Discussion on Indian Special Forces

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 02 Oct 2019 10:14

https://theprint.in/defence/new-tri-ser ... fbclid=IwA
New tri services special ops division, meant for surgical strikes, finishes 1st exercise today

The week-long exercise in Gujarat saw personnel of the Army, Navy commando unit and Air Force’s Garud test drills of the division.
excerpts
The new division will be capable of carrying out crippling attacks against enemy targets miles away, even inside enemy territory. It will have about 2,000 commandos drawn from the Special Forces of the Army, Marine Commando unit (MARCOS) of the Navy and Garud of the Air Force.
An accomplished special forces operative and Sri Lanka war veteran Major General A.K. Dhingra heads the tri-services division. He is from the elite 1 Para Special Forces Regiment.

strenght
While the Army has a strength of around 6,000 special forces personnel, both Navy and the IAF have around 1,000 each.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 02 Oct 2019 10:28

So a Unit or a "Task Force" announced a year ago is already conducting Joint Exercises?

So does this confirm that there is no selection / training regime for this unit?

IMO Missed opportunity

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 07 Oct 2019 11:06

https://www.news18.com/news/india/elite ... 35661.html

Elite Commandos Airdropped in Kashmir’s Ganderbal Forests After Militants Sighted on Trek Route to Srinagar
excerpts
The massive military operation to locate ‘hiding militants’ has been underway since the last ten days.

and

The Paras have spread across the mountainous terrain fearing that there might a big group of militants, who have infiltrated LoC from remote Gurez area of Bandipora district and are trying to move towards the Tral town in south Kashmir on this traditional militant-route.

“Two militants got killed in sequel operations after contact was established around 9pm on September 27,” Ganderbal SSP Khalil Poswal told News18, adding that this is first encounter in the district since 2014. One militant, he said, was killed on the same night and another was killed on the third day.

This is one of the biggest anti-militancy operation launched in the Kashmir Valley after the central government stripped Jammu and Kashmir of its special status and divided the state into two union

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 15 Oct 2019 20:08

https://zeenews.india.com/india/nationa ... 40283.html

NSG hub at Pathankot soon, 500 commandos to tackle terror threats
The Special Action Group of NSG also known as 51 SAG will be deployed in Pathankot. The hub will have a force of 500 NSG commandos who will be stationed permanently in Pathankot. The proposed Pathankot hub of NSG will be able to secure airbases, Army stations and other important assets in Punjab as well as respond much more quickly to tackle hostage like situations.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby MeshaVishwas » 18 Oct 2019 03:07

Special Forces hold wargames in Andamans against `intruders`
https://zeenews.india.com/india/special ... 9.html/amp
AFSOD seems to be shaping up well.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 18 Oct 2019 12:18

MeshaVishwas wrote:Special Forces hold wargames in Andamans against `intruders`
https://zeenews.india.com/india/special ... 9.html/amp
AFSOD seems to be shaping up well.


IMO a seriously missed opportunity. The powers that be are missing the forest for the Trees. How can a new unit that was ANNOUNCED a year back already be doing operational readiness exercises.

All they are doing is taking MARCOS/GARUD/SF and making them work together. We have serious holes in our SOF capability (training/ kit/ infrastructure) and tasking.

With SOD we have an opportunity from raising a unit from scratch but instead (i fear) we are just putting lipstick on a pig.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Nikhil T » 19 Oct 2019 06:28

Disagree. We don't want to keep adding manpower to Armed Forces and worsen our capital-to-revenue expenditure ratio. Converging existing units under one umbrella makes sense.

Coming to different training/kit/infrastructure, we don't *have to* task a mixed unit comprising all 3 services to conduct an operation. It could be very well be tasked to a unit comprised of one service, at least in the short term. Over time, training and kits will be unified as well. What's important is that a big step has been taken with AFSOD by GoI and the three services, who finally seem to be on the same page. I hope that AFSOD soon becomes a full Command.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby srai » 20 Oct 2019 07:42

wig wrote:https://zeenews.india.com/india/national-security-guard-nsg-hub-at-pathankot-soon-500-commandos-to-tackle-terror-threats-2240283.html

NSG hub at Pathankot soon, 500 commandos to tackle terror threats
The Special Action Group of NSG also known as 51 SAG will be deployed in Pathankot. The hub will have a force of 500 NSG commandos who will be stationed permanently in Pathankot. The proposed Pathankot hub of NSG will be able to secure airbases, Army stations and other important assets in Punjab as well as respond much more quickly to tackle hostage like situations.


