Discussion on Indian Special Forces

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Shameek
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Shameek »

atreya wrote:The newspapers are mentioning "C-60" commandos to tackle Naxalite insurgency. Can someone provide me with more information regarding this force?
Some information on C-60 operations in Gadchiroli.
Link
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Nikhil T »

Are Mumbai's Force 1 commandoes good enough?

The 3 x 8-hr shifts are understandable because they want to maintain small enough numbers for the force as a whole and still be available within a short notice 24 x 7. For Mumbai, 212 commandoes is good enough.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Dmurphy »

Nikhil T wrote:Are Mumbai's Force 1 commandoes good enough?

The 3 x 8-hr shifts are understandable because they want to maintain small enough numbers for the force as a whole and still be available within a short notice 24 x 7. For Mumbai, 212 commandoes is good enough.
Don't forget, we also have NSG around all the time.
Last edited by Dmurphy on 11 Oct 2009 10:25, edited 1 time in total.
Dmurphy
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Dmurphy »

Garuds may guard Delhi during CWG 2010
IAF helicopters carrying combat commandos armed with snipers and assault rifles are likely to be roped in to keep a hawk-eye vigil over Delhi during the next year's Commonwealth Games.

The Home Ministry has approached the Defence Ministry to provide at least seven to eight helicopters for surveillance of the Delhi sky during the fortnight-long sporting event which will be attended by 8,000 athletes, 1,00,000 spectators and nearly 30 heads of states.

"We hope that the IAF helicopters will be available to us on time," a Home Ministry official said.

A request to the Defence Ministry has been sent as the Home Ministry choppers, which are with the BSF, have been made available to the Naxal-affected states.

The helicopters will be stationed at key locations in the capital and will be deployed whenever the security agencies feel it necessary.

However, Home Secretary G K Pillai had already said that as of now there was no specific terror threat to the sporting extravaganza.

Pillai had said India will take all necessary measures to ensure that mega sporting event passes off peacefully.

"On behalf of the organising committee and Sports Ministry and everybody in the government of India, we want to tell everyone that we are totally committed to secure and safe Commonwealth Games," he said.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Dmurphy »

This news article says the NSGs have got some cutting edge tech gadgets and weapons but does not mention which one. Any idea what they are?
As DD India reports, the Indian elite counter-terror force NSG is in the process of procuring a wide range of latest weaponry and gadgets including door busters, taking cue from its experience during the Mumbai terror attack.

Addressing commandos at their Garrison in Manesar, Union Home Minister P Chidambaram said, "the NSG is going to induct high-tech and sophisticated weapons in the coming days."

"Based on our experience in Mumbai, we have identified certain devices and gadgets like night sight equipment and door busters. We are procuring them," National Security Guard (NSG) Director-General N P S Aulakh told reporters.

The need of such new and high-end devices was felt by the force after the commandos carried out 'Operation Black Tornado' against terrorists in Mumbai who had entered luxury hotels and a residential complex (Nariman House).

The DG refuted reports of army's reluctance to sparing more officers for the force, saying "they are coming in phases and we are putting them on training. They also have shortage of officers, but they (army) are providing us with officers", Aulakh said.

The four new hubs of the force will also be "fully operational" by middle of December this year, he said.

While the hubs at Kolkata and Hyderabad would be upgraded to the level of regional centres with a strength of 5,000 men each, the other two hubs at Mumbai and Chennai will have 241 commandos each.

The Mumbai and Hyderabad hubs, having residential and training facilities, would start functioning by 30th November, while the hubs in Kolkata and Chennai would start operating by 15th December, Aulakh said.

Bomb disposal and detection squads will also be made operational soon at the new hubs which are working in association with respective state governments' units now, he added.

Earlier while delivering his speech during the silver jubilee celebrations of the NSG, Chidambaram said, "the NSG will grow as a potent force against terrorism. Every day, every week and every month we are adding to our capacity to deal with terror and defend India's honour, sovereignty and security."

Paying tributes to the martyrs of the force, he said "we also remember the supreme sacrifices of NSG commandos Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan and Hawildar Gajender Singh and the entire force who fought valiantly to neutralise the terrorists in Mumbai in November last year.”

The commandos presented a spectacular display of their firepower and skill as they recreated the scene of the Mumbai terror attacks.

