Discussion on Indian Special Forces

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby member_23455 » 16 Oct 2013 10:01

OPSEC is a line drawn in the sand...no question.

The only question is where is that line drawn, and that is usually driven by a prevailing culture.

Maj. Udai Singh's website has names, faces, even a quasi-official letter from the CO with unit insignia et al. Since it can be reasonably assumed that the website exists with the cooperation of the family--incidentally a fauji family-- and has been visited by serving SG personnel, OPSEC issues would have been considered.

Let's say that an exception was made keeping in mind the need to celebrate a martyr...but you have GOI press releases and even tenders freely attribute SFF, Vikas, ARC, SG references.

Let's go the Israeli way and blank out even the Air Force guys...but until we do that it's disingenuous to lay claim to a mythical standard that does not exist.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rohitvats » 16 Oct 2013 14:26

sameerjoshi wrote:It is the Indian Army's effort to evolve into specialized Helo Ops. The tangible result of the same is to have a SPECOP infil/ exfil capability which is independent of the IAF support (which the army keeps cribbing of) and this also helps in its claim to having a clear understanding and operationalisation of all envisaged roles of Heptr ops to build up its case for an independent Heptr fleet with varied roles.

This unit was probably designated when the tussle for control of the AH64Ds was on its max swing and the army threw all its aces at the MOD.......


If memory serves me right, that unit has existed for quite sometime - independent of the tussle on gunships with IAF.

While I don't recollect the name, the unit was shows in some documentary (possibly on NDTV) where a mock exercise of militants being tracked using ground+UAV sensors was shown along with SF being inserted in higher reaches of mountains to encircle and cut-off the escape route of terrorists.

Coming to true-blue spec-ops capability, what we need to know is whether ALH in such units have active/passive sensors to aid flying in night/mountainous areas/hostile weather. The documentary showed pilots with NVG but nothing beyond that.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 16 Oct 2013 14:45

I am not aware of any Indian helicopter/s in current service coming with any active sensors akin to TFR. Max, they have is weather radar. They also have FLIR. This is very useful but again, not all weather.

The Israeli glass cockpit ones - these include the ALH, plus the ones provided by Kronstadt for the Mi-17V (iirc) do have moving map displays with preloaded maps (you can usually add more with memory sticks) and the display map generator module does the rest.

Take the Pave Low as an example of the gold standard.

Under the Pave Low III program, the Air Force modified nine MH-53H's and 32 HH-53s for night and adverse weather operations. Modifications included forward-looking infrared, inertial global positioning system, Doppler navigation systems, terrain-following and terrain-avoidance radar, an on-board computer, and integrated avionics to enable precise navigation to and from target areas. The Air Force designated these modified versions as MH-53J's.


http://www.mh-53pavelow.com/fact_sheet.html

We lack the TFR, TAR.
Plus there are other aspects which depend on how large the chopper is and how much payload it can carry. The Pave Lows after all, are massive helicopters.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby atreya » 16 Oct 2013 14:47

rohitvats wrote:
sameerjoshi wrote:It is the Indian Army's effort to evolve into specialized Helo Ops. The tangible result of the same is to have a SPECOP infil/ exfil capability which is independent of the IAF support (which the army keeps cribbing of) and this also helps in its claim to having a clear understanding and operationalisation of all envisaged roles of Heptr ops to build up its case for an independent Heptr fleet with varied roles.

This unit was probably designated when the tussle for control of the AH64Ds was on its max swing and the army threw all its aces at the MOD.......


If memory serves me right, that unit has existed for quite sometime - independent of the tussle on gunships with IAF.

While I don't recollect the name, the unit was shows in some documentary (possibly on NDTV) where a mock exercise of militants being tracked using ground+UAV sensors was shown along with SF being inserted in higher reaches of mountains to encircle and cut-off the escape route of terrorists.

Coming to true-blue spec-ops capability, what we need to know is whether ALH in such units have active/passive sensors to aid flying in night/mountainous areas/hostile weather. The documentary showed pilots with NVG but nothing beyond that.


I remember it too, vaguely. There was a scenario posted here, wherein SF are sent on a mission to neutralize pigs and it mentions that unit. Was it something like 'Daggers'? I remember somebody commenting on it, calling it the desi Night Stalker unit.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Viv S » 16 Oct 2013 15:14

rohitvats wrote:While I don't recollect the name, the unit was shows in some documentary (possibly on NDTV) where a mock exercise of militants being tracked using ground+UAV sensors was shown along with SF being inserted in higher reaches of mountains to encircle and cut-off the escape route of terrorists.


