BSF, CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Craig Alpert
BRFite
Posts: 1442
Joined: 09 Oct 2009 17:36
Location: Behind Enemy Lines

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Craig Alpert » 14 May 2010 23:17

Grenade attack in Srinagar, 6 injured
At least six persons, including four securitymen, were injured when militants exploded a hand grenade after a clash between law enforcing agencies and a violent mob in downtown city on Friday.

The grenade was hurled by militants at a joint gathering of CRPF and police at Saraf Kadal chowk in the vicinity of the historic Jamia Masjid around 4.20 PM, police sources said.

They said the security men had assembled near a CRPF picket after charging on a stone-pelting mob which was chanting pro-freedom and anti-establishment slogans when the attack took place.

Prior to the grenade explosion, a pistol shot was also heard in the area, the sources said, adding that the grenade attack left six persons including three CRPF personnel and a policeman injured, the sources said.

They said the whole area was immediately cordoned off by the security forces and a hunt has been launched to nab the militants involved in the attack.

No militant outfit has so far claimed responsibility for the attack, which sparked off panic in the area which along with the adjacent Rajouri Kadal, Bohrikadal and Nowhatta localities witnessed violent clashes between the youth and security forces shortly after Friday prayers.

Four injured in the grenade blast have been identified as head constable Ashok Kumar and constable Santosh of CRPF, Constable Bilal Ahmad of local police and Shopkeeper Manzoor Ahmad Tramboo, the sources said adding condition of constable Bilal was stated to be "critical".

The sources said police fired dozens of teargas shells and used batons to disperse the stone-pelting mobs who took to streets shortly after chairman of moderate faction of Hurriyat Conference Mirwaiz Umer Farooq addressed a gathering at Rajouri Kadal after leading a procession from Jamia Masjid.

Criticising Chief Minister Omar Abdullah accusing separatists for encouraging violence, Mirwaiz hit back saying the economic progress and prosperity of the state espoused by him was not possible without resolution of Kashmir issue.

"The economic prosperity and progress talked about by the Chief Minister is not possible without resolution of Kashmir issue," he told the gathering.

...........

shravan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2118
Joined: 03 Apr 2009 00:08

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby shravan » 17 May 2010 17:52

Naxals blow up bus near Dantewada, 50 feared killed

Naxalites have blown up a civilian bus at Chingawaram near Dantewada in Chhattisgarh. Fifty people are feared killed. There were CRPF jawans travelling on the bus, along with civilians.

Early reports said at least 30 people had been killed in the landmine blast. But Special DG V Raman said: "I fear at least 50 dead, we are checking.

Dmurphy
BRFite
Posts: 1545
Joined: 03 Jun 2008 11:20
Location: India

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Dmurphy » 17 May 2010 18:47

This might just push Chidu over the hilt and make him quit

Craig Alpert
BRFite
Posts: 1442
Joined: 09 Oct 2009 17:36
Location: Behind Enemy Lines

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Craig Alpert » 18 May 2010 04:26

It's all about INTELLIGENCE and COUNTER INTELLIGENCE.. and don't me this BS about the Maoists having planted the IED when the road was being built, either by bribing/threatening the contractor, because IT TAKES REAL INTELLIGENCE effort to target a BUS FULL OF people combating this very menace. KNOWING the route/identity and time of the place is an INTELLIGENCE operation used very well by the maoists...Time to use some sort of spectrometry satellite to identify where the IED's are, if not use a freaking Mine hunter to identify the IED's, blow them up and keep changing routes at the very last minute to keep them guessing if their sources are correct or not.. Where is that Raguvanshi guy, who had all this insights on intelligence?? Any thoughts on this guy?

Craig Alpert
BRFite
Posts: 1442
Joined: 09 Oct 2009 17:36
Location: Behind Enemy Lines

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Craig Alpert » 19 May 2010 03:49

^^ here's more proof of how the bomb was planted UNDERNEATH the road, WITHOUT damaging the road!

