Discussion on Indian Special Forces

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rasiklal » 01 Jul 2011 10:19

What do you mean by this? All training stems from doctrinal principles.


Doctrine is something quite different, something far loftier. Even if the folks we know use the term to name the wrong thing, something tactical, there is a doctrinal set pf principles that guide every military. The most successful ones are the ones who understand what that doctrine is.
Doctrine is sort of like that word I hate and detest - paradigm. It is a set of beliefs, in the military case, based on axioms about what military force can achieve, how the enemy is likely to respond, and how the enemy is unlikely to respond, what sort of force is likely to achieve a certain outcome and so on...And ultimately this doctrine is also a set of conclusions or justified assumptions about the military options that stem from our nation's economic and social circumstances. Doctrine can also lie at the level of the corps or division either related to the terrain it is deployed in or its role.
For instance the respective doctrines of air warfare of the Soviet/Russian and US air forces differ in terms of their objectives. The USAF plans always to achieve air superiority within the first 24 hours of battle; the Russian AF believes that there is no such thing as air superiority; the battle and the war is always fluid and at no time should resources be tied down in defending way points - air superiority is temporary. This is an offensive military talking, always advancing the front, reasoning that captured or redeemed territory is the most sensible type of base to maintain. It also makes a difference that the US military is not planning to protect its homelands or fight a land battle on its plains. Russians are very different and believe that war can anytime cme home.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Shrinivasan » 18 Jul 2011 04:31

Indian Army has floated a NEW RFI (no qty specified) for a Light Strike Vehicle...This is for the exclusive use of the Para SF.
For transporting Four soldiers (incl driver) with Gross weight of 3T (with 950kg payload), 400km range and 110km top speed.
Armaments provision for 7.6mm machine gun, Milan ATGM, 50Cal heavy MG, Auto Grenade Launchers.
Important requirement is Air Transportable INSIDE a Mi-17/Mi-17(IV) helo and AN32 or IL76 helo (surprise no mention of C130J)
This is not in the BUY INDIAN Category...
What does the IA use currently? Is this related to the increase in # of PARA SF announced recently.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby suryag » 18 Jul 2011 06:14

I think they use gypsy/jonga(i doubt it is in service). Tatas could pitch their land rover for this, Mahindra some version of scorpio ?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Shrinivasan » 19 Jul 2011 01:05

Undie TV Daat Kaam reports that SDRE NSGs lack NVGs and Sniper Rifles..
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/indias-elite-commandos-wait-for-snipers-night-goggles-120285?from=NDTV

Auty wiki showcase the tools of the trade of the NSG with many sniper Rifles... none of them vintage 90s...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Guards

My confusion is compounded by the fact that the article is by Nitin Gokhale who is not the usual DDM which passes for defense correspondents in Desi rags. His points are very pertinent...
India's elite commando force, was forced to battle with outdated equipment and limited training.
The list of equipment required to modernise the commandos has been paralysed by red tape. 150 new German-made sniper rifles asked for in 2009 have yet to be bought...So our commandos use vintage rifles from the 1990s.
Even smaller and cheaper items - like helmets with night vision devices - have not been ordered. Commandos expected to safeguard the country use helmets that are 20 years old. Equally shameful - fire-proof dungarees for commandos have yet to be ordered.


I am surprised by this as even RR has received new Sniper rifles in the 2009-2010. Desh ordered Sniper rifles from Israel and not from Germany. Is Nitin confusing NSG with Mumbai police Force 1. He talks about limited training for NSG!!! they are probabbly the best trained in Desh. Gurus please explain.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gaur » 19 Jul 2011 01:14

^^
Why the confusion? There are ample footage of NSG using PSG1 during 26/11. The article is about the problems NSG is facing in procuring sniper rifles and other equipment which were ordered afterwards.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Shrinivasan » 19 Jul 2011 09:30

Gaur wrote:Why the confusion? There are ample footage of NSG using PSG1 during 26/11. The article is about the problems NSG is facing in procuring sniper rifles and other equipment which were ordered afterwards.

The confusion is Nitin's Assertion that NSG is having 90s vintage Sniper Rifles... I thought they have the latest and the greatest acquired recently. ditto for NVG!!!

