Discussion on Indian Special Forces

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 1158
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Postby rkhanna » 10 Feb 2007 19:08

Can some explain the significance of these aircraft in SF duties ? What role did these aircraft play in US SF operations ? What are the capabilities of C-130J in SF role ? And Operationally How can we deploy these new birds ?


from what i understand the C-130 requires an extremely short runway for takeoff/landing and its main capability is in landing on unprepared/dirt runways. Which can be critical for SpecOp missions when you dont have the time to prepare a Forward staging area. (example of the botched Iran Rescue opp)..

ALso the SpecOps varient (if that is indeed the one we are getting) comes with a special set of Avionics of Night lowlevel flying and EW Gear to get pass SAM sites.

Johann
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2075
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Postby Johann » 11 Feb 2007 03:15

Austin wrote:Now that we have decided to purchase 6 C-130J aircraft for Special Forces Operation ( perhaps even as Tanker role )

Can some explain the significance of these aircraft in SF duties ? What role did these aircraft play in US SF operations ? What are the capabilities of C-130J in SF role ? And Operationally How can we deploy these new birds ?

Thanks


There are three different variants used in three different roles;

- insertion/retreival deep in denied areas, particularly when you are doing it in numbers, or with equipment (eg vehicles) that make a helicopters impractical. Low-level night flying through someone else's air defences. That's the workhorse role. How much fancy kit you want to put on the plane for this kind of mision is up to the force in question.

- loitering precision close air support, particularly at night or low-visibility. The AC-130 is better in the role than anything else available.

- air-to-air refuelling tankers for long-range helicopter missions. This is really quite frightening stuff. Not being a flying type myself I always had nightmare visions of the helicopter blades slicing in to the fuel hose and producing a bunch of overdone kebabs.

One observation is sf tactical transport aircraft become *horribly* complicated and expensive because senior officers dont know when to say no to extra kit. The result are often problems that simpler aircraft wouldnt have had. The other is that sf support pilots are usually the best there are, and will come up with realistic, exhaustive and (relatively) safe training on their own and should be given the lattitude to make decisions about what is safe or not safe to fly.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Postby Singha » 11 Feb 2007 07:57

the MH53 and MH60 are fitted with huge long nose probes for AAR mission well clear of the fwd arc of rotor. to disengage I think they need to slow down and pitch up a little to let fuel hose get away clean.

but doing it at night over khyber durra aint no picnic.

Raj Malhotra
BRFite
Posts: 997
Joined: 26 Jun 2000 11:31

Postby Raj Malhotra » 11 Feb 2007 09:31

Austin wrote:Now that we have decided to purchase 6 C-130J aircraft for Special Forces Operation ( perhaps even as Tanker role )

Can some explain the significance of these aircraft in SF duties ? What role did these aircraft play in US SF operations ? What are the capabilities of C-130J in SF role ? And Operationally How can we deploy these new birds ?

Thanks


I wonder these birds for a particular region called Afghanistan, to do what no uncle can do or rather to help uncle do what has to be done for freedom to various regions of Pakistan

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Postby Austin » 11 Feb 2007 09:51

Thanks rkhanna & Johann.

Raj It is very interesting though that we would go ahead and purchase exclusively 6 C-130J just for SF role as confired by ACM , Certainly we are thinking in terms of some future continental operation in which SF would have a very important role to play

Johann
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2075
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Postby Johann » 11 Feb 2007 10:38

Singha wrote:the MH53 and MH60 are fitted with huge long nose probes for AAR mission well clear of the fwd arc of rotor. to disengage I think they need to slow down and pitch up a little to let fuel hose get away clean.

but doing it at night over khyber durra aint no picnic.


Turbulence or pilot error from fatigue can push a helicopter in to the tanker's wake. Pitching blades, disengaging drogues, av fuel splattering all over, it happens sometimes, although it hasnt yet produced catastrophe. For those in the back its almost better not to know.

Riza Zaman
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 69
Joined: 15 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: NYC, NY
Contact:

Postby Riza Zaman » 17 Feb 2007 03:04

It's important to distinguish between CT units (NSG), CI units (RR) and SF units (Para Cdos, etc).

Unfortunately, we have underutilzed or misutilized our SF units by treating them more like elite infantry.