LTTE tactics help Maoists carry out deadly attacks
he dreaded Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam may have been wiped off from Sri Lanka [ Images ], but its lessons to Naxals are showing in the form of attacks carried out by improvised explosive devices with precision in the hinterlands of Chhattisgarh.

The Left-wing extremists used the technique to blow-up a civilian bus on Monday in which at least 50 people were feared killed, officials said. The Maoists staged the attack by digging a tunnel on either side of the road, to reach the concrete top from below to plant the IED, they said.

The IED is understood to have been planted days before Monday's attack and was triggered by the Naxals who were armed with real-time intelligence that Special Police Officers were traveling in the civilian bus.

"In this way, they do not disturb the crust, so as to avoid any suspicion. The signs of dredging on the sides of the road can be easily wiped off. In this way, they can quickly fit an IED and carry out the blast in the most effective way," officials said.

In a similar use of IEDs last week, the Maoists had blown up an armoured vehicle, in which eight Central Reserve Police Force personnel were killed. Top police officials said the same technique was used by the LTTE [ Images ] against the Sri Lankan forces.


more grueling details of how Maoists gathered Intelligence!!! IN PLAIN SIGHTS this freaking sucks!!!
http://www.ndtv.com/news/india/naxals-blow-up-bus-near-dantewada-33-killed-26123.php?u=0702
...............
Sources said the SPOs on the bus were part of an operation launched three days ago. Two Maoists had been killed in the operation, but the local commander, Ganesh, had escaped.

After finishing the operation, most of those involved were walking back, but 15 of them boarded the bus near Gadiras. Maoists reportedly observed them at the bus stand and passed on the information. Sources said this pointed to the swift and effective intelligence and communication network of the Naxals.

SPOs are mostly local people recruited to fight the Maoists and have emerged as the biggest threat to them.

This is the first such attack on a civilian passenger bus.................


Varoon Shekhar
BRFite
Posts: 1690
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 23:26

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 21 May 2010 23:40

Very ignorant or arrogant statement( or both) by the Canadian high commission. Trying to act big with their judgements. Can they point to another country that has similar problems of infiltration, of India's magnitude, and is handling the situation in a far more just and humane manner? Just acting pompous and self-important, nothing more.

pgbhat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4065
Joined: 16 Dec 2008 21:47
Location: Hayden's Ferry

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby pgbhat » 22 May 2010 00:24

Varoon Shekhar wrote:Very ignorant or arrogant statement( or both) by the Canadian high commission. Trying to act big with their judgements. Can they point to another country that has similar problems of infiltration, of India's magnitude, and is handling the situation in a far more just and humane manner? Just acting pompous and self-important, nothing more.

Why would they bother? they are geographically isolated and don't face any such issues. That gives them enough leeway to pull such stunts and "advise" India on the "right" course of action.
Since they are far more "rich", "multicultural" and "tolerant", than the third world poverty stricken tribal Indians, they are also "wise" and "just" as well and hence they can assume moral high ground and judge Indians. ;)

AdityaM
BRFite
Posts: 1839
Joined: 30 Sep 2002 11:31
Location: New Delhi

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby AdityaM » 22 May 2010 01:28

crap coming from a country that harbors terrorists. wonder if it found the khalistan terrorists as peaceniks

Brando
BRFite
Posts: 676
Joined: 26 Feb 2008 06:18

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Brando » 22 May 2010 02:45

In the end isn't it Canada's prerogative to allow or deny whom ever they wish into their country ??
The Smart thing would be for India to do nothing and merely respond in kind by denying Canadian businesses that are tied to their military or former Canadian military members from entering India for participating in an illegal war in Iraq or the numerous human rights abuses in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Gerard
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7533
Joined: 15 Nov 1999 12:31

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Gerard » 22 May 2010 03:47

Terming BSF “notoriously violent’’, Canada rejects ex-constable’s visa
The Canadian letter told Mr. Pandher that he was being denied a visa "because there is reason to believe you are a member of the inadmissible class of persons" involved in war crimes and crimes against humanity.

karan_mc
BRFite
Posts: 690
Joined: 02 Dec 2006 20:53

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby karan_mc » 22 May 2010 07:51

what are Canadians doing in Afghanistan ? mining ? they have no F**k**g business in Afghanistan

Raja Bose
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19481
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 01:38

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Raja Bose » 22 May 2010 11:09

If the GoI really has any cojones it will ask Canada to withdraw this diplomat and refuse to further honour his credentials. But then this is GoI....

