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Discussion on Indian Special Forces

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
rkhanna
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 04 Sep 2017 17:06

Aditya G wrote:
sum wrote:Was this ever posted here? Huge lowdown on the SG with loads of pics:
SPECIAL GROUP (4 VIKAS) : India’s Clandestine Unit


I think it was Col MP Choudhary who founded/formed Special Group.


That is correct. He was an ex 10SF officer and his tasking to raise SG was called Project Sunray. 6 men spent time with Sayeret Matkal.

Rumour has that Israeli help was a sort of Thank you for Indian "Support" during the Entebbe operation.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karthik S » 04 Sep 2017 17:34

rkhanna wrote:Rumour has that Israeli help was a sort of Thank you for Indian "Support" during the Entebbe operation.


Indian support during Opn Entebbe? Is it possible to elaborate further here.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 04 Sep 2017 17:50

Karthik S wrote:
rkhanna wrote:Rumour has that Israeli help was a sort of Thank you for Indian "Support" during the Entebbe operation.


Indian support during Opn Entebbe? Is it possible to elaborate further here.



My understanding is that Indian Intelligence had unique access and Intelligence on Dada Amin and the hostage situation. Indian Intelligence was active in Uganda since the early 70s because of Amin's actions against the Indian Dispora. This Intelligence was fed to the Israelis in planning their operation.

India's pro-Arab stance and diplomatic relations has ensured non-disclosure.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karthik S » 04 Sep 2017 18:00

Thanks.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sum » 04 Sep 2017 18:01

This was listed in the other article on SG posted in the elite predators website.
Else there was no reason for Israel to allow access to their crown jewels to a pro Arab nation like India

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sum » 04 Sep 2017 18:11

One soldier KIA in surgical strike in Myanmar as per tweets

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gaur » 05 Sep 2017 09:39

^^
Arunachal rebel camp raided
https://www.telegraphindia.com/1170905/jsp/frontpage/story_170813.jsp

The 21 Special Forces battalion today launched the operation at 7.30am following specific inputs about the presence of NSCN (K) militants along the border near Longding district of Arunachal Pradesh.

Troops of 21 Para SF and 16 Assam Rifles killed an NSCN (K) cadre and injured another near Votnu village under Wakka circle in the district. The encounter site is around 15km from the Indo-Myanmar border.

A 21 Para SF personnel was also injured in the operation, army sources told The Telegraph.

An Assam Rifles press release said security forces also destroyed a temporary shelter and recovered an AK-47 riffle with ammunition.

"Several other militants managed to escape into the nearby dense forest because of dense fog in the area. The special forces recovered an AK-56, a radio set and a hand grenade, along with live bullets. During a combing operation, the forces located a camp of the rebels and destroyed it," said an official in the army headquarters.

Army chief Bipin Rawat, who met Union minister of state for home Kiren Rijiju at his North Block office later in the day, told reporters that the latest operation by security forces against NSCN (K) along the India-Myanmar border was "normal operations".

"These are normal and routine operations. Such operations happen everyday," he said.


"The operation is still under way to locate some of the militants who managed to flee. There were no casualties among our own forces," the army official added.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 05 Sep 2017 09:49

seems to me these forest based militias in NE are no longer in a position to challenge the state apparatus...but they take advantage of terrain and sparse and far flung hamlets to extort money from govt officials, businessmen, contractors, run some drug smuggling and use that as a living wage, while cream gets sent to their leaders in myanmar and yunnan border tracts.

in effect they are just well armed rural goondas no different from any other part of india and not some 'revolutionary front' or 'separatists'

the lean pickings in their camp does not indicate a high level of prosperity or infra.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gaur » 05 Sep 2017 10:03

^^
True. Though terrorists had largely been defanged since then, Operation All Clear in 2003 broke their back.

One almost forgets that it was mortally dangerous for army personnel to go out for even grocery shopping back in a day. As a reminder of that, almost all Military Vehicles for personal transportation are painted white even now.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Sid » 05 Sep 2017 11:26

^^ it was Op Rhino in early 90s which cleared ULFA, and other groups, out from Indian border. It was much worse in North east, Kashmir pales in comparison to it.

I wonder why NE never got media's attention even though these groups had active support from China.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 09 Sep 2017 17:19

Can this be ordered abroad?

http://m.hindustantimes.com/books/india ... P_amp.html


.........


