROOPERS? I wonder how we ever conducted elections earlier?

What are we doing with this enormous manpower? Shouldnt our army be released from COIN duty and allowed to train for war?

According to the MHA, there are 621 CPO batallions (not including AR or RR). 621! Thats a huge number.

The entire Indian ARMY only has about 400 infantry batallions. Should we not be a bit surprised that nevertheless, it is the army that is called upon to do everything, despite the existence of this massive trained force of seven lakh forty five thousand men under the MHA?

Finance has every right to question. It must! And the army should encourage it to question, strongly, why it is being forced to do everything from officering NSG, to fighting in Kashmir, to the north east, whilst the CPO's, at their current size, guard the cities of Kashmir.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 22 Oct 2009 16:20

^^ A small nitpick.
BSF, SSB, ITBT, SSF are not CPOs.
Nor are AR and RR. They are CPF. But I guess you already knew that.
Anyways, I get your point and totally agree with you. Its high time that Police and Paramilitary takes over from army as far as COIN and NSG are concerned. But unfortunately, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

ParGha · Post by **ParGha** » 22 Oct 2009 16:35

ASPuar wrote:Finance has made a very valid point. What are the CPO's raising hundreds of new bn's every year for? If they were to fight in Kashmir, that seems to have been shelved, with the CPO's having left the fight to the army.

Hundreds of battalions every year? By your own numbers, that would mean that they double in size every 1.5 years... which is not happening. Don't see this as an Army vs. Constabulary/Police -- both are needed in separate spheres. I agree that pulling the Army into internal security duties for so long is a corrosive practice. In certain cases the Army can be called in to address serious threats to internal security, but not for decades on end. However the police question is also legitimately different. Despite your seeming large numbers, India is a very lightly policed country: India has about half the number of police as the United States (a fellow democracy, with 1/3 the population), and about a tenth the number of police as the PRC (a country of approximately the same pop. as India). Much more police forces are needed, along with other national infrastructure - not just in J&K and NE, but all over the country. Incidentally I wish the Army brass stopped giving the GoI cop out solutions (all pun intended) to the policing problem.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 22 Oct 2009 17:07

We need a lot more CPMF

there is no doubt

But first they need to be made more effective.

We are an underpoliced country

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 22 Oct 2009 17:31

ASPuar
Do you have a link/source for the numbers of MHA troops you've mentioned ?

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 22 Oct 2009 22:09

Ok, MHA website used to have the figures, but have removed them. Heres the list, Ill add as I go along.

Starting with CRPF.
Slightly out of date. Says 207 bns.

http://crpf.nic.in/crp_b.htm

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 22 Oct 2009 22:11

Gaur wrote:^^ A small nitpick.
BSF, SSB, ITBT, SSF are not CPOs.
Nor are AR and RR. They are CPF. But I guess you already knew that.
Anyways, I get your point and totally agree with you. Its high time that Police and Paramilitary takes over from army as far as COIN and NSG are concerned. But unfortunately, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I dont know about that. MHA refers to them all as Central Police Organisations.

http://mha.nic.in/uniquepage.asp?Id_Pk=564

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 22 Oct 2009 22:36

Wrong. IA has only been withdrawn from Cities. And frankly, how many cities does J&k have?

AFAIK there is no large scale CI operations by Army in urban areas of J&K. Even RR is mostly in the countryside with ops in smaller towns like Shopian when required. The cities are held by CRPF and BSF.

ASPuar wrote: I am a bit surprised by your post. Let us see, how many personnel there are in the CPO's.

BSF -- 2,12,000
CRPF - 2,32,000
CISF -- 1,45,000
ITBP -- 60,500
SSB -- 85,800
SFF -- 10,000

So lets put it all together (I need a calculator), that comes to 7,45,300!! All in infantry batallions!! Thats FAR more infantrymen than the army has. Note that I havent included RR or AR in this total, since theyre under the army. But the RR has about 60,000 personnel, and the AR, 50,000.