Airavat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2326
Joined: 29 Jul 2003 11:31
Location: dishum-bishum
Contact:

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Airavat » 22 May 2010 12:11

^^^
GOI=government of inaction.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9782
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby sum » 22 May 2010 13:33

And the back pedalling starts. Only hope i have is that the babus have long memories and Canada will be shown its place for this audacity of theirs in the near future:
We have great respect for India's armed forces: Canada

Canada's Foreign Ministry spokesperson Catherine Loubier said in an e-mail statement that "vibrant people-to-people" connections are one of the "greatest strengths" of India-Canada relations which continue to be strengthened.

"I would like to stress that Canada has the highest regard for India's democratic institutions and processes. Canada has great respect for India's armed forces and related institutions," she said in the statement.

The statement came in the wake of revelation of remarks of a First Secretary of the Canadian High Commission here that BSF was a "notoriously violent" force which indulged in "systematic attack" and "systematic torture" of suspected criminals.

The diplomat had made the comments while rejecting the visa application of a retired BSF constable.

The External Affairs Ministry has already taken up the issue with the Canadian government.

"We are reviewing the situation," the Canadian spokesperson said but did not elaborate citing "privacy reasons".

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9782
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby sum » 22 May 2010 13:36

Dantewada CRPF DIG shunted out
NEW DELHI: More than a month after the massacre of 75 jawans of the Central Reserve Police Force by Maoists in Chhattisgarh, the Centre on Friday shunted out CRPF DIG in Dantewada Nalin Prabhat, Commandant of the 62nd battalion V.K. Bisht and inspector Sanjeev Bagree.

Acting on the report of the E.N. Rammohan Committee, set up in the wake of the April 6 killings, the government ordered the shake-up in the CRPF set-up in Dantewada district. While R.S. Sahota will be the new DIG in Dantewada, Ashok Swami will be the Commandant of the 62nd battalion.


Is it right to judge a highly decorated officer like Prabhat who has proved himself in J&K within a month of his taking over the AoR where the incidents happened?

IIRC, he has been posted back to Chandigarh ( from where he came) and the commandant has been posted out to J&K..

atreya
BRFite
Posts: 535
Joined: 11 Dec 2008 16:33

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby atreya » 22 May 2010 20:15



I don't know who the hell gave them the right to talk about a force they barely know about and have never interacted with. And the usual back-tracking infuriates me to no end. First, talk rubbish, then go on harping about "lots of respect", etc. Wonder what THEY will feel if someone says the same for their RCMP

ASPuar
BRFite
Posts: 1539
Joined: 07 Feb 2001 12:31
Location: Republic of India

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby ASPuar » 22 May 2010 21:29

sum wrote:Dantewada CRPF DIG shunted out
NEW DELHI: More than a month after the massacre of 75 jawans of the Central Reserve Police Force by Maoists in Chhattisgarh, the Centre on Friday shunted out CRPF DIG in Dantewada Nalin Prabhat, Commandant of the 62nd battalion V.K. Bisht and inspector Sanjeev Bagree.

Acting on the report of the E.N. Rammohan Committee, set up in the wake of the April 6 killings, the government ordered the shake-up in the CRPF set-up in Dantewada district. While R.S. Sahota will be the new DIG in Dantewada, Ashok Swami will be the Commandant of the 62nd battalion.


Is it right to judge a highly decorated officer like Prabhat who has proved himself in J&K within a month of his taking over the AoR where the incidents happened?

IIRC, he has been posted back to Chandigarh ( from where he came) and the commandant has been posted out to J&K..


Noone is 'Judging' the DIG without evidence, or inquiry.

EN Rammohan is a highly decorated, and vastly experienced senior retired officer. He has submitted a report, after taking all the facts of the case into consideration. And that report should, going by his track record, as an outstanding senior police officer, a former DG BSF, and earlier in his career, an Army officer, be reliable.