After the 2008 Mumbai terror attacks, five hubs of NSG were established in Gandhinagar (Gujarat), Chennai (Tamil Nadu), Kolkata (West Bengal), Mumbai (Maharashtra) and Hyderabad (Telangana).

Out of the major Indian metro cities, Bengaluru still doesn’t have one.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby MeshaVishwas » 20 Oct 2019 09:04

srai wrote:Out of the major Indian metro cities, Bengaluru still doesn’t have one.

OT.But BLR have their own police unit dedicated to CT ops."Garuda" units were raised under the watchful eye of our current NSA, IIRC.
Trained by NSG and Ex Army, they also hold exercises with NSG periodically.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sajaym » 20 Oct 2019 10:15

srai wrote:Out of the major Indian metro cities, Bengaluru still doesn’t have one.

I read somewhere on this same thread that Bengaluru already has Para Commandos based here at the Para Training center. So Bengaluru is already a Para Commando Hub I guess.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Bala Vignesh » 20 Oct 2019 14:30

Yup, BLR has the PRTC which is the home of all Para SF Bn and will have adequate manpower to mount operations when required and also BLR is supposedly home to a Para SF Bn as well, not sure if that's true.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ParGha » 20 Oct 2019 16:39

PRTC is for basic recruit training and administrative elements, and it is in operational readiness of a peace establishment. They will pitch in if things go bad, but it is unrealistic to keep a peace posting under the constant stress of operational readiness - it is unfair to them and their families, who have definitely earned their 2 years of normalcy after 4 years of operational and field training postings. Given the terrible traffic conditions in Bangalore, it is probably better for Bangalore to rely upon a heliborne QRT from the new brigade being established in KA.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rohitvats » 21 Oct 2019 01:09

^^^NSG hub was not set-up in Bangalore because a Para (SF) battalion was located in the city. As for location, its not co-located with PRTC. The Military Farm, located adjacent and north of Hebbal lake, was closed down (as part of overall closing down of Military Farms establishment) and this became location of Para (SF) battalion. I'm surprised Bangalore people don't know this.

2 Para (SF) was the first occupant. And might still be there as SF battalions don't change their location. Teams are sent out to regions on deputation.

There was even an article on this:

http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/2014/01/the-predators-sf-rock-stars-share-their.html :|

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby tsarkar » 21 Oct 2019 01:44

rohitvats wrote:^^^NSG hub was not set-up in Bangalore because a Para (SF) battalion was located in the city. As for location, its not co-located with PRTC. The Military Farm, located adjacent and north of Hebbal lake, was closed down (as part of overall closing down of Military Farms establishment) and this became location of Para (SF) battalion. I'm surprised Bangalore people don't know this.

2 Para (SF) was the first occupant. And might still be there as SF battalions don't change their location. Teams are sent out to regions on deputation.

There was even an article on this:

http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/2014/01/the-predators-sf-rock-stars-share-their.html :|

Not happy with 2 Para given a SWAT/NSG role. They’re the only battalion to have participated in an airborne para drop and battle at Tangail in 1971. The Marathas Paras could have certainly been better used.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Bala Vignesh » 21 Oct 2019 15:12

Well, I was aware but was told by my paanwala not to share the exact location. Hence the obfuscation, if you could call it that. Didn't know the information was public domain already.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 24 Nov 2019 23:34

https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... ons/519009

In a first, Army, Navy and Air Force special forces deployed in Kashmir for joint counter-terrorism operations

extracts

In a major step towards enhancing joint collaboration among the three services, the special forces of the Army, Navy and Air Force have been deployed in the Kashmir Valley to carry out joint counter-terrorism operations.

The Army's Para (special forces), Navy's Marine Commandos (MARCOS) and Indian Air Force's Garud special forces are being deployed in the Kashmir Valley under the Defence Ministry's newly-raised Armed Forces Special Operations Division (AFSOD).


Induction of the joint special troops of the three forces has already started as the Army Para (SF) elements have already been inducted into an area considered to be a traditional terror hotbed near Srinagar, an Army official told news agency ANI.

As per reports, the elements of the MARCOS and the Garud would soon be getting fully inducted into the anti-terrorist operations.

Earlier, small teams of Navy's MARCOS and IAF's Garud used to operate in the Kashmir Valley, however, with this development, this will be the first time when the three services would be deployed jointly in the Valley.

While MARCOS commandos have been deployed in and around the Wular lake area, the Garud teams have been operating in the Lolab area and Hajin.

and
The main reason behind this decision to deploy joint Special Forces in the Kashmir valley is to give them the exposure to operating jointly in real operations. The AFSPD has already carried out two exercises at different locations by practising assault on strategic enemy positions and taking back captured areas.

