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Military Flight Safety

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Sid
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Sid » 23 Feb 2017 08:54

So C-130 was bought without our legendary multi-year, multi-weather, multi-altitude and multi-controversies?

But all things said, a night landing at such altitude and with night vision equipment can be very tricky. We should wait for a more credible source then TOI with details in accident, that centerline theory looks sketchy at best.

rohiths
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby rohiths » 23 Feb 2017 08:57

Ladakh is very difficult terrain for aircraft and needs great pilot skills. The chances of error is also high.
Now that the C-130 is damaged in a remote location, it is difficult to repair as well.

We should develop road infrastructure in these areas. Spending $200 Million to improve road infrastructure will help a lot more than throwing it at a plane in such areas

Nick_S
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Nick_S » 23 Feb 2017 17:16

Rajat Pandit‏@rajatpTOI 5h5 hours ago
IAF says damaged C-130J now back at Homebase at Hindon for repair & maintenance

----

After all the news on major damage to the aircraft, seems like it was just a flesh wound.

deejay
Forum Moderator
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby deejay » 24 Feb 2017 10:47

Since the aircraft is back, I presume, the damage is not substantial. On the other hand gentlemen, IAF has been trying some crazy stuff recently. Landing at DBO, night landing at Thoise (and I thought it will never be tried), landing C17 at Mechuka etc. Lots of fighter trials on highway landing too.

Both C130 accident and incident have been while trying really challenging stuff. Some limits are being pushed. Sometimes they do not work out. There have been losses and it is sad but I would rather have IAF try these than not try these.

All the best to IAF for future trials! Keep the testing the limits.

pandyan
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby pandyan » 24 Feb 2017 17:54

Sir how do the services maintain the knowledge when they push the limits?

In ITvity world it will be called as tribal knowledge and only a handful would know how far to push the limits and outcome

Rakesh
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Rakesh » 24 Feb 2017 18:01

When I visited INS Delhi, on key machinery and components there is a paper taped to the surface.

That paper reads, This machine costs x Crores. HANDLE WITH CARE.

deejay
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby deejay » 25 Feb 2017 12:34

pandyan wrote:Sir how do the services maintain the knowledge when they push the limits?

In ITvity world it will be called as tribal knowledge and only a handful would know how far to push the limits and outcome


Each new operations are initiated by a qualified staff only. These initial ops are called trials. SOP's are thereafter built with safety margins on how to conduct safe operations within the challenges that particular operation poses. Sometimes trials conclude that sustained operations to a place or in a role are not possible.

Peculiarities of each operation are documented and laid out clearly. These could be altitude, weather, infrastructure, winds, aircraft load limitation, ground support limitation, etc.

Next the qualified crew evaluate every new pilot who is planned to take on the operations. Only on successful clearance of both role and specific operational situation will the pilot be allowed to take on missions.

JayS
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby JayS » 04 Mar 2017 23:45

I came across this nice video explaining the importance on Aircraft velocity vector at the time of ejection.


AdityaM
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby AdityaM » 07 Mar 2017 01:57

Air Ambulance of Medanta Hospital crash landed near Bangkok, pilot Arunaksha Nandy dead

http://www.india.com/news/india/air-amb ... d-1898938/


Facebook tells me that he was member of the BRF Facebook page.

He was also an ex Surya Kiran pilot and was involved in Kargil.
His FB photos contain some pics of air Suryakiran.

https://m.facebook.com/arunakshanandy

chiru
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby chiru » 15 Mar 2017 16:16

Sukhoi crash near Uttarlai Airbase, Barmer, RJ. Both Pilots ejected safely. Further details awaited

shiv
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby shiv » 15 Mar 2017 17:50

chiru wrote:Sukhoi crash near Uttarlai Airbase, Barmer, RJ. Both Pilots ejected safely. Further details awaited

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/841950876268916737

Rakesh
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Rakesh » 17 Mar 2017 03:43

The Indian Air Force’s Approach To Military Flight Safety
http://www.delhidefencereview.com/2017/ ... ht-safety/

By Flight Lieutenant Dipankar Jha - a veteran of the Indian Air Force where he flew helicopters. An alumnus of the National Defence Academy and XLRI, Jamshedpur, he is a keen watcher of developments in aviation, defence and geopolitics.

