Discussion on Indian Special Forces

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Thakur_B
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Thakur_B »

https://medium.com/the-national-identit ... 31c721bedf

^^ good article on what ails the SF in India.
jamwal
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by jamwal »

jamwal wrote:Israeli Tavors and Negevs being replaced already? What is going on and what units are these?

Moderator Note: Please do not post images without providing the source and link.
Admiral saab, I usually don't post link when posting from my own twitter account.
Most of the twitter accounts you post from here never have their own copyrighted images either. They just copy it from wherever. The copyright belongs to original photographer or artist or organisation which is usually visible via watermark.
Rakesh
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Rakesh »

jamwal wrote:
jamwal wrote:Israeli Tavors and Negevs being replaced already? What is going on and what units are these?

Moderator Note: Please do not post images without providing the source and link.
Admiral saab, I usually don't post link when posting from my own twitter account.
Most of the twitter accounts you post from here never have their own copyrighted images either. They just copy it from wherever. The copyright belongs to original photographer or artist or organisation which is usually visible via watermark.
I understand that jamwal, just please post the url from where the picture comes. All it takes is one over zealous individual and the entire forum can get shut down. Just paste the link and that should alleviate much of the problem.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/Sandeep_Mave/status ... 99328?s=20 ---> 4 Para SF - Ghosts of the mountains.

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Thakur_B
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Thakur_B »

Cross posting from CAPF thread. Technically not a special force but considered equivalent to one.



First look into the training and tactics of SPG in public domain.
wig
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by wig »

https://www.republicworld.com/india-new ... eshow.html

Indian Army-IAF Carry Out Aerial Insertion, Water Parachute Jumps Exercise In Himachal
excerpted
The special forces of the Indian Army and Air Force jointly validated the aerial insertion and deployment of special forces operatives through water parachute jumps as a part of an ongoing two-day exercise in Himachal Pradesh (HP). In an exercise which is currently underway at Gobind Sagar Reservoir in HP, the joint forces practised aerial insertion and the capability to land on water for rapid response in hostile territory. Furthermore, the joint operation has fine-tuned the specific drills and procedures to enhance their skills in various conflict scenarios and terrains.
there is a video linked to the article which can be viewed
Rakesh
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/elitepredatorss/sta ... fGI1wFjBmw ---> 9 Para SF is celebrating its raising day today. May the legacy remains legendary till eternity, it's an absolute honor and a life achievement to even know you lads !!

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KSingh
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by KSingh »

The Indian army has effectively killed their entire SF capability this year with the move to convert all airborne battalions to SF

https://twitter.com/suryacommand/status ... oglFgnQbcQ

They are not at most a VDV type light airborne infantry but special in name only


This move also makes AFSOD redundant and INSOCOM dead on arrival.


Indian SFs always struggled to have a clear mandate and be used appropriately by their conventional commands, well this is the final nail in India’s SF and there will now only be a slow but continuous decline in standards and capabilities as there was when the SF battalions were expanded the last time around. Now everyone is a SF guy so no one is special anymore.


And these guys are India’s equivalent to the SAS and Green berets? What a joke.
Thakur_B
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Thakur_B »

Couple that with poor state of equipment. While MARCOS and Garud have seen gradual improvement in equipment, ParaSF equipment has been in a state of rot. Comparison of NSG and SPG equipment and facilities to Para SF has never been so stark.

Para SF lacks
Bi/Quad Nods
Plate carriers
Modern suppressed rifles (handful of Tavors and M4 don't count), most are still doing with pimped up AKs
Modern handguns, hi power still rules the roost, PX4 and Jericho are available in limited numbers.
Comtacs
MOLLE type bags
SDRs

What we have abundance of is
- Our Bois are the besht
- Amriki SF carry bottled water, our Bois don't need that because they are the toughest
- A gun is a gun, I pull the trigger, it should fire
ks_sachin
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by ks_sachin »

And this is the leadership that is supposed to have thought through Agnipath?
Cyrano
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Cyrano »

Err... NSG/SPG and ParaSF have very different missions and will need different equipment, no? ParaSF is trained for heli/Transport a/c drop operations in possibly hostile territory on land or even in water, with tenuous logistical support. As a lay man, I'd think they would prefer to be quipped as "light" as possible with reliable tried and tested kit as demanded by mission profile and stuff they can abandon if extraction is difficult.

I'm wondering why we have teeter level rona dhona on BRF ?! and gratuitously dissing Agnipath au passage !!