?? I have this one bookmarked.

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/watan- ... 1381918059

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby member_27862 » 16 Oct 2013 16:19

atreya wrote:
sameerjoshi wrote:It is the Indian Army's effort to evolve into specialized Helo Ops. The tangible result of the same is to have a SPECOP infil/ exfil capability which is independent of the IAF support (which the army keeps cribbing of) and this also helps in its claim to having a clear understanding and operationalisation of all envisaged roles of Heptr ops to build up its case for an independent Heptr fleet with varied roles.

This unit was probably designated when the tussle for control of the AH64Ds was on its max swing and the army threw all its aces at the MOD.......


If memory serves me right, that unit has existed for quite sometime - independent of the tussle on gunships with IAF.

While I don't recollect the name, the unit was shows in some documentary (possibly on NDTV) where a mock exercise of militants being tracked using ground+UAV sensors was shown along with SF being inserted in higher reaches of mountains to encircle and cut-off the escape route of terrorists.

Coming to true-blue spec-ops capability, what we need to know is whether ALH in such units have active/passive sensors to aid flying in night/mountainous areas/hostile weather. The documentary showed pilots with NVG but nothing beyond that.


I remember it too, vaguely. There was a scenario posted here, wherein SF are sent on a mission to neutralize pigs and it mentions that unit. Was it something like 'Daggers'? I remember somebody commenting on it, calling it the desi Night Stalker unit.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://tarmak007.blogspot.in/2013/10/dhruv-clocks-100000-flying-hours.html

Gentlemen, 301 Army aviation regiment (Spec Ops) is a new raising and was sanctioned a year plus back when the IAF vs Army Helo turf war was its peak........a move which will benefit the Army to a great extent and one which will lead to the WSI (Wpn sys integrated) development format of the ALH

It is being raised at a location which I will not disclose, with the help of HAL, which is inducting the first batch of Rudra ALH - WSI series of Heptrs in this unit.
Avionics include an integrated modular glass cockpit, EW suite with CMDS, MAWS, FLIR, TV & Laser Ranger, INS/ GPS and bells and whistles which our chopper boys will 'oooohhhhh' at!
Armament will be - 20mm Nexter THL20 20mm cannon gun turrent (wing pylon), Nag ATGMs, 12 round pods of 70mm rockets and Mistral AAms......(phew some serious firepower)
It will be devoted to SPECOPS and no IAF heptr unit in the same role will be able to match this unit's capability......will be able to insert 12 fully geared commandos...

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/hal-rudra-attack-helicopter-india/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1aVfuzCipE

BTW the NDTV docu you guys are quoting talks of the 202 Army Aviation Regiment 'The Soaring Gideons' which has a specialized role in the valley as seen in the docu. The link as mentioned before is -
http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/watan- ... 1381919441


Believe it or not there is a very HOT war on between the Army & IAF for the control of airborne assets..........

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby atreya » 16 Oct 2013 17:04

@ Sameer

EXACTLY what I was referring to! Don't know how Gideons became 'Daggers' in my brain :P Thank you!

Here is the link to the scenario I was talking about:

http://www.stratpost.com/army-day-speci ... ng-gideons

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Surya » 16 Oct 2013 17:59

Then report those posts to admins, whats the point in hollering and drawing more attention if it is really secret?


thats the reason for not even getting there if possible


as for admins - that would have been too late - in those cases - that information was sent to me offline (thankfully the posters trusted me :) ) and when the parties I know reviewed - said no to it - the posters graciously did not post.
where feasible one tries to do what one can.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Raja Bose » 16 Oct 2013 20:02

^^^So nobody posted it on BRF publicly and just sent you the info privately, so I fail to see where was the problem which led to your aforementioned hollering and your original presumption that people were not careful? :-? In any case if you feel a certain unit should not be discussed publicly, best is to report it to admins and have the post quietly removed with proper justification rather than make a public post about it which just draws more attention to it. The latter serves no purpose except providing more publicity. As for SG, its existence is less secret than the number of pencils our sarkari offices use (this used to be considered confidential information too btw) so needlessly jumping up and down about it publicly every time they are mentioned doesn't serve any purpose. :)

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Surya » 16 Oct 2013 20:04

they were going to post and that would have been bad

Boss you or anyone is free to do what you want - I am free to only suggest otherwise

follow it if you want :)

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby KrishnaK » 16 Oct 2013 20:32

Surya wrote:in those cases - that information was sent to me offline (thankfully the posters trusted me :) ) and when the parties I know reviewed - said no to it - the posters graciously did not post.
where feasible one tries to do what one can.

