Discussion on Indian Special Forces

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kaangeya
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by kaangeya »

Rohitvats,

I don't see what the problem is in having Para and Para(SF) Batln in the same regiment. As all of us know the days of mass para drops are unlikely to ever return. Today paradrops is a specific skill to be used in a few different situations and not for mass infiltration behind enemy lines as in days of large scale battle of maneuver. Whatever makes you think that the Para Regiment leadership does not have the ear of the AHQ? In modern offensive practice SF are meant to strike deep and provide a surprise lever or breakthroughs. The IA SF has fulfilled this role with distinction. CQB methods were overhauled post-Blue Star and Pawan and are now robust. As far as weapons are concerned they have access to every possible make and type they need.

The 1965 TSP SSG fiasco showed the potential for what? How new wass the idea then about 25 years old having been already tried out so many times during WW2? And how well planned was that? Who planned, led and directed that caper? TSPA's finest? Same for Siachen when Brig.Mushrat took personal charge of an SSG group and lost commaniding positions. And what the heck is the TSPA SSG doing on the Afghan frontier these days?

Raja Bose,
Check out the link I posted to a report on NPR yesterday. The Mumbai attack has made every urban security entity sit up and take notice. Even the NYPD that has a hot standby HR/QRT isn't smirking or delivering "I told you so." As to the wiseacres and chairborne keyboad commandos everywhere (Somini Sengupta included) who are asking why it took so long, I would direct them to the local pages of any American newspaper. Every week there is a report of at least one standoff of some crazy armed man. As of this morning, the former chief of Ravenna PD, Ohio, has been holding off the county Sheriff's team for >36 hours, armed and threatening to kill his family for some craszy reason.
http://www.wtte28.com/template/inews_w ... .com.shtml


Standoff with ex-police chief in Ohio in 2nd day
December 04, 2008 07:05 EST

RAVENNA, Ohio (AP) -- Authorities are keeping floodlights blazing on the northeast Ohio home of a former police chief on the second morning of standoff.
Sharpshooters and other officers continued their long wait Thursday...He's accused of firing a gun at his adult son Tuesday night; deputies have an arrest warrant for felonious assault.
Swartout told deputies there will be a conflict if they try to enter the four-story farmhouse, which had its power cut off by authorities on Wednesday.
Portage County Sheriff Duane Kaley has said he doesn't want to risk barging in because Swartout has numerous weapons.
Swartout stepped down as chief in 1998 after pleading guilty to using a firearm while intoxicated.


And we want to know why the NSG took 60 hours to clear a total of >1000 rooms and 100s of hostages held by heavily armed terrorists who had set fire to the place? Have we any sense of proportion?

I have said this before and will repeat it.
Could we have done better? Sure? Can the NSG be equipped and trained better? Sure. There is always room for improvement, we are always learning. Could the SAS, Delta, SEALS, Shin Bet Puki SSG, Klingons, Martians, NY/LA/Chicago//PD SWAT done better? Yeah, right! Idle chatter. An operation of this scale and scope has never been prosecuted to this day, and I hope no city ever faces what Mumbai had to. The gap between armchair doofuses like NYT and professionals from the FBI, Westpoint, PDs in the US and UK, Ozland etc., is striking. While a few have hazarded a guess about completing the operation faster, no one is is sure if they could have responded faster. That's telling. The police barricades were up by the time the piglets had shot dead the Mumbai ATS leadership. And for those trashing the Mumbai Police, these were guys who literally threw the kitchen sink into battle. The guy who caught the piglet alive is 41 years old in the name of God! In the US police officers carry a sidearm all the time whether at work where they have their standard issue (Glock 9 mm mostly) or a smaller one for off-duty work. And in which city do firemen rescue people with armed crazies on the loose?