If DIG Nalin Prabhat's lapse of judgment took place within a month of taking over the AoR, that is, as it is. It is a lapse of judgment nevertheless.

Anyway, the govt has to been seen to be taking some action, and after a disaster of this scale, it could not leave him in place.

On an unrelated note, regarding the BSF-Canada controversy, there are lots of anti India elements (Khalestan, Islamists etc) sheltering in Canada. Could be the kid or relation of one of those who wrote that ridiculous reason for denying a visa.

tejas
BRFite
Posts: 773
Joined: 31 Mar 2008 04:47

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby tejas » 23 May 2010 04:16

This coming from a country whose peace keeping forces tortured and murdered people in Somalia for the pure enjoyment of it. Gone are the days when ANY country much less a US poodle can pontificate and preach to India.

Gaurav_S
BRFite
Posts: 787
Joined: 16 Mar 2006 15:40
Location: Out on other planet
Contact:

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Gaurav_S » 23 May 2010 04:41

Now, Canada says it respects India's armed forces

Loubier added, "We are reviewing the situation'' but did not elaborate citing "privacy reasons''. She said India was a country with growing influence on the global stage and "our past has been marked by friendship and by strong ties that bind us closer than ever. We are also democratic nations that are ethnically, spiritually and linguistically diverse.''


We must learn from this gora propoganda. What they have got to review when their high commission itself admitted as BSF being notorious and violent force. When it comes down to saving their a$$e$ all they can say is due to "privacy reasons we cant clarify now"..."India is a vibrant country blah blah blah"..these are all infamous traps of western countries. India should learn how to deal with these western countries when they interfere with Kashmir, Siachen or any internal matters.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9782
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby sum » 23 May 2010 13:39

CRPF massacre probe indicts government

In a thorough-going review of the structural flaws that led to near-annihilation of an entire company of the Central Reserve Police Force's 62 Battalion, Mr. Ram Mohan has said the Union Home Ministry, the Chhattisgarh government and the organisation “are all responsible for not following directions laid down in the standard operating procedures.”

Wider crisis

On Friday, CRPF Director-General Vikram Srivastava announced that three officers linked to its counter-Maoist operations in Dantewada were being transferred out for “certain acts of omission and commission.” The Ram Mohan report, however, assigns little blame to these officers, pointing instead to a wider crisis of capacity and leadership.

“Suicidal” decision

Notably, the report charges the 62 Battalion with executing its instructions “in a casual manner.” Deputy-commandant Satyawan Yadav, it states, ignored orders to operate in a sweeping arc through the forests, and instead moved back and forth on a single track leading from the battalion post at Chintalnar to the village of Mukhram. His decision, the reports asserts, “was suicidal.” This conduct, it argues, was symptomatic of poor leadership resources in the CRPF.

Part of the reason for the 62 Battalion's behaviour may have been that the conditions at its Chintalnar camp sapped its personnel's energy. The report states the camp “had no defensible perimeter; moreover, “accommodation was dilapidated.”

Engineering unit

In his operational recommendations, Mr. Ram Mohan has called for the CRPF and the State police to work together as a “coordinated team.” The report also calls for the creation of a dedicated engineering unit to provide logistics facilities at CRPF bases as well as an armed force that will be able to spearhead the reconstruction of roads destroyed by Maoists. Finally, it suggests that the CRPF develop “an integrated intelligence wing.”

As the bolded part suggests, this move(transfer) is more a political one since the report has not laid even a small blame on the DIG.

Also, am assuming that the last line about a intel wing has already been initiated?

Craig Alpert
BRFite
Posts: 1442
Joined: 09 Oct 2009 17:36
Location: Behind Enemy Lines

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Craig Alpert » 03 Jun 2010 06:05

Chidambaram asks states to recruit double the number of cops
NEW DELHI: With the Centre exploring options of expanding the role of armed forces in the fight against Maoists amid failure of paramilitary and state police forces to contain violence, home minister P Chidambaram asked states to enhance their police training capacities and recruit "at least double the number of policemen and women that are being recruited, at present, every year".