The NSA knows now :((

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Raja Bose » 16 Oct 2013 20:44

Surya wrote:they were going to post and that would have been bad

Boss you or anyone is free to do what you want - I am free to only suggest otherwise

follow it if you want :)


Boss my point is simply this....if you are serious about preventing leaks and people babbling out what could be confidential info, there is a better way to do it rather than publicly going :evil: and drawing attention to the offending post. Drawing attention to a secret makes it no longer a secret.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Surya » 16 Oct 2013 21:59

ok since you are the adminullah will do as you want


krishna

:) was waiting for that

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby KrishnaK » 16 Oct 2013 22:23

Surya, couldn't help it.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby A Sharma » 16 Oct 2013 23:06

NSG teams to visit Kenya to study Nairobi terror attack

NSG also unveiled its new acquisitions such as Renault APC-Sherpa, an armoured mobile command vehicle with improvised ladders and platforms. The vehicle would be used in hijack situations and terror attacks.


Not sure why we need to import something like this?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Raja Bose » 16 Oct 2013 23:45

Surya wrote:ok since you are the adminullah will do as you want


That post was my last post before I discovered that I got made adminullah (suddenly started seeing Lock topic and other dangerous options). :mrgreen: But seriously, yes please report any posts which inadvertently reveal confidential info - better late than never.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 16 Oct 2013 23:58

A Sharma wrote:NSG teams to visit Kenya to study Nairobi terror attack

NSG also unveiled its new acquisitions such as Renault APC-Sherpa, an armoured mobile command vehicle with improvised ladders and platforms. The vehicle would be used in hijack situations and terror attacks.


Not sure why we need to import something like this?


Because the geniuses at the MOD have kept Indian auto firms out of defence using all sorts of convoluted decision making and acquisition programs that go nowhere. Whats the status on the FICV for instance or the light transport program, that had the Axe and other designs competing?
Also, what is the status of equipment induction post 26/11 when it comes to the NSG?
The then HM made a big hue and cry about setting up additional hubs, but again, what is the infrastructure in those hubs.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rohitvats » 17 Oct 2013 11:23

sameerjoshi wrote:<SNIP> [color=#8000BF]Gentlemen, 301 Army aviation regiment (Spec Ops) is a new raising and was sanctioned a year plus back when the IAF vs Army Helo turf war was its peak........a move which will benefit the Army to a great extent and one which will lead to the WSI (Wpn sys integrated) development format of the ALH
[i]
<SNIP>


Long story short - 301 Army Aviation Squadron (Spec Ops) is the designation of first Squadron of IA with Rudra gunships.

Now, what we need to look out for is this - Whether 301 is a pure Rudra Squadron or will it be a mix of ALH and Rudra.

If it is former, than I don't see why it should be called Spec Ops - insertion of SF would be ONE of the tasks. IA plan calls for 60 Rudra gunships in 6 x Squadrons for Pivot Corps. A pure Rudra Squadron would serve such a role.

However, given the designation it might be latter - where a mix of ALH+Rudra choppers are used for insertion of SF.

Need to keep a look out for more information as it trickles in.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 18 Oct 2013 11:39

Foreign training for NSG to improve preparedness
The force will also conduct ‘personality profiling tests’ of its commandos. “In this test we will study the profiles of each commando. We will see what they are good at. Some may be good at firing, while others will be skilled in efficiently rappelling down from a hovering chopper. And using the test we will place commandos having varied skills in all our hits (teams of commandos). So that the hits are balanced,” said Arvind Ranjan. A hit comprises six commandos.

The NSG is also in the process of procuring high-tech surveillance and communication equipments. The force will also have ‘tactical extraction platforms’, which are nets hanging from the rear end of helicopters. At a time, 10 commandos can hang on such a net and be evacuated from high-rise buildings and hostile environments, according to Ranjan.

“We are focusing on improving the operational preparedness of our commandos. We are not just procuring the latest equipments and gadgets. But we are also training our commandos,” said the DG.

