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Discussion on Indian Special Forces

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
rkhanna
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 20 May 2017 12:28

IMO, this bunching up of men (single file formation) is part of CQB drill and not exactly to be followed when you're exposed in open terrain. The pics have been taken in an open area for optics purpose. Again, IMO, it serves no purpose in open area.


If in open ground - they will be moving with Ballistic Shields. - Plenty of Pics of NSG with them already - Newly inducted Kit.

If RPG's and Heavy Guns in Play then NSG will either NOT be the primary Response Unit or Will move in close to the Structure with Armoured Sherpa's (again in Inventory)

First & third are good photo ops but bunched up without cover is asking for trouble, unless its a very momentary pause during sprint that the camera happened to capture.


This is a Photo Op for the Annual NSG Calender

NSG can be expected to be the best in CQB, because that is their primary line of work.


CQB is a perishable skill. Urban CQB is 90% of what NSG practices - where other SOF units will be practicing it less as compared to other fieldcraft. And their CQB orientation is easily visible in their Kit.

However Where NSG TRUELY comes into its own is in Hostage Rescue.

Lastly - If you see recent pictures of NSG SAG cadre you will notice that a higher % (than before) are carrying Balidan and SG badges on their uniforms. A wealth of Talent and experience is slowly accumulating within SAG ranks that will further increase their capability.

Like this gent for example

Image

Singha
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 20 May 2017 13:20

NSG being our national level FBI-HRT we should not expect them to be using ATGMs and Shipons liberally except to break down obstacles!!
being less collaterally damaging and ability to use low power MP3/5 weapons judiciously among innocents is perhaps part of the job.

cool but aint going to happen in chandni chowk - the usual khan motto of unleashing maximum lead "downrange" :D as a "operator" like Major Dutch leads a "team" , fast roping down from helis to nab the kid who stole a paratha from the stall.

the benghazi movie 13 hours is a must-see for fans of this genre...every warrior in the GRS CIA team a chiselled rogueish type from the pages of 300, bushy beard, laconic acronyms, a disdain for weak minded civilians, armed to the gunwales with a wide variety of stuff and mods, drink beer instead of water, making fun of the native guards and society "shit show" , heavily armoured 4x4, tight form fitting clothes .... pure war :D

Image

shiv
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby shiv » 20 May 2017 14:01

Singha wrote:cool but aint going to happen in chandni chowk - the usual khan motto of unleashing maximum lead "downrange" :D
http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-s ... held-2.jpg

:rotfl: This is the sort of image that Indian jingos see and internalize before they get serious and come to places like BRF, after which they complain that Indians know nothing -Americans have handheld 12.5 mm 6 barrelled Gatlings

Prasad
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Prasad » 20 May 2017 14:30

OT but talking of maximum lead downrange - https://www.theatlantic.com/national/ar ... on/315967/
Cops shot 100+ bullets at a pickup thinking it was being ridden by a murder suspect.

Singha
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 20 May 2017 14:52

the cult of the "warrior police" .
the US military has fed this machine by disposing off war surplus weapons and vehicles in large nos.
every self respecting police chief wants some stryker type "tactical vehicle" with bushmaster cannons, remote weapon stations, thermals, slat armour to tackle any "situation"

it finally ends in ridiculous scenes like these :rotfl:

Image

rohitvats
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rohitvats » 22 May 2017 19:56

There was a time when Para SF chaps were not seconded to NSG. The practice has stopped. Maybe, it has resumed again.

vasu raya
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby vasu raya » 22 May 2017 22:47

During recent times there was a second time the EDI building in Pampore was used as shelter by terrorists and IA lost two Captains and one soldier I believe, and it was CQB

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gaur » 01 Jun 2017 10:45

Great news for the morning :D

Jammu and Kashmir: Indian Army kills five Pakistani soldiers in LoC strike
[url]

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/GXNeTx ... trike.html[/url]

The Indian Army’s special forces in Kashmir on Wednesday eliminated a Pakistani Border Action Team (BAT) of five enemy soldiers, a government official said.

The offensive was conducted along the Line of Control in the Muzaffarabad sector by the Army’s Para (special forces), the official said on condition of anonymity. BAT is a special Pakistani army unit conducting cross-border operations.

“General Bipin Rawat has given the go-ahead to the Para (SF) to conduct a search and elimination operation of BAT teams of Pakistan. Heightened low-grade warfare is likely to take place this summer,” a government official said on condition of anonymity.

On 1 May, BAT raided the Krishna Ghati sector at the border, killing and mutilitating two Indian soldiers. Following this, the Indian Army on 22 May launched a series of punitive assaults on Pakistan bunkers, and released a video documenting another set of assaults on Pakistan bunkers in the Naushera sector. The government official quoted above said assaults will continue through summer.