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby gakakkad » 19 Jul 2011 09:41

^^^ nitin gokhale is a jernailist. the article is usual DDM crap. NSG's are among the best para military cammondo's in the world. While they surely cannot be compared with MARCOS or special forces they are quite decent for their business. I dont think using a 90's sniper can be a problem. Snipers don't get upgraded every year. In world war 2 many snipers used the guns their parents had used in WW1 .uNKIL STILL USES m 40 FROM THE VIETNAM ERA.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby gakakkad » 19 Jul 2011 09:43

Problem for NSG lies in the logistics and the fact that they have to act chowkidar's to very impotent persons .

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Shrinivasan » 19 Jul 2011 10:35

gakakkad wrote:Problem for NSG lies in the logistics and the fact that they have to act chowkidar's to very impotent persons .

Isn't the chowkidaari done by SPG and not the NSG?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Shrinivasan » 19 Jul 2011 10:38

gakakkad wrote:I dont think using a 90's sniper can be a problem. Snipers don't get upgraded every year. In world war 2 many snipers used the guns their parents had used in WW1 .uNKIL STILL USES m 40 FROM THE VIETNAM ERA.

Using a well proven Albeit 30yr old Sniper Rifle is definitely not a problem, new rifle entails new logistics, training, familiarization, the whole nine-yards. Even using a rifle of the 70s is not a problem AS LONG AS THE USERS ARE HAPPY WITH IT. Nitin made it sound as if the usage of these older rifles is a major handicap. This could even be a Lifafa article. Anyway thanks for your response.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Nikhil T » 19 Jul 2011 10:48

Shrinivasan wrote:
gakakkad wrote:Problem for NSG lies in the logistics and the fact that they have to act chowkidar's to very impotent persons .

Isn't the chowkidaari done by SPG and not the NSG?



SPG guards the PM, ex-PMs (for 5 years since holding the post),Advani , Mrs. G, Amul baby Rahul, the Vaderas.

NSG (Special Rangers Group only afaik) guards the X/Y/Z category people - Lalus, the Mayawatis, and the Abdullahs.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Shrinivasan » 19 Jul 2011 11:25

Nikhil T wrote:
Shrinivasan wrote:Isn't the chowkidaari done by SPG and not the NSG?
SPG guards the PM, ex-PMs (for 5 years since holding the post),Advani , Mrs. G, Amul baby Rahul, the Vaderas.
NSG (Special Rangers Group only afaik) guards the X/Y/Z category people - Lalus, the Mayawatis, and the Abdullahs.

Thanks Nikhil, still the assets required to protect these bafoons would be less than the former category. I think Laloo is off the NSG list. We have people like Thackeray, CMs like Modi, Jayalalitha etc and Ex CMs like Karunanidhi, Naidu, Amrinder Singh who have different levels of NSG protection (Z, Z+ etc)

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby garytrek » 19 Jul 2011 13:48

I think the news has not been reported correctly.
NSG can easily use the 90's technology Sniper rifles. They have also demonstrated usage of Sniper rifles in recent past too.
I think the current need is of additional numbers which I think is a genuine demand for the latest technology. If you are buying today, then would obliviously buy which is the latest.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Shrinivasan » 19 Jul 2011 13:51

garytrek wrote:I think the news has not been reported correctly.
... hence they are called DDM :rotfl:

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby tsarkar » 19 Jul 2011 16:29

The article is correct, when seen in context. I have found Nitin Gokhale to be a very balanced journalist, who understands military matters quite well.
Shrinivasan wrote:I am surprised by this as even RR has received new Sniper rifles in the 2009-2010.
RR procurement is under MoD while NSG is under MHA. MoD equipment cant be used by MHA.
Shrinivasan wrote:Desh ordered Sniper rifles from Israel and not from Germany.
Only MoD ordered Israeli rifles for RR battalion equipment upgrade.
Shrinivasan wrote:He talks about limited training for NSG!!! they are probabbly the best trained in Desh. Gurus please explain.
NSG is staffed by IA deputees and CPO/State Police deputees. The quality of the latter is not up to the mark, and to maintain the expanded force, NSG has to make do with them.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby gakakkad » 19 Jul 2011 16:37

ideally the Pandus in NSG should be chowkidaring the impotents and Army deputees the important stuff.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rahul M » 19 Jul 2011 16:39

nitin gokhale is not your vanilla DDM, he is a decent defence journo. the most likely scenario that matches the article is that we do not have enough numbers to cater for NSG's post 26/11 expansion.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Shrinivasan » 19 Jul 2011 19:07

Rahul M wrote:nitin gokhale is not your vanilla DDM, he is a decent defence journo. the most likely scenario that matches the article is that we do not have enough numbers to cater for NSG's post 26/11 expansion.