Representative buildings like the Leopold cafe, Taj hotel, Nariman house and Cama hospital, attacked during the terror attacks, were designated for the commandos to showcase their techniques.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Rahul M »

As DD India reports, the Indian elite counter-terror force NSG is in the process of procuring a wide range of latest weaponry and gadgets including door busters, taking cue from its experience during the Mumbai terror attack.
halligan tools probably.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by ParGha »

Rahul M wrote:
As DD India reports, the Indian elite counter-terror force NSG is in the process of procuring a wide range of latest weaponry and gadgets including door busters, taking cue from its experience during the Mumbai terror attack.
halligan tools probably.
Hope they invest in other such tool for door opening, like MasterKey (basically a shortened shotgun) and CanOpener (a frame you attach to the door with small amount of plastique near the hinges). I have seen some really heavy doors and locking systems in India, especially at hotels and corporate offices... "Can you break through that door?" "Yeah, but breaking through the wall will be faster and safer".

Actually it brings up an interesting question I have long wanted to ask. What is the Indian Army's standard explosive charge called? Is is the standard Semtex? (cuz they use a lot of ex-WP stuff) Or something else? Also what, if any, is the non-DDM translation of RDX? (Sorry if the second question is common knowledge for those in India, it took me a some time to understand that what Indian media calls the "AK-56" is basically the NORINCO Type-56... yeah, I am a slow learner :oops: ).
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by nitinr »

RDX = Royal Demolition Explosive

Hope I am not wrong...
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Rahul M »

nitinr wrote:RDX = Royal Demolition Explosive

Hope I am not wrong...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclotrime ... initramine
There are many explanations for the name RDX, including (but not limited to) Royal Demolition eXplosive, Research Department (composition) X, Research Developed eXplosive,[7] and Research Department eXplosive. Research Department composition X is most likely correct.[4] In the United Kingdom, new military explosives were given an identification number preceded by the letters 'RD' indicating 'Research Department No.'.[4] For some reason, this explosive was unable to be given a number. Instead, the letter 'X' was appended to indicate 'unknown' with the intention of adding the number later.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Bob V »

Dmurphy wrote:This news article says the NSGs have got some cutting edge tech gadgets and weapons but does not mention which one. Any idea what they are?
there was a report from INDESEC that NSG were interested in Stunner ( a weapon similar to a Taser ).
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by ParGha »

OK, thanks... so its cyclonite. Any help on IA's standard explosive charge?
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Singha »

per outlook mag current issue, Army is setting up a brigade HQ in chattisgarh/jharkhand area
and will provide training and consultancy to all the anti-naxal forces. pic of a SF instructor was also shown.

I think its a pretty good idea to pass on SF training and tips to all the anti-naxal forces in the
affected states uniformly.

some of the army/RAW COMINT gear might also prove useful.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Mitu »

Mitu wrote:Hello all,

I am an active milsimmer, and my current project is to create an accurate impression of the modern Indian Para Commando. I've been able to locate information on the uniform and weaponry, but that's about it. I'm hoping someone can provide me with more insights on their other equipment, such as boots, load bearing equipment, magazine pouches, etc. (and also if these items can be purchased somewhere).

Thanks!
Just bumping this from a few pages back, anyone know or could point me in the right direction?
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Brando »

Mitu wrote:
Mitu wrote:Hello all,

I am an active milsimmer, and my current project is to create an accurate impression of the modern Indian Para Commando. I've been able to locate information on the uniform and weaponry, but that's about it. I'm hoping someone can provide me with more insights on their other equipment, such as boots, load bearing equipment, magazine pouches, etc. (and also if these items can be purchased somewhere).

Thanks!
Just bumping this from a few pages back, anyone know or could point me in the right direction?
I doubt anybody on this forum even knows who Milsimmers are and I am stunned to know that there are milsimmers in India. I didnt know there were any casual players in India!

As for packs, boots and stuff, for the most part they use regular issue Army equipment. I doubt they sell their standard issue boots and packs anywhere to civilians as there arent any military surplus stores like they have in the West.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Mitu »

Ha, Im not in India, Im in the US. That's unfortunate about the lack of availability, thanks for the info!
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by d_berwal »

Mitu wrote:Ha, Im not in India, Im in the US. That's unfortunate about the lack of availability, thanks for the info!
you can try Gopinath Market in Delhi...
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by srai »

Dmurphy wrote:...
...
The four new hubs of the force will also be "fully operational" by middle of December this year, he said.

While the hubs at Kolkata and Hyderabad would be upgraded to the level of regional centres with a strength of 5,000 men each, the other two hubs at Mumbai and Chennai will have 241 commandos each.