At least after this Op I hope the entire industry that romantices SWAT/SF etc., goes out of business. All those spiffy pictures and videos we see are fake. The Mumbai Ops are the grittiest urban counter-terror op we have seen ever, the first and I hope the last ever.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by ssmitra »

just my 2 paisa worth. It seems that the NSG has been been grossly under utilized. Apart from big "terrorist" related stand offs they have rarely been utilized in non-terrorist related incidents like hostage-ransom incidents or when arresting violent gangs. My point being even though they train harder than most HRT units the actual experience in real-world scenarios is quite limited as compared to other dedicated HRT units. Now I am not comparing them as anti-terro or CQB units but dedicated HRT units. AFAIK most western HRT units GSG9, RAID, FBI-HRT, LAPD-SWAT or NYPD-ERT are regularly used not only for hostage rescue but also for apprehension of armed and dangerous criminals. One of the reason is to obviously capture the target but also for keeping any children or innocents involved safe as well as protect the local police. Especially LAPD-SWAT which is used almost on a daily basis. This has also led to a very high level of both logistical and tactical experience for each operative. I don't doubt the courage, tenacity, training or capability of NSG jawans but getting such experience where casualties are not common but experience in planning and execution is valuable would serve a much better purpose than guarding politicians like modi or maninder bitta.
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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Post by ramana »

In this op and the one in Hyd when beat cops(Counter Intelligence) were sent after a known terrorist without weapons (they were mere constables and not of the rank of sub-inspector) its the officials bureaucrat mentality that is jepoardising the lives of the personnel. They still have the nerve to trot out excuses about what is allowed and not allowed. They already lost two Prime Minsters- Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi and countless commandoes how many more have to die before the bureaucrats realiz this a war and not a police action? Have they no shame?

Thanks Haric.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Raja Bose »

kaangeya

Here is another link that too from former CO of 22SAS talking:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -says.html

I hope other CT units take notice and learn instead of paki like smirks on why it took 60 hours

ssmitra

What you are saying is valid but your solution is missing the point. NSG is a highly trained highly specialized unit and is not in any way or form equivalent to LAPD/NYPD/etc SWAT. NSG SAG comprises entirely of military men who are trained in relevant police tactics whereas SWATs are policemen who are taught relevant military tactics. Different mindset, different operational doctrine, different experiences, different training levels. That being said the point you make is valid and the solution for that is creation of state level and metro level SWAT teams who can handle the armed criminals and whackos taking a child hostage on a regular basis. Such ops do not and should not fall within the NSG's scope of operations...these are strictly SWAT operations which require more police skills than military. NSG has participated in ops like those when they involved terrorist safehouses (I remember 1 op was in New Delhi) and are regularly deployed in J&K where they probably do that kind of stuff (just that the target in their sights is someone who is way more motivated and well trained than a gun-wielding dada).

NSG and SWAT were born out of totally different requirements. SWAT came about in US when they realized police were being outgunned and outmatched in tactics even by criminals who has sophisticated military weapons. In US these gun related incidents are common whereas in India these type of gun-related crimes are comparitively much rarer. OTH NSG was born due to a requirement for a specialized HRT which can take on well trained motivated terrorists who had military CQB skills (which even a well armed criminal wont usually have). In India these terrorist incidents are common whereas US has never faced this on their soil. Hence, we cannot compare the 2 types of units or extend one's doctrine to the other.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Rahul M »

to say NSG doesn't have experience isn't quite correct.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORC ... &Itemid=26

The Chief, Director General Ranjit Shekhar Mooshahary, has had a busy day. His boys have just returned in a blaze of glory from Akshardham. One died in action; incredibly, it is the first casualty in the 103 NSG operations so far.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by ssmitra »

Rahul M wrote:to say NSG doesn't have experience isn't quite correct.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORC ... &Itemid=26

The Chief, Director General Ranjit Shekhar Mooshahary, has had a busy day. His boys have just returned in a blaze of glory from Akshardham. One died in action; incredibly, it is the first casualty in the 103 NSG operations so far.

Wow didn't know that. But it's surprising in 103 operations they still haven't solved their transportation issues.
But 103 ops of hostage rescue or terrorist eliminations.