Which is what I have noticed in his reporting. Even in his interview of ACM Naik, his questions were precise ad relevant. He doesn't hestitate to bring out the tough questions. I noticed in one place where ACM was strugling for a name (NE AFB) he prompted him, but this NSG article baffled me. Anyway, I pray all is well with the NSG and this is pure Psychops.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Raja Bose » 19 Jul 2011 19:32

tsarkar wrote:NSG is staffed by IA deputees and CPO/State Police deputees. The quality of the latter is not up to the mark, and to maintain the expanded force, NSG has to make do with them.


Any data to back that up? AFAIK, there has been no compromise in quality. Also the duties of the CPO vs. IA members (SRG vs SAG) are different so the question of 'quality' must be seen in that context.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Nikhil T » 20 Jul 2011 21:56

NSG secures 300 high value targets across India

2-3 key points to note:

The National Security Guard, India's [ Images ] most potent commando force, has finetuned its operational readiness and official procedures following the 26/11 terror attacks on Mumbai [ Images ], says RS Chauhan

India's elite commando force, the National Security Guard, has identified over 300 high value targets and high value assets across the country that can come under a terrorist attack.

In an exercise that has lasted over 18 months in the post-26/11 period, NSG teams have done detailed reconnaissance and review of security arrangements at these places.

Some of the high value targets are well-known: the Bhaba Atomic Research Centre, several atomic power plants, the Reliance [ Get Quote ] refinery in Jamnagar and ports in Mumbai, Kochi and Chennai for example.

Others, however, are not so obvious. The less conspicuous ones include big, glitzy malls, railway stations, important institutions and iconic buildings.

After exhaustive onsite inspection, NSG teams have evolved preventive as well as post-attack counter-measures for each of these identified sites. Local authorities including police and fire brigade are on board in these plans.

Following the three-day operation during the 26/11 terror attacks in Mumbai, the NSG troopers had difficulty in finding their way into the five-star hotels. Drawing lessons from that operation, the NSG has made sure that 'walk-through' models of all the 300-odd high-value targets and assets are ready with the respective authorities.

Meanwhile, apart from the main base at Manesar near New Delhi [ Images ], four NSG hubs have been established at Marol in Mumbai, Nedunkundram in Chennai, Trimulghery in Hyderabad and Badu (20 acres) in Kolkata [ Images ] that are fully operational now. All the hubs have 250 combat personnel in operational readiness all the time. For instance, following the July 13 Mumbai serial blasts, the NSG personnel from the Mumbai hub were at the three sites within half an hour of the blasts.

In Delhi, the main combat task force had assumed the 'tarmac readiness' posture. In other words, 150 fully-equipped and armed NSG troopers were on board an IL-76 transport plane ready to fly out to Mumbai. Of course, within an hour after the blasts, it was clear that these NSG troopers were not needed in Mumbai this time.

One more important change after 26/11 has come in the form of quick availability of an aircraft. NSG sources say if the IL-76 which belongs to the RAW's Aviation Research Centre was not available that day, the DG NSG and other designated officers have been empowered to requisition any civil aircraft from registered operators in the interest of public safety.

Overall, the NSG has finetuned its operational readiness and official procedures. However, there are several critical shortcomings in equipping and upgrading India's most potent commando force.

That, you will read about in Part II.

To be concluded

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Shrinivasan » 21 Jul 2011 10:32

Nikhil T wrote:India's elite commando force, the National Security Guard, has identified over 300 high value targets and high value assets across the country that can come under a terrorist attack.

After exhaustive onsite inspection, NSG teams have evolved preventive as well as post-attack counter-measures for each of these identified sites. Local authorities including police and fire brigade are on board in these plans.