But in September 2016, when the Indian government officially announced that the army’s special forces units had conducted “surgical strikes” across the Line of Control, we knew that this was a story that needed to be told, not just in broad strokes, but in as much detail as humanly possible. Not in recent memory – and certainly not in this new digital world of ours – had a military operation galvanised and captivated an entire country. When we requested the Army to allow us access to top secret files on the surgical strikes, we expected to be laughed out of their headquarters. We heard nothing. For seven months, not a scrap of paper was shared with us. We knew it was a long shot. And that’s why nothing prepared us for the meeting we would be invited to in April this year in a basement chamber at South Block.


The man we met was an Army officer, one among thousands of Majors in service. Lean, dressed in brown boots, tan trousers and a full-sleeved white shirt with a tie, he sported a full beard and a half smile on his face. This was the man who had led the surgical strikes in 2016. Speaking for the first time to journalists about the mission, his words would be the first on-record account of what happened, recounted by the very man who led the explosive mission. The interview, which leads India’s Most Fearless, isn’t just the first official account, but provides depth and detail unknown earlier beyond a very small group of soldiers and officers.


Wing Commander Gaurav Bikram Singh Chauhan ( Courtesy India’s Most Fearless )
As we began to write about the surgical strikes, we remained immersed in the effortless heroism of the Major and the teams he led into Pakistan-occupied Kashmir. It became our quest, therefore, to expand the scope of our book to tell as many stories as possible, shine a light on as many of modern India’s military heroes as we possibly could. Men who most of us know only very briefly when they receive gallantry awards on Republic Day – or when their stoic, grieving widows receive an Army salute at Delhi’s Parade Grounds. We therefore sought out a list of heroes from the Army, Navy and Air Force, of men whose breathtaking acts of dauntlessness we felt needed to be recorded and told before they were blurred by the passage of time. It wasn’t difficult to find these heroes.

Like the Lieutenant Colonel who led a terrifying cross-border attack into Myanmar in 2015 to avenge the massacre of Indian Army soldiers in Manipur that year. For this book, he too was permitted to speak for the first time. As Prime Minister Modi logged a historic visit to Myanmar this past week, this chapter acquires even greater significance as it captures in first-hand detail a mission that could have well ended in disaster on foreign soil. Both our countries will hear for the first time what happened during that legendary operation on Burmese territory.

The two surgical strikes chapters will raise many questions for observers and analysts, but they end all arguments on the government’s formal stand on them. Not only did they happen, but the world will now hear about them for the first time in full detail – not just beyond journalistic ‘sources’, but in the words of the very men who led the missions, speaking on the record. Speculation about the chapters has already led to a buzz and condemnation across the border in Pakistan, that has staunchly denied that the 2016 surgical strikes even happened. On the strength of these first hand accounts, it remains to be seen if the Modi government will decide to further proffer photographic or other proof of the operations. For now, these chapters propose the most direct wager to Islamabad

?...............

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gaur » 09 Sep 2017 18:37

^^
Should be. It is listed at amazon.com (US) as "temporarily out of stock". I guess one should be able to order post its release date of 20 Sep.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rakesh » 09 Sep 2017 20:56

Amazon.ca has the book for sale.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Picklu » 12 Sep 2017 02:02

no kindle edition :(

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Guddu » 12 Sep 2017 05:11

18$ on Amazon, USA

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby shaun » 12 Sep 2017 08:10

i have ordered mine ...will get it in between 23rd nd 27th .. :)

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 12 Sep 2017 08:47

A second book is about to cover Surgical Strikes ... by Nitin Gokhale. Lucky days for jingos normally starved of literature on recent military history!

Image

Image

Image

https://nitinagokhale.blogspot.ie/2017/ ... -book.html

....

Sometime in early 2017, I was on my annual visit to one of the military training establishments to deliver a talk. Over tea, after the usual lively interactive session, a young, smartly turned out officer popped a question that stumped me for a moment. He asked, "Why do the media always doubt our military's ability? Why can't it believe the forces when they say Indian soldiers went across the LoC to carry out surgical strikes?" :roll: {Edit: the scepticism and politics by Kejriwal and likes was most shameful} My counter to him was, “Don't generalise.” “There are many (including me in my earlier avatar as a media practitioner) who report factually but in absence of official accounts of what actually happened in the raids that took place in 2015 and 2016, it is difficult for the media too, to give the audience the full picture,” I pointed out to him.

