Military Flight Safety

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
anishns
BRFite
Posts: 1343
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 09:43
Location: being victim onlee...

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby anishns » 28 Mar 2014 14:53

IBN live reporting total 11 passengers including IA & IAF
5 dead so, 6 have survived

rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 1162
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby rkhanna » 28 Mar 2014 15:07

Perhaps i am jumping the guns here, but looking at the rate of attrition Indian Military is going through, Sabotage cannot be ruled out. It's Understandable that neither GOI nor the Armed forces are likely to reveal this.


Maybe.. Or Maybe we should wake up and after years of Jingoism finally accept that the last 2 decades have left us no better than any other third world military.

If it walks like a duck........

member_20453
BRFite
Posts: 613
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby member_20453 » 28 Mar 2014 15:40

:((( very very sad day, RIP those men of valor who died, fortunately aircraft appears lightly loaded, appears Garuds among those killed in the crash..very sad. I don't think engine failure can be a cause, even with multiple engine failures, they can easily set it down on a rather rugged patch of ground without any serious damage. Some other technical issue perhaps, should be investigated asap and corrective measures taken, aircraft is still in warranty if technical problem due to manufacturing error, the aircraft will be replaced but extremely well trained lives cannot be. Sad day.

A saboteur at Gwalior would be highly unlikely, I don't see how someone can penetrate multiple layers of security in one of IAF's principle bases, I wouldn't rule it out though. I think time for a serious effort to get to the root of these things. As for the aircraft I think, it will be replaced with latest batch of 6 being made.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 24157
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby SSridhar » 28 Mar 2014 15:55

Guys, reserve your bad-mouthing for another time. Now is the time of mourning. Better to heed my advice.

One TV channel said that eyewitnesses said plane was on fire in mid-air before crashing. RIP, those who gave up their lives and Godspeed for those injured.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Austin » 28 Mar 2014 15:57

RIP to the Airmen and Condolence to their Family.... Sad News Indeed

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby shiv » 28 Mar 2014 16:03

Don't feel like watching news. Don't feel like coming here. RIP :(

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 24157
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby SSridhar » 28 Mar 2014 16:15

From ToI,
One senior air force pilot said the accident was "bizarre", and speculated that either the crew was incapacitated or a fire broke out aboard the plane.

chackojoseph
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4297
Joined: 01 Mar 2010 22:42
Location: From Frontier India
Contact:

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby chackojoseph » 28 Mar 2014 16:17

It appears, one villager (among many) who swam in Chambal river to reach out to survivors, was killed by a crocodile.

Indrajit
BRFite
Posts: 167
Joined: 19 Feb 2004 12:31
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Indrajit » 28 Mar 2014 16:37

SSridhar wrote:From ToI,
One senior air force pilot said the accident was "bizarre", and speculated that either the crew was incapacitated or a fire broke out aboard the plane.
[/quote

Seems very similar to Gen.Zia's C-130 Crash,investigators came to the conclusion that Wingco Maksud the pilot was in some way incapacitated or there was some kind of fire in the cockpit.

Sri Harsha
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 12
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 22:41
Contact:

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Sri Harsha » 28 Mar 2014 17:12

Indeed a sad event.
I was just wondering C 130 J being a new one, would it still be under warranty,
What does the manufacturer do if its due to technical problem the flight has crashed.
Not sure how it works for military equipment.

tushar_m

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby tushar_m » 28 Mar 2014 18:10

RIP airmen & condolences to the families of the deceased

member_20453
BRFite
Posts: 613
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby member_20453 » 28 Mar 2014 18:48

Sri Harsha wrote:Indeed a sad event.
I was just wondering C 130 J being a new one, would it still be under warranty,
What does the manufacturer do if its due to technical problem the flight has crashed.
Not sure how it works for military equipment.



Yes, if its a technical failure that caused this unfortunate event then by warranty they will replace the bird, it will be the 7th bird from the fresh batch of 6 new being built, If I am correct the 2 out of 3 MKIs which crashed are to be replaced under warranty as the cause was linked to manufacturing failures (can someone confirm this?)