Even if you completely get rid of the AR and the RR, that figure doesnt even add up to HALF the BSF's strength. Tell me. Let us assume that the govt replaces the RR completely with the CPO's. 60000 CPO men deployed in COIN ops.

Now please tell me. That still leaves us with 6,85,300 CPO troopers. Please tell me, do our elections really use SIX LAKH EIGHtY THOUSAND TROOPERS? I wonder how we ever conducted elections earlier?

What are we doing with this enormous manpower? Shouldnt our army be released from COIN duty and allowed to train for war?

According to the MHA, there are 621 CPO batallions (not including AR or RR). 621! Thats a huge number.

The entire Indian ARMY only has about 400 infantry batallions. Should we not be a bit surprised that nevertheless, it is the army that is called upon to do everything, despite the existence of this massive trained force of seven lakh forty five thousand men under the MHA?

Finance has every right to question. It must! And the army should encourage it to question, strongly, why it is being forced to do everything from officering NSG, to fighting in Kashmir, to the north east, whilst the CPO's, at their current size, guard the cities of Kashmir.

ASP, I concur on the Finmin's questioning. They are not necessarily asking "Why do we need the RR?", rather the question is "Why you raised so many CPOs?", perhaps an inter ministry politicking?.

With regards to the numbers raised:

BSF, ITBP and SSB are strictly to protect the borders. Army is not for protecting the IB or LAC, they are only guarding the LoC and AGPL. I think we all know how unprotected our Bangladesh, Rajasthan and LAC borders are. So in a sense their numbers are justified. Unfortunately these forces are still called for counter insurgency.

SFF is a specliast force which is technically neither a CPMF nor a CPO. It is a force under the Cabinet Secretariat i.e. RAW.

That leaves CISF and CRPF. Both forces are now being expanded to take on additional duties. CRPF is the one that is expected to become the lead agency for CI duties in India. Clearly that is yet to happen. However, CRPF has replaced BSF in many areas of J&K. Not whole of CRPF is armed, we have units like Rapid Action Force which have their own roles.

CPO vs CPMF: AFAIK this was only a jargon used by GoM report to classify BSF, ITBP, SSB vs CRPF, CISF and NSG

But my question is: Should the Army (thru RR, AR and TA proxies) remain in CI? No in theory but Yes practice, because given the scale of threat we face I dont expect the Army to just watch from the sidelines.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 23 Oct 2009 02:03

ASPuar wrote:
Gaur wrote:^^ A small nitpick.
BSF, SSB, ITBT, SSF are not CPOs.
Nor are AR and RR. They are CPF. But I guess you already knew that.
Anyways, I get your point and totally agree with you. Its high time that Police and Paramilitary takes over from army as far as COIN and NSG are concerned. But unfortunately, I don't see that happening anytime soon.
I dont know about that. MHA refers to them all as Central Police Organisations.

http://mha.nic.in/uniquepage.asp?Id_Pk=564

Thats odd.

Then which forces consist of CPFs?

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 23 Oct 2009 10:47

Gaur wrote: Thats odd.
Then which forces consist of CPFs?

Technically, none? Except the Indian Coast Guard, which is explicitly administered by the ministry of defence (MoD), and funded out of Defence Estimates.

The MHA cannot technically maintain any "military" forces. This goes back to 1950, AFAIK.

sunny y · Post by **sunny y** » 23 Oct 2009 11:41

Why India is not a great nation. Must Read....

http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?a=jk ... eat_nation

Chindit · Post by **Chindit** » 23 Oct 2009 17:19

STAFF WRITER 14:25 HRS IST
New Delhi, Oct 23 (PTI) Government today indicated that it is planning to strengthen troop posts along the borders with China and acquire modern weaponry and specialised vehicles for soldiers guarding the icy frontier.

"We are considering an ITBP restructuring plan. The plan includes measures to strengthen border posts," Home Minister P Chidambaram said at the 48th raising day of the ITBP, which guards the 3,500 km long Sino-Indian border.