Addressing senior cops from across the country on the occasion of the 40th All India Police Science Congress in Raipur, Chidambaram pointed out how the existing police vacancy of over 3.35 lakh personnel and dismal police-population ratio (160 per one lakh of population) made the task of securing 1.1 billion people quite difficult.

These issues will be the highlights of the home minister's remarks on Thursday when MPs of 34 worst Naxal-affected districts assemble here for a meeting. It will be the second such meeting when the home ministry will apprise the people's representatives of the existing problem in Red Zones and hear their suggestions to overcome the current crisis. Currently, as against the sanctioned strength of 21 lakh police personnel, about 335,000 lakh posts are vacant.

tsarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2453
Joined: 08 May 2006 13:44
Location: mumbai

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby tsarkar » 03 Jun 2010 12:03

Part of the reason for the 62 Battalion's behaviour may have been that the conditions at its Chintalnar camp sapped its personnel's energy. The report states the camp “had no defensible perimeter; moreover, “accommodation was dilapidated.”

The report also calls for the creation of a dedicated engineering unit to provide logistics facilities at CRPF bases as well as an armed force that will be able to spearhead the reconstruction of roads destroyed by Maoists.


An army formation has support from EME, Signals, Sappers, Ordnance, Medical, ASC. Does CPMF have similar support arms? I am surprised to find no sapper, ordnance, medical or supply support for CPMF ops. Establishing such units will work wonders.

rohitvats
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7571
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Location: Jatland

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby rohitvats » 03 Jun 2010 14:05

^^^Pertinent point. IA operates as a cohesive self-sustaining unit...for example, the two Sub-Area HQ established in these areas will take care of static formations like logistic units - Ordanance and Supply Depots. RR Battalion will have clear lines as far as logistic support is concerned

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 6961
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Sachin » 03 Jun 2010 14:15

tsarkar wrote:An army formation has support from EME, Signals, Sappers, Ordnance, Medical, ASC. Does CPMF have similar support arms? I am surprised to find no sapper, ordnance, medical or supply support for CPMF ops. Establishing such units will work wonders.

I dont think the CPMFs would have so much specialised units. The CPMF would certainly have trained wireless operators etc., but they dont have specialised units like Corps of Signals. The same would be the case with Medicos etc. I dont think CPMFs have Sappers or dedicated Supply units. They also do not have Intelligence gathering mechanisms as well. BSF how ever raised a 'G' Branch when they were doing COIN Ops in J&K and this unit did wonders. They had developed a good number of "sources".

tsarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2453
Joined: 08 May 2006 13:44
Location: mumbai

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby tsarkar » 03 Jun 2010 16:51

Yes Sachin, I was just told that CPWD and CGHS is supposed to cater for CRPF requirements.

Apparently, the central government sees CRPF as infantry augmentation using infrastructure provided by the specific state. While it works during election duty or riot control, where jawans stay at local schools or government facilities, using local medical facilities and local logistics, this arrangement becomes unworkable if no civic infrastructure exists.

In Kashmir, government civil infrastructure exists to support the battalions. Apparently in Maoist States, due to maladministration, the support infrastructure is non-existent. Civil engineers and doctors avoided posting in the underdeveloped region much before naxal issue started. Today, malaria is claiming more casualties in CRPF than naxals. Apparently CRPF hires water tankers from local contractors for supplying camps with potable water.

CRPF with better training and developing support teams like field engineers/sappers, civil engineers on lines of MES, Ordnance, Medical and Supply could easily wipe out the insurgency. This is something CRPF leadership and Home Ministry needs to focus on.

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 6961
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Sachin » 03 Jun 2010 20:38

tsarkar wrote:Apparently, the central government sees CRPF as infantry augmentation using infrastructure provided by the specific state. While it works during election duty or riot control, where jawans stay at local schools or government facilities, using local medical facilities and local logistics, this arrangement becomes unworkable if no civic infrastructure exists.

