Sandipan wrote:Ravi - The first sukhoi crash has nothing to do with switching off the FCS and it was related to failure of FBW as admitted by RM A K Anthony. It was not a human error of shutting off a switch as suggested by you.
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IAF PRO Group Captain M G Mehta on Monday said, “The aircraft was on a routine training exercise when the incident occurred and both pilots managed to eject to safety. An inquiry has been ordered into the incident.”
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Rajasthan defence PRO Lt Col. N N Joshi stated that the Sukhoi aircraft took off from Jodhpur at around 4.30 pm at the IAF range in Pokharan but crashed sometime between 5.30 pm and 5.45 pm. While officials reached the site of the crash, the black box has not yet been recovered.
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Sources also said that the aircraft that crashed was a brand new fighter that had recently been rolled out by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) in India and was part of an upcoming squadron in Pune.
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The earlier crash, which was attributed to a failure in the flight control system, was never conclusively investigated as the black box was completely destroyed.
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RaviBg wrote:SanjibGhosh wrote:this is very sad thing indeed but moreover it is surprising as well!! After an unmatched record for 12 yr ... what went wrong !!! 2 crashes in a year !!!
Few questions
If both the fighters are from same lot ? Does they belong to same sqd? Who produced it HAL or Russians ? How old are those are fighters? Was the previous crash investigation was done properly (I hope that wasn't a cover up)?
any idea ...
Please search on BR for the previous discussion. It is not that hard. The cause for the previous crash was identified and perhaps has already been fixed. All your questions can be answered if you look on BR or on the web about the previous crash.
Kartik wrote:
produce some source with some figures to back your claims on "only now in very recent times that the IAF finally has had a decent number of flight hours produced on MKI's" or cut the crap.
Kartik wrote:.....the 18 Su-30MK and Ks were flogged to a level that they were left with about 30% of their service life intact by the time the IAF decided to replace them with new-build MKIs..even if these didn't have the 6000 hours of the MKI airframe, the regular Su-30 has 3000 hours total technical life....
dorai wrote:Kartik wrote:
produce some source with some figures to back your claims on "only now in very recent times that the IAF finally has had a decent number of flight hours produced on MKI's" or cut the crap.
I can't help that you do not understand the valuing of basic system experience on a operative product. All countries look at total produced flight hours on the entire fleet as a measuring stick.
It doesn't matter if the crash is on a brand new jet like this one or something older. Everyone understands mistakes and accidents will happen it is only when the type has been flying for a long time in great numbers one can speak of any record. A record that has to include training, service and support.
You really don't have to be that smart to understand that the total accumulated Fh on the MKI's is low.
No one else is posting similar sources btw. Like you.
Wing Commander Sandeep Singh (17312) Flying (Pilot) was commissioned in the Indian Air Force as a fighter pilot on 22 Dec 1983. A recipient of Sword of Honour for standing first in the overall order of merit in his course, the officer is a Qualified Flying Instructor with A2 category and an Exceptional Test Pilot. Wg Cdr Sandeep Singh has over 4150 hours of flying and he is qualified on Su-30 MkI, Mig-29 and Mig-21 aircraft. He has been an instructor at the Air Force Test Pilots School, a flight commander of a Mig-21 Squadron, the project test pilot with the 1AF Su-30 Project team in Russia and is presently the Commanding Officer of a Su-30 Mk-1 Squadron. He has been commended by the Chief of the Air Staff for his dedication to duty. As a test pilot with the Su-30 Project team in Russia, he has been instrumental in evolving the navigation, display and weapon employment logic of Su-30 Mk I aircraft. The Su 30 Mk 1 is being hailed as a 'first of its kind' project in which the best of Russian and western technologies have been synergized to produce one of the most potent fighter aircraft in the world. Utilising his operational flying experience, professional knowledge and analytical approach, Wg Cdr Sandeep Singh spearheaded the integration team of Indian, Russian and Western specialists to ensure success of the Su-30 Mk 1 project. In view of his unparalleled knowledge of Su-30 Mk-1 operations and systems, he has been frequently called upon for consultations and briefings at Air Headquarters and various Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) labs on all issues related to the Su-30 Mk 1 programme. Wg Cdr Sandeep Singh was appointed as the Commanding Officer of a newly resurrected Su-30 Mk I Squadron on 15 Apr 04 and entrusted with the task of inducting the latest variant of Su-30 Mk 1 aircraft. Starting with a severely limited number of experienced pilots, engineers and technicians, he has led his team with personal examples to operallonalise the new aircraft, Despite the attendant pressures of forming a new Squadron, he has flown over 400 hours in the last one year. He has shown immense courage, exceptional skill and determination to successfully undertake pioneering missions on the Su-30 Mk I aircraft, such as the record breaking long duration flight of over 9 hour 30 minutes, solo low level aerobatics, air to air refueling and first time firing of guided munitions. For exceptional devotion to duty, The Hon'ble President is pleased to award 'Vayu Sena Medal' to Wing Commander Sandeep Singh.
Viv Sreenivasan wrote:The Sukoi's are pretty reliable, only 2 have crashed after more than a decade of opeartion. How many Mig's have crashed in the same interval? It would have to be around 20-30 id say. The Sukoi's are an order of magnitude more reliable than the Migs.
crisis wrote:3. When the ejection handle is pulled, do both the pilot and the WO eject or is there a way for one to delay his ejection?
negi wrote:^ The AC was piloted by Wing Commander Srivastava and Flight Lieutenant Arora.
crisis wrote:Are there suppressants in place to extinguish engine fire which is activated preferably automatically or manually?
