Discussion on Indian Special Forces

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A Sharma
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Postby A Sharma » 21 Apr 2008 18:30

Special Forces being increased, upgraded

In all the battles and conflicts that India has faced since Independence, the brave and silent Special Forces warriors have performed daredevil exploits, only to withdraw into anonymity once the job was done.

It was the men of the Special Forces who stopped Pakistani armoured vehicles at Mannawar Tawi in Chamb in 1965 and again in the 1971 Bangladesh campaign took part in the Tangail airdrop, being among the first to race to Dhaka. The army's 'Paras' also won battalion theatre honours for evicting Pakistani regulars from Mushkoh valley during Kargil war.

Now, these units are expected to be upgraded in the next two years. The armed forces are also pushing the government to raise more Special forces battalions and arm them with specialised weaponry.

The army, which is currently in the midst of expanding its special forces, wants their strength to be increased from the present almost 5,000 comprising five battalions, to about 15,000 men in 14 battalions, officials in the force said.

The government has so far sanctioned the army to go ahead with doubling the size of its special forces to 10 battalions, but the army now wants to take it to 14.

Similarly, the Navy too wants to double the strength of its Marine Commando Force (MARCOS) from the present 2,000 to 4,000. The IAF also wants to expand its newly-raised Garud Force from its current authorised strength of 1,080 personnel.

The expansion of the Special forces ran into rough weather soon after the government cleared raising the force levels as New Delhi faced teething problems in acquiring specialised weaponry for them from Israel and the US.

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Postby Rahul M » 21 May 2008 22:11

what is the sanskrit motto on the NSG insignia ??
link

can't read it.

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Postby ParGha » 23 May 2008 20:29

Rahul M wrote:what is the sanskrit motto on the NSG insignia ??
link

can't read it.


"Something Ka Vinash" (Vanquish Something), perhaps?

Incidentally it seems to be an unofficial motto, as they do have an official motto, as can be seen here: http://www.nsg.gov.in/DG0907.htm but there again, it is obscured by the fact that the top-level modifiers on the devanagri script seems to have been squished. Only the third and last word, "Suraksha" (Security/Safeguarding/Protection etc) can be made out with certainty.

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Postby khukri » 24 May 2008 03:54

ParGha wrote:
Rahul M wrote:what is the sanskrit motto on the NSG insignia ??
link

can't read it.


"Something Ka Vinash" (Vanquish Something), perhaps?

Incidentally it seems to be an unofficial motto, as they do have an official motto, as can be seen here: http://www.nsg.gov.in/DG0907.htm but there again, it is obscured by the fact that the top-level modifiers on the devanagri script seems to have been squished. Only the third and last word, "Suraksha" (Security/Safeguarding/Protection etc) can be made out with certainty.

Sarvatra sarvotam suraksha - Always Above All Security

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Postby Rahul M » 24 May 2008 03:56

any idea about the motto on the trishul symbol ??

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Postby CalvinH » 24 May 2008 06:00

khukri wrote:
ParGha wrote:
Rahul M wrote:what is the sanskrit motto on the NSG insignia ??
link

can't read it.


"Something Ka Vinash" (Vanquish Something), perhaps?

Incidentally it seems to be an unofficial motto, as they do have an official motto, as can be seen here: http://www.nsg.gov.in/DG0907.htm but there again, it is obscured by the fact that the top-level modifiers on the devanagri script seems to have been squished. Only the third and last word, "Suraksha" (Security/Safeguarding/Protection etc) can be made out with certainty.

Sarvatra sarvotam suraksha - Always Above All Security


It means Best Security Everywhere (Sarvatra- Everywhere, sarvottam- Best, Suraksha- Security)

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Postby khukri » 24 May 2008 08:04

CalvinH wrote:It means Best Security Everywhere (Sarvatra- Everywhere, sarvottam- Best, Suraksha- Security)

I stand corrected - my last serious brush with sanskrit was many moons ago!

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Postby Singha » 24 May 2008 09:07

TOI has photo of a brunei dignatary at parachute regiment center trying
out a Tavor with UBGL and reflex sight. its a fairly bulky piece of eqpt,
not as small like a MP-x.