The Mumbai and Hyderabad hubs, having residential and training facilities, would start functioning by 30th November, while the hubs in Kolkata and Chennai would start operating by 15th December, Aulakh said.

Bomb disposal and detection squads will also be made operational soon at the new hubs which are working in association with respective state governments' units now, he added.

...
Surprised that Bangalore is not a hub as well. According to this List of most populous cities in India, Bangalore is the third largest city after Mumbai and Delhi. It has larger population than Kolkata, Chennai, and Hyderabad.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Virupaksha »

srai wrote: Surprised that Bangalore is not a hub as well. According to this List of most populous cities in India, Bangalore is the third largest city after Mumbai and Delhi. It has larger population than Kolkata, Chennai, and Hyderabad.
Srai,

They are municipal limits of city not an urban conglemoration.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by srai »

ravi_ku wrote:
srai wrote: Surprised that Bangalore is not a hub as well. According to this List of most populous cities in India, Bangalore is the third largest city after Mumbai and Delhi. It has larger population than Kolkata, Chennai, and Hyderabad.
Srai,

They are municipal limits of city not an urban conglemoration.
Dude I know what the concept of a "Metropolitan area" is. My question is about why Bangalore "Metro" area is not a NSG hub?
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by sum »

Politics?

K'taka being BJP ruled state and stuff....The other reason provided was there is already a TA SF battalion posted at all times in B'luru and hence, no need of NSG :-?
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by pgbhat »

sum wrote:Politics?

K'taka being BJP ruled state and stuff....The other reason provided was there is already a TA SF battalion posted at all times in B'luru and hence, no need of NSG :-?
Also aren't Garuds already stationed in B'luru?? :-?
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by sum »

I dont think so..they are deployed during Aero India.

Even if they were, why should SF be made to conduct HRT missions when there is a specific force raised for it (NSG)?

By same logic, since MARCOS is already present in Mumbai, there is no need of a NSG hub there.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by pgbhat »

Hard to disagree with you sum-ji, would be interesting to know if it was because of logistics and infrastructure or was it a decision driven by politics.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by KiranM »

Mumbai and Chennai are Coastal cities. Delhi and Kolkata are closer towards 'friendly' neighbours. Bangalore by virtue of its location provides more time for intelligence tripwires unlike other cities of importance. Hence, lower in priority.

2 cents of what I could make sense apart from political reasons.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Brando »

srai wrote: Surprised that Bangalore is not a hub as well. According to this List of most populous cities in India, Bangalore is the third largest city after Mumbai and Delhi. It has larger population than Kolkata, Chennai, and Hyderabad.
Logically, the deployment of NSG is contingent on the threat perception faced by a metro rather than population count. Also, Chennai and Bangalore are close enough to each other to not warrant an additional deployment (distance between Bangalore and Chennai is 181 miles).
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by jimmy_moh »

Brando wrote:
srai wrote: Surprised that Bangalore is not a hub as well. According to this List of most populous cities in India, Bangalore is the third largest city after Mumbai and Delhi. It has larger population than Kolkata, Chennai, and Hyderabad.
Logically, the deployment of NSG is contingent on the threat perception faced by a metro rather than population count. Also, Chennai and Bangalore are close enough to each other to not warrant an additional deployment (distance between Bangalore and Chennai is 181 miles).
and chennai has lot of foreign consulates
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Jonathan Allen »

Bangalore already has an Army Special Forces contingent. That is the Govt's position for not basing NSG there.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by merlin »

Jonathan Allen wrote:Bangalore already has an Army Special Forces contingent. That is the Govt's position for not basing NSG there.
Do IA SF train for the kinds of role that NSG do?
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Brando »

I doubt military SF's are trained in hostage negotiation, non-lethal apprehensions and terrorist interrogation etc skills. These things are ideally done by civilian law enforcement agencies and SWAT.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by srai »

Brando wrote:
srai wrote: Surprised that Bangalore is not a hub as well. According to this List of most populous cities in India, Bangalore is the third largest city after Mumbai and Delhi. It has larger population than Kolkata, Chennai, and Hyderabad.
Logically, the deployment of NSG is contingent on the threat perception faced by a metro rather than population count. Also, Chennai and Bangalore are close enough to each other to not warrant an additional deployment (distance between Bangalore and Chennai is 181 miles).
That's still quite a distance to cover for emergencies. Will they have a dedicated helicopter fleet to deploy to Bangalore quickly?