Meanwhile, apart from the main base at Manesar near New Delhi [ Images ], four NSG hubs have been established at Marol in Mumbai, Nedunkundram in Chennai, Trimulghery in Hyderabad and Badu (20 acres) in Kolkata [ Images ] that are fully operational now.
All the hubs have 250 combat personnel in operational readiness all the time. For instance, following the July 13 Mumbai serial blasts, the NSG personnel from the Mumbai hub were at the three sites within half an hour of the blasts.

In Delhi, the main combat task force had assumed the 'tarmac readiness' posture. In other words, 150 fully-equipped and armed NSG troopers were on board an IL-76 transport plane ready to fly out to Mumbai. Of course, within an hour after the blasts, it was clear that these NSG troopers were not needed in Mumbai this time.

One more important change after 26/11 has come in the form of quick availability of an aircraft. NSG sources say if the IL-76 which belongs to the RAW's Aviation Research Centre was not available that day, the DG NSG and other designated officers have been empowered to requisition any civil aircraft from registered operators in the interest of public safety.

Overall, the NSG has finetuned its operational readiness and official procedures. However, there are several critical shortcomings in equipping and upgrading India's most potent commando force.

A good development indeed. Next step would be to get the intelligence apparatus fine-tuned to avoided any more 26/11s.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Anuj A » 23 Jul 2011 02:40

Check out this pic:
Image

I think they are IA Para SF (Tavors, I know MARCOs have them but think this is IA). They look really professional- tactical stances and weapon discipline. And utilising Dhruv for this kind of mission ( hostage rescue) is a perfect fit! + is it just me or does the Operator next to the one carrying the hostage look like he has a shotgun slung behind his back?

Any other pics/details of this ex or similar?

+ why are Indian SOFs so secretive- very little is known of them and they don't seem to put on as many public displays as their foreign counterparts. (I suppose it ensures operational security, and you would prefer it this way to the other extreme- PAK SSG).

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gaur » 23 Jul 2011 02:59

Abingdonboy wrote:http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/920/q19e.jpg
I think they are IA Para SF (Tavors, I know MARCOs have them but think this is IA). They look really professional- tactical stances and weapon discipline. And utilising Dhruv for this kind of mission ( hostage rescue) is a perfect fit! + is it just me or does the Operator next to the one carrying the hostage look like he has a shotgun slung behind his back?

Any other pics/details of this ex or similar?

+ why are Indian SOFs so secretive- very little is known of them and they don't seem to put on as many public displays as their foreign counterparts. (I suppose it ensures operational security, and you would prefer it this way to the other extreme- PAK SSG).

What do you mean by "tactical stance"? I am curious because, just as far as this pic is concerned, everyone in IA walks and handles weapon in this way only. :-)

Regarding pics..if you are looking for hollywood like pics, then there are some available of Garuds and Marcos (only recently) but not many of Para SF. IA is not very PR savvy.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby suryag » 23 Jul 2011 03:17

one of the "desktop background" class pics of the dhruv

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Anuj A » 23 Jul 2011 03:29

Gaur wrote:
Abingdonboy wrote:http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/920/q19e.jpg
I think they are IA Para SF (Tavors, I know MARCOs have them but think this is IA). They look really professional- tactical stances and weapon discipline. And utilising Dhruv for this kind of mission ( hostage rescue) is a perfect fit! + is it just me or does the Operator next to the one carrying the hostage look like he has a shotgun slung behind his back?

Any other pics/details of this ex or similar?

+ why are Indian SOFs so secretive- very little is known of them and they don't seem to put on as many public displays as their foreign counterparts. (I suppose it ensures operational security, and you would prefer it this way to the other extreme- PAK SSG).

What do you mean by "tactical stance"? I am curious because, just as far as this pic is concerned, everyone in IA walks and handles weapon in this way only. :-)

Regarding pics..if you are looking for hollywood like pics, then there are some available of Garuds and Marcos (only recently) but not many of Para SF. IA is not very PR savvy.

Yes they do, I suppose with the Tavor they just look extra tactical- if that is possible.


I suppose they just look very impressive and I am glad to see the back of AK and introduction of new gear.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gaur » 23 Jul 2011 03:58

Abingdonboy wrote:Yes they do, I suppose with the Tavor they just look extra tactical- if that is possible.

What is tactical and how do you look more of it? :)


I suppose they just look very impressive and I am glad to see the back of AK and introduction of new gear.