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Postby ranganathan » 24 May 2008 10:55

I thought brunei was an islamic country? Why are we showing them israeli goods?

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Postby rkhanna » 24 May 2008 17:47

TOI has photo of a brunei dignatary at parachute regiment center trying
out a Tavor with UBGL and reflex sight. its a fairly bulky piece of eqpt,
not as small like a MP-x


The TAR-21 and the M-TAR (AKA Zitarra) are two different guns. The TAR-21 is a Bullpup Assault rifle and is not supposed to be in the same class as the MP-x SMGs.. The ZITARA however can be compared.

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Brunei was an islamic country?

Postby Paul_in_Brunei » 24 May 2008 19:14

ranganathan wrote:I thought brunei was an islamic country? Why are we showing them israeli goods?

Yes, Brunei is an Islamic country but they allow others to follows their faiths. There are 2 temples and 6-8 churches. Not every Islamic country is like our Jehadi neighbours.

The King of Brunei has the money to buy and who cares if an Isreali TAR-21. He is lot fitter than few officers in the para regiment and he is almost 62. We watched the news in Brunei and thought that few of our officers need to shed those rice bags they are carrying :) :)

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Re: Brunei was an islamic country?

Postby shiv » 24 May 2008 19:56

[quote="Paul_in_Brunei"][/quote]

The name Paul in Brunei needs to be changed to remove the "in Brunei" part. I will be doing that soon - since you will not be able to do it yourself.

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Postby p_saggu » 24 May 2008 21:00

Paul,
welcome to BRF

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Postby Rahul M » 24 May 2008 21:10

Shiv, I think there already is a Paul in BRF.
you may have to think up other names.

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Postby Ajay K » 08 Jun 2008 17:32

Folks, meet the LTTE special forces!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yVUaMkj ... re=related

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Postby Raja Bose » 09 Jun 2008 00:08

ummm....what next? we start calling puke fidayeen squads 'special forces'? :roll:

This clip is so clearly a staged video (looks like a cheaper version of those old tamil action movies). And why are the LTTE jehadis turning over and yelling to each other despite having them nice throat mikes? :lol:

Ajay K wrote:Folks, meet the LTTE special forces!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yVUaMkj ... re=related

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Juggi G » 19 Jun 2008 14:29

Defense News
Indian Army To Test Spike Missiles
By Vivek Raghuvanshi
Published: 18 June 11:57 EDT (07:57 GMT)

NEW DELHI - The Indian Army will start user trials next week of Rafael's Spike anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) in the deserts of Rajasthan, the upper reaches of Jammu and Kashmir, and the hilly terrain of Uttarkhand state. Rafael, the missile's Israeli manufacturer, will bear the full expense of the Trials.

The tests are part of the Army's process of procuring 550 ATGMs under a December 2006 global tender worth $37.5 million, which included bids from MBDA, Raytheon and Rosoboronexport. During technical evaluation in January, the Army short-listed only Rafael's Spike, finding no other ATGM Suitable for the Special Forces' Needs.

The Spike is a lightweight (9-kilogram), anti-armor, fire-and-forget missile for operation at short ranges of 50 to 800 meters. It can be fired in less then 30 seconds from the off position, which was one of the requirements of the Indian Army. The missile can hit targets behind earthen walls as it travels in a trajectory.

The Spike's short range will enable the special forces to operate from confined spaces, so operators can take firing positions in bunkers, buildings, etc.

The lightweight ATGM also can be shoulder-fired.


The Indian Army also has firmed up its requirements for more than 3,000 new-generation ATGMs to arm its T-72 and T-90 tanks and BMP-II infantry combat vehicles. The need to procure the new missiles has arisen because problems with the Nag ATGM, developed by India's Defence Research and Development Organisation, have delayed its induction for more than 10 years.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gaurav_S » 19 Jun 2008 15:29

Though Spike is family of fire and forget missiles. I cant find one which has range of 50 to 800 meters. Seems like army is after Gill version with the range of upto 2.5Km.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Kakarat » 19 Jun 2008 16:00

gauravsurati wrote:Though Spike is family of fire and forget missiles. I cant find one which has range of 50 to 800 meters. Seems like army is after Gill version with the range of upto 2.5Km.