The first exercise of the AFSOD was in the Kutch region codenamed 'Ex Smelling Field' while the second was in Andaman and Nicobar Islands codenamed 'DANX-2019'.

Major General Ashok Dhingra has been appointed as the first head of the Armed Forces Special Operations Division (AFSOD).

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Zynda » 07 Dec 2019 21:56

Does anybody what Special Forces of other countries do to protect against snake bites while wading through waters in marshlands etc? Any special kind of protective trousers etc?

This info may be a little outdated but apparently in desh, (dunno which unit or even times lines and all those details), they used to fill up their trousers with wet mud and tape their pants just above the ankle. Yes, this would add lot of weight penalty but they found it effective against snake bites. Snake bites do happen but the fangs rarely are able to reach the skin. Probably this was during training and stuff & may not be during missions but I am not 100% sure.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ArjunPandit » 08 Dec 2019 18:50

what could be the reason for utilizing SF on CT operations is it to widen their scope, utilize the existing resources to the max in light of fiscal prudence or give them some battlefield experience before actual action..

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby darshhan » 08 Dec 2019 22:15

Zynda wrote:Does anybody what Special Forces of other countries do to protect against snake bites while wading through waters in marshlands etc? Any special kind of protective trousers etc?

This info may be a little outdated but apparently in desh, (dunno which unit or even times lines and all those details), they used to fill up their trousers with wet mud and tape their pants just above the ankle. Yes, this would add lot of weight penalty but they found it effective against snake bites. Snake bites do happen but the fangs rarely are able to reach the skin. Probably this was during training and stuff & may not be during missions but I am not 100% sure.


Every Special forces squad worth its salt has a medic. These medics are highly trained almost to surgeon levels. I am very sure for jungle warfare and marshland missions these medics would definitely be factoring snake bite injuries.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby CalvinH » 09 Dec 2019 02:23

ArjunPandit wrote:what could be the reason for utilizing SF on CT operations is it to widen their scope, utilize the existing resources to the max in light of fiscal prudence or give them some battlefield experience before actual action..


I guess it would be for the similar reason why US SF operators are embedded with regular units in AFG or Iraq where US Army is in holding position. Tracking high ranking terrorists, intelligence gathering etc. Don the gear and be part of the operation that one initiated and supplied the information for?

We see SF resources in pics taken during regular operations and mistakenly think that they are being used as common infantry soldiers . Many similar pics exist for US operations in Iraq.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Thakur_B » 13 Jan 2020 06:17

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/govt-d ... 213401.cms

NSG to be withdrawn from VIP protection duty.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby hnair » 13 Jan 2020 13:25

Zynda wrote:Does anybody what Special Forces of other countries do to protect against snake bites while wading through waters in marshlands etc? Any special kind of protective trousers etc?

This info may be a little outdated but apparently in desh, (dunno which unit or even times lines and all those details), they used to fill up their trousers with wet mud and tape their pants just above the ankle. Yes, this would add lot of weight penalty but they found it effective against snake bites. Snake bites do happen but the fangs rarely are able to reach the skin. Probably this was during training and stuff & may not be during missions but I am not 100% sure.


Zynda, considering the amount of aggressive vipers I once encountered at a short after-dark visit to a tea-estate here in a western ghat foothill part of Trivandrum district, I too had this question a while back to local snake experts as well as to a friend (ex-yahoodi chap). Also asked thislocal celebrity, but humble gent, who advises newbie forest guard trainees. Some of the tactics I hear are:

1) More than during movement, when snakes can sense vibrations and vamoose, the danger is most for static places like watchposts, guard posts, trenches etc where snakes love to crawl in during hostile times of day or night, they use chemical sprays. The easiest one is kerosene: take a plastic bottle, fill it half with water and other half with kerosene, shake it hard until it bubbles and emulsifies, then make tiny hole in the lid and use the hole to draw a Lakshmana-rekha around your post, by squeezing out the kerosene. It apparently repels snakes, who hate the smell when their tongue touches the kerosene. Without rains, it lasts for four weeks. But rains wash it off and in rainy seasons and in that condition would need frequent application. Still considered the cheapest solution by a wide range of operatives from sarasawa trainees to housewives wanting to keep cobras looking for mice among groceries!

2) Yahoodis have some electronic ultrasound device that they claim does its job of repelling snakes. My query about how far ground can carry vibrations in a sandy desert, since snakes need that to be repelled, has been left unanswered. So I suspect theirs are useful for only snakes in their area of ops, mostly desert (where snakes apparently love A/C-ed guard posts during day time temperatures)

3) Some modern clothing claims anti-fang properties against dog bites from penetrating, so would come handy for snake fangs too. But in general, the high-ankle boots (most of bites will be at ground level, when a soldier steps on a pissed off viper or some krait) helps keep the fangs out. But if a snake is on a tree and you accidentally smack it, then not much can help.

