Military Flight Safety

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darshand
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby darshand » 26 Mar 2015 18:16

Shreeman wrote:Not sure you can call it "done its job". Crashworthiness score seems to be less than perfect here.


A bit of googling would have helped there.
http://theatlasgroup.biz/wp-content/upl ... eaming.gif

The armoured part survived, the rest didn't. As per design. There's no need for sarcastic statements like "TFTA flight data recorder after unkind contact with ground."

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby shiv » 27 Mar 2015 12:11

Surya wrote:hate to be the one who posts this
Navy Dornier goes down

1 crew rescued - search going on for other 2

Sadly, I guessed that we would lose a daughter, a sister, a wife

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/d ... 037339.ece
Naval divers on Thursday evening located the 16-metre-long fuselage section of the Dornier aircraft that crashed into the sea on the night of March 24 and recovered the body of Lieutenant Kiran Shekhawat, Navy officials said. The body has been taken to Goa.

Earlier in the day, naval hydrographic vessel INS Makar’s side-scan sonar detected a large metallic object, believed to be that of the crashed Dornier. Subsequently, divers from another ship, INS Matanga, began search for the wreckage.

The aircraft was on a routine training mission with three personnel on board when it lost contact with air traffic control 25 nautical miles off the Goa coast.

Commander Nikhil Joshi ejected from the aircraft and was rescued by a fishing boat. Co-pilot Sub-Lieutenant Abhinav Nagori is still missing.

Lieutenant Kiran Shekhawat was part of the women’s contingent that marched down Rajpath during the Republic Day celebrations in January. She is married to a Naval officer.


RIP my dear daughter :cry:

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Jagan » 27 Mar 2015 18:58

RIP Lt Shekhawat.

Seems like a possible ditching ? Dorniers do not have ejection seats.

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby shiv » 28 Mar 2015 08:28

http://english.manoramaonline.com/news/ ... raced.html
Panaji: The body of the Lt. Abhinav Nagori, the co-pilot of the Dornier-228 maritime surveillance aircraft that crashed into the Arabian Sea near Goa, was recovered on Friday, an officer said.

Lt. Nagori's body was recovered from the fuselage of the aircraft, which was located on Thursday.

The officer said the body was taken to Goa.

On Thursday, the body of Lt. Kiran Shekhawat, the flight observer, was also found in the fuselage of the aircraft.

Commander Nikhil Kuldip Joshi, the pilot, was rescued by a passing boat from a fishermen's hamlet off Karwar and transferred to a naval fast interceptor craft.

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby parshuram » 06 Apr 2015 14:20


shiv
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby shiv » 07 Apr 2015 05:42


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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby wig » 26 Apr 2015 18:21

Air Force chopper crashes; crew bailed out near Suratgarh
An Air Force helicopter on a routine exercise crashed with a three member crew bailing out safely in Suratgarh city of Sriganganagar district, a defence spokesman said on Sunday.

IAF helicopter MI 35 met with the crash around 8.30pm on Saturday night and three members of the crew escaped and bailed out safely, the defence PRO said.

A Court of Inquiry was ordered by the IAF, he said, adding that the reason behind the crash and the names of crew members were not disclosed yet.

An army exercise on the ground was underway in the western sector when the mishap took place, he said.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 059791.cms

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Venu » 08 May 2015 13:29

BBC reporting a pakistani military helicopter crash, killing the Norwegian and Philippine ambassadors. RIP.
(Question is what could ambassadors of two different countries doing in pakistan and to travel in a same military helicopter?)

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby sum » 08 May 2015 13:59

^^ It said that they were to inagurate some project in Gilgit.

Are these countries also funding projects in PoK?

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby tushar_m » 08 May 2015 19:18

Image


Pakistan MI-17 helicopter crashes in Gilgit-Baltistan killing Philippines and Norway ambassador


Ambassador of Philippines Domingo D Lucenario Jr, Ambassador of Norway Leif Larsen and the wives of the Malaysian and Indonesian ambassadors were killed in a helicopter crash in Naltar Valley in Gilgit-Baltistan, Director-General Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) Major-General Asim Bajwa said in a tweet on Friday.

Two pilots were also killed when the Pakistan Army helicopter crash-landed on a school in Naltar Valley. Media reports identified the two pilots as Major Altamash and Major Faisal. Injuries were also reported from the incident in which Dutch Ambassador Marcel de Vink and the Polish ambassador were injured.

The injured have been taken to the emergency ward of the Combined Military Hospital in Gilgit, hospital officials said.Earlier, in a series of tweets, Bajwa said that six Pakistanis and 11 foreigners were on board the MI-17 helicopter.The convoy of three helicopters was carrying a delegation of foreign diplomats and their aides to Gilgit-Baltistan.