Spike SR

Image

Features:

Range: 50 - 800 meters
Fire and Forge
Operation from confined spaces
Two-stage warhead
Easy target lock-on
Lightweight system (9kg)
Maintenance Free

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby VinodTK » 29 Jun 2008 19:17

Not the right subject to be posted here.
Already posted in the internal securities thread.
Last edited by Rahul M on 29 Jun 2008 19:21, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Off Topic.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Abhisham » 29 Jun 2008 19:38

The Indian Army also has firmed up its requirements for more than 3,000 new-generation ATGMs to arm its T-72 and T-90 tanks and BMP-II infantry combat vehicles. The need to procure the new missiles has arisen because problems with the Nag ATGM, developed by India's Defence Research and Development Organisation, have delayed its induction for more than 10 years.


Well this doesn't make sense. BMP's are getting Konkurs-M / T-90 already has the INVAR both with production at BDL. Infantry will probably get the Milan-2 and is already using Shipon/84mm RCL for close range use. Nag is to undergo user trials and will be used on dedicated anti tank platform (LCH / NAMICA). We have bought a small number of Kornets but with thermobaric warheads primarily for bunker busting. Am I missing something??

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 11 Jul 2008 19:45

Marcos from a recent Demo in Vishakapatnam

Image

Image

Image

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby A Sharma » 23 Aug 2008 16:46

If looks could kill

The Special Protection Group (SPG)—that exclusively protects the prime minister, Congress President Sonia Gandhi and former prime ministers—unveiled a new sub-unit on Independence Day.

As its 'principal' (bodyguard-speak for the protectee) delivered the traditional address from the ramparts of the Red Fort, the SPG's new counter-assault force stood guard below.
The force is meant to withstand and repel heavy fire assaults even as the SPG's proximate protection whisks the prime minister away to safety. It is equipped with body armour capable of withstanding AK-47 rounds.

The counter-assault force has replaced traditional SPG weapons like the venerable Uzi, MP-5 sub-machine guns and Glock pistols with Belgian arms maker FN Herstal products- the 'Five Seven' pistol, the P-90 submachine gun and FN 2000 Tactical Assault Rifle.

SPG officials say the force, first introduced by the US Secret Service, was specially trained and fielded after threat perceptions of attacks by heavily armed, bulletproof jacket-wearing desperadoes. The 5.7x28 mm armour-piercing ammunition fired by the P-90 pistol can deal with such threats.

In the pipeline are special armoured cars for the force. The SPG will get its own wings-four of 12 VVIP triple-engined helicopters being contracted from Italy's Augusta-Westland at a cost of Rs 110 crore each. Who said protecting the chief executive came cheap.

—Sandeep Unnithan

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 23 Aug 2008 17:25

If you check out the Link above in the Tiny pic the Assaulter at the Back has a FN-2000 and the one to the front (left) has the P-90

Time to Update the BR page on the SPG?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Sid » 23 Aug 2008 17:54

rkhanna wrote:If you check out the Link above in the Tiny pic the Assaulter at the Back has a FN-2000 and the one to the front (left) has the P-90

Time to Update the BR page on the SPG?


wow, good find.

Our SPG guys really live in luxury when it comes to selecting weapons. Everyone one had its own type, that too from top of the line :shock:

If our Para and Marcos had such luxury in selecting weapons they alone could win a small country!! :twisted:

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Sid » 23 Aug 2008 17:59

rkhanna wrote:Marcos from a recent Demo in Vishakapatnam



I think not all these pics shows Marcos. Few pics are from army-commandos, which took part in that exercise too. They wore the same black-outfit.

Judging from the equipment only the center pic is Marcos.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Jagan » 23 Aug 2008 18:10

download the digital version

Image
Image

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby svinayak » 23 Aug 2008 19:19

Other nations dont put such information in the front page news.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby khukri » 23 Aug 2008 19:25

rkhanna wrote:If you check out the Link above in the Tiny pic the Assaulter at the Back has a FN-2000 and the one to the front (left) has the P-90

Time to Update the BR page on the SPG?