:) To sum it up a CRPF unit many at a times is another Armed Police battalion, which many state police forces have. For example the Socialist Republic has the Kerala Armed Police (KAP) battalions which have their own barracks, may have a small hospital/health care unit, fully sufficient when it comes to vehicles. All barracks have messes, camp followers etc. All policemen are also trained in basic wireless sets operation and driving as well. They are most frequently used for riot control, primarily with the age-old lathi charge, using water cannons or firing at a seen target. Jungle war-fare etc. is totally new to them. In many cases the "Armed" phrase used in these units, essentially means that they have a large number of .303 rifles with them, with perhaps a few Sten Machine Carbines and LMGs thrown in (mainly used for training purpose only). The CRPF seems to be a similar unit, which is under the central government.

Pranay
BRFite
Posts: 1463
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Pranay » 04 Jun 2010 05:38

http://www.flonnet.com/stories/20100618271208900.htm

The Assam Rifles @ 175...

Six platoons of new recruits marched in perfect rhythm and synchronisation into the parade ground of the Assam Rifles Training Centre and School at Sukhovi in Nagaland on February 27. The occasion was the special attestation parade to mark the completion of 46 weeks of gruelling training in battlecraft, weapons handling, jungle-lane shooting and other specialisations in counter-insurgency operations for them.

The recruits, mostly tribal youth from the northeastern States, and their parents, who were also present, were greeted by a display of hot-air ballooning, breathtaking motorcycle rides, and so on. The event was part of the celebrations marking 175 years of the Assam Rifles, the country's oldest paramilitary force.

bhart
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 41
Joined: 22 May 2002 11:31
Location: New Delhi
Contact:

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby bhart » 04 Jun 2010 06:53

The CRPF seems to be a similar unit, which is under the central government.


Not exactly. Compared to the state armed police CRPF is better equipped, better organised and in most cases operates with better discipline. Being under the GoI does make a difference.

Quality of officers right from the AC level is an issue. Training of units is another issue. One thing that is not understood is that CRPF is almost constantly under enormous pressure from state govts to send help for one thing or the another, which has a negative impact on training - the kind that Chidambaram refers to when he says that a company out every executive battalion will be going through training at any given time.

I think the quality progresses in this order:
State Armed police-> SSB -> CRPF -> BSF -> ITBP

Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12530
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Sanku » 04 Jun 2010 14:24

I thought it was more like

State Armed Police --> CRPF --> BSF/SSB --> ITBP

SSB is between BSF and ITBP, its a border force in high ranges with specific training for the same?

bhart
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 41
Joined: 22 May 2002 11:31
Location: New Delhi
Contact:

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby bhart » 04 Jun 2010 16:48

Sanku wrote:I thought it was more like

State Armed Police --> CRPF --> BSF/SSB --> ITBP

SSB is between BSF and ITBP, its a border force in high ranges with specific training for the same?


That is how it should be. But from what I have heard, when it comes to discipline and organisational culture, it's problems are particularly severe. However, I must say, I have only heard this from officers who have served in the SSB at one point of time or the other.

Avik
BRFite
Posts: 189
Joined: 06 Oct 2009 00:16

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Avik » 04 Jun 2010 18:42

Bhart..you are quite right.
CRPF is rated higher than SSB. SSB has actually started to improve since it was made a specialised border force under the "One border, one force" policy of the NDA Govt. Prior to that, the SSB was more of an auxiliary/border observation force.

The older battallions of the CRPF (1 to 50) have better reputation since they are well established. The CRPF has been hurt by being reduced to a state police support force; and the constant movement has not helped either. There is a reason why the CRPF's theme song is the "Chalte Raho Pyaare Force"!! Constant movement from riot control to election duty to anti-naxal ops to CI in Kashmir etc does take its toll. Plus it has expanded too fast too soon in the last 10 years.

Amongst paramil forces, the pecking order would be Assam Rifles>> ITBP>>BSF>>CRPF>> SSB>>IRB.

Amongst the State Armed Police, some are quite effective like Punjab, TN, Maha, PAC, Nagaland while others like EFR, BMP (Bihar), Orissa have been allowed to whither away...sad really; if these forces were effective, then have the requisitions of central forces would never have arisen.