SBajwa
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5388
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 21:35
Location: Attari

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby SBajwa » 28 Mar 2014 18:52

RIP!

This has to be sabotage or could it be a MANPADS? How high was it flying? How many more accidents do the defense forces have to face because of this internal AK.

Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8286
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Pratyush » 28 Mar 2014 18:54

Shocking that such a reliable plane has crashed. The plane can be replaced but the lives lost cannot be.

member_28440
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 52
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby member_28440 » 28 Mar 2014 18:55

RIP to the Bravemen

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Singha » 28 Mar 2014 19:03

it is claimed two wingco and two sqdn leaders were among the crew. will know for sure tomorrow.

the chambal gharial is adapted to eating fish with its long narrow snout and incapable to killing humans other than landing a lacerating bite...its probably the most docile of its clan. maybe the villager drowned for other reasons.

Dilbu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6489
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 22:53
Location: Deep in the badlands of BRFATA

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Dilbu » 28 Mar 2014 19:17

Hercules seems like a tough bird to go down easily like that. I thought it was something that will land in a dirt track if needed without killing anyone on board with its multiple engines etc. This is very odd. Well any airplane can crash and this is not to say it is any different for this plane but..

VishalJ
BRFite
Posts: 1022
Joined: 12 Feb 2009 06:40
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby VishalJ » 28 Mar 2014 19:26

The saddest photos i've ever posted & hope it stays that way.
RIP Air Warriors

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Source: https://twitter.com/ANI_news

SagarAg
BRFite
Posts: 1164
Joined: 12 May 2011 15:51

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby SagarAg » 28 Mar 2014 19:34

RIP brave air warriors.
Fire mid air could be result of electrical short circuit. With so many sorties by this airframe in recent past (Uttarakhand(high planes), MH370(sea), DBO(high mountains)), it might have skipped the much needed ground technical maintenance, this is the most likely scenario.

VishalJ
BRFite
Posts: 1022
Joined: 12 Feb 2009 06:40
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby VishalJ » 28 Mar 2014 19:54

As per my source(s) KC-3803 is the downed bird.

FYI:
KC-3802 (the 1st Hercules to be Officially Handed-Over to the IAF during a Ceremony at Marietta on December 16th 2010) was the static a/c at Aero India 2011

KC-3806 was the static bird at Aero India 2013

Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Sanku » 28 Mar 2014 20:15

This is shocking. I hope there is closure soon.

My deepest respects to the air warriors, my deepest condolences to their family and loved ones.

parshuram
BRFite
Posts: 327
Joined: 28 Feb 2006 09:52

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby parshuram » 28 Mar 2014 20:22

From photos and first hands reports (no secondary explosions ) it seems that plane was not carrying any munitions which could have been cause of onboard fire/explosions

Sid
BRFite
Posts: 1653
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 13:26

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Sid » 28 Mar 2014 20:48

From pictures it looks like it landed turtle and tail breaking off as it touched down. Rest of the body skidded some distance before burning to charcoal.

Some time back US also saw spate of C-130 accidents involved in firefighting. Reason was weak link at the center body where wings are attached. Due to fatigue that part gave away.

US was said to have fixed that after C-130 were grounded for some time. We are exhaustively using these planes since they were inducted, who knows which part gave away.

Image

chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby chaanakya » 28 Mar 2014 20:57

My Heart goes out to those brave men who have lost their lives in today's accident. May God grant them Moksha and strength to their families to bear the pain and sorrow.

Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8737
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Mort Walker » 28 Mar 2014 21:15

So sad for the crew and people who perished. May they achieve Moksha.

member_28455
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 1
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby member_28455 » 28 Mar 2014 21:48

My condolences to the families. I hope they attain moksha

Victor
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2628
Joined: 24 Apr 2001 11:31

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Victor » 28 Mar 2014 22:11

Terrible news at many levels. RIP.

sohamn
BRFite
Posts: 318
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 12:56
Location: the Queen of the Angels of Porziuncola
Contact:

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby sohamn » 28 Mar 2014 22:41

Some news reported the plane hitting a small hill while doing a low level tactical flying excercise.

srin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2029
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby srin » 28 Mar 2014 23:28

Given that these C-130Js were for special ops primarily, they probably were conducting low-level ingress exercise and may have hit or tried to avoid a power transmission line or some obstacle that wasn't on the maps.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23337
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby chetak » 28 Mar 2014 23:33

Sid wrote:From pictures it looks like it landed turtle and tail breaking off as it touched down. Rest of the body skidded some distance before burning to charcoal.

Some time back US also saw spate of C-130 accidents involved in firefighting. Reason was weak link at the center body where wings are attached. Due to fatigue that part gave away.

US was said to have fixed that after C-130 were grounded for some time. We are exhaustively using these planes since they were inducted, who knows which part gave away.




Some time back US also saw spate of C-130 accidents involved in firefighting. Reason was weak link at the center body where wings are attached. Due to fatigue that part gave away.


I gather that this part is being replaced after a fixed number of hours and also the same may be made in India by the OEM

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8221
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Indranil » 29 Mar 2014 01:21

srin wrote:Given that these C-130Js were for special ops primarily, they probably were conducting low-level ingress exercise and may have hit or tried to avoid a power transmission line or some obstacle that wasn't on the maps.


Low-level does not mean that transmission-line-low-level.

rohitvats
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7734
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Location: Jatland

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby rohitvats » 29 Mar 2014 02:03

^^^indranil - it could be high tension wires which are at considerable height from the ground. But you're right - that would too low for a transport aircraft. Though, fighters like Jaguar practice at that level.

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16817
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby NRao » 29 Mar 2014 02:07

It would be a travesty if there were *any* such wires in the area where they practice.

Sid
BRFite
Posts: 1653
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 13:26

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Sid » 29 Mar 2014 02:13

This area is flat and underdeveloped.

Wires or hills seems unlikely cause.

Image

rohitvats
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7734
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Location: Jatland

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby rohitvats » 29 Mar 2014 04:35

Actually, given the flat terrain all around (as visible in the picture) I would not be surprised if it was a low level ingress/egress exercise. And any development at that altitude would have proved fatal with too little time to react. And it seems the plane when nose down first at a relatively shallow angle.

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8221
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Indranil » 29 Mar 2014 05:12

Actually, without knowing the speed of impact, it is difficult to say whether it was a shallow rate of descent. Actually going by the pictures, I think it was quite the opposite.

Image

This is a very concentrated debri-field in terms of aviation accidents. Whats more I don't see any major structural parts left (except for the empennage). This is characteristic of a near perfect nose dive. The empennage is completely intact. In fact, its trailing edge shows no damage at all. I see light damage at the tip of the starboard horizontal stabilizer which probably was where the empennage made a singular contact with the ground making it turn turtle and coming to rest. This means that the tail did not have a large horizontal component.

Image

So I believe that the last few moments of the plane was a complete nose dive.

Anyways, all this is meaningless. I still have to stomach the loss of 5 young brothers.


bahdada
BRFite
Posts: 163
Joined: 27 Nov 2008 19:50

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby bahdada » 29 Mar 2014 10:13

Thoughts are with the pilots families.

RoyD
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 16
Joined: 07 Dec 2009 20:33
Location: Kolkata
Contact:

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby RoyD » 29 Mar 2014 11:58

Rest in Peace the bravehearts. May God give strength to their families in time of grief.

nelson
BRFite
Posts: 988
Joined: 02 Mar 2008 21:10

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby nelson » 29 Mar 2014 16:26

Due respect to the departed souls.

The coverage by media is least surprising. It is in stark contrast to the manner in which an accident, involving non- US origin plane/ military equipment in Indian service, is covered. The strangle-hold is evident, IMO.


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Balaji, brar_w, Google Feedfetcher, kvraghav, souravB, tsarkar and 74 guests