Surveillance equipments, modern weaponry and specialised vehicles will also be procured to equip the force, he said.

Chidambaram said the "country is going through a difficult phase" in terms of cross border terror, situation in Jammu and Kashmir, insurgency in North-East and left wing extremism in various states.

"We are confident that we have the strength and capacity to overcome these challenges," he said.

Sandipan · Post by **Sandipan** » 23 Oct 2009 18:35

BSF top brass seem to believe in fancy dress competition. Some troopers wear all khaki, some wear army like camo, some wear digital camo. All very confusing.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 27 Oct 2009 15:55

ITBP to get 15 new battalions

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/itbp- ... ns/532633/

The Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP), the force guarding the 3,488-km-long India-China border, is all set to get an addition of 18,000 men to its 55,000-odd workforce and a major strengthening of its border posts.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 28 Oct 2009 09:38

http://sify.com/news/printer_friendly.p ... tid=2&cid=

'Expansion of CPF indicates inadequacies in state police'

2009-10-28 05:30:00

New Delhi: Union Home Minister P. Chidambaram said here on Tuesday that massive expansion of the central police forces (CPF) is indicative of inadequacies of state police.

Addressing the Consultative Committee for the Ministry of Home Affairs on the topic ‘National Police Mission,’ Chidambaram said : "The police-population ratio in the country is much lower than the desired level of 220 and there is also wide variation among the States. He also drew the attention to other problems like outdated equipment and lack of training."

He expressed concern over the least efforts made to fill a large number of vacancies which exist in state police at lower as well as higher levels.

"Inadequacies of police in the States and their over-dependence on the central police forces is not a good sign for the federal structure. The States are now realizing the gravity of the situation and concentrating on recruitment, training and modernization of their police forces," Chidambaram said.

"Policing in the country has long been neglected and urgent reforms are needed in the state police system," he added.

Chidambaram also drew the attention to problems like outdated equipment and lack of training.

The Home Minister informed the meeting that four projects submitted by the Micro Missions, set up under the National Police Mission have been approved for implementation throughout the country.

true.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 06 Nov 2009 10:30

We now have CRPF (including Cobra), BSF, IRB, Orissa/WB(?) police SOG/Armed police deployed

http://www.indianexpress.com/story-print/537976/

More troops close in on Lalgarh as Kishenji talks of ceasefire
Express News Service Posted online: Friday , Nov 06, 2009 at 0349 hrs

Kolkata : Even as top Maoist leader Kishenji said talks were possible with the government if it declared a ceasefire and withdrew central forces from the Naxal-hit areas in various states, an additional six companies of paramilitary forces were deployed today in Lalgarh-Jhargram areas in West Midnapore for a renewed offensive as the Centre gears up for Operation Green Hunt.

“The additional companies have been deployed in different areas as part of the joint Centre-state forces currently engaged in operations against the Maoists,” said West Midnapore SP Manoj Verma.

The additional forces reached West Midnapore this morning and were immediately deployed in various affected areas in the Jhargram-Lalgarh belt. “We have placed them in strategic positions,” said a senior police officer who refused to elaborate.

At present, there are 17 companies of paramilitary forces, mostly BSF and CRPF, deployed in Lalgarh. This is in addition to 17 companies of state armed forces, a contingent of Special Operations Group of CID anti-Naxal CoBRA commandos from Orissa.

Meanwhile, security in West Midnapore has been beefed up ahead of the visit of Chief Minister Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee there on November 7, when he is likely to announce a Rs 1,600-crore development package for tribals.

“We have already started sanitising national highway No 6 and 7. A year ago, when chief minister visited Salboni, there was a landmine blast on his convoy’s route. Therefore, this time we are not taking any chances,” said a senior police officer from West Midnapore district.

This morning, police pressed into service tractors to till the soil on both sides of the national highways on which the chief minister’s convoy is supposed to pass. This is meant to track any IEDs planted on the road.