I point is mainly about reducing casualties. Both their own as well as hostages.
how different piglets (criminals or terrorists) think, react or act will not always be covered in training manuals.
Just in hindsight and I am no expert but maybe major unnikrishnan's life may have been saved by a prior experience where they might have realized that one Vox among a team gets defeated if there is no visual contact especially if you have small enclosed spaces with a lot of bends and blind spots.

but in the end I will say that I do not believe that there is any other team in the world which could have done a better job under the situation.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Nayak »

Beebul,

Please see how the Great Satan dealt with two crooks high on drugs and access to weapons were able to bring the LAPD and SWAT to it's knees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

We cannot compare the Massaland team and tactics with the doctrine and makeup of NSG
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Raja Bose »

ssmitra,

The scenarios you are mentioning for reducing casualities are practiced in the kill house with live rounds and smoke, fire etc. They are not something that NSG will be likely to face while taking down common criminals. Apart from my previous post, what is NSG going to do....fly to different cities going in action against local goondas?...not feasible nor desirable. Casualities in such dynamic ops are inevitable (due to reasons outlined in another previous post of mine)...they must be minimized no doubt. The Akshardham casualties might have been avoidable (NSG had an equipment deficit which was exposed and then Babus woke up and resolved that, but promptly forgot about the air wing), the casualties in Black Tornado....I am not too sure what more could have been done. :cry:

It is always a learning experience...perhaps all operators will have to get used to VOX headsets or strategies will be formulated to deal with such a situation. One thing NSG is superb about feedback and the updation of their training modules (anybody remember the Rubaiyya training scenario? :D ). This feedback is not just training for SAG, SRG but also their EOD. NSG routinely collects bomb residue and info from every bomb blast that ever takes place in India. Their National Bomb Data Centre is designated a Centre of Excellence.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Aditya G »

rohitvats wrote:There is no NSG badge that I see. Also, what is the badge on left breast pocket? TIA.
Those are NSG 'wings' immediately above the ribbons.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Aditya G »

Raja Bose wrote:kaangeya

Here is another link that too from former CO of 22SAS talking:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -says.html
Thanks for that article quoting here to describe exactly what problems we faced in MUmbai:
The officer, who won the Military Cross fighting al-Qaeda units in Afghanistan in 2001, and spent most of the last three years in Iraq fighting against the same enemy said: "The doomsday scenario that we always presented in planning was multiple and mobile incidents in London by suicidal armed terrorists because very quickly they could achieve a lot of fatalities before anyone could pinpoint the threats and react effectively.

"This would produce the type of chaos that would defy even the most sophisticated command and control systems. You would turn London into a temporary war zone very quickly."

...

Speaking for the first time since resigning from the Army last year, the former SAS Colonel said almost every counter-terrorist force in the world would struggle to cope with multiple terrorist attacks on the scale faced in Mumbai and particularly in countries such as the UK that choose not arm its conventional Police.

He added: "It was always the doomsday scenario which Peter Clarke and I both recognised as the most challenging. In the early stages of such an attack there would a lot of death and chaos. Our unarmed police would be able to do very little except report in. There would be many hours of chaos before the police, backed by the military counter-terrorist response teams were in a position to contain, let alone neutralise, the terrorist threats."

The former officer added that British armed response teams are not as numerous, well trained or equipped as they should be to deal with a fast moving and violent a scenario as that which occurred in Mumbai.

"A Mumbai-style attack requires a military-type response," he said. "Our armed police are brilliant at dealing with armed criminals, in ways that produce the best possible chance of a conviction of a suspect in the law courts but they are as yet unlikely to be as effective as they need to be when chasing terrorists armed with AK47s and chucking grenades in the centre of London."

"What we probably need is more forward-based rapidly deployable armed police units that are trained to find and fix a mobile enemy with limited/no information in a very confusing situation, to set the conditions for follow-on decisive assaults (as happened in the Hotels in Mumbai); and that initial 'fixing force' task is a very demanding task and one that requires time and resources to build properly.
I bet TSP strategy would be unleash multiple fidayeen terror attacks across the country when we are in a state of war.

In case of war will we never have MARCOS and Army troops available to engage and contain the terrorists. The local police will have te manage on their own with only smaller teams from NSG available. :roll:
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Singha »

I know for sure the GSG9 is a police controlled force. any members of german army(heer) wanting into GSG9 has to resign and join up.
in that way they are a bit different from delta, gign, sas ..and more similar to fbi hrt and nsg.