“The army will be targeting bunkers. We will not wait for more of our men to die along the border or for more soldiers to be mutilated by Pakistan before we take action,” the official added.

While the Army did not officially clarify this, it stated that assaults were part of a “routine exercise.”

“These are routine things. They keep happening. Things have not escalated because it’s part of a routine exercise,” Army spokesperson Ashok Narula said.

While the Army revived cordon and search operations (CASO) in Shopian in Kashmir to flush out terrorists from the Valley, after a gap of 15 years, a defence official said the “army was going back to its methodology of the 1990s, with a more sophisticated approach.”

While General Rawat on Sunday asserted that the Indian Army was fighting a “dirty war” in Kashmir, referring to stone-pelters attacking troops, defence minister Arun Jaitley on 24 May gave the Army full authority to carry out operations in Kashmir as they deemed fit.


Gaur
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gaur » 01 Jun 2017 15:45

10 Para (SF) - Mustafas of Desert Warfare

http://www.sify.com/news/10-para-sf-mustafas-of-desert-warfare-news-columns-rf5vlQfacjbhg.html

Some snippets
My first encounter with the SF was in Agra way back in 2001. During a dinner, one of my friends, who had just passed out of IMA, asked then Major Rajesh Shyoran, Sena Medal of SF, "Sir, just like you I want to earn the maroon beret and the Balidan badge. How should I proceed?" With a smile on his face, Major Shyoran simply said, "You are very welcome to try". When my friend insisted on the point, Major Shyoran replied, "See it is simple. Either you have it in you or you don’t. Agar tumhara dil, dimag aur ghutna ek line main hai, you can make it (you can make it granted your head, heart and knee fall in a line)".


The 10 Para (SF) are also known as 'Desert Scorpions'. Officers and jawans opting for 10 Para (SF) are trained specially for desert warfare. At the start of the probation, they are given a tent, a bucket, a knife, a rope and a laltain. They have to setup their tent in the desert. Rigorous physical training goes day and night with no specific routine as there is no specific training manual. They get trained, sometimes, without food for 4 days, 1 litre water for 3 days and without sleep for 7 days. Sleep deprivation sometimes starts the moment probation starts. He will always have a 10KG sandbag on his back – this sandbag is affectionately called permanent buddy. Objective is to make the candidate realize that he is far more capable than he ever imagined. The moment he shows any weakness, he is out. Every month he has to complete 10 km, 20 km, 30 km and 40 km speed walk with full battle gear, which constitutes an additional 25 kg. These speed walks should be completed within stipulated time. Scorpions are better navigator than most modern GPS systems. In desert, there are no roads, no landmarks, not much human colonies. There are just sand dunes that keep shifting every night. In such vast and clueless place, they are halo/air dropped in the middle of nowhere, with just a compass in their hand. And using that compass and stars, they reach their destination without fail, every time. They are taught to survive with literally nothing to eat or drink. They collect dew in the wee hours to survive. Just 300 ml of water is good for them to survive for two days. Remember it is 50+ degrees in Thar and a normal human needs more than 10 litres a day to survive. They are taught to eat anything that moves in the desert area. They specially like eating scorpions - `Once you kill and roast it, remove its venom, it is really tasty`. They know which grass, which leaf, which shrub to eat to stay alive to complete the mission. Because the battle is not won by dying for your country but to kill the enemy.


Rest at
http://www.sify.com/news/10-para-sf-mustafas-of-desert-warfare-news-columns-rf5vlQfacjbhg.html

JE Menon
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby JE Menon » 01 Jun 2017 18:08

^^ From above article on 10 SF:

During a covert operation, disguised as brainwashed Kashmiris/jihadi Pakistani, Maj Sangram Singh (Shaurya Chakra) and Capt Vikas of 10 Para (SF) stayed with LeT terrorists in their camp in a jungle for 4 days. During this covert operation, they gathered tremendous amount of information and killed all 4 terrorists. Indian Army broke down LeT network using that information. Terrorists were so terrorised that they were always on the run thereafter.

Read more at: http://www.sify.com/news/10-para-sf-mus ... cjbhg.html

Kashi
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Kashi » 01 Jun 2017 19:02

I am a little confused. The article says that

"Officers and jawans opting for 10 Para (SF) are trained specially for desert warfare."


But then it goes on to say

Maj Sangram Singh (Shaurya Chakra) and Capt Vikas of 10 Para (SF) stayed with LeT terrorists in their camp in a jungle for 4 days.


Are 10 Para (SF) also trained in jungle/mountain warfare? I assume an LeT camp must be in PoK forests.

ramana
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ramana » 02 Jun 2017 00:44

What confusion? They can operate anywhere? Read further about Colonel who climbed Everest.