While the officer did not go away entirely convinced the exchange with him set me thinking. On the return flight to Delhi, I tried to recall what I exactly knew about many of the recent actions taken by the military and other security forces; or for that matter how decision-making evolves at say, the Prime Minister’s level or in the top echelons of the government. As I scribbled some points, realisation dawned: I may have known enough to write a quick news story or a longer analysis, but clearly, the details have always been elusive in respect of crucial events in the realm of national security.

....

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby jamwal » 12 Sep 2017 11:10

Please do not post excerpts like that of such a recent copyrighted work without permission

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 12 Sep 2017 14:54

Nitin Gokhale posted these on twitter.

jamwal wrote:Please do not post excerpts like that of such a recent copyrighted work without permission

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby jamwal » 12 Sep 2017 16:58

Thanks. Didn't knew

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 13 Sep 2017 12:24


Gaur
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gaur » 27 Sep 2017 10:37

Army is opposing Black Cat commandos being stationed in Kashmir. But why?

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/indian-army-kashmir-nsg-black-cat-commandos-counter-insurgency/1/1056761.html

It is Kashmir's best kept secret for at least a month now. Kept under wraps is a mini National Security Guard (NSG) hub-cum-regional training centre in Jammu and Kashmir (J&K), where the Black Cats will soon be training security forces in the terror-hit region with focus on urban core operation, urban warfare and room intervention.

Sources said the decision was taken by the ministry of home affairs, but setting up of the base was kept low key. DGP Sudhir Pratap Singh confirmed that the NSG had been deployed for training purpose, but refused to comment further on it. However, the latest entrant in the trouble-torn state has caused flutter and debate within the forces. Initially brought into the Valley for operational purpose, there seemed to be an opposition from certain quarters in the army and security forces. Due to this, the NSG team has been now been limited to train security personnel of CRPF and the J&K Police.

High level sources confirmed to Mail Today that "a Company (40 personnel) of Black Cats commandos of the NSG have been camping at the CRPF pre-induction training centre in Lethapora, near Srinagar, for close to a month, though any sort of training is yet to begun".
NSG's 51 Special Action Group (SAG), tasked to carry out anti-hijack and anti-terror operations, are currently stationed in south Kashmir. A top source said "the army has been opposing to it tooth and nail" as the security forces operating in the Valley are divided on utility of Black Cats in counter-terror operations.

Despite being considered best in uniform to deal with counter-terror operations, the NSG was not called on August 26 during a suicide attack unleashed by three Jaish-e-Mohammed terrorist at the District Police Line, Pulwama. The terrorist were holed up in two blocks, but not once, did any of the forces on ground felt the need to involve the NSG, who were only a few kilometres away. An army officer deployed in counter-terror operations in south Kashmir told Mail Today, "With regards to insurgency, the army has always dealt with counter-terror operations while the NSG deals only with the operations once every few years."

A senior CRPF officer too echoed the sentiment saying, "There are already multiple agencies working in the Valley. It will lead to a further confusion if NSG is added as force multiplier." The NSG has trained state police's Special Operations Group (SOG) last December at their headquarters in Manesar. While Kashmir has largely been out of bound for NSG commandos, the initial steps may change the counter-terror scenario in the state , which has largely been infested by Pakistan-backed terror groups.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 27 Sep 2017 23:08

The NSG should be deployed in J&K and should take part in active operations.

However their jurisdiction should be limited to ops which are handled by CRPF alone. NSG should thus be the additional and more skilled muscle available on call to address specific tactical challenges. Thus, NSG will not step on Armys's shoes.

IA-SF can then focus on hinterland ops and also assist RR and infantry where required.

NSG is India's premier counter terrorist force and I see their capability being wasted while waiting for 2 terror attacks per year. Low ops tempo is not good for this force.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Sid » 28 Sep 2017 04:07

Although these articles seems to indicate BS territorial fight between agencies, deployement of specialized force like NSG will only augment them.

Plus no IA officer will say that “they take part in ops once every few year”, knowing very well that SAG is manned by experienced IA personal only.