4) Not medically qualified one, so these are all hearsay: most SF teams carry high-quality snake bite kits with broad-spectrum anti-venom for that particular area of operations (eg: regional venom specific for cyto-toxin for mamba, neuro-toxin for cobra/krait, hemo-toxin for viper etc) and can instantly administer that to a victim. The regional specific anti-venom is important, because in some cases, imported venoms would not work, due to local breeds having developed specialized venom protiens for their prey over centuries. But recovery is painful and slow even in a hospital, so on the field, it can result in a mission kill. So they try to avoid snakes by repellents and "being careful about where they step"

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Thakur_B » 13 Jan 2020 14:16

hnair wrote:
2) Yahoodis have some electronic ultrasound device that they claim does its job of repelling snakes. My query about how far ground can carry vibrations in a sandy desert, since snakes need that to be repelled, has been left unanswered. So I suspect theirs are useful for only snakes in their area of ops, mostly desert (where snakes apparently love A/C-ed guard posts during day time temperatures)



Nothing yahudi djinn tech about it. It's a commonly available rodent repellent system used for data centers and sensitive electronic installation. Rs. 20-30k for a small house sized installation. Nearly maintenance free. A few transducers at floor level and a few a ceiling level do the job.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Thakur_B » 14 Jan 2020 09:40

https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation ... ssion=true

NSG has started to induct local breed of canines, Mudhol Hounds.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby hnair » 14 Jan 2020 11:21

Thakur_B wrote:
hnair wrote:
2) Yahoodis have some electronic ultrasound device that they claim does its job of repelling snakes. My query about how far ground can carry vibrations in a sandy desert, since snakes need that to be repelled, has been left unanswered. So I suspect theirs are useful for only snakes in their area of ops, mostly desert (where snakes apparently love A/C-ed guard posts during day time temperatures)



Nothing yahudi djinn tech about it. It's a commonly available rodent repellent system used for data centers and sensitive electronic installation. Rs. 20-30k for a small house sized installation. Nearly maintenance free. A few transducers at floor level and a few a ceiling level do the job.


:lol: I hear you - yahoodis do have this habit of steep markups, based on claims of djinntech. This is apparently something different and I am not sure how it behaves in sand, which is not good for propagating sound. Am interested to know about the commonly available one you mentioned, because the rodent repellent systems using this ultrasound-djinn-takknikki has been given thumbs down by multiple godown contractors I once checked on (I had an issue with a house that seem popular with rodents), saying it is a diminishing returns, with the rodents adapting to the wavelength and learning to ignore. But OT for SF thread.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 17 Jan 2020 11:19

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 308189.cms

Indian Army conducts biggest airborne exercise ‘Winged Raider’ with over 500 Special Forces troops
The multidimensional exercise was preceded by a series of intense preparation involving the movement of special forces and rallying up of transport aircraft of the Indian Air Force starting from January 6, the Army said in a statement.
extracts
The exercise conducted on January 10 had over 500 soldiers of the Special Forces parachuting from C-130 Hercules and C-17 globemaster transport aircraft of the Indian Air Force, besides Dhruv helicopters during the day and night. The exercise was preceded by a series of intense preparations involving movement of special forces and rallying up of transport aircraft of the Indian Air Force starting from January 6.
“The newly inducted aerial platforms and equipment were validated with clockwork precision and seamless integration between the Indian Army and Indian Air Force in difficult terrain. Exercise Winged Raider demonstrated the operational readiness of our Paratroopers and Air Warriors to undertake airborne missions,” the army said in a statement on Thursday.
The exercise was telecast live to all field formation headquarters in the theatre.
Previously in October last year, the army carried out Exercise ‘Him Vijay’ to test its new war-fighting concept of Integrated Battle Groups (IBG) in mountain warfare under the 17 Corps in Arunachal Pradesh. An IBG, which has a varying mix of infantry, tanks, artillery, air defence, signals and logistics, is part of the army’s plan to restructure itself to meet emerging challenges. Army Chief General Manoj Mukund Naravane had earlier said that the initial report of Him Vijay was “encouraging,'' adding that a lesson learnt was the need for better communications.
The exercises indicate the shift in the army’s focus towards the frontier with China. While explaining the army’s strategy for India’s border with China, Naravane had said that the force is going for capacity building, which includes building roads to forward areas, habitats, storage for ammunition and moving some of our advanced weapons system to eastern side. He added that the army “rebalancing” its deployments and resources on the western and northern fronts.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sum » 06 Apr 2020 05:44