Fearing attacks by Maoists during his visit to areas in the Lalgarh-Jhargram belt, the police have posted special bodyguards with government officials, including block development officers.

“We have placed security guards in the residences of government officers and guards in all government offices in the area. This is to minimise the chances of them being abducted by Maoist squads,” said a senior police officer.

.....

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 201526.cms

....

LALGARH: Six more companies of CRPF reached Lalgarh on Thursday to strengthen the joint operation against the

Maoist menace. They will join the 22 companies of central forces comprising CRPF, BSF and IRB who had been
deployed at Jangalmahal, along with eight companies of police from Kolkata and the rest of the state, since June 18......

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 15 Nov 2009 12:37

CISF has also raised a Maritime wing:

x-post

shyamd wrote:smells so much like an intelligence collection mission.
CISF seizes yacht with foreign nationals
The Marine Patrolling Party of the Central Industrial Security Force (CISF) on Friday night apprehended two foreign nationals who entered the port premises here on a yacht without permission and necessary travel documents. Frenchman Pignol Guillaume (45), and U.S. citizen Malcolm Russell Williamson (76), who were aboard the yacht ‘Andrana’ were held by the CISF patrolling team from across the Cochin Port Trust office on the Willingdon Island at 10.30 p.m. after the duo failed to produce any document that authorised their entry into Indian territorial waters.

“When questioned, they said the yacht developed some technical hitch which resulted in their drifting ashore near Kochi. They don’t have any permission to enter our territorial waters, leave alone the permit to enter the port,” CISF Commandant D. Shyamala told The Hindu. A joint team of CISF, Intelligence Bureau, Customs and Immigration officials are currently questioning the foreign nationals.

The foreign nationals said that they had set sail from Oman for Madagaskar when inclement weather and choppy seas sent the yacht adrift. Barring valid passports, they did not have a visa or any other travel documents, said sources.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 26 Nov 2009 04:02

CRPF gets theme song, sung by Shankar Mahadevan

The four-minute patriotic song "Jai Kara Jai Kara", praising over 2.5 lakh personnel of the force, reminds the troops of their sacrifices made through the year.

"The song will inspire the men to follow and lead with valour and courage in performing their duties in various parts of the country which involves tackling naxalism, counter-insurgency, militancy and other law and order duties," said an official.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 26 Nov 2009 18:15

http://www.dnaindia.com/dnaprint.asp?newsid=1316544

Army training J&K Police in counter-terrorism tasks

Ishfaq-ul-Hassan / DNA

With the Omar Abdullah government looking to reduce the footprint of the forces in the state, the army is training Jammu and Kashmir Police in counter-terrorism for independent operation. A batch of 199 constables, five sub-inspectors and an assistant sub-inspector recently completed a four-week specialised programme in counter-terrorism at the elite 15 Corps Battle School at Khrew in Pulwama.

“The aim of the training was to develop skills of police personnel for participation in counter-terrorism operations. The training focused on physical conditioning, field and battle craft and reflex shooting,” a defence spokesman said.

Chief minister Omar Abdullah said it was time to give a greater role to central paramilitary forces and police. “We [army chief and he] are in agreement that we have to reduce the footprint of the army in a phased manner. Some steps have been already taken in this direction. J&K Police are being trained by the 15 Crops in Srinagar to take more responsibility,” the chief minister said.

Currently, the army, CRPF and police share the security responsibility in Jammu and Kashmir. Of the 77 CRPF battalions in the state, 62 are deployed in Kashmir alone.

CRPF performs the dual role of maintaining law and order and countering insurgency along with the state police. Mostly, they conduct joint operations. CRPF companies are attached to the special operation group of police for counter insurgency. The army also performs a dual role of guarding the line of control and countering militancy in the hinterland. “The army’s job is to protect the borders. We want to create a situation where no army man is required to provide internal security,” Omar said.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 28 Nov 2009 17:39

Chidambaram praises contribution of CRPF on its 70th anniversary

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 28 Nov 2009 22:56

BSF to acquire 4 all terrain vehicles to patrol Sir Creek

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 01 Dec 2009 19:10

BSF gets patent for IED jammer technology

New Delhi, Dec 1 (PTI) The Border Security Force has bagged a patent for its 'Remote Controlled Improvised Explosive Device Jammer', the first paramilitary force in the country to be granted the unique distinction.