Raja Bose
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19478
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 01:38

Postby Raja Bose » 01 Apr 2007 21:55

For those of you who havent seen this series before.....the officer who is seen throughout the programme making jokes and funny comments, Commando Dilip Jha, died about a year after this series was filmed during COIN ops in Mendhar sector, J&K. He killed 4 terrorists before being hit by a freak bullet. Very poignant to see him laughing and entertaining his buddies in these clips... :(

Riza Zaman wrote:BBC series on the junior leader commando training camp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re8KeMnI3No
Clip 1
...

Ajay K
BRFite
Posts: 109
Joined: 04 Aug 2001 11:31

Postby Ajay K » 02 Apr 2007 16:06

Folks, wondering whether the Lancer can be modified to accomodate people outside of the chopper like the little bird(MH-6) shown here. Remember the Black Hawk down, Delta forces used the little birds. :lol:

MH-6
http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/military-020.jpg

Lancer
http://media.bharat-rakshak.com/aero/v/ ... 1.JPG.html

Jayram
BRFite
Posts: 304
Joined: 14 Jan 2003 12:31

Postby Jayram » 02 Apr 2007 21:18

Raja Bose wrote:For those of you who havent seen this series before.....the officer who is seen throughout the programme making jokes and funny comments, Commando Dilip Jha, died about a year after this series was filmed during COIN ops in Mendhar sector, J&K. He killed 4 terrorists before being hit by a freak bullet. Very poignant to see him laughing and entertaining his buddies in these clips... :(

Riza Zaman wrote:BBC series on the junior leader commando training camp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re8KeMnI3No
Clip 1
...


More details here
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/mag/2002/10/27/stories/2002102700170300.htm Scroll down.
Apparentely he killed 6 bad guys and took a bullet just under his BP jacket. Awarded the Kirti Chakra.
I grew up in the Belgaum Cantoment Area and all the coverage area is very familiar to me.
-Jayram

Riza Zaman
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 69
Joined: 15 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: NYC, NY
Contact:

Postby Riza Zaman » 03 Apr 2007 02:48

Jayram wrote:
Raja Bose wrote:For those of you who havent seen this series before.....the officer who is seen throughout the programme making jokes and funny comments, Commando Dilip Jha, died about a year after this series was filmed during COIN ops in Mendhar sector, J&K. He killed 4 terrorists before being hit by a freak bullet. Very poignant to see him laughing and entertaining his buddies in these clips... :(

Riza Zaman wrote:BBC series on the junior leader commando training camp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re8KeMnI3No
Clip 1
...


More details here
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/mag/2002/10/27/stories/2002102700170300.htm Scroll down.
Apparentely he killed 6 bad guys and took a bullet just under his BP jacket. Awarded the Kirti Chakra.
I grew up in the Belgaum Cantoment Area and all the coverage area is very familiar to me.
-Jayram


According to http://indianarmy.nic.in/martyrs/homage ... c_id=59231 he was killed in Op. Parakram

Army Number IC-59231
Rank CAPT
Name DILIP KUMAR JHA
Date of Casualty 02-10-2002
Operation OP PARAKRAM
Regiment Served The Jat Regiment
Unit Served 7 JAT
Home State Bihar

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11240
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Postby Aditya_V » 03 Apr 2007 02:53

Does anyone know what the Pakistani causualties during operation Parakram were? because for the first time since 1989 the Pakis became very eager for a ceasefire along the LOC after operation parakram came to an end.

Raja Bose
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19478
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 01:38

Postby Raja Bose » 03 Apr 2007 05:07

Good find! in fact in the first clip you can hear him say his army number to the instructor at the railway station.
Anybody have any info re. this encounter? was it with paki troops or the jehadi piglets?

Riza Zaman wrote:
According to http://indianarmy.nic.in/martyrs/homage ... c_id=59231 he was killed in Op. Parakram

Army Number IC-59231
Rank CAPT
Name DILIP KUMAR JHA
Date of Casualty 02-10-2002
Operation OP PARAKRAM
Regiment Served The Jat Regiment
Unit Served 7 JAT
Home State Bihar

Riza Zaman
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 69
Joined: 15 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: NYC, NY
Contact:

Postby Riza Zaman » 04 Apr 2007 08:48

http://www.nsg.gov.in/TrainingBrochure.pdf

NSG brochure, I had no idea there was a NSG museum - might be worth while checking out if u're in the area

Raja Bose
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19478
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 01:38

Postby Raja Bose » 04 Apr 2007 21:55

On page 5 one can see 2 CRP women going thru one of the obstacle courses.