I remembered yesterday which nation has trained and extensively planned for this kind of urban mayhem terror warfare.

North Korea.

their plans call for Noko commandoes to do something similar in Seoul and other cities but much bigger scale - assassinations, bombings, random shootings....

obviously the ISI and Noko have been drinking tea together and exchanging training manuals.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by sum »

One thing NSG is superb about feedback and the updation of their training modules (anybody remember the Rubaiyya training scenario? :D ).
Could you please elaborate, Dr. Bose??
TIA...
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Rahul M »

sum, check BR pages. and google for rubbaiya(spelling) saeed. :wink:
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by sum »

Thanks a lot for the "tip-off"....
Mission accomplished!!!
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Raja Bose »

^^^That reflex shooting training scenario is one of the reasons why NSG's shooting is second to none and led to terrorist with a bullet in each eye.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Rahul M »

what I didn't understand is why there were fatalities in spite of NSG having much better body armour.

there was an article specifying the protection level NIJ xyz. can't locate it.
anyway, isn't it good enough for AK rounds ? where were they shot ?
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by neerajb »

Airports on high alert over aerial attack threat
Earlier on Thursday, Air chief Fali Homi Major said the government has received inputs about terrorists' plans to carry out a 9/11-type aerial attack on targets in India.
Just wondering whether we have sky marshals onboard commercial airliners like Israel deploys onboard ElAl flights.

Cheers....
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by sombhat »

Yes we do, but only on vulnerable/important sectors. I could tell you which seats are allocated for them, but I wont :mrgreen:
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Raja Bose »

Rahul M wrote:what I didn't understand is why there were fatalities in spite of NSG having much better body armour.

there was an article specifying the protection level NIJ xyz. can't locate it.
anyway, isn't it good enough for AK rounds ? where were they shot ?
The article is here http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/29m ... e-deal.htm

Entire article is posted in NSG/MARCOS news+photo thread.

They might have been hit in the head/neck. Maybe Ray sir can throw some light on this since this is a topic us armchair kamandus can only surmise at.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Neilz »

Rahul M wrote:what I didn't understand is why there were fatalities in spite of NSG having much better body armour.

there was an article specifying the protection level NIJ xyz. can't locate it.
anyway, isn't it good enough for AK rounds ? where were they shot ?
NIJ standard of Ballistic Resistance of Personal Body Armour (NIJ Standard-0101.04 updated revision ‘a’ &’B’


http://sjvn.nic.in/tenders/pcd/ppr1594/jacket-spec.pdf
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by sum »

Just wondering whether we have sky marshals onboard commercial airliners like Israel deploys onboard ElAl flights.

Cheers....
Certainly...
Has been a policy since IC-814 saga.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by ramana »

The local police in US has a bp jacket/vest that goes under his uniform shirt. Can we have some thing like that for the beat cops?
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Sachin »

sombhat wrote:Yes we do, but only on vulnerable/important sectors. I could tell you which seats are allocated for them, but I wont :mrgreen:
Are you a commercial airline pilot by any chance? ;). A friend of mine who is did mention that Pilots are generally informed about Sky Marshals, and their seat numbers etc.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Raja Bose »

Sachin,

Are you the webmaster for B-R army section?
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by RayC »

As all of us know the days of mass para drops are unlikely to ever return. Today paradrops is a specific skill to be used in a few different situations and not for mass infiltration behind enemy lines as in days of large scale battle of maneuver. Whatever makes you think that the Para Regiment leadership does not have the ear of the AHQ? In modern offensive practice SF are meant to strike deep and provide a surprise lever or breakthroughs. The IA SF has fulfilled this role with distinction. CQB methods were overhauled post-Blue Star and Pawan and are now robust. As far as weapons are concerned they have access to every possible make and type they need.
Why do you feel that mass para drops are obsolete a concept?