Modernising force
•The NSG has sent 17 commandos to train with the Special Forces of different countries, including the United States, France and Israel

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2013/20131018/nation.htm#6

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby member_23455 » 18 Oct 2013 11:55

wig wrote:Foreign training for NSG to improve preparedness
The force will also conduct ‘personality profiling tests’ of its commandos. “In this test we will study the profiles of each commando. We will see what they are good at. Some may be good at firing, while others will be skilled in efficiently rappelling down from a hovering chopper. And using the test we will place commandos having varied skills in all our hits (teams of commandos). So that the hits are balanced,” said Arvind Ranjan. A hit comprises six commandos.


:shock: :shock: :shock:

Please someone tell me I did not just read that...

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby member_27862 » 18 Oct 2013 13:18

rohitvats wrote:
sameerjoshi wrote:<SNIP> [color=#8000BF]Gentlemen, 301 Army aviation regiment (Spec Ops) is a new raising and was sanctioned a year plus back when the IAF vs Army Helo turf war was its peak........a move which will benefit the Army to a great extent and one which will lead to the WSI (Wpn sys integrated) development format of the ALH
[i]
<SNIP>


Long story short - 301 Army Aviation Squadron (Spec Ops) is the designation of first Squadron of IA with Rudra gunships.

Now, what we need to look out for is this - Whether 301 is a pure Rudra Squadron or will it be a mix of ALH and Rudra.

If it is former, than I don't see why it should be called Spec Ops - insertion of SF would be ONE of the tasks. IA plan calls for 60 Rudra gunships in 6 x Squadrons for Pivot Corps. A pure Rudra Squadron would serve such a role.

However, given the designation it might be latter - where a mix of ALH+Rudra choppers are used for insertion of SF.

Need to keep a look out for more information as it trickles in.


I will bet on the mix squadron to actually perform the SPECOPs tasking.

This should fit in the role of the armed Blackhawk as in between the US Army Apaches and the Chinooks. Our Rudra between Apaches and desi Chinooks/ ALHs. It should work out good and all the strike/ pivot corps will benefit from the QRT capability offered by this setup with the SF detachments.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby member_27862 » 18 Oct 2013 13:33

RajitO wrote:Foreign training for NSG to improve preparedness
The force will also conduct ‘personality profiling tests’ of its commandos. “In this test we will study the profiles of each commando. We will see what they are good at. Some may be good at firing, while others will be skilled in efficiently rappelling down from a hovering chopper. And using the test we will place commandos having varied skills in all our hits (teams of commandos). So that the hits are balanced,” said Arvind Ranjan. A hit comprises six commandos.
]


:shock: :shock: :shockserve baseis

Please someone tell me I did not just read that...


Does that mean that till date the SAG boys in NSG were made of 'first come serve basis' per 'hit' .......and it has taken us nearly three decades to realize the merits, functionality and selection methodology of a 'balanced team'....:(....better late than never though!!!!

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 18 Oct 2013 20:41

They are basically replicating the IA SF hit equivalent organization with the above. Earlier NSG organization was to have a uniform standard, and all those who met that standard were then organized into hits/buddy pairs w/in hits.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby member_27862 » 18 Oct 2013 20:57

BTW does anyone know why did the MARCO prahar which kept the terrorists engaged on the first night of the 26/11 attacks in the Taj, was not kept in lead with the NSG next day onwards during OP CYCLONE. Is is some turf or protocol issue......?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 18 Oct 2013 21:09

Go to the Mumbai thread in the other forum or check posts under my name. The MARCOS prahar was of limited strength and was hence withdrawn once the NSG was available in strength.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rahul M » 20 Oct 2013 15:58


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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby vaibhav.n » 28 Oct 2013 17:39

New Camo...

Image

Image

ATV and Sniper
Image

Para Motor
Image

3 Para(SF) First Day Cover
Image

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 03 Nov 2013 10:16

NSG plans teams to deal with chemical, nuclear contingencies
In an attempt to expand its scope of counter-terror operations, the National Security Guard has planned to raise specialised teams of commandos, who will be trained to fight in chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear and explosive (CBRNE) contingencies.

The CBRNE are hazards that can be like the Bhopal gas tragedy or could be in the form of an improvised nuclear device and a radiological weapon such as the dirty bomb, which can be used by terrorists. The dirty bomb is a conventional bomb that is packed with a radiological material. When it explodes, the material is dispersed as dust over a wide area. The exposure of people to the hazardous material can cause cancer, genetic damage and infertility.