The country's Controller General of Patent had recently accorded the patent to the jammer device, which was built by the Research and Development Cell of the Communication and IT Directorate of the BSF.

The device can be fixed on a vehicle and protects the convoys it travels with or the area it is placed in by jamming remote controlled trigger devices, BSF officials said.

In the last five years, besides the RCIED (Remote Controlled Improvised Explosive Device) Jammer, the force's R and D cell has designed and fabricated various devices like RCIED Pre-Initiator, Universal Programmer, Laser Aiming Trainer, Mobile de-activator GSM band, Tresspasser alert among many others.

Good R & D

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 01 Dec 2009 20:44

Jamal K. Malik wrote:Navy to raise separate force to monitor coastal areas
Kolkata, Dec 1 (PTI) In the wake of the 26/11 Mumbai attack, a separate force would be raised to monitor coastal areas, a top Naval officer said here today.

"There will be a separate force, Sagar Prahari Bal, for the purpose of increasing vigil in coastal areas of the country, starting from Gujarat to West Bengal," Naval officer-in-charge (West Bengal) Commodore Chandra Sekhar Azad told a press conference.

The force will constitute 1,000 navy personnel, including 61 officers and 939 sailors and will have 95 Fast Interceptive Craft (FIC), Azad said, adding that the induction for the force will start from January next year.

When asked about the allocation for West Bengal, Azad said, the state would get 150 navy personnel, including four officers, and four FICs.

Azad said, "The new force will check every vessel above 300 tons...

Another terrorist attack, another new force is created. I wonder how many different armies will India create?

And why Navy of all should raise "Sagar Prahari" sounds to me a job that Tat Rakshak should be doing :rolleyes:

sum · Post by **sum** » 01 Dec 2009 21:06

The country's Controller General of Patent had recently accorded the patent to the jammer device, which was built by the Research and Development Cell of the Communication and IT Directorate of the BSF.

Does this IT directorate hire full time scientists or are people deputed from central orgs?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 01 Dec 2009 22:26

Strongly recommend reading this well researched and lucid paper:

http://www.idsa.in/system/files/OP_Coas ... gement.pdf

Coastal Security Arrangement:
A Case Study of
Gujarat and Maharashtra Coasts

KiranM · Post by **KiranM** » 02 Dec 2009 00:00

Aditya G wrote:
Another terrorist attack, another new force is created. I wonder how many different armies will India create?

And why Navy of all should raise "Sagar Prahari" sounds to me a job that Tat Rakshak should be doing :rolleyes:

Just a guess, but they can also play an offensive role like infiltrating MARCOs into Karachi? Something similar to USN Special Boat Units. This must be a seeding of sorts in that direction.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 02 Dec 2009 02:44

thought: almost every indian fisherman or boatman these days has a cell phone or soon will have given the mobile penetration rate. what if we require all boats putting out to sea to file (via sms) a 'flightplan' so that coast guard knows about them. any boat over a certain size can fit a transponder (maybe a converted cell phone) that relays its identity and location (when within coastal cellular coverage). the coast guard can build up a real time image of marine traffic over a certain size (or maybe all sizes) and then cross check it against an aerostat surveillance image of the coast. anything suspicious... strange route, or speed or whatever... can be aerially surveyed by UAV's and then intercepted if required

wouldn't cost that much to do.

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 02 Dec 2009 22:18

http://epaper.hindustantimes.com/Articl ... 002&mode=1

Sad state of affairs. It shouldn't be a boast that "CRPF is more versatile than any force in the world as it performs SO many duties". We should be ashamed that, even when there are forces are created for each specific security job, we are deploying CRPF to do that job.