Have known about an NSG museum but dont think it is open to aam janta.

Riza Zaman wrote:http://www.nsg.gov.in/TrainingBrochure.pdf

NSG brochure, I had no idea there was a NSG museum - might be worth while checking out if u're in the area

narmad
BRFite
Posts: 217
Joined: 10 May 2005 09:47
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Postby narmad » 02 May 2007 05:27

Navy's Marine Commandos steal the show
Arunkumar Bhatt

Called the Marcos they fight an insurgent like an insurgent

These diving commandos were deployed in Kashmir for militants were using water bodies such as lakes, rivers and ravines to take cover. Soon they became famous as ``dareewali fauj [bearded force]'' among the militants.
``If civilians see us they would surely mistake us for militants for we look like them but militants would know who we are. If they spot us from a distance, they fire but if spotted nearby they try to run away and that is the time we go for a kill,'' Petty Officer Ram Mehar told The Hindu .

Other Marcos who were honoured were sailors Anoop Singh and Amarjeet. Admiral Mehta also conferred Nao Sena Medal (Gallantry) on diver Ajay Kumar and Petty Officer Ravinder Kumar for recovering explosive-laden containers from the cold waters off Mumbai in zero visibility to save the environment.

A Sharma
BRFite
Posts: 1141
Joined: 20 May 2003 11:31

Postby A Sharma » 02 May 2007 18:42

Arjun tanks undergo baptism in desert wargames
special forces, which tried out their new Israeli-made hand weapons.

Seems Tavor have been inducted

sunilUpa
BRFite
Posts: 1795
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 04:16

Indian Army yet to receive Israeli assault rifles

Postby sunilUpa » 10 Aug 2007 17:58

More than five years after a $20 million contract was signed, the Indian Army is yet to receive the 3,070 Israeli 5.56 mm Tavor 21 assault rifles (TAR-21s) for its Special Forces (SF).

Military sources said the rifles were in the process of being shipped to India and likely to arrive some time in the next few weeks. Thereafter, it will take some months before being inducted into service, in all likelihood by the yearend.

The TAR-21s have a modified, single-piece butt and new sights supplied by Israel's International Technical Lasers, making them a 'trifle heavier' with the addition of a 40 mm M 203 under barrel grenade launchers (UBGLs) supplied by Turkey.


The rifle's 5.56 mm ammunition is being supplied by Singapore Technologies.

The deal for the TAR-21s, including ammunition, was originally clinched in 2002 with Israel Military Industries (IMI).

But after IMI's bifurcation, the contract was taken over by Israel Weapon Industries (IWI) that acquired control of the company's small arms division.

India's ministry of defence (MoD), however, continued its dealings with IMI and two years ago invoked contractual obligations claiming damages for the delayed deliveries - further deferring their arrival besides leading to turbulent negotiations.


In 2005, IMI had supplied 350-400 TAR-21s, without UBGLs, for around $1.5 million to India's Special Frontier Force (SFF), a quasi-military commando unit based in northern India that is deployed primarily by the country's two principal security agencies for special missions.

Military sources said the SFF's TAR-21s would subsequently be fitted with UBGLs.

The Special Forces, however, found the TAR-21s 'operationally unsatisfactory' following problems with their foldable butt and entered into discussions with IMI - and later IWI - to effect changes and for additions like UBGLs.
All these were successfully tested last year in Israel and the consignment cleared for delivery.


IMI-IWI, meanwhile, has also entered into partnership with India's state-owned Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) to locally build under licence the TAR-21's 9 mm version - called ZTAR - for use by India's Special Forces parachute regiments. The OFB-produced ZTAR is undergoing user trials.
As part of the same contract, IMI has also supplied around 130 Galil 7.62 sniper riles and some 450,000 rounds of ammunition to the SFF and the army's SF for around $1.4 million over two years ago.