In the most recent use of chemical weapons, hundreds of people were killed when the nerve agent, Sarin, was used in an attack on the Ghouta agricultural belt in Damascus, Syria, on August 21 this year. The UN confirmed that surface-to-surface rockets containing Sarin were used in the attack.

After the 26/11 terrorist attacks in Mumbai, the NSG decided to have specialised teams of its commandos, who are trained to fight in case of a CBRNE attack. The NSG was created in 1984 and is India's elite counter-terror and anti-hijacking security force.

"If terrorists attacked one of India's major cities, they could also attack a nuclear installation one day. It is after this realisation that the NSG thought of creating CBRNE teams," said sources.

Last year, the NSG pitched its idea of having CBRNE teams to its parent organisation, the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA). The ministry did not give its approval. About six months ago, the NSG again pitched its idea, but they are yet to get a go-ahead and the required funds for establishing the teams.

The NSG has planned to raise an initial three teams of about 100 commandos, who would be trained in CBRNE warfare. The strength of the NSG is made up of officers and men who are on deputation from the Indian Army and the central armed police forces. And over a period of time, the force plans to train all its commandos in the CBRNE warfare.

Sources explained that to fight in such situations, the NSG would have to devise standard operating procedures or be trained by the Special Forces of a foreign country, who have the expertise in operating in CBRNE contingencies.

"They would be able to fight against terrorists in a CBRNE environment in coordination with the National Disaster Response Force (NDRF), who would carry out the task of rescuing people," said sources.

The NSG has also been visiting teams of the NDRF, which is a specialised force for responding to man-made and natural disasters. The NDRF which is controlled by the National Disaster Management Authority has four teams that have been earmarked to deal with CBRNE contingencies.

"On such visits, the NSG examines the kind of equipment the NDRF have and then procures them," explained sources. The NDRF may train the NSG on the proper use of the CBRNE equipment such as gas masks, radiation detectors and the contamination kit.

Since its inception in 1984, the NSG possesses CBRNE equipments, but only has 'rudimentary knowledge' about them. The Indian Army was one of the first in India to be trained in CBRNE warfare. From 1987 onwards, the Army's College of Military Engineering at Pune, started running familiarisation courses in CBRNE warfare.

"But the NSG were never imparted any organised training in fighting in a CBRNE environment. Only a couple of years ago, courses on CBRNE emergency management were started for the NSG. But these were only lectures on CBRNE. There was no training," explained sources.


http://www.tribuneindia.com/2013/20131103/nation.htm#5

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sum » 03 Nov 2013 23:29

^^ So, a desert force like the 3 Para/10 Para and naval SF like the MARCOS have same camo scheme now?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby RoyG » 04 Nov 2013 03:50

I believe the camo pattern was replaced by the americans after feedback from troops in Iraq. What sort of selection process is in place?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby member_23455 » 04 Nov 2013 07:36

Don't read too much into the camo schemes. Like the weapons, nothing is "standard" in the SF context. If the camo sticks out in the operating environment it won't be used.

The American experience has been...less than optimal

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby member_27862 » 04 Nov 2013 12:46

RajitO wrote:Don't read too much into the camo schemes. Like the weapons, nothing is "standard" in the SF context. If the camo sticks out in the operating environment it won't be used.

The American experience has been...less than optimal


Yup, Rajit is right. Else I see no reason why the web equipment is still in the green camo scheme.......

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Hiten » 18 Nov 2013 19:41

Robotic Critters For Indian Air Force Commandos
Robotic Critters For Indian Air Force Commandos
The Indian Air Force [IAF] to test the use of highly portable reconnaissance robots for its Special Forces [SF].

The IAF recently issued a Request For Proposal [RFP] seeking to acquire surveillance robots, which they have additionally/optionally identified as Recon Scout XT®. The RFP, released on IAF's behalf, by the Garud Regimental Training Centre [GRTC], seeks to acquire, initially, 2 such robots & 1 control console.

The relatively recently raised Garud Commando Force operates with the primary mandate of undertaking exfiltration operations of pilots, downed behind enemy lines. Through the course of its existence, its been progressively kitting itself with better hardware. Starting off with the OFB-made INSAS, they transitioned to the Soviet-origin Kalashnikov assault rifles, & have now standardised themselves on the Israeli TAR21 [or its license-manufactured, OFB variant, the Zittara], the firearm of choice of all well-funded SF outfits in the country. The 2 robots it seeks to purchase might suggest that they would like to evaluate its usage & decide how best to incorporate it into their operational methodology.