“It was a diplomatic trip with members of 37 countries in total,” said a passenger in one of the helicopters, who requested anonymity, adding that the school had caught fire after the crash.
“We have been told to send in as many ambulances as we can because the situation there is 'urgent',” said a senior official.The injured were being air-lifted to the military hospital in Gilgit, added another senior local police official.

Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif was travelling to Gilgit on a separate aircraft to launch two projects when the accident happened. He returned to Islamabad, his office said.President Mamnoon Hussain and PM Nawaz have expressed grief and sorrow over the incident, said a report published on Radio Pakistan

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby A Sharma » 08 May 2015 21:01

NDTV
Mig-27 crashes in W Bengal.Pilot ejects safely but 2 killed on ground

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby pmund » 08 May 2015 22:38

Why are there so many MiG 27 crashes in Bengal? Since 1993, there seem to have been 16!
http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/Airc ... ervice.htm

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Karan M » 08 May 2015 22:42

Because KKD has MiG-27s and they practice low level flying including naval strikes.. must put a heavy stress on airframes.

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Rahul M » 08 May 2015 22:53

because most are based there nowadays ? and hashimara has quite poor weather.

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby pmund » 08 May 2015 23:15

The pilot stayed with the plane till the last moment. A friend of mine says he is apparently the CO of one of the two units in Hashimara. He reported loss of power above Alipurduar town and steered it away from the heavily populated areas. If he had waited a few seconds longer, he wouldn't have made it. Tragic that two people died on the ground.

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby member_20067 » 09 May 2015 01:24

These migs are now really becoming flying bricks... time to give them their due rest..I fear in the quest of maintaining squadron strength we are just bleeding ourselves to death---lets focus on smaller but more quality fleets ---- instead of doing this catch up on two front war.. it is not sustainable.... we should just park enough nuclear warheads in the northern border....

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Sid » 09 May 2015 01:57

^^And what do you suggest IAF to fly instead?

LCA? Oops... too soon?

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby pmund » 09 May 2015 20:06

I have seen pictures of the Mig 27 crash site. The ejection seat and canopy lie barely 2-3 metres from the massive crater formed by the impact, which indicates that the pilot indeed stayed with the jet till the very last second. what steely nerves indeed!

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby kmkraoind » 19 May 2015 13:03

GAURAV C SAWANT ‏@gauravcsawant

Su 30 crash in the east. Nagaon. Eastern Air Command confirms pilot ejected. Breaking on @HeadlinesToday

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby tsarkar » 19 May 2015 13:38

MiG-27s are based out of Jodhpur & Kalaikunda, so most crashes happen in vicinity.

The Soviet philosophy was since fighters became obsolete during the cold war, airframes, engines & LRUs were rated for flight hours much lesser than their western counterparts. Which is why despite 165 airframes being inducted, around 80+ are in service today.

Which is also why 59 Mirage 2000 serve in 3 squadrons but 75+ MiG-29 were required for equipping 3 squadrons.

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby shaun » 19 May 2015 13:55

IAF Su-30MKI Crashes near Tezpur Air Base

An Indian Air Force (IAF) Su-30MKI fighter aircraft was on a routine sortie. It crashed at about 1230 hrs, today around 36 kms south of Tezpur in Assam. The aircraft took off at 1217 hrs from Tezpur air base. Both the pilots safely ejected. A Court of Inquiry (CoI) has been ordered to investigate into the cause of the accident.
http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=121847

sixth crash in 5 years.. :(

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby ramana » 20 May 2015 09:02

X-post from Civil crashes thread.....

johneeG wrote:

It seems this issue of crashes in IAF came up sometime back and then defence minister replied in Parliament and released some figures:

I have no idea about these journos or the information in these articles. Just posting them here because they seem to be related to the issue of the thread.

Indian Air Force lost half of MiG fighter jets in deadly crashes
Gautam Datt | Mail Today | New Delhi, May 3, 2012 | UPDATED 11:57 IST


The tendency of MiG aircraft to come crashing down - right from the time it became the backbone of the Indian Air Force over four decades ago - earned the fighter jet epithets such as "flying coffin" and "widow-maker".

On Wednesday, figures divulged by defence minister A.K. Antony in Parliament reinforced in numerical terms how the ageing Soviet-era fleet had shockingly been on a wing and a prayer for such a long period but still not grounded.

The Rajya Sabha was informed that over the past 40 years, India had lost more than half of its MiG combat fleet of 872 aircraft. The minister disclosed that "482 MiG aircraft accidents took place till April 19, 2012".