Link

gopal.suri
BRFite
Posts: 191
Joined: 26 May 2007 17:22

Postby gopal.suri » 10 Jan 2008 09:26

A huge read for the special forces fans

They Just Did Not Stand and Stare, They Did and Dared

by Lt Col (Retd.) A.K Sam Sharma

A book Review on:

Special Forces : Doctrine, Structures and Employment Across the Spectrum of Conflict in the Indian Context
Author: Oberoi, Vijay (Ed.)

......These, and many other issue related to the SF, are the content matter of this heavy tome, which essentially minutes a seminar on the issue, held in Nov 2004, which was organized under the aegis of the Centre for Land Air Warfare Studies (CLAWS), a newly conceived think tank headed by a former retired Vice Indian Army Chief : Lt Gen Vijay Oberoi.

Rudranathh
BRFite
Posts: 227
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 20:06

Postby Rudranathh » 10 Jan 2008 19:05

sunilUpa wrote:
IMI-IWI, meanwhile, has also entered into partnership with India's state-owned Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) [b]to locally build under licence the TAR-21's 9 mm version - called ZTAR - for use by India's Special Forces parachute regiments. The OFB-produced ZTAR is undergoing user trials.[/b]


Small mistake in the report.
OFB is advertising the Zittara as an Multi-purpose Carbine.i.e. it can fire 3 types of ammo.
5.56x45 mm INSAS & NATO
5.56x30 mm
9x19 mm

More features of the Zittara.
• Weapon capable of being used in an assault rifle role with capability to fire 5.56X45 mm rounds with an accuracy upto 300 m
• Weapon capable of being used in a carbine role with capability to fire 5.56X30 mm and 9X19 mm rounds with an accuracy upto 200 m
• Bull pup configuration making the weapon only 59 cms long and 3 Kgs in weight
• Integrated aiming system – Reflex sight + integral laser pointer.
• Day & Night continuous fighting capability – No zeroing needed.
• Ideal for Close Quarter Battle (CQB) with all calibers owing to all the above features
• Advanced ergonomic design.
• Compact rifle with long barrel – High accuracy.
• Rear center of gravity - Comfort in shooting and holding – Improved hit probability.
• Appropriate for right or left-hand shooter
• Interchangeability of barrel and magazine for both calibers
• Advanced sighting system attached directly to barrel.
• Adjustment of optical system for continuous day & night fighting.

A Sharma
BRFite
Posts: 1141
Joined: 20 May 2003 11:31

Postby A Sharma » 15 Jan 2008 01:50

Rs 12k-cr artillery boost for Army?

As for the derailed modernisation of the seven Para-SF (Special Forces) and three Para-SF (airborne) battalions, tasked with conducting clandestine operations deep behind enemy lines, Gen Kapoor said, "It has come on track now. The Cabinet Committee on Security cleared it just a week to 10 days ago."

Similarly, the list of around 40 specialised weapons and other equipment for the special forces — including TAR-21 Tavor assault rifles and M4A1 carbines, all-terrain multi-utility vehicles and GPS navigation systems, laser range-finders and combat free-fall parachutes — are being sourced from countries like US, Israel, France and Sweden under an initial Rs 700-crore plan.

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3397
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Postby Aditya G » 15 Jan 2008 20:38

What is Para SF (Airborne)? There was Para and Para (SF) only when I last heard.

A Sharma wrote:Rs 12k-cr artillery boost for Army?

As for the derailed modernisation of the seven Para-SF (Special Forces) and three Para-SF (airborne) battalions, tasked with conducting clandestine operations deep behind enemy lines, Gen Kapoor said, "It has come on track now. The Cabinet Committee on Security cleared it just a week to 10 days ago."

Similarly, the list of around 40 specialised weapons and other equipment for the special forces — including TAR-21 Tavor assault rifles and M4A1 carbines, all-terrain multi-utility vehicles and GPS navigation systems, laser range-finders and combat free-fall parachutes — are being sourced from countries like US, Israel, France and Sweden under an initial Rs 700-crore plan.

Surya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5034
Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31

Postby Surya » 15 Jan 2008 20:44

A certain General tried to make all paras into SF -

The ones who hhave not are probably being referred to as airborne

The whole SF thing is a mess. And till itis pulled out of para regiment - I have serious doubts on some of the so called SF

Surya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5034
Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31

Postby Surya » 15 Jan 2008 20:59

How many SF battalions are there according to MOD??