Given that they've actually named the kind of system they're eyeing by its trade name, it might have an upper hand in this particular contract. It needs to be a Titanium-encased, low noise, hand-hurled device, that can be conveniently carried in an oversized pocket, weighing no more than 600 grams. This video, below, shows how the Recon Scout XT operates. Nifty device to have in your pocket when you're out saving valuable lives.

Needless to say, it would be highly desirable if an Indian company were to have a similar home-brewed solution that meets the IAF's requirements.

Godspeed

Also Read: Highly agile, autonomous & co-operative robots in action ~ Dr. Vijay Kumar [TED Talk]


via http://www.aame.in/2013/11/robotic-crit ... force.html

video of the Recon Scout XT


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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 23 Nov 2013 20:24

From FB, FWIW
according to all para sf battelions and marcos teams inducted with para sf,on joint ops...operating the m4a1 and the tar21(standrd issue),
the m4a1 is facing reliability problems.the piston spring and the feed valve jams after constant fire,often leading to field striping.a soldier frm the marcos, said to me,tht during acclamatization using the m4 compromises time and mobility,infact they are putting a big question to a soldier's confidence.jamming is very often,and field striping the m4 is aweful.
usa dumping junk in india,with a lame friendly face!!!!!

admin

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby VikB » 24 Nov 2013 00:07

sameerjoshi wrote:BTW does anyone know why did the MARCO prahar which kept the terrorists engaged on the first night of the 26/11 attacks in the Taj, was not kept in lead with the NSG next day onwards during OP CYCLONE. Is is some turf or protocol issue......?

the QRT from the nearby naval base was the first to respond and reach Taj. their and later Marcos mandate was clear - prevent the terrorist from leaking to the naval base. in the initial moments the fear was that the naval base was/would be attacked. Once NSG came in, they moved out. Also, NSG is under the home min so the whole show was being managed by delhi. of course NSG also had numbers to coordinate between various locations in the city.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby George J » 27 Nov 2013 23:54

sameerjoshi wrote:BTW does anyone know why did the MARCO prahar which kept the terrorists engaged on the first night of the 26/11 attacks in the Taj, was not kept in lead with the NSG next day onwards during OP CYCLONE. Is is some turf or protocol issue......?


If you are referring to Operation Black Tornado, you can still find BRF archives that has a lot of articles and even some still active picture links from that time.

viewtopic.php?p=575263

At around 10:30-11:00pm on 26/11 the only team that was highly trained/well equipped and most importantly-ready to deploy were the Marcos. As others have mentioned it was a very small force (some reports say 18 others as high as 40 men in three prahaar groups). This was the best of the best that Admiral Cheema had at his disposal (between 11pm-midnight), he sent everyone who fit the bill. The "why so few" question was supposed to answered by a recent book from an Indian defense journalist, not sure when it will be released.

All reports and pics point to some sort of joint ops (they did share a lot of intel with the NSG when they reached Mumbai). Its not their place to lead a civilian engagement and that is why NSG rightly took over. But at 11pm on 26/11 they were the right people at the right time.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rahul M » 28 Nov 2013 00:55

:eek: did the sun rise today ? good to see you after a long time GJ.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 03 Dec 2013 18:10

Karan M wrote:From FB, FWIW
according to all para sf battelions and marcos teams inducted with para sf,on joint ops...operating the m4a1 and the tar21(standrd issue),
the m4a1 is facing reliability problems.the piston spring and the feed valve jams after constant fire,often leading to field striping.a soldier frm the marcos, said to me,tht during acclamatization using the m4 compromises time and mobility,infact they are putting a big question to a soldier's confidence.jamming is very often,and field striping the m4 is aweful.
usa dumping junk in india,with a lame friendly face!!!!!

admin


From DFI, received by mail by a member there, FWIW:

US gov supplying all garbage with a lame friendly tag over FMS ..

M4 supplied by Colt proving utter garbage, Continual firing causing jamming and to make a field repair it had to be striped in firefight ..

Not my words but PARA officers ..

Karan M
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 03 Dec 2013 18:11

Apparently, buying stuff quick via FMS is no panacea.

Thing to keep in mind regarding the Stinger offer as well.

vishvak
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby vishvak » 03 Dec 2013 19:45

It's certainly no panacea when SF battalions are armed with junk. Especially para or Marco troops.


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