Both weapons by the way - are also in use by the Paki's

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ramana » 23 Aug 2008 20:31

With all the news about cross training between Indian forces and outsiders, do the Indian special forces have cross training amongst themselves? I am thinking of small units comprised of members from all detachments and see how they perform in exercises. Say unit of 4-6 with members drawn from Army, Airforce and navy units.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Austin » 23 Aug 2008 20:59

Can some one tell me why these SPG guys are not wearing a protective head gear or something similar , they seem to be wearing bullet proof vest and other stuff covering critical areas of body except the head , any specific reason for not doing so ?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 24 Aug 2008 00:02

>>>Both weapons by the way - are also in use by the Paki's<<<


The P-90 was bought on a trial (User Evaluation) bases only. The FN-2000 was bought for their AirForce Base Protection Unit. The SSG generally uses Chinese Type 56s and American M-4 Handouts.

@Austin. About the Headgear. I have seen pictures of the United States secret Service CSU also running around without headgear. This was when i visited DC. CSU in the SS is broken up into two components. One that is active and is visible to the public and the second Component whose task is to ReTake the WhiteHouse incase of an Incident. Those boys however have full SWAT gear.

Helmet comes down to the SOP of the unit. Indian SF and Light Infantry units (specially Jungle) do not wear Helmets. maybe it has something to do with that.


Anyways as an After thought we have so many Small Arms running around India (AKs, INSAS, Tavors , Uzis , MP-5s , P-90s , FN-2000s ) why not standardize. We can cut a ToT deal with FN across the board for the SCAR and P-90 and retain the TAVOR as our bullpup weapon. no?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby khukri » 24 Aug 2008 03:02

rkhanna wrote:
>>>Both weapons by the way - are also in use by the Paki's<<<


The P-90 was bought on a trial (User Evaluation) bases only. The FN-2000 was bought for their AirForce Base Protection Unit. The SSG generally uses Chinese Type 56s and American M-4 Handouts.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_P90

according to Wiki - used by SSG and VIP protection squads

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Re:

Postby Anujan » 24 Aug 2008 04:49

Rahul M wrote:what is the sanskrit motto on the NSG insignia ??
link

can't read it.

Image

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rahul M » 24 Aug 2008 05:07

lakhmic, please check the link in my post. the one under the winged trishul.
do you think it is the same ? looks different to me.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Austin » 24 Aug 2008 09:22

rkhanna , I find it strange that these assault unit have protection almost every where at least the most critical parts are covered , except the head , you have the head totally exposed , at least a headgear would cover most part of it and perhaps on a bad day , will help them live and fight for another day.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Raja Bose » 24 Aug 2008 10:00

I have not seen any sea borne SF wearing helmets in any exercise. Probably they decide against it due to weight considerations and because it is cumbersome to carry since these units jump into the water with full combat load. As compared to regular line units most SF seem to have a more lax attitude towards steelpot type helmets....usually preferring to wear more light weight stuff like those ice hockey helmets worn by the D-boys (or 'controversial' scooter type helmets worn by NSG and others :lol: )

Austin wrote:rkhanna , I find it strange that these assault unit have protection almost every where at least the most critical parts are covered , except the head , you have the head totally exposed , at least a headgear would cover most part of it and perhaps on a bad day , will help them live and fight for another day.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 24 Aug 2008 10:23

seals also seem to wear just a bush hat...

that two man detail could pass off as a american security detail the guy on left
being a grizzled seal team6 type hispanic vet and the african american gent
on the right. knee caps - woo hoo - we are finally going bideshi in creature
comforts.

btw I have seen SS types in all black gear riding in chevy suburbans
behind kilton sahibs car in DC. no headgear just baseball type black caps.
one of them sat in the back looking out of the rear windscreen, two in
the back seats and one in front.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Nayak » 24 Aug 2008 10:28

Wireless ear pieces, cool raybans, shaved head with spiked and dyed mohawk haircut ij a must ja.

Psy-ops values will be enormous.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Austin » 24 Aug 2008 11:05

Weight consideration , in this age and time dont we have a light weight bullet proof helmet built from composite materials and stuff ? or are we still stuck up with WW2 types heavy metal helmet .


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