Kakarat
BRFite
Posts: 1867
Joined: 26 Jan 2005 13:59

Postby Kakarat » 15 Jan 2008 21:17

Surya wrote:How many SF battalions are there according to MOD??


http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORC ... chute.html

Surya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5034
Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31

Postby Surya » 15 Jan 2008 21:24

Thanks Karkarat

What I meant was is there a MOD official page listing the SF bns?
Last edited by Surya on 02 Apr 2008 01:42, edited 1 time in total.

rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 1158
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Postby rkhanna » 15 Jan 2008 23:21

assault rifles and M4A1 carbines


Why are we buying M4 Rifles.. IMO its a really bad choice and the for the money we are going to be paying for them we could get superior Sig or HK Carbines for the same or a little more money. Most countries that use the M4 Rifle are in the process of finding replacements. The shortcommings of the M4 have been highly documented in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Also do we even get the SOPMOD kit?

rohitvats
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7690
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Location: Jatland

Postby rohitvats » 16 Jan 2008 08:15

M4??...The US Army itself is evaluating various other options like HK416, FN SCAR ans HK XM8. From Wikipedia:

In July 2007, the US Army announced a limited competition between the M4 carbine, FN SCAR, HK416, and the previously-shelved HK XM8. Ten examples of each of the four competitors were involved. Each weapon was fired for 6,000 rounds in an "extreme dust environment." The purpose of the shootoff was for assessing future needs, not to select a replacement for the M4. The XM8 scored the best, with only 127 stoppages in 60,000 total rounds, the MK16 SCAR Light had 226 stoppages, while the HK416 had 233 stoppages. The M4 carbine scored "significantly worse" than the rest of the field with 882 stoppages.

rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 1158
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Postby rkhanna » 16 Jan 2008 13:30

M4??...The US Army itself is evaluating various other options like HK416, FN SCAR ans HK XM8. From Wikipedia


Actually some units like Delta Force and forward deployed SEAL Units have already started buying the HK416 till the pentagon can get its act together.

Simply put the M4 may do as a self defence weapon for tank crews and such but its a suckie SpecOps weapon. The HK-416 also cost the same amount as the M4.

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7837
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Postby Rakesh » 17 Jan 2008 05:00

Surya wrote:Thanks Karkarat

What I meant was is there a MOD official page listing the SF bns?

Subra


Have you not visited the official Parachute Regiment website? I have not come across any official MOD page listing the SF Btns.

http://www.indianparachuteregiment.kar.nic.in/units.htm

rohitvats
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7690
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Location: Jatland

Postby rohitvats » 17 Jan 2008 08:28

There is a lik to Bharat Rakshak from the Parachute Regiment website :eek: :eek: :eek: . We sure have come long way.

ssmitra
BRFite
Posts: 134
Joined: 24 Mar 2004 12:31
Location: Punjab
Contact:

Postby ssmitra » 17 Jan 2008 23:49

rkhanna wrote:
M4??...The US Army itself is evaluating various other options like HK416, FN SCAR ans HK XM8. From Wikipedia


Actually some units like Delta Force and forward deployed SEAL Units have already started buying the HK416 till the pentagon can get its act together.

Simply put the M4 may do as a self defence weapon for tank crews and such but its a suckie SpecOps weapon. The HK-416 also cost the same amount as the M4.


In July 2007, the US Army announced a limited competition between the M4 carbine, FN SCAR, HK416, and the previously-shelved HK XM8. Ten examples of each of the four competitors were involved. Each weapon was fired for 6,000 rounds in an "extreme dust environment." The purpose of the shootoff was for assessing future needs, not to select a replacement for the M4. [2][3] The XM8 scored the best, with only 127 stoppages in 60,000 total rounds, the MK16 SCAR Light had 226 stoppages, while the HK416 had 233 stoppages. The M4 carbine scored "significantly worse" than the rest of the field with 882 stoppages.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/12/a ... st_071217/

isn't there an army evaluation unit or something which should be looking into these results.