Come one guys, do better, deeper analysis than just whining like amreeki gear fan boys if you have a serious point to make.
ks_sachin
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by ks_sachin »

Cyrano,

The ills of our SF structure have been discussed here before and there are umpteen articles about this.

Point of comparison with NSG et all by Thakur_B is that para sf as is not being equipped as it should for their role. We r not comparing roles. The things Thakur_B has mentioned are basics of SF ops.

What is our SF doctrine? Why do we use SF routine CI ops apart from keeping them hardened?

If every airborne Bn becomes an SF bn what is special about them? If all Are SF bns then are we saying we don’t need regular airborne infantry? That is a pretty strong call.

I am questioning it because knowing how this tends to work worked and how for example the Guards became mechanised I reserve my judgement on these things including Agnipath.
KSingh
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by KSingh »

Thakur_B wrote:Couple that with poor state of equipment. While MARCOS and Garud have seen gradual improvement in equipment, ParaSF equipment has been in a state of rot. Comparison of NSG and SPG equipment and facilities to Para SF has never been so stark.

Para SF lacks
Bi/Quad Nods
Plate carriers
Modern suppressed rifles (handful of Tavors and M4 don't count), most are still doing with pimped up AKs
Modern handguns, hi power still rules the roost, PX4 and Jericho are available in limited numbers.
Comtacs
MOLLE type bags
SDRs

What we have abundance of is
- Our Bois are the besht
- Amriki SF carry bottled water, our Bois don't need that because they are the toughest
- A gun is a gun, I pull the trigger, it should fire
I used to think this way (focusing on equipment and what they lack) but I realised that’s putting the cart before the horse. The lack of equipment and training is the symptom- no one in any form of leadership understands SFs or gives them importance hence why they are in their sorry state. They are treated as just another version of an infantry battalion and are thus equipped (or not) accordingly in line with incremental improvements to other infantry units.

Anyway IA has effectively ended their experiment with SFs with this monumental expansion of their ‘SF’ strength and left itself with a division of light airborne troops
S_Madhukar
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by S_Madhukar »

It is such a Chicken and egg problem . SF used as special infantry used as special police used as god knows what may be hafta vasuli. It seems like our institutions have no memory and just look at things as they are. No precedent obvious and open at least of using SF for that lethal strike mission hence they are slowly gnawing away at that institution. Looks like we do only CI till we become 10T economy or 2047
ParGha
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by ParGha »

ks_sachin wrote:And this is the leadership that is supposed to have thought through Agnipath?
Proposals for a shorter color service army has been around for at least four decades. Here is Lt. General Harbaksh Singh -- GOC-in-C of Western Command during the 1965 Indo-Pakistan War, and a veteran of World War 2 and the First Kashmir War -- writing in the 1980s:

In the Line of Duty -- Google Books Link
Most modern Armies in the Western world, so far as the rank-and-file are concerned, are short-service Armies, with only one-and-a-half to two-years colour service. However, taking the illiteracy and semi-literacy factor into consideration, there is no reason why, with simpler weapons and equipment, we should not be able to reduce the period of our sepoys to 3 to 4 years for the Infantry and 4 to 5 years for the mechanical and technical arms such as Signals, Engineers and Electrical and Mechanical Engineers.
Not sure about the current leadership's thought process on the Agnipath scheme; some of the communications has been convoluted, and they cannot talk about certain politically sensitive topics (like the Indo-Tibetan border crisis, internal security incidents, etc.) in public. But the core idea has been around for quite some time, and it is quite sensible.
ks_sachin
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by ks_sachin »

ParGha,

I have no issue with the Agniveer scheme conceptually and it’s goals.

I hope it pans out better than Gen Vaidya’s mixed batallions.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/Sandeep_Mave/status ... LcC0LHyhqw ---> Indian Navy Marine Commandos and newly inducted Naval ALH Mk-III in the Andaman and Nicobar.

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wig
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by wig »

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/in ... ce08d7717c

Indo-Pak 1965 War: Alert, streamlined intelligence organisation required, said Lt Gen Harbakhsh Singh
excerpted
Major Megh Singh had a checkered patchy career. During his tenure as Second in Command of 3 Guards some of his decisions came under a cloud. There was a disciplinary case made against him, as a result he was denied the promotion to Lieut Colonel. As the war broke out, the Major was marking his time serving as the General Staff Officer Grade Two (Training) at the Western Army Headquarters. He even applied for release from the Army which the Lt General recommended.

When hostilities broke out in J&K, the soldier in Major Megh Singh could no longer sit silent. He sought an interview with Lt Gen Harbakhsh Singh. He cited his experience in clandestine operations in Burma in the last World War, volunteered for service in the operational area of J&K at the head of a Special Group.