The Airhead Concept is still valid and is quite relevant in the Indian context.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by sombhat »

Sachin wrote:Are you a commercial airline pilot by any chance? ;). A friend of mine who is did mention that Pilots are generally informed about Sky Marshals, and their seat numbers etc.
No saar, onlee MS Filght Simulator for me. I have friends in Jet who are in the know. The seats are not fixed, however. The attendants I guess are also informed.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Kartman »

Rahul M wrote:to say NSG doesn't have experience isn't quite correct.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORC ... &Itemid=26

The Chief, Director General Ranjit Shekhar Mooshahary, has had a busy day. His boys have just returned in a blaze of glory from Akshardham. One died in action; incredibly, it is the first casualty in the 103 NSG operations so far.
The underlined part is incorrect, IMHO... this might have been the first fatality in a publicised operation, but the NSG had been bloodied in battle before. Waaaaay back in the 90s, I'm pretty positive about having read an obit in a newspaper of a Havaldar who died in an op in J&K, who was mentioned to have been the "first martyr from 51 SAG". At that time (mid-90s, IIRC), to me it was the first indication that NSG was operating on a regular basis in J&K.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Kartman »

ssmitra wrote: I point is mainly about reducing casualties. Both their own as well as hostages.
how different piglets (criminals or terrorists) think, react or act will not always be covered in training manuals.
Just in hindsight and I am no expert but maybe major unnikrishnan's life may have been saved by a prior experience where they might have realized that one Vox among a team gets defeated if there is no visual contact especially if you have small enclosed spaces with a lot of bends and blind spots.
Sadly, that is how tactics evolve... through actual experience, paid for in blood :cry:
The news report clearly mentions that it was decided not to go with one set for each team member because of increased confusion, etc. They will, obviously, now have to reevaluate this - and I'm sure, professionals that they are, they will...
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Kartman »

Raja Bose wrote:One thing NSG is superb about feedback and the updation of their training modules (anybody remember the Rubaiyya training scenario? :D ).
Getting into this discussion a bit late... but what's the Rubaiyya scenario :)
I don't recall NSG ever being involved there... IIRC, VP Singh's govt just caved-in and released the piggies :evil:
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Kartman »

Rahul M wrote:what I didn't understand is why there were fatalities in spite of NSG having much better body armour.

there was an article specifying the protection level NIJ xyz. can't locate it.
anyway, isn't it good enough for AK rounds ? where were they shot ?
Couple of points....
(a) Even with level 3++ armour, there is a limited envelope where it is effective. There are a whole bunch of places where you can get hit (e.g, face, neck, sides). Plus, at short distances, even the ceramic inserts would be ineffective against 5.56/7.62 fire :cry:

(b) Specifically in this case, it is unclear to me what level of protection the helmets provide. Can someone clarify which, if any, of the 2-3 types of helmets seen with the NSG provide ballistic protection ? Don't recall seeing any of the NSG guys in PASGT-type helmets, though do recall seeing the odd pic of IA or Marcos with these...

(c) Also, in such CQB-type situations, where evacuation might be very difficult or impossible, someone could just bleed to death over a few hours, even with an otherwise non-critical wound :cry:
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Lalmohan »

one thing to bear in mind is that operations of this type - must start with a strong and effective police response - then backed up by an army response. otherwise we will overstretch the army in unreasonable ways

therefore - every city - must have a team of dedicated CQB specialists who can locate and fix the terrorists first and hold them until the NSG arrives

the police command and control system needs to be looked at much more carefully too

the images from last night's Delhi airport incident looked much more reassuring in terms of police being on top of things - but then I suspect Delhi cops have had more experience and resources to focus on terror than Mumbai cops have to date

the more i watch the cctv images, the more i marvel at the sheer courage of the ordinary cops in mumbai who risked everything despite being outgunned, and so many paid the price; we need to treat these men with more respect and provide them with the resources to do their jobs
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by kaangeya »

Re BPJ, police officers in the US by default wear them under shirt, and after some hemming and hawing and much representation, there are now custom designed BPJs for women police officers :mrgreen: But all of us forget that in police action the distances are v.close and the police must give the suspect the benefit of doubt - heaven forbid there be an accidental shooting, in which case the jhamela that follows is comparable to the bureaucratic nightmares our babus can inflict. And BPJs only prevent penetration of of the body wall not impact, which is v.v.v. nasty. :( The BPJ must be strapped on real tight, so tight that you have trouble breathing. Police officers get used to it in Massaland, which is why you see them looking so burly and swinging their arms around, or speaking in short breaths. But of course when you are undercover - let's say the PO is playing a washed out junkie or lady of the night, there is no BPJ for some obvious reasons, and apart from the trusted small Glock, and your loud voice (no headsets) there is no protection. Recent police deaths I now of (in Canada and the US) have all involved POs in uniform with BPJs. It's that dangerous.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Raja Bose »