Rakesh
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Rakesh » 17 Mar 2017 03:47

shiv wrote:
chiru wrote:Sukhoi crash near Uttarlai Airbase, Barmer, RJ. Both Pilots ejected safely. Further details awaited

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/841950876268916737

Pictures...
https://twitter.com/ANI_news/status/841954672252452865

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19937
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Austin » 08 Apr 2017 15:22

79 killed, 48 aircraft and 21 choppers lost in crashes since 2011: Wake up call for defence modernisation?

http://www.indiatvnews.com/news/india-7 ... ion-376117
A total of 48 military aircraft and 21 helicopters were lost to crashes since 2011 in which 79 people were killed, the government told Lok Sabha today.

Replying to a question, Minister of State for Defence Subhash Bhamre said all such incidents and accidents are thoroughly investigated and preventive actions taken based on probe reports.

The figures bear a stark reminder to a report by a Parliamentary panel that slammed the ‘ad-hocism’, and the ‘casual and lackadaisical’ approach of the government in allocating inadequate amounts for the Defence budget.
×

Gaur
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Gaur » 02 May 2017 17:37


jayasimha
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby jayasimha » 23 May 2017 14:28

IAF Su-30 Fighter Jet Goes Missing Along India-China Border
https://www.thequint.com/india/2017/05/ ... ina-border
A Sukhoi-30 jet with two Indian Air Force pilots went missing on Tuesday, according to Guwahati Metro Community. The last contact was made at 11:30 am in Lakhimpur.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Karthik S » 23 May 2017 14:30

Shiv Aroor‏Verified account @ShivAroor 5m5 minutes ago
More
BREAKING: Indian Air Force Su-30 MKI fighter missing after take-off from Tezpur, Assam. Contact lost about 60km north of air base.


God!! hope all is fine.

shiv
BRF Oldie
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Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby shiv » 26 May 2017 11:56

Karthik S wrote:
ANI‏Verified account @ANI_news 2m2 minutes ago
Assam: Wreckage of missing IAF SU-30 jet found close to the last known position of the aircraft


Good update finally. Hopefully pilots are safe and will be found soon.

Khalsa
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Khalsa » 26 May 2017 15:28

Good God. hey waheguru. May they have ejected and be found starving and with too many mosquito bites.

JayS
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby JayS » 26 May 2017 21:22

Manu pabby tweeted that Su-30 wreckage was found with bodies of two pilots. Sad. RIP.

Marten
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Marten » 26 May 2017 21:26

Regrets and sincere condolences to the families. Am hoping against odds that they survived and Pubby is wrong.

arshyam
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby arshyam » 26 May 2017 21:32

^^ Same here. Hoping for a positive outcome.

Marten
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Marten » 26 May 2017 22:16

Thank heavens. As usual, Pubby is wrong. There is hope if they haven't found them in the wreckage. Would expect that they have ejected safely and are now trying to get the attention of the tracking parties. Praying for them and the families.
pubby on twitter wrote:My mistake, misunderstood the source. No bodies recovered. Ground parties searching area, very difficult terrain.

rahulm
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby rahulm » 26 May 2017 22:27

Conflicting reports. Chaiwala reports suggest both pilots ejected and are safe. Hope,it's true.

Karthik S
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Karthik S » 26 May 2017 22:32

Gurus, do our fighters fly alone or pairs during sorties near border areas.

JayS
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby JayS » 27 May 2017 01:21

rahulm wrote:Conflicting reports. Chaiwala reports suggest both pilots ejected and are safe. Hope,it's true.


Damn this Pubby guy. I hope this is true with all my heart.

shiv
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby shiv » 28 May 2017 19:32

https://twitter.com/airnewsalerts/statu ... 7165829120
#Su-30: Ground Search & Rescue Party have reached crash site. Black box of the aircraft has been recovered. Further search is in progress.

vasu raya
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby vasu raya » 28 May 2017 21:14

In many of the recent crashes, the pilots haven't called a 'may day', lets see what the blackbox has got to say

Gagan
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Gagan » 29 May 2017 04:52

Did the pilots eject or not, they should know by now!
Were the ejection seats still on the plane or not?

Prithwiraj
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Prithwiraj » 29 May 2017 16:35

Gagan wrote:Did the pilots eject or not, they should know by now!
Were the ejection seats still on the plane or not?


Generally if the news is bad which I hope is not.. they will wait till they notify next to the kin before releasing it to press

Surya
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Surya » 29 May 2017 18:54

Still no news on pilots ??

Khalsa
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Khalsa » 30 May 2017 01:24

been trawling like mad for any news.
I am guessing bad news.

They must be involved in recovery of the remains and thus keeping quiet.

I have picked up an unconfirmed rumour of chutes seen.

arshyam
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby arshyam » 30 May 2017 20:50

Khalsa wrote:been trawling like mad for any news.
I am guessing bad news.