Antony also revealed that these crashes led to the loss of precious lives of 171 pilots, 39 civilians and eight persons from other services. The minister went on to state that the cause of the accidents were "both human error and technical defects".

The revelation in Parliament was damning enough to evoke an immediate response from experts. "The Indian Air Force has lost several talented pilots, senior and junior, thanks to the flying coffin that the MiGs are. It is very easy for officers on the ground conducting inquiries to blame pilots and the human element after each crash. But each IAF pilot puts his life at stake from day one," a retired Wing Commander from Pune said.

Drawing a comparison with Pakistan, which is not exactly in the pink of health financially, another IAF officer said the neighbouring country does not have such a high incidence of young fighter pilots losing their lives as they have been flying more sophisticated fighter jets for years now. "Each time a MiG goes down, people talk of millions and billions of rupees getting lost, but there is no value for a pilot's life," the officer observed.

Notwithstanding such overwhelming evidence against its frontline fleet, the IAF was of the view that not much should be read into the numbers because MiGs were the only aircraft flown for most of the time.
It also asserted that "serious efforts" had gone into bringing the crash rate considerably down.

Former vice chief of air staff Pranab Kumar Barbora said that while it was a fact that the IAF has lost many MiGs and quite a few pilots, the rate of accidents in the context of the number of flying hours had been reduced substantially. Air Marshal Barbora, who had flown a MiG-21 just before he retired in 2010, maintained that it was a fantastic aircraft even as its high landing speed (around 340 kmph for some variants) made it slightly tricky to handle. He said no aircraft was offered for flying in the IAF without any kind of serviceability.

Air Marshal (retd) T.S. Randhawa, who was the director general of inspection and safety, said the IAF dealt with accidents with utmost seriousness and a concerted all-round effort was being made to ensure that the crash rate came down. "The number of accidents doesn't tell the real story," he said.

MiG historyClick here to EnlargeIt, however, indicates the problem of shortage of aircraft. The IAF's fighter fleet strength currently stands at 34 squadrons. According to the force's calculations, the number will further dip to 31 in the coming years and it would not reach the desired levels of 42 squadrons before 2027.

This is essentially owing to delays in getting replacements for ageing planes. The parliamentary standing committee took note of these shortages in its recent report, highlighting the fact that the MiG fleet was "overstretched".

The first MiG was bought by the country in 1966. Since then, the IAF has been flying various variants of the fighter jet. Different versions of the MiG-21 are still in service out of which the T-69/69B (trainer), T-75 (BIS) and (Bison), T-77 (Badal) and T-96 (Trishul) have been flying for more than 40 years.

While the IAF has grounded the MiG-23MF, MiG-23BN and MiG-25, the MiG-27 and 29 have still got more than 25 years of life.

The air force has already begun phasing out MiG-21s in batches and they would be out of service by the end of the decade. The MiG-27s will be phased out next and the MiG-29s are being upgraded. All these aircraft are stationed at frontline bases across the country - from Hashimara in the east to Jodhpur and Jaisalmer in the west.

The MiG-21 is a particularly difficult aircraft to manoeuvre because of its high-speed landing and restricted runway visibility owing to the canopy design. Since it is a single-engine aircraft, bird-hits tend to affect it more. Environmental factors peculiar to Indian conditions, too, impact the aircraft.

"As a senior pilot, I have trained several juniors on the MiGs and we have faced problems. But in keeping with the unwritten code of the armed forces, we could never point out shortcomings in the aircraft," the retired Wing Commander said.

"It is an established fact that several young IAF pilots lost their lives because they were not willing to eject despite engine flameouts. Nobody ever cares about these factors as the super bosses have their own point to prove - that MiGs are very safe and airworthy," another officer pointed out sarcastically.

It is difficult to calculate the cost of the entire MiG fleet since various versions of the jet have been bought over a period of 40 years. The latest variant, called Bison, is estimated to be worth Rs20 crore. The IAF has over 100 operational Bisons. Furthermore, the cost of upgrade of the MiG-29s alone will amount be around US $940 million.


Link


IAF crashes lose one fighter squadron every 2 yrs

Over the last five financial years a total of 50 IAF aircraft have crashed, including 37 fighters and 13 helicopters
Ajai Shukla | New Delhi March 21, 2013 Last Updated at 00:48 IST
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According to figures released by the defence ministry (MoD) in parliament today, the Indian Air Force (IAF) loses the equivalent of one fighter squadron (16-18 fighters) in crashes every two years. With the IAF repeatedly expressing concern over the declining number of squadrons - now down to 32-33 squadrons against a minimum operational requirement of 42 squadrons - even the induction of new aircraft like the Rafale fighter will not make up the numbers.