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 06 Dec 2009 14:37

CISF begins security audit of nuclear installations

Karna_A · Post by **Karna_A** » 09 Dec 2009 03:18

What is needed here is compulsory NCC training to everyone in India and simultaneously upgrading the NCC training to Army level.
This should start with graduate level and extend to voting card/Ration card requirement.
People can still avoid the Army training as long as they don't need education, jobs and don't vote.
Discipline will breed respect for authority which is badly needed.

sunny y wrote:Why India is not a great nation. Must Read....

http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?a=jk ... eat_nation

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 09 Dec 2009 21:10

Karna_A wrote:What is needed here is compulsory NCC training to everyone in India and simultaneously upgrading the NCC training to Army level.

Your intention is good my friend, but you are trying to answer the wrong question. We Indians keep seeking a systemic response to all problems - thus ending up with more systems that dont work. Which in turn create more problems. Are you aware of the state of NCC training? Some of these NCC camps are barely livable and the instructors don't care about the cadets. Our problems were not to be if those instructors were doing their job as they are supposed to, the police theirs, the babulog and so on.

JMHO.

Anyways some bites on the National Disaster Response Force:

The Concept. The Disaster Management Act has mandated the constitution of a Specialist Response Force to a threatening disaster situation or a disaster. This Force will function under the National Disaster Management Authority which has been vested with its control, direction and general superintendence. This will be a multi-disciplinary, multi-skilled, high-tech force for all types of disasters capable of insertion by air, sea and land. All the eight battalions are to be equipped and trained for all natural disasters including four battalions in combating nuclear, biological and chemical disasters.

Present Organization. Presently this Force is constituted of eight battalions, two each from the BSF, CRPF, CISF and ITBP. Each battalion will provide 18 self-contained specialist search and rescue teams of 45 personnel each including engineers, technicians, electricians, dog squads and medical/paramedics. The total strength of each battalion will be approximately 1,158.

Deployment. These NDRF battalions are located at nine different locations in the country based on the vulnerability profile to cut down the response time for their deployment. During the preparedness period/in a threatening disaster situation, proactive deployment of these forces will be carried out by the NDMA in consultation with state authorities.

Functional Parameters - Regular and intensive training, familiarization with the area of responsibility, carrying out mock drills and joint exercises with the various stakeholders will form the key functional parameter of this Force. Four training centres will be set up in Kolkata, Latur, Bhanu and NISA (Hyderabad) by respective paramilitary forces to train personnel from NDRF battalions of respective forces. The NDRF units will impart basic training to the State Disaster Response Forces (SDRF) in their respective locations. Further, one national-level Disaster Management Academy will be set up at Nagpur to provide training for trainers and to meet other national and international commitments.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 09 Dec 2009 21:30

Aditya G wrote:Are you aware of the state of NCC training? Some of these NCC camps are barely livable and the instructors don't care about the cadets.

NCC training and syllabus requires a total revamp. As I mentioned earlier in the current syllabus a lot depends upon the cadet's like for the defence, the college ANO's attitude and the NCC battalion commander's attitude and interest in running the NCC unit. Instead of that we need to have a more systematic/institutionalised approach. Also NCC being a voluntary unit, any one can get training and then say move into Naxalism/Jehadism etc.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 10 Dec 2009 10:11

India Beefs Up Security Budget

The November 2008 terrorist attacks in Mumbai exposed shortfalls in India's homeland security spending (DTI February, p. 44). While the $26.5-billion defense budget for fiscal 2008-09 (ended Mar. 31) represented a 10% hike over the previous year, it was only 1.9% of GDP--not enough, experts assert, for a country whose economic and regional responsibilities have grown in recent years, and which faces threatening neighbors and insurgents. The government, as a result, increased security spending 25% in the current fiscal year.

This money is funding a massive shopping spree by homeland security agencies. These include the paramilitary forces, state and central police, and intelligence agencies, all of which are part of the Home Affairs Ministry.