The Lt General appreciated his motive and promised that if he did well in J&K, he would be the one to pin a Lieut Colonel’s rank on his shoulders. Sure enough Major Megh Singh gathered around him a batch of young and hardy men from 3 Rajputana Rifles and 3 Rajput. After a short and intensive training schedule, he declared himself ready to operation ‘in the gut of the enemy’. So on 1st September 1965 was born the Meghdoot Force.

‘War Despatches’ singles out the following actions of the Meghdoot Group for mention:

An important culvert on the road Dwarandi-Bandigopalpur was blown up …the target was seven miles deep in enemy territory.

Two enemy picquets (Neza Pir NR2182 and Ari Dhok NR2183) were captured as complementary action to the main attack on Raja and Chand picquets.

The force went out to destroy an ammunition dump at Kahuta but found it empty; Major Megh Singh switched his troops to assist 3 Dogra who were in difficulty and through an audacious manoeuvre, the Meghdoot Force compelled the enemy to abandon the strategically important Kahuta bridge. In the fitness of things, Major Megh Singh was accorded the honour of establishing the link up with 68 Infantry Brigade south of Hajipir.

The Meghdoot Force proved that great success can be achieved by trained and resolute troops behind the enemy lines. Major Megh Singh had made a most creditable contribution towards the organization and training of this Force and his subsequent leadership in various missions was most inspiring. “For this he was very deservedly awarded the Vir Chakra. To fulfill my promise, on 16th September, I was happy to pin the Lieut Colonel’s rank on his shoulders in the presence of his Corps Commander,” wrote Lt Gen Harbakhsh Singh.
wig
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by wig »

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/i ... 2023-04-05

Indian Navy’s marine commando dies during para jump training
excerpted
A marine commando from the Indian Navy’s special forces died during a training exercise on Wednesday in West Bengal’s Panagarh.

People familiar with the matter said Chandaka Govind died while carrying out a para jump from an aircraft.
Manish_P
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Manish_P »

Sad to hear. May his family get strength to bear his loss.

Om Shanti
Prem Kumar
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Prem Kumar »

Sad loss. Om Shanthi
wig
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by wig »

https://www.aninews.in/news/national/ge ... 503192610/

Tri services Special Ops Division sets up headquarters in Bengaluru

excerpts
"The Armed Forces Special Operations Division was set up in Agra in its early days under the Integrated Defence Staff and has now shifted to Bengaluru," defence officials said here. The AFSOD is now under the Department of Military Affairs and includes the officers and men from the Army Parachute Regiment, Marine Commandos from the Navy and Garud commandos from the Indian Air Force.
"Bengaluru is also well suited for operations for a force like the AFSOD as there are multiple airstrips near their location," the officials said.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by wig »

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/tw ... a231&ei=12

Two from Indian Army’s special forces killed in Rajouri, more casualties feared
extracted
At least two soldiers of the Indian Army’s elite 9 Para SF were killed in a face-off with terrorists in the thick jungles of Bhata Dhurian in Rajouri sector, with casualties likely to rise further
Rajouri, J&K
it said that on specific information about the presence of terrorists in the Kandi Forest in Rajouri sector, a joint operation was launched on 3 May 2023.

At about 7.30am on 5 May, a search team established contact with a group of terrorists well entrenched in a cave. The area is thickly vegetated with rocky and steep cliffs.

The terrorists triggered an explosive device in retaliation, the army said.
AkshaySG
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by AkshaySG »

Death Toll at 5 now.

https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/16 ... 2xG1Q&s=19

It's the highest loss of SF men in a single action afaik along with the action at Randori Behak a few years ago
S_Madhukar
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by S_Madhukar »

We should immediately strike on the Bakis and keep mum at the SCO… this was always on the cards with that piglet in town
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by sajaym »

Upon hearing the distress call, an MH-47 Chinook helicopter was dispatched with a force consisting of SEALs and 160th SOAR Nightstalkers to rescue the team, but the helicopter was shot down by an RPG. All 16 men on board the Chinook were killed. The battle was later called "the worst single day loss of life for Naval Special Warfare personnel since World War II." In interviews Ahmad Shah maintained that his forces had set a trap for the American forces: "We certainly know that when the American army comes under pressure and they get hit, they will try to help their friends. It is the law of the battlefield."[
Basically... if the enemy knows when, where and how you're coming, then you're going to get hammered regardless of whether you're the para sf, navy seals or jedi warriors.