They must be involved in recovery of the remains and thus keeping quiet.

I have picked up an unconfirmed rumour of chutes seen.

From the Su-30 thread:
Zynda wrote:Sukhoi-30 Crash: Pilot's Blood Stained Shoe, Other Belongings Found

GUWAHATI: Search and rescue teams on Tuesday found a blood stained shoe, half-burnt PAN card and a wallet of one of the two pilots of the Air Force's Sukhoi-30 fighter jet that crashed near the Assam-Arunachal Pradesh border last week, officials said.

The teams comprising the Army, the Air Force and civil administration personnel had recovered the jet's blackbox on May 28 from the crash site, located in a dense forest.

"Search operations are continuing despite bad weather conditions. However, there is still no trace of the two pilots," Army sources said.

Gagan
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Gagan » 30 May 2017 21:45

It is probably raining like hell there!
Last edited by Gagan on 30 May 2017 23:36, edited 1 time in total.

Prithwiraj
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Prithwiraj » 30 May 2017 21:59

If they failed to eject then chances of survival is practically zero....whereas if they have ejected -- post ejection there can multiple scenarios including loosing consciousness, fatally injured etc. Since they have found some of the items already -- I fear the worst where the bodies might have been dragged by wild animals.....

ramana
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby ramana » 30 May 2017 22:46

Gagan et al, How about we wait for news before speculating on pilots fate?

many people read the forum and we don't want to add to their angst.

Thanks, ramana


Anyone posting rumors and not facts will get a warning.

Khalsa
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Khalsa » 31 May 2017 01:56

Leh (Ladakh)
I was a young kid and was at school in my class paying great solid attention to this pair of Mig-21s that were doing manouveres for the press.
Due to insider knowledge I knew they were going to be photographed against the backdrop of the mountains and be caught for the Diamond Jubiliee Calendar and memrobilia that was to be printed etc etc.

It was hard to keep my eyes on them as I was meant to paying attention to Sanskrit lessons and the Migs were blending beautifully with the mountain color.

Then finally I caught the one that was slow and turning.
I was smiling but it turned into horror as I watch it smash into the mountain side.
Yes Flt Lt Dhamle died. God I remember that man's name like yesterday.

over the next few days various snippets of news reached which included.
The crash had triggered the ejection which saved the body but it was too late.
Or he ejected just before crash but the forward momentum slammed into the mountainside with the chute useless to do anything as it had not even begun deploying.

So a last minute ejection might not save the pilots if there is no space for them to slow down.

http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/PROJECT/Biographies/INDIA/1992_09_25_damle_ranjeet_fatal.htm

Edit: for Ramana Sir. I hope I am not contributing to rumours. Just wanted to share a very sad sad episode with all you guys at BR because I don't think anyone cares for that crash like I did. Spent my young years gazing at every Gajraj taking off and landing at multiple airports.

ramana
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby ramana » 31 May 2017 02:34

WA group was notified that the pilots were recovered.

Lets see.

Khalsa, I get you.

shiv
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby shiv » 31 May 2017 06:30

Khalsa wrote:Edit: for Ramana Sir. I hope I am not contributing to rumours. Just wanted to share a very sad sad episode with all you guys at BR because I don't think anyone cares for that crash like I did. Spent my young years gazing at every Gajraj taking off and landing at multiple airports.

Khalsa I know the feeling. I too spent my childhood watching military aircraft off Lohegaon but the feeling you describe dates from just a few years ago. I was on the golf course in Bengaluru and watched (with pleasure) a Saras pass low over my head and do a touch and go. An hour later I was home only to see TV images of the same plane's burning wreckage not 20 km from where I was.

Khalsa
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Re: Military Flight Safety

Postby Khalsa » 31 May 2017 11:02

shiv wrote:
Khalsa wrote:Edit: for Ramana Sir. I hope I am not contributing to rumours. Just wanted to share a very sad sad episode with all you guys at BR because I don't think anyone cares for that crash like I did. Spent my young years gazing at every Gajraj taking off and landing at multiple airports.

Khalsa I know the feeling. I too spent my childhood watching military aircraft off Lohegaon but the feeling you describe dates from just a few years ago. I was on the golf course in Bengaluru and watched (with pleasure) a Saras pass low over my head and do a touch and go. An hour later I was home only to see TV images of the same plane's burning wreckage not 20 km from where I was.


Oh Man .... that must have been heart breaking.
Sigh.....

Thanks Shiv
Thanks Ramana


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