Kashi
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Kashi » 02 Jun 2017 06:16

ramana wrote:What confusion? They can operate anywhere? Read further about Colonel who climbed Everest.


No not that. I would have thought that just like 10 para were specialised in Desert warfare, other para regiments would have their own specialisations- jungle, mountain, urban etc, although all of them could probably do the other jobs well enough.

I am no expert on SF Ops, so I simply assumed that the operatives for specific Ops would be chosen based on their specialisation and the specialisation of their parent regiment.

Singha
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 02 Jun 2017 07:49

by now all SF units must have rotated through Cashmere. so snow , hill or jungle, they are familiar in all terrain.

and I am sure there are rotational postings in the desert as well.

Thakur_B
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Thakur_B » 02 Jun 2017 08:32

https://twitter.com/shatrujeet009
https://www.facebook.com/shatrujeet009/

^^ The shatrujeet009 twitter and facebook page has become a really good source of SF pictures. There are a few SFF pictures there as well

sum
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sum » 02 Jun 2017 09:38

Treasure trove of pics indeed. All their posts in DFI on SF actions are also very accurate

rohitvats
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rohitvats » 02 Jun 2017 10:27

The initial Para Commando Battalions were raised with geographical specialization in mind. That is why 9 Para Cdo was stationed in Udhampur and 10 Para Cdo was based in Jodhpur. When 21 Para Cdo came into being, it went to north-east and is based in Chabua. 1 Para Cdo was AHQ strategic reserve and based in Nahan (Himachal Pradesh). It was experimented upon to create a true blue special forces battalion in early 80s. All other Para Cdo battalions subsequently shifted to this new SF pattern.

Somewhere along the line, geographic specialization was abolished. All SF battalions are capable of operating in all terrains. But pure common sense would tell you that guys based in Jodhpur with primary AOR in desert have an edge. Same for guys based in mountains.

Also, each SF battalion has a affinity to particular region when it comes to recruits. Jodhpur chaps have Jats, Rajput, Ahir, Gujjar, Yadavs etc while fellows in Udhampur have more of mountain tribes - Himachal, J&K, UK, Punjab etc.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 02 Jun 2017 13:36

The TOE of each battalion would be different as well, so while the individuals can operate in any environment the unit will have to be specialized. Eg: 10SF obviously has a lot of 4x4s and other desert warfare related stuff like camp nets.

rkhanna
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 02 Jun 2017 14:05

>>Also, each SF battalion has a affinity to particular region when it comes to recruits. Jodhpur chaps have Jats, Rajput, Ahir, Gujjar, Yadavs etc while fellows in Udhampur have more of mountain tribes - Himachal, J&K, UK, Punjab etc.
<<

Most important point as Language / Cultural Training to existing Affinity is aligned.

rohitvats
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rohitvats » 02 Jun 2017 17:38

Small correction - 21 Para SF is based in Jorhat, not Chabua. My bad.

Rishi Verma
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rishi Verma » 18 Jun 2017 09:18

Image

when did msd earn this? Did he jump?
I like the wording on his daughter's dress

Manish_P
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Manish_P » 18 Jun 2017 11:00

He did complete 1. Could not find confirmation about the other 4 (including 1 night jump)


sum
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sum » 18 Jun 2017 13:47

FB "Shatrujeet" page has supposedly the only SG operators in combat gear pic(other than the one other famous pic of them in all black in some sort of HRT operation mode storming a dummy house)

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 21 Jun 2017 03:31

It shouldnt have taken a Pathankot to make this decision. Garuds should not only deploy in J&K, but also exhibit inter operability with IA in these ops.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/path ... 83201.html

...Garud commandos - the special forces of the Indian Air Force - who were first to interdict the terrorist on January 2, 2016, will now be deployed along the Indian Army in counter-terror operations in Jammu and Kashmir. "The Garuds are a competent force, but they need to battle hardened. Based on the inquiry report the government has decided to deploy them in Jammu and Kashmir for battle inoculation," top sources said.....

Gaur
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gaur » 16 Jul 2017 18:51

Many would remember Col SS Shekhawat, CO of 21 Para SF. It was really sad and frustrating to read the below article. Never knew that he was another victim in the whole Johrat mess. This along with the the TDS incident are 2 very damaging legacies of dirty politics in IA during UPA period.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/i-have-been-systematically-vicitimised-says-army-s-most-decorated-officer/story-Q3X3groo0FzkjoJOTRRjbM.html

India’s most decorated officer, Colonel Saurabh Singh Shekhawat, has accused two former army chiefs and a senior serving officer of victimising him for speaking up about a botched operation in 2011 that embarrassed the force.

The 45-year-old Shekhawat has named former chief Gen Bikram Singh, his successor Gen Dalbir Singh and Lt Gen Abhay Krishna in his complaint to the army headquarters.