But i would like to repeat the same requirement which many have made on this forum before...we need a gunship like the AC-130 to support the sf in operations like this.
wig
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by wig »

Navy commando dies after parachute got entangled in powerlines during training
https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/na ... c224&ei=14


extracted
According to Malpura Police Station officials, Ankur Sharma, who was posted in Jammu and Kashmir, was receiving paratrooping training at the Airborne Training School of Agra's Malpura dropping zone. As part of his training, he jumped from an aircraft using a parachute on Friday morning, but in the final seconds of the leap, he presumably failed to spot the extremely high-voltage powerlines. His parachute got entangled in the powerlines.
Farmers working in the fields saw the paratrooper getting entangled in the powerlines, and immediately notified the authorities, sources claimed. While trying to disentangle himself, Sharma fell from a considerable height and got injured.

Sources claimed that the officials rushed to the spot, and the commando was then transferred to the military hospital for treatment. Ankur Sharma succumbed to his injuries in the hospital.
Manish_P
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Manish_P »

Terrible.

Looks like a freak incidence. Presumably there have been training drops in the area in the past?

May god give strength to his family to bear his irreplaceable loss.

Om Shanti
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by MeshaVishwas »

CalvinH
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by CalvinH »

sajaym wrote:
Upon hearing the distress call, an MH-47 Chinook helicopter was dispatched with a force consisting of SEALs and 160th SOAR Nightstalkers to rescue the team, but the helicopter was shot down by an RPG. All 16 men on board the Chinook were killed. The battle was later called "the worst single day loss of life for Naval Special Warfare personnel since World War II." In interviews Ahmad Shah maintained that his forces had set a trap for the American forces: "We certainly know that when the American army comes under pressure and they get hit, they will try to help their friends. It is the law of the battlefield."[
Basically... if the enemy knows when, where and how you're coming, then you're going to get hammered regardless of whether you're the para sf, navy seals or jedi warriors.

But i would like to repeat the same requirement which many have made on this forum before...we need a gunship like the AC-130 to support the sf in operations like this.
Ahmad shah's note is a typical bluster post success. In that specific operations Chinooks showed up unescorted by Apache Gunships. This is SOP but that day Apache Gunships were not available. Plus it was one lucky shot. Chinooks must have done hundreds of landing in Afg. Show us other incident where a Chinook was taken down by an RPG.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Shameek »

NSG and MARCOS deployed in Kashmir.

ramana
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by ramana »

Thanks for that clip.
MeshaVishwas
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by MeshaVishwas »

#India #JammuAndKashmir: PAFF insurgents captured at least two Tavor TAR-21 rifles from Indian 9 Para SF earlier this month in the forests of Rajouri. Note ITL MARS optic.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Rakesh »

https://x.com/KalashnikovOpe1/status/17 ... 74617?s=20 ---> 2 Vikas SFF.

High Altitude/Alpine Warfare specialists.

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Rakesh
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Rakesh »

Twitter thread on HAWS (High Altitude Warfare School).

https://x.com/Arbaletintel/status/17260 ... 65084?s=20
ashthor
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by ashthor »

Rakesh wrote: 03 Nov 2023 03:00 https://x.com/KalashnikovOpe1/status/17 ... 74617?s=20 ---> 2 Vikas SFF.

High Altitude/Alpine Warfare specialists.
Looks like the great lakes area in kashmir
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by sanman »

SECRET INTELLIGENCE DOCUMENTS SHOW GLOBAL REACH OF INDIA’S DEATH SQUADS
Leaked Pakistani intelligence backs up Canada’s claim of an Indian assassination program.

https://theintercept.com/2023/11/21/ind ... -pakistan/
Atmavik
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Atmavik »

sanman wrote: 24 Nov 2023 03:52 SECRET INTELLIGENCE DOCUMENTS SHOW GLOBAL REACH OF INDIA’S DEATH SQUADS
Leaked Pakistani intelligence backs up Canada’s claim of an Indian assassination program.

https://theintercept.com/2023/11/21/ind ... -pakistan/
Last edited by Atmavik on 24 Nov 2023 06:30, edited 1 time in total.
sanman
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by sanman »

Atmavik wrote: 24 Nov 2023 04:29 We have been working on it for the past 10 yrs without success. Forces make better the enemy of best , drdo wants to be the first to do something and as usual gov has no money . Our brave hearts pay in blood
Forgive me, I couldn't understand the meaning of your reply
Atmavik
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Atmavik »

^^ sorry, I thought I was replying to a post abt armed drones doing CI. Mobile messed me up
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