Kartman wrote:
Raja Bose wrote:One thing NSG is superb about feedback and the updation of their training modules (anybody remember the Rubaiyya training scenario? :D ).
Getting into this discussion a bit late... but what's the Rubaiyya scenario :)
I don't recall NSG ever being involved there... IIRC, VP Singh's govt just caved-in and released the piggies :evil:
Actually the training scenario was incorporated precisely after VeePee Singhji caved in and released piglets. The scenario (if memory serves me correct in this 'old' age :mrgreen: ) was that of a terrorist holding a women hostage with a gun pointed at her head and using her body as a shield. Very complex situation for reflex shooting where you have to take out the piglet without you or piglet hurting the woman.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Raja Bose »

Kartman wrote:
Rahul M wrote:to say NSG doesn't have experience isn't quite correct.
The underlined part is incorrect, IMHO... this might have been the first fatality in a publicised operation, but the NSG had been bloodied in battle before. Waaaaay back in the 90s, I'm pretty positive about having read an obit in a newspaper of a Havaldar who died in an op in J&K, who was mentioned to have been the "first martyr from 51 SAG". At that time (mid-90s, IIRC), to me it was the first indication that NSG was operating on a regular basis in J&K.
Sharp memory Kartman ji. What chawanprash do you take (Dabur?)?? :mrgreen: iirc the obit was in ToI. The NSG has been deployed plenty of times in non-public/black ops...so dont go by old India Today/other articles which uses to claim NSG has only been deployed few times.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Raj Malhotra »

I believed that NSG operated extensively in Punjab (apart from much publicised Golden Temple operations) and it suffered casualities also. At time it even used to disguise its presence by wearing police/crpf uniforms
Sanjay
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Sanjay »

Gentlemen, trawl through the NSG photos from Mumbai and you will find one of a jawan using a cell-phone camera. Look around his neck and you will see:

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/optical/3.htm

So much for the argument NVGs were not used.

Furthermore, you will see at least some of the MP-5s were fitted with laser aiming devices.

As far as the helmets go, I am led to understand - reading reports from Black Thunder II that it is much heavier and offers much better protection than the ones used by the Indian army (which incidentally are also not as old as you might guess).

Going back to an India Today report of 15 July 1993, the body armour used by the NSG is called the kavach and designed by one V.K. Datta and can stop an AK-47 or 7.62mm carbine round at point blank range.

Just for your information.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Vikram_S »

VK Datta is the gentleman presently in command of NSG.

but NSG Kavach is old data, presently they use world standard BPJ NIJ certified level 3 and above. old kavach used steel plate inserts, with drdo developed steel called jackal steel

media people forget this was not close break in like in west, where heavily armoured troop break into one room. this was a regular battle running up and down staircase and rooms. weight is a big issue.

but i wish they had worn goggles- that above newsreport is very sad. is there anyway we can help the soldier.

NSG helmets definitely looked odd and metallish, but it could just be gloss paint on kevlar.

i think what NSG need are more sophisticated robot type sensors which can scout for them ahead. and they need some kevlar/metal shields for short range protection.
Sanjay
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Sanjay »

Vikram, I agree. Especially when Indian COIN units in J&K and Assam seem very well equipped - by any standard - with protective gear.

But the NVG issue - they had it (the photograph clearly shows one set in use)- but we didn't see it in use.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Raja Bose »

They wont be strolling around in broad daylight with NVGs strapped to their heads unless they want to go blind....NSG has NVG and TIs....probably put into use but then also remember that piglets were setting fire all over the place which is a pretty good tactics to negate advantages of having these fancy gegaws.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Sanjay »

Raja. Agree with you.

These are the details for OFB manufactured body armour:

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/troop/46.htm
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