Inclusion of NSG will reduce operational fatigue of CRPF, and specially IA.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 28 Sep 2017 12:49

The NSG should be fit into the counter terrorist matrix in J&K by consulting the Army. MARCOS dett in wular is over 20 years old now, how does that work so well? Half the problems are because babus do not want to consult stakeholders before taking decisions.

NSG if deployed as say, QRT in Srinagar could take on all urban CT tasks in a particular region. ARMY SF have enough on their hands even if there are 4-5 units there (1SF, 4SF, 9SF, 22SF and Marcos)

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 28 Sep 2017 13:10

^^ Dont forget Garuds will also start rotating in soon to gain experience.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 28 Sep 2017 21:52

rkhanna wrote:^^ Dont forget Garuds will also start rotating in soon to gain experience.


We have been hearing about it, but question is whether they will take up an AOR like Marcos and execute CT ops there.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Sumair » 28 Sep 2017 23:24

NSG the premier counter terrorist force is in name only. Army has no respect for their operational capabilities. It is known in the inner circles that NSGs will never see any real action other than photo ops around our VVIPs. So the postings are very sought after and awarded almost always on nepotism bases. Two occasions when they were actually thrust into action on 7/11 and Pathankot; their performance was abysmal. This not my personal opinion but gleaned from conversations with a NIA officer who was member of investigating team into Pathankot fiasco.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 29 Sep 2017 01:49

Often, personal opinions of people seemingly in the know can be biased and misleading.

Secondly, professional pride in one's unit should not be seen as lack of respect for the other.

Sumair wrote:NSG the premier counter terrorist force is in name only. Army has no respect for their operational capabilities. It is known in the inner circles that NSGs will never see any real action other than photo ops around our VVIPs. So the postings are very sought after and awarded almost always on nepotism bases. Two occasions when they were actually thrust into action on 7/11 and Pathankot; their performance was abysmal. This not my personal opinion but gleaned from conversations with a NIA officer who was member of investigating team into Pathankot fiasco.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby vasu raya » 29 Sep 2017 01:58

There were differences in the number of terrorists shot dead as counted by NSG and NIA in the Pathankot operation other than that the NSG was successful in preventing a breakout of the terrorists across the campus by confining them to a small area until neutralized

OTOH IA lost three commandos while flushing out terrorists from EDI building in Pampore in J&K recently which can be classified as CQB operation

More important than the above debate is which of these specialized forces can play red teams in training local police forces in the metros. The red team shall not exceed eight members at any time

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby srin » 29 Sep 2017 09:14

Sumair wrote:NSG the premier counter terrorist force is in name only. Army has no respect for their operational capabilities. It is known in the inner circles that NSGs will never see any real action other than photo ops around our VVIPs. So the postings are very sought after and awarded almost always on nepotism bases. Two occasions when they were actually thrust into action on 7/11 and Pathankot; their performance was abysmal. This not my personal opinion but gleaned from conversations with a NIA officer who was member of investigating team into Pathankot fiasco.


Even if it were true (and I've no basis to say either way*), it is all the more reason then that NSG does get operational experience, no ? Because irrespective of the current state of affairs, they are the one called in, in case of a terrorist attack in major cities. This actually lends support deploying them in the valley.

*PS: I found the VVIP comment a bit strange esp if it is coming from someone in the know. After all, SAG is different from SRG, rt ? And secondly, isn't the SAG drawn from Army ?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 29 Sep 2017 12:38

Aditya G wrote:
rkhanna wrote:^^ Dont forget Garuds will also start rotating in soon to gain experience.


We have been hearing about it, but question is whether they will take up an AOR like Marcos and execute CT ops there.


From what i understand they will be embedded with 31 RR and/or Army SF and not operate on their own. Outside of that (like in the naxal areas) they will start flying with IA Helos practicing for Hot evacs - suggesting that more over the border / near the border action will become the norm.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 29 Sep 2017 12:43

Sumair wrote:NSG the premier counter terrorist force is in name only. Army has no respect for their operational capabilities. It is known in the inner circles that NSGs will never see any real action other than photo ops around our VVIPs. So the postings are very sought after and awarded almost always on nepotism bases. Two occasions when they were actually thrust into action on 7/11 and Pathankot; their performance was abysmal. This not my personal opinion but gleaned from conversations with a NIA officer who was member of investigating team into Pathankot fiasco.