Over the last five financial years, including the current year that ends on March 31, a total of 50 IAF aircraft have crashed, including 37 fighters and 13 helicopters. Breaking this down year-wise, the MoD says 8 fighters and 2 helicopters crashed in 2008-09; 10 fighters and 2 helicopters crashed in 2009-10; 6 fighters and 6 helicopters crashed in 2010-11; 9 fighters and 1 helicopter crashed in 2011-12; and 4 fighters and 2 helicopters have crashed in the current year.

"In the above accidents, a total of 17 pilots and 18 Service personnel were killed. Also, 6 civilians were killed and 25 injured," the MoD statement says.

With no insurance covering military aircraft, the financial loss can be assessed only in terms of replacement cost. With each Sukhoi-30, the cheapest aircraft being currently inducted, costing close to Rs 350 crore, the loss of eight fighters per year to crashes amounts to an annual loss of over Rs 2,800 crore. The Rafale, going by current indications, could cost Rs 450-500 crore per aircraft, which is also the anticipated price of the Indo-Russian Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft that will only be operational at the end of this decade.

For the IAF, crashes are a serious issue. On November 05, 2012, Defence Minister A K Antony had spoken to the Parliamentary Consultative Committee for Defence about the high number of crashes. Antony said the IAF was focusing on "the training standards of young fighter aircrew," by "strengthening of training procedures."

This innocuous statement is shorthand for one of the IAF's most critical problems today: the compromise in basic training after the grounding of the entire basic trainer fleet of HPT-32 aircraft in 2009 in response to a series of accidents involving this aircraft. While a new basic trainer was being selected and the contract finalised, rookie IAF pilots underwent makeshift training, learning basic flying on the relatively advanced Kiran trainer.

Currently, the first batch of Pilatus PC-7 Mark-II basic trainers, bought from Switzerland, are being inducted and the first batch of pilots will begin training in July. This, say senior IAF officers, is expected to bring down accident rates significantly.

In the second half of the last decade, the induction of the Hawk advanced jet trainer, bought from BAE Systems of the UK, had significantly reduced the IAF's accident rate.

Also in the development pipeline is the Intermediate Jet Trainer, which Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd is developing as a Stage-2 trainer. Rookie pilots who have completed Stage-1 training on the Pilatus, would do Stage-2 training on the IJT before graduating to the Hawk AJT for Stage-3 training.

"Only after undergoing these three stages of training can a pilot get into the cockpit of a frontline combat fighter. Any shortcuts would lead to high accident rates during operational flying," says Pushpinder Singh, the publisher of Vayu magazine and an expert on combat aviation.

"A decade or so back, the IAF was losing almost a squadron of fighters every year to crashes. The current rate is actually good by comparison. As the IAF fleet becomes more modern and the old MiG-21s and MiG-27s retire, we will see a further decline in accidents," says Air Marshal Pranab K Barbora, a former IAF vice chief.

To reduce helicopter accident rates, Antony told parliament that "an unusually high number of accidents and incidents on helicopters occur, when they are operating away from their parent base", and so all helicopter units had undergone a special inspection. Some "shortcomings" had been found and they were being rectified.


Link

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Bhaskar_T » 21 May 2015 08:17

AajTak showing an AirForce plane landed on Yamuna Express Way (In Hindi it says, Yamuna express way par vayusena ka viman 6:45 par utra). Anybody has more news? :(
PS - Or is it the test which AirForce was doing that they want a 3km infrastructure in emergencies to allow planes to land.

Added later - My apologies, it is the Trial landing in case of emergencies. There are not so good quality 2 pics as well, I can't ID the aircraft (has a refuel probe in nose).
Last edited by Bhaskar_T on 21 May 2015 08:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby shiv » 21 May 2015 08:18

ONly marginally relevant to this thread

The Astra missile that was to be tested by firing from an Su-30 was tested
http://idrw.org/astra-test-fired-while- ... -maneuver/

The entire fleet has not been grounded.

More in the "Why do civil planes crash less often" thread.

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby shiv » 21 May 2015 08:18

Bhaskar_T wrote:AajTak showing an AirForce plane landed on Yamuna Express Way (In Hindi it says, Yamuna express way par vayusena ka viman 6:45 par utra). Anybody has more news? :(
PS - Or is it the test which AirForce was doing that they want a 3km infrastructure in emergencies to allow planes to land.

Test

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Bhaskar_T » 21 May 2015 08:25

Shiv ji - Thanks. Would you be able to identify the aircraft (very poor pictures though)?