“I am forced, with distress and disillusionment, to state that despite being highest decorated serving officer in the army with an unblemished operational profile, I have been systematically vicitimised by officers at the highest level,” Shekhawat has said in the letter, a copy of which is with Hindustan Times.

Shekhawat’s allegations have brought the focus back on the Jorhat operation that led to an all-out war among India’s top army officers and at one point even threatened to derail the force’s succession plan.

Gen Dalbir Singh and Lt Gen Krishna didn’t respond to repeated phone calls or messages. Gen Bikram Singh said he didn’t remember the case. “It is not right for me to comment also, as it’s more than three years that I have retired,” he told HT.

Shekhwat, who is on study leave and is pursuing research at the Delhi-based Institute for Defence Studies and Analysis, declined comment.

Such complaints usually take six to seven months to be processed, army sources said, refusing further comment. The complaint was made in April.

On the night of December 20, 2011, an army intelligence unit barged into the house of Jorhat-based businessman Surjit Gogoi on the suspicion he was working with the separatist United Liberation Front of Asom.

Gogoi, a contractor with the military engineering corps, was not home when the intelligence unit of the 3 Corps, which was based in neighbouring Nagland’s Dimapur, raided his home in the presence of his wife and other family members.

The soldiers allegedly took away cash, gold and mobile phones from his home, inviting allegations the raid was a robbery. Gogoi lodged a complaint that led to a police investigation.

His 21 para (SF) unit was based in Jorhat at that time but in a breach of procedure, the army intelligence unit didn’t inform his unit or local police about the operation, Shekhawat’s letter says.

He brought the incident to the notice of his superiors but they denied the army was involved.

He spoke to the then brigadier, general staff, Abhay Krishna, who “denied any involvement and asked me as to how do (did) I know that 3 CISU (the Intelligence Unit) had done such a thing? I was shocked by the reaction”.

The intelligence unit was under Krishna’s command. Bikram Singh was the eastern army commander and Dalbir Singh the 3 Corps commander. Krishna took charge of the southwestern command this January.

The intelligence unit raid caused an uproar and the then army chief Gen VK Singh, who is now a minister at the Centre, issued a showcause notice to Dalbir Singh, who was in line to be the army chief in 2014.

It threatened Dalbir Singh’s chances to lead the army. In an affidavit to the Supreme Court, he accused VK Singh of victimising him “with the sole purpose of denying promotion to the appointment of army commander”.

When he took over as the chief in May 2012, Gen Bikram Singh reversed VK Singh’s decision to bar Dalbir Singh from heading the Eastern Command, clearing his way to the force’s top job.

Similar allegations have now been made against Gen Dalbir Singh.“I learnt that directions were issued to my initiating officer to fix Col SS Shekhawat. This vindictive attitude continued when General Dalbir took over as army commander,” the letter says.

As the chief, Gen Dalbir Singh even got him dropped as the leader of an Indian Army expedition to Mount Everest in 2016. An avid mountaineer, Colonel Shekhawat has conquered the Everest thrice.

A part of the Indian Army’s elite special forces, Shekhawat has three gallantry awards to his name — Kirti Chakra, Shaurya Chakra and Sena Medal — and a Vishisht Sena Medal for distinguished service.
Last edited by Gaur on 16 Jul 2017 19:00, edited 1 time in total.

Gaur
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gaur » 16 Jul 2017 18:54

One of many news videos featuring Col Shekhawat


wig
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 17 Jul 2017 14:59

SF target Pak troops, kill 5. excerpts from article in paper published from Jammu

At least 5 Pakistani soldiers were killed after Special Forces of Army targeted their vehicle along the Line of Control (LoC) in Furikiyan sector in district Kupwara today.
Sources said that Special Forces of Army (Paras) targeted a Pakistani army vehicle on Neelam Valley road today. The vehicle that was targeted by the Special Forces fell into Kishan Ganga river called as Neelam river by Pakistan which is the LoC in the sector.
They said five soldiers drowned in the river and one body has been recovered so far. “Pakistani troops were seen searching for the bodies in the river”, they said.

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/spl-force ... ps-kill-5/

Singha
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 17 Jul 2017 15:09

^^ this was retaliation for paki snipers killing two of our soldiers a week ago.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 23 Jul 2017 01:49

RN Kao and Brig Uban

*Rare pic* 8)

Image

vikassh
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby vikassh » 24 Jul 2017 14:09

Maj Gaurav introducing Para SF through this video. Some generalizations/observations:

- Sainik schools show good representation among officers.
- Officers can join Para SF from OTA as well.
- Youtube can be a good recruitment medium as it disseminates valuable information for future aspirants.
- Modified AKs also being used by para.



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