Completely disagree with the statement. The cross pollination of Tactics that SF personnel take back to their units post SAG stint is immense. I have one relative you has spent time with SAG in the past. SF / SG personel routinely send personnel to NSG kill houses and instructors and vice-versa. Spend sometime with Soldiers/officers on the ground.

THe NSG SAG is a long and chequered history of CT/HRT including an Airliner Take down.

The politics of Army Vs anybody else is a different beast. With the new NSA/NSC structure they are feeling insecure (Specially with Pathakhot) and there is push back. but that is a whole different conversation.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 05 Oct 2017 01:10

The Morung Express

‘September 27 firing between NSCN (K), Indian Army occurred 15 kilometer inside Myanmar’
October 1, 2017

DIMAPUR, SEPTEMBER 30 (MExN): The Konyak Union (Myanmar) has refuted the claim made by the Indian Army that it did not cross the Indo-Myanmar border to engage in a gun battle with the NSCN (K) on September 27, 2017.
 
According to a statement received from the Konyak Union (Myanmar) president S.A. Khotai and general secretary K. Honwang on Saturday, the firing between the Indian security forces and the NSCN (K) on September 27 took place between Khonsa and Langkho village, approximately 15km inside Eastern Konyak Myanmar.
 
Quoting report from Langkho villagers, it said that many unexploded bombs were found in the paddy fields of Langkho village where the gun battle allegedly took place. The location was two kilometers before reaching Langkho village and the firing occurred between 3am and 6am in the morning.
 
....

Indian Army trekked 2 hours into Myanmar: NSCN (K)

In a separate press statement, the NSCN (K) also reiterated their earlier claim that encounter between the “Indian Para Commandos and Elite Unit of NSCN/GPRN” took place deep inside Myanmar Naga area situated around 15kms away from the international boundary.
 
“…The Eastern Command have no idea at all that Langkho village is deep inside Myanmar Naga area situated around 15km away from the international boundary where the encounter took place before dawn on 27 Sept between Indian Para Commandos and Elite Unit of NSCN/GPRN,” the press statement maintained.
 
The NSCN (K) further alleged that the Indian Army soldiers had illegally trekked more than two hours deep into Myanmar and in the process had side trekked the first two frontier villages from India side-Khammoi and Loji and had already reached the outskirt of the third frontier village Langkho from where they were “halted, killed, injured and repulsed by the Naga Army.”
 
It therefore advised the Indian Army’s higher authorities to ascertain themselves of the fact that Langkho village is nowhere near the so claimed Indo-Myanmar artificial international boundary but beyond several frontier villages.
 ...

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby IndraD » 06 Oct 2017 23:13

MARCOS foil pirate attack on Indian ship in the Gulf of Aden.
MARCOS foiled attempt against an Indian bulk carrier in the Gulf of Aden. http://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/c ... -aden.html
The piracy attempt was made on the Indian ship MV Jag Amar at 12:30 pm and the INS Trishul, which was on an anti-piracy deployment in the region, responded immediately, Navy spokesperson Capt D K Sharma said.
Image

He said all 26 Indian crew onboard the Indian ship were safe.

The Navy's elite Marcos commandos carried out a swift operation to rescue the 85,000-tonne bulk carrier.

Capt Sharma said an AK 47, one magazine with 27 rounds, grapnels, ropes, fuel drums and ladders were recovered during the operation.

Twelve pirates on a skiff made the piracy attempt on the Indian ship.

The Indian Navy has been actively engaged in anti-piracy operations in the Gulf of Aden, a key shipping route near the southern tip of the Red Sea between Somalia and Yemen.

In April, the India and Chinese navies had rescued a merchant ship in the Gulf of Aden after it was hijacked by Somali pirates.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rakesh » 07 Oct 2017 08:40

A beautiful poem written by a hero of Surgical Strike...
https://twitter.com/shatrujeet009/statu ... 0826536960

Image

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sum » 11 Oct 2017 10:14

2 Garuds attached to IA KIA in J&K anti terror op

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 11 Oct 2017 10:20

^^ Finally proof that Garud is operational in JK.

RIP to Casualties. wish we didnt have to find out this way

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sum » 11 Oct 2017 10:24

Their 1st operational casuality since Pathankot attacks?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya_V » 11 Oct 2017 10:36

This is unfortunate,feel very sad about this, whenever our soldiers, Police die.

But it is very important that Garud's get operational experience.


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