As far as threat perception, recent expansions by the terrorist groups to attack all over India rather than just in the J&K area puts all major metros in higher risks. Bangalore is on the international map with it being one of the main IT hubs of India. There was recently an attack on one of the universities where a professor was killed. So I think the threat is quite high in par with other 4 cities receiving NSG hubs.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Surya »

While by all logic Bangalore is more news worthy and strategic and hence a larger target - the reality is that this system will never cover everyone.

hence the need to have a local force which can manage things till NSG arrives
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Rahul M »

with all the institutes and research orgs there people would have thought there was a better case for b'lore than either chennai or hyderabad.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Gaur »

http://s698.photobucket.com/albums/vv34 ... nt=NSG.jpg
I came across this pic on militaryphotos.net forum.
It was captioned as NSG commando.
But are NSG allowed to grow beards?
I thought that no one except for NAVY allowed beards.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by ParGha »

Gaur wrote:http://s698.photobucket.com/albums/vv34 ... nt=NSG.jpg I came across this pic on militaryphotos.net forum. It was captioned as NSG commando. But are NSG allowed to grow beards? I thought that no one except for NAVY allowed beards.
No one except Navy, practicing Sikhs, men on LRRP, medical cases... OK he doesn't appear to be any of those, but who knows the rules for various police forces that also contribute to the NSG? In any case if his CO appears to be OK with it and he keeps it neatly trimmed, whose business is it? More interested in the fact that he is carrying a Non-Glock... what is that all about?
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by pmund »

If it's NSG, it could be a Sikh. No one else is allowed to keep beards, i guess, unless u r excused shaving for a skin rash u picked up sneaking about in the jungles of Kashmir :)
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Gaur »

ParGha wrote:
Gaur wrote:http://s698.photobucket.com/albums/vv34 ... nt=NSG.jpg I came across this pic on militaryphotos.net forum. It was captioned as NSG commando. But are NSG allowed to grow beards? I thought that no one except for NAVY allowed beards.
No one except Navy, practicing Sikhs, men on LRRP, medical cases... OK he doesn't appear to be any of those, but who knows the rules for various police forces that also contribute to the NSG? In any case if his CO appears to be OK with it and he keeps it neatly trimmed, whose business is it? More interested in the fact that he is carrying a Non-Glock... what is that all about?
I am not whining about the beard. Just curious.
Anyways, you are wrong about it being CO's choice concerning a person's beard. Until and unless the circumstances demand it, no one, including CO, can grow a beard.
At least that's how it is in IA. So the person in the pic should not belong to SAG.
Of course, the beard may not be an issue in other paramilitary services. But I do not know much about that. That is why I was asking about the beard.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by ParGha »

Gaur wrote:I am not whining about the beard. Just curious. Anyways, you are wrong about it being CO's choice concerning a person's beard. Until and unless the circumstances demand it, no one, including CO, can grow a beard. At least that's how it is in IA. So the person in the pic should not belong to SAG. Of course, the beard may not be an issue in other paramilitary services. But I do not know much about that. That is why I was asking about the beard.
Who do you think decides "the circumstances demand it"? :)
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Gaur »

ParGha wrote:
Gaur wrote:I am not whining about the beard. Just curious. Anyways, you are wrong about it being CO's choice concerning a person's beard. Until and unless the circumstances demand it, no one, including CO, can grow a beard. At least that's how it is in IA. So the person in the pic should not belong to SAG. Of course, the beard may not be an issue in other paramilitary services. But I do not know much about that. That is why I was asking about the beard.
Who do you think decides "the circumstances demand it"? :)
Well, IA is very strict on that matter.
If I would say that it is frowned upon to not shave for even a day, it would be an understatement. IA is "very" rigid on that matter.
No CO posted at, lets say Lucknow,would allow his unit personnel to grow a beard.
I have yet to see an IA officer with a beard at a peace area and I doubt if I would ever see one.
Thats why I wondered if NSG were allowed to keep beard, or was that pic was taken of a person serving under "special circumstances".
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Dmurphy »

^^^

Does it cross your mind that it could be MARCOS?

Its seems like he's been photographed at some warship launching ceremony.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by chetak »

Rahul M wrote:with all the institutes and research orgs there people would have thought there was a better case for b'lore than either chennai or hyderabad.

The simple but inescapable fact is that Bangalore is in a BJP state.
On such weighty considerations are our national security decisions made.

The state government made repeated requests for also basing the NSG at Bangalore but were turned down, by chidu of all people.
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