3 SF killed in gunbattle
What happened here?
We lost 5 men( incl 3 SF) in this encounter

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sidp » 06 Apr 2020 07:07

sum wrote:3 SF killed in gunbattle
What happened here?
We lost 5 men( incl 3 SF) in this encounter

bababanaras is saying we lost one surveillance drone too. Must be something big is going on.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby pushkar.bhat » 06 Apr 2020 10:44

I heard its 1 boy from 4 PARA and 4 from 8 JAT. Let's wait for an official release.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya_V » 06 Apr 2020 11:58

I hope we play realpolitics here, Hope we recover SSG bodies and tell Pakis they will be burned and messages sent to rest of SSG through social media. That will be chilling in the morale, unless Pakis public ally accept the bodies like Kargil. We can get a fault line here. And we got an officer body , lets try and get them to admit the F16 and the pilot.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ArjunPandit » 06 Apr 2020 14:40

https://www.defencexp.com/view-blog.php?cid=351

5 para SF martyred in the anti infiltration ops along LC om shanti...

The 5 men have been identified as
Subedar Sanjeev Kumar From Himachal Pradesh
Havildar Davendra Singh from Uttarakhand
Paratrooper Bal Krishan from Himachal Pradesh
Paratrooper Amit Kumar from Uttarakhand
Paratrooper Chhatrapal Singh from Rajasthan.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Nihat » 06 Apr 2020 21:44

5 para commandos killed by terrorists. This is unbelievable and surely the cost imposed will be steep.

Such heavy losses to elite para are a huge failure on our part.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Zynda » 06 Apr 2020 21:53

Yes, loss of 5 elite soldiers is quite a significant loss for us, but please do read the circumstances of the loss. Paras were chasing 5 tangos (who were apparently trained by TSP SSG folks and were carrying AK-47s) when they 3 of the operators stepped on snow covering which then collapsed bringing down all 5 of Paras in to place where the 5 tangos were hiding. Immediately the situation escalated in to CQB but our boys were able to get their bearings fast and eliminated all 5 tangos while paying a high price. The loss of 5 Paras incident was due to an unfortunate accident...of course, lessons will be learnt but at least on this incident, I would not go afar as blaming army for any kind of failure.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rakesh » 06 Apr 2020 22:10

https://twitter.com/VishnuNDTV/status/1 ... 05249?s=20 ---> Image of the squad of Special Forces Commandos deploying on what turned out to be their final mission. They eliminated 5 terrorists but will never return home.

https://twitter.com/VishnuNDTV/status/1 ... 05249?s=20 ---> Look at how deep the snow is...

https://twitter.com/KSingh84856557/stat ... 98018?s=20 ---> Look at what they are wading into- waist deep snow, minus 20 temperatures against a monstrous enemy. India is privileged to have such brave souls.

Image

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rakesh » 06 Apr 2020 22:12

As India Fights Covid 19, 5 Special Forces Men Die Fighting Terrorists
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2020/04 ... rists.html
06 April 2020

In the words of an officer familiar with details, “As luck would have it, where they fell, the militants were sitting right there. This led to a firefight at virtually point blank range. I have to give it to the training standards of the SF guys. Inspite of the fall, all five terrorists were killed. The complete squad was lost.”

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/124 ... 27170?s=20 ----> Their bodies were found two meters away from the terrorist infiltrators they killed. Our report (above) on the fearsome close-quarter encounter in which the Indian Army has lost 5 Special Forces men from the elite 4 Para.

Image

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby manjgu » 06 Apr 2020 22:14

can see the fence buried in snow ... the top of fence is visible ..indicating the amount of snow

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby manjgu » 06 Apr 2020 22:15

nihat..easy to pontificate for arm chair warriors !!

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rakesh » 06 Apr 2020 22:22

Video in link below....

https://twitter.com/VishnuNDTV/status/1 ... 67392?s=20 ---> General location where the Kupwara encounter took place and images of terrorist rations.

Image

Image

Image

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Bart S » 06 Apr 2020 23:05

Would increased availability of armed drones, and LCHs help reduce the risk here?

Pakistanis are truly demented if they are trying to pull this off while the country, and the world is in the midst of a fight against COVID. Hope our politicians authorize the forces to make them pay a severe price for this.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby pushkar.bhat » 06 Apr 2020 23:43

No Drones will not necessarily solve the problem. All I can say is that the loss was very unfortunate.


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