Craig Alpert
BRFite
Posts: 1442
Joined: 09 Oct 2009 17:36
Location: Behind Enemy Lines

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Craig Alpert » 22 Jun 2010 03:31


AdityaM
BRFite
Posts: 1839
Joined: 30 Sep 2002 11:31
Location: New Delhi

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby AdityaM » 22 Jun 2010 10:15

Pakistani officer kills CRPF constable in Liberia
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/crpf- ... er/636891/
The incident occurred at 4.45 am on June 8 when constables Jeet Singh and Kaptan Singh were on duty at their posts at the CRPF camp. According to reports, an “unidentified” man in fatigues entered the Indian camp and began firing indiscriminately.
An interim inquiry confirmed that the weapon abandoned at the spot belonged to a Pakistani officer, identified as one Lt Murad.
During investigations by UNMIL, 40 cartridges were found at the spot. These too had been issued to the Pakistani officer.

Craig Alpert
BRFite
Posts: 1442
Joined: 09 Oct 2009 17:36
Location: Behind Enemy Lines

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Craig Alpert » 29 Jun 2010 20:13

15 CRPF personnel killed in Maoists attack in Chhattisgarh
NEW DELHI: At least 15 CRFP personnel have been killed as Maoists ambushed a patrolling party of CRPF men in Narayanpur district in Bastar region on Tuesday evening.

CRPF IG R K Dua has confirmed the death of CRPF men. He said it was not known how many men were injured. "We are evacuating our men, some have been brought back, and others are in the process of being brought back to safety," he added.

A road opening party, "nearly the size of a company with 70 men" was ambushed by Maoists, 3 kilometres from Dhaudai in Narayanpur district around 1pm, said IG Dua.

The ambush took place inside the forests just 3-4 kilometres from a CRPF camp.

abhijitm
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3026
Joined: 08 Jun 2006 15:02
Contact:

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby abhijitm » 29 Jun 2010 21:52

what the hell. dont we learn anything from the past mistakes? why don't we do air-petrolling when CPRF platoon/company is on the move??? come on, how many lives we want to give so cheaply?

Gaur
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2013
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 23:19

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Gaur » 29 Jun 2010 21:56

^^
I understand your emotions but let us detest from making ridiculous suggestions. There may be some mistakes made but we cannot comment on that as for now because we know practically nothing about the situation. As for air patrolling for every patrol party, it is unfeasible. No one has air assets even close enough numbers for that. Even IA patrols at the height of insurgency in J&K and NE did not had that luxury.

abhijitm
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3026
Joined: 08 Jun 2006 15:02
Contact:

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby abhijitm » 29 Jun 2010 22:08

ok, then how are we going to prevent this or we are just happy to go on and suffer this again and again. This not only hurts emotionally but as a country this is a bad bad PR.

Gaur
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2013
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 23:19

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby Gaur » 29 Jun 2010 22:36

^^
abhijitm,
I am only an Armchair General, so please do not ask me about tactics. I will only disappoint. But it is worth noting that IA patrols never suffered these kind of casualties even during the height of insurgency. How many times have you heard an IA patrol being ambushed in such a way? So, one would assume that something is very wrong in the way the patrols are planned and carried out. Hopefully, this would be remedied after sufficient no of soldiers get trained by IA. Also, as many other posters have voiced, I am too of the opinion that while IA should not be ordered to carry out anti naxalite operations, it would be infinitely helpful if IA is allowed to raise an anti-naxalite para military force whose soldiers should be selected from CPOs.

BijuShet
BRFite
Posts: 1551
Joined: 09 Jan 2008 23:14
Location: under my tin foil hat

Re: BSF,CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion.

Postby BijuShet » 29 Jun 2010 22:44

Casualty figures revised upward to 26
From DNA India : 26 CRPF personnel killed in Naxal ambush in Chhattisgarh
1 hour ago
The Maoists opened fire from a hilltop when the paramilitary men were returning from road opening duty on foot....


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ashok Sarraff and 16 guests