Paramilitary forces received $4.3 billion for fiscal 2009-10, an increase of $1 billion from the previous year. Among the beneficiaries is the Central Reserve Paramilitary Force, which received $1.4 billion, a 26% increase. The Border Security Force--which guards the Line of Control in Jammu and Kashmir and the 6,622-km. (4,115-mi.) border with Pakistan, Bangladesh and Myanmar--received a 20% increase in funds to $1.3 billion. Allocations to the Central Industrial Reserve Force grew by almost 21.5% to $500 million. And the New Delhi police received $1.47 billion for security at the upcoming Commonwealth Games.
Internal threats from Maoist insurgents in the northeast resulted in the Assam Rifles, the local paramilitary, receiving $470 million, an increase of 34%. Tenders are planned for 10,000 pieces of body armor, 10,000 new-generation helmets and at least 80 mine-resistant vehicles for the unit--this last a fourfold increase from the current fleet.
Six major cities also benefit from the higher security budget--more than 500 surveillance cameras have been installed in Bengaluru (formerly Bangalore) alone.

Nevertheless, there is concern that the government has no integrated plan for security.

"The security market in India is skewed, as integrated requirements are not looked at," says Partha Sarathi Guha Patra, vice president of strategic initiatives and offset programs at Indian conglomerate Wipro Ltd. "The market scenario today is to just procure a product."

"Our policies and strategies need to prepare for the future," says Shekhar Dutt, deputy national security adviser. "From box-based planning, we need to orient to a transformational mode where activity lines and time lines are well defined."

Countering extremists requires a well-thought-out strategy, says Adm. Sureesh Mehta, former chief of naval staff. "The increasing demand on the military to assume law-and-order responsibilities is clearly an undesirable trend--this must always be a last resort. The military must never be used against our population."

In a possible reference to reports that Pakistan has helped arm terrorists and insurgents in India, he notes, "We live in an era characterized by the rise of non-state forces. . .[and the] worrying phenomenon of the occasional coalescing of the state with some non-state entities, which has created an evil hybrid."

The difficulty of integrating a comprehensive security makeover is evident in one plan, mired in turf wars, to give the navy overall responsibility for maritime security. The plan calls for integrating 16 now-separate coastal and offshore agencies, including the coast guard, marine police, customs, shipping and fisheries, with joint operation centers in Mumbai, Vizag, Kochi and Port Blair. A proposal to appoint a maritime security adviser is also being considered, says Defense Minister A.K. Antony.

Some gains are being made. A coastal surveillance radar station was commissioned in Karwar, Karnataka, last month by Vice Adm. Anil Chopra, director general of the coast guard. He says 14 more will be set up to fill the security gap along India's western coast. Speedboats are also being procured for them.
Chopra recently launched an offshore patrol vessel designed and built by Goa Shipyard. The vessel has an automated bridge, room for a light helicopter and range of 4,500 nm.

The coast guard plans to buy 12 twin-engine helicopters and 12 Dornier surveillance aircraft to police India's 7,500-km. coastline. The service has also ordered 204 interceptor boats from foreign suppliers, some of which have been delivered.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 10 Dec 2009 15:31

4.3 Billion dollars on CPMF seems like a complete waste to me. Thats higher than the Navy and Air Force budgets combined, and I dont know what tangible benefits we have received (other than from BSF, CISF, AR, and ITBP). Other CPMF's seem like just a jobs program. In the event of a war/terrorist attack/emergency it is still only the army which is called out, and the CPMF's recuse themselves, saying "this is the armys job".

Either harden the CPO's by placing army officers in their top posts, instead of IPS generalists (this makes sense, because border guard is hardly a civil police task). Or else, amalgamate these entities with the army, allowing them to become hardened, well trained, and up to the task.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 10 Dec 2009 15:36

^^

With due respect, who are the ones actually in the line of fire right now and dying by enemy bullets each day? Navy? Air Force? Spare a thought for the poor CRPF guys and COBRAs who're fighting a cunning enemy in harsh jungles.