The female voice warning system is known as the Bitching Betty in the US fighter aircraft. It is believed within military aviation circles that most male pilots would respond more quickly to a female voice.
gauravjkale wrote:can anybody please tell me how many F-22, rafale, eurogifhters have crashed till date since induction???
since when did DDM get smart and started reporting wisely??? Hope I don't speak too soon...Less than 10 days ago India's Supreme Commander flew in Sukhoi fighter jet. Now, the entire fleet of Sukhoi 30s has been grounded as a standard operating procedure.
The Indian Air Force (IAF) has lost 265 MiG fighter jets in crashes during the last two decades leaving 140 people dead, Defence Minister A.K. Antony said Wednesday.
'In the last two decades (since April 1989 and up to Nov 26, 2009), 265 MiG fighter aircraft of the IAF have crashed. A total of 96 service personnel and 44 civilians were killed in these cases,' Antony told the parliament in a written reply.
HAL Probe On, Sukhois Grounded
Manu Pubby
Posted online: Thursday , Dec 03, 2009 at 0131 hrs
New Delhi : With the needle of suspicion pointing to possible engine defect, investigators from Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) have reached the site where a Su-30 MKI fighter crashed near Jodhpur on Monday while on a routine training sortie.
Sources said HAL investigators, including an expert on engines, will conduct a preliminary inquiry by Friday. The fighter that went down was A Brand New Aircraft Manufactured by HAL and was part of a new squadron being raised in Pune for possible deployment in Jodhpur. Initial investigations suggested a fire in the engine.
The entire fleet, India’s most advanced, remained on the ground for the third straight day with no flying operations being carried out in Tezpur, Pune and Bareilly where the fighters are based.
“No flying operations have been carried out since the crash. In the technical sense, the fleet has not been grounded and the fighters will be available for operations In Case of Any Emergency,” an IAF officer said.
The IAF has close to 90 Su-30 MKI Fighters in its Inventory and has placed a total order for 230 aircraft. Of this, 140 fighters will be manufactured or assembled by HAL. The earlier batch of aircraft that have been in operation for the past few years were directly imported from Russia.
Sources said the aircraft are being inspected by ground crew for possible defects but the all-clear to resume regular flying will come only after the preliminary inquiry. This is the second time this year that the Su-30 MKI fleet has been grounded.
The fleet was earlier grounded after the first-ever crash involving a Sukhoi on April 30. The fleet was grounded for close to a month after a pilot was killed in the crash. That crash could not be conclusively investigated as the black box of the aircraft was completely gutted. Though the black box was even sent to the UK for forensic examination, little data could be extracted. A preliminary inquiry had pointed to “likely failure of the fly-by-wire system” which led to the crash.
[/quote]Juggi G wrote:
New Delhi : With the needle of suspicion pointing to possible engine defect, investigators from Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) have reached the site where a Su-30 MKI fighter crashed near Jodhpur on Monday while on a routine training sortie.
Sources said HAL investigators, including an expert on engines, will conduct a preliminary inquiry by Friday. The fighter that went down was A Brand New Aircraft Manufactured by HAL and was part of a new squadron being raised in Pune for possible deployment in Jodhpur. Initial investigations suggested a fire in the engine.
bodhi wrote:Same engine for Russian manufactured MKIs...shoddy assembling by HAL?
The wait for the enquiry report is absolutely unbearable
bodhi wrote:Same engine for Russian manufactured MKIs...shoddy assembling by HAL?
Shivji, I totally agree with you about not jumping to conclusions. But Bodhi has a valid point here - Engines assembled in India allegedly catching fire. So it is but natural for that doubt to rise in one's mind. And please mind the Question Mark he's added after the "conclusion", which means he is not really concluding it but merely raising a doubt.shiv wrote:With respect Bodhiji - the attitude you show, if copied by the IAF and HAL would be exactly in line with what many of us patriotic BRFites expect of fellow Indians - i.e shoddy, incompetent and in a hurry to reach conclusions.
Dmurphy wrote:I suppose we made a hasty judgement about him instead.
JMT.
bodhi wrote:Shivji...btw are you shiv aroor by any chance? Haven't gone through all the older threads to know if you have been asked this question before.
Personal accusations can definitely be done without. I haven't had the chance to go through all the threads completely but i do see that any statements against HAL is generally not tolerated.
This is a forum where everyone i though had the rights to express their views...if not..then why dont we write down in the forum guidelines that statements against anything which is not appreciated by the BRF Oldies should not be made. How about making sure that you screen all the posts made by newbies till he has been moulded into the mature posters that you would like them to become. Shiv...you have over 5000 posts....dont tell me that not once have you expressed your frustrations on the forums.
MKIs dropping down regularly is unbearable...2 in a year is painful enough...If a new AC crashes which has new engines (?) it is concerning. i know i am not qualified or knowledgable enough to be a part of your "patriotic" BRFites who understand the intricacies perfectly but the main reason for joining this forum was because am interested and wanted to learn.
Personal attackes can be done without....a mature poster like you should know that.
ohh..and i forgot to add...i am in no hurry for the IAF to complete the investigation in a hurry..by all means they should do the investigations thoroughly...it's the wait that goes with any investigation which is unbearable.
shoddy assembling by HAL
The wait for the enquiry report is absolutely unbearable
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