Image Image

Admins - Please delete or move my posts if they are not relevant for this thread. I don't know if I myself can move my posts to an appropriate thread?

shiv wrote:
Bhaskar_T wrote:AajTak showing an AirForce plane landed on Yamuna Express Way (In Hindi it says, Yamuna express way par vayusena ka viman 6:45 par utra). Anybody has more news? :(
PS - Or is it the test which AirForce was doing that they want a 3km infrastructure in emergencies to allow planes to land.

Test

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby arshyam » 21 May 2015 10:09

^^ Mirage 2000, looks like.

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Manish_P » 21 May 2015 15:49

It was the Mirage 2000

IAF jet lands successfully on Yamuna expressway

A tougher ask would be if it is one of the newly upgraded ones :)

PS: I always wince when i see this thread at the top of the forum... kind of expect to read bad news. This instance was a pleasant change. Whew!

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby shiv » 21 May 2015 17:38

Could we shift all posts unrelated to accidents to the appropriate thread please! The Mirage landing on highway was posted here by mistake as everyone thinks that IAF is only busy crashing.

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby shravanp » 21 May 2015 18:05

There's Jag's video on u tube, which has landing on runways and taking off from grass/lawn type of landscape. Not sure which air force it belonged to, however the english accent sounded Indian.

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby ramana » 21 May 2015 18:10

shiv, Its OK. The reason highway landings are to be used is for safety. So Mirage demonstrating safe landing on highway is good news for this thread.

The goal does not appear to be to operate of highways like Sweden does.

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby vasu raya » 23 May 2015 07:15

Any report on the cause of the Dornier crash off the coast of Goa last month?

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby shiv » 03 Jun 2015 16:05

http://www.thestatesman.com/news/bengal ... 67124.html
Hawk Crash
A Hawk Advanced Jet Trainer of the Indian Air Force (IAF) crashed in Jharkhand on Wednesday, an official said, adding that both pilots ejected safely.

The crash took place near Baharagora, a small town in the south-east corner of Jharkhand, around 50 km West of Kalaikunda airbase in West Bengal.

The crash took place around 1.30 p.m.

"The pilots ejected from the aircraft, and both of them are safe," an IAF official said.

An IAF rescue team has been despatched to the crash site to recover the plane wreckage, the official said adding that a court of enquiry has been instituted into the incident.

Read more at http://www.thestatesman.com/news/bengal ... gxcAaAK.99

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Rakesh » 03 Jun 2015 19:00

Indian Air Force fighter plane crashes in Odisha
http://www.orissadiary.com/CurrentNews.asp?id=59439

The article was great to publish the serial number of the crashed BAe Hawk - A3492. A search on Airliners, revealed the exact aircraft during her flying days. Glad to know the pilots are safe and no casualties on the ground.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/1/4/8/1356841.jpg

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/0/4/9/1355940.jpg

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby member_20067 » 03 Jun 2015 22:56

Ferry flights--- to India--- I think initial batch---- this is getting ridiculous... one aircraft on an average every month...glad that pilots are safe

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby rohitvats » 05 Jun 2015 11:10

Rakesh wrote:Indian Air Force fighter plane crashes in Odisha
http://www.orissadiary.com/CurrentNews.asp?id=59439 <SNIP>


Just realized yesterday that the instructor is an acquaintance from maternal village. Has sustained arm fracture while student pilot has some sort of head injury. But nothing serious. Punched out on time.

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby pankajs » 09 Jun 2015 10:44

Sitanshu Kar ‏@SpokespersonMoD 3h3 hours ago New Delhi, Delhi

One ICG Dornier a/c on a routine surveillance sortie over sea, off Chennai coast, is overdue since 2200 hr last night. SAR on.
Sitanshu Kar ‏@SpokespersonMoD 3h3 hours ago New Delhi, Delhi

The missing Dornier a/c was the latest induction in ICG, in 2014, and was being flown by highly experienced crew.

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby shiv » 10 Jun 2015 06:14

Hmmm - one more Dornier? Strange.

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby kmkraoind » 16 Jun 2015 08:32

ANI ‏@ANI_news
- IAG Jaguar crashes 18 km away from Allahabad.
- IAF Jaguar crashed at 8:47 AM, pilots ejected safely. Court of inquiry ordered.


Addendum:
ANI ‏@ANI_news

First picture of IAF Jagaur which was crashed 13 km away from Allahabad.

Image
Last edited by kmkraoind on 16 Jun 2015 08:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Nikhil T » 16 Jun 2015 08:48

It's an alarming rate of crashes for IAF recently. I just wonder what goes on in a pilots mind as he straps up for a sortie.


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