On top of these there are still other choices like the SIG552, AN-92 and AEK-971

I think the FNSCAR-H and the AEK971 can even take AK magazines

A Sharma
BRFite
Posts: 1141
Joined: 20 May 2003 11:31

Postby A Sharma » 17 Mar 2008 19:12

FROM PIB

Indian Air Force’s special force ‘Garud’ conducted a week long joint exercise with the National Security Guards named ‘Black Eagle – I’. The exercise was conducted in two phases from 07 Mar 08 to 14 Mar 08. The first phase was conducted at Garud Regimental Training Centre (GRTC) and the second phase was conducted at NSG Force Headquarters at Manesar. The aim of the exercise was to develop compatibility between the Special Forces on each other’s tactics, techniques and procedures and hone their collective skills for special missions. The exercise cultiminated with a capability demonstration by joint forces at NSG Manesar on 14 Mar 08. This demonstration was witnessed by the Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal FH Major and Director General of National Security Guards Shri Jyoti Krishan Dutt IPS. Senior officers from IAF and NSG were also present during the occasion

rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 1158
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Postby rkhanna » 01 Apr 2008 20:16

SPG to raise a dedicated Counter Sniper Unit (CSU)



Sources in the home ministry said that the new unit will more or less be modelled on the lines of RedOwl project of the US military which has had success against snipers. This unit, along with the proposed air wing within the SPG, will enhance the capabilities of the elite force which observed its 23rd Raising Day on Monday, they added


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/New_SPG_unit_to_combat_snipers/rssarticleshow/2915574.cms

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9951
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Postby sum » 01 Apr 2008 21:48

This unit, along with the proposed air wing within the SPG, will enhance the capabilities of the elite force which observed its 23rd Raising Day on Monday, they added

What is this air wing about?Never heard any mention of this earlier?

rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 1158
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Postby rkhanna » 02 Apr 2008 00:01

sum wrote:
This unit, along with the proposed air wing within the SPG, will enhance the capabilities of the elite force which observed its 23rd Raising Day on Monday, they added

What is this air wing about?Never heard any mention of this earlier?


Actually the Internet Article is only half of what got printed in the newspaper today (Mumbai Ed. Pg 13).

The New helo unit was only one of the new Info in the Article. (Apart from the CSU being raised).

The Article also claims that the SPG is responsible for 3 layers of security around its principles. The innermost (Proximity) is Provided by the SPG , the second layer is provided by a Unit called the Special Duty Group (SDG) and the third layer is manned by local police with Co-ordination with IB.

This is the First time i have ever heard of SDG or it even mentioned. There is ZERO info or even mention of this Unit anywhere on the net. Is it integral to the SPG? (Like SAG/SRG to the NSG) or is it a completely different independent unit?.

Could these guys in Blue Nomex Overalls that have been turning up in pics lately be SDG?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47305&d=1206816208

rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 1158
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Postby rkhanna » 02 Apr 2008 00:25

BTW..the Article mentions that the CSU will be set up with the RedOwl Project like the Americans have..

This is the RedOwl System (kinda like a WRL for Gunshots)



The RedOwl is a robotic head that looks more like a PowerPoint projector than a sharpshooter's worst enemy. But don't let its Circuit City appearance fool you: Controlled by a laptop-wielding soldier, the RedOwl's superior senses can read a nametag from across a football field and identify the make and model of a rifle fired a mile away simply by analyzing the sound of the distant blast. And soon it could be putting its powers to use in Iraq.


http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2 ... ar-snipers

Robot Enhanced Detection Outpost with Lasers, can detect and locate snipers and mortars on the very first shot fired at personnel or vehicles.

REDOWL is a remote, deployable sensor suite designed to provide early warning information, gunshot detection, intelligence, surveillance and targeting capabilities to military forces and government agencies.



http://www.biomimetic-systems.com/PR_3_10_05.html

hnair
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3723
Joined: 03 May 2006 01:31
Location: Trivandrum

Postby hnair » 02 Apr 2008 00:44

What happens if the insurgents use pilfered American weapons/rounds to jam the system? Will the system ignore the tune of such a round/weapon? I see a market for Lord of War types and some quartermasters with money problems :P

I thought SPG always had counter sniping units? Maybe this is some technological upgrades.

rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 1158
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Postby rkhanna » 02 Apr 2008 04:22

the system ignore the tune of such a round/weapon?


No the system is designed to detect and identify all kinds of calibre of bullets. The point is that a Counter Sniper Unit has completely different training and objectives than a Sniper Team providing cover fire. A CSU reacts to Hostile Snipers after they have already taken a shot. A sniper team tries to weed out threats to take a pre-emtive shot.


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 43 guests