Yes, they are impressive and they certainly look it. :) Anyway, AK (any variant) was never a standard rifle of Parachute Regiment. However, for various reasons, they did use AKMs in the the past CT ops and will continue to use them in the future (regardless of the availability of other rifles).

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 23 Jul 2011 06:29

most of us indians have grown up on the image of SWAT teams in movies, for lack of any domestic content until recent years. so all that "tactical gear" like shoulder mikes, BPJ, knee and elbow pads, maglite torch below barrel, snipers on some roof, baseball cap worn ulta, cool shades and the team drills is imprinted into our memory. and the physique needs to be like vin diesel or michelle rodriguez :mrgreen:

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Shrinivasan » 23 Jul 2011 11:32

Singha wrote:most of us indians have grown up on the image of SWAT teams in movies, for lack of any domestic content until recent years. so all that "tactical gear" like shoulder mikes, BPJ, knee and elbow pads, maglite torch below barrel, snipers on some roof, baseball cap worn ulta, cool shades and the team drills is imprinted into our memory. and the physique needs to be like vin diesel or michelle rodriguez :mrgreen:
...inspite of all this SDRE Para, NSG, Marcos get the job done!!!

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rahul M » 23 Jul 2011 12:29

Anuj A wrote:Check out this pic:
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/920/q19e.jpg

I think they are IA Para SF ...........

where did you get this ?
this is kolkata maidan, you can see victoria memorial and some of the esplanade office buildings in the background. which demo is this ?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ASPuar » 23 Jul 2011 13:36

Ugh.. this is terrible... an NSG Commando injured in 26/11.. the government doesnt even want to pay for his treatment which he will require for the rest of his life. Yet there is money for 2G, 3G, CWG and godknowswhatelseji...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7ABLJ-iyYdg/T ... 703735.jpg

Sickening.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Asit P » 23 Jul 2011 14:19

Rahul M wrote:this is kolkata maidan, you can see victoria memorial and some of the esplanade office buildings in the background. which demo is this ?

Rahul jee, this is Fort William.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Anuj A » 23 Jul 2011 15:33

Singha wrote:most of us indians have grown up on the image of SWAT teams in movies, for lack of any domestic content until recent years. so all that "tactical gear" like shoulder mikes, BPJ, knee and elbow pads, maglite torch below barrel, snipers on some roof, baseball cap worn ulta, cool shades and the team drills is imprinted into our memory. and the physique needs to be like vin diesel or michelle rodriguez :mrgreen:



Yes but the "SWAT TEAM LOOK" isn't just for aesthetics there is actually utility behind elbow/knee pads and ballistic glasses and fixed torches on rifles. But it does seem that Indian forces are moving to this level- recent pics of MARCOs, IAF GUARAD at AI-2009 and IA Para (not SF) in ep10 mission Army. This is only a good thing and makes each individual even more deadly.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Anuj A » 23 Jul 2011 15:38

ASPuar wrote:Ugh.. this is terrible... an NSG Commando injured in 26/11.. the government doesnt even want to pay for his treatment which he will require for the rest of his life. Yet there is money for 2G, 3G, CWG and godknowswhatelseji...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7ABLJ-iyYdg/T ... 703735.jpg

Sickening.

No doubt some low-level, pencil pushing baeuracrat is responsible for this. They can't look at the bigger picture and follow guidelines to the letter without using any initiative. This culture of mindless following and beauacracy needs to be abolished or tragic incidents like this will happen again and again.


The sad thing is, as this is India, I'm not even surprised to hear of this shameful incident.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby D Roy » 23 Jul 2011 15:43

Singapore, Singapore, Singapore.

They have typically done well in this space and collaborate with the Israelis regularly in this realm too. which is why both end up with pretty similar looking stuff. :)

They have a nice LSV (Spider) which can be integrated with a 120 mm mortar (SRAMS).

It's funny however, how a U.S classification (LSV) becomes a marquee.
best example would be of course U.S hull classifications such as LPD, LHD etc becoming industry standard.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 23 Jul 2011 16:09

I have not as yet seen open src pics of NSG using ballistic glass shields for CQB.
http://infos.fncv.com/public/2009/gign- ... iviers.jpg
this french GIGN unit probably preparing to enter a hostile room (the shotgun to blow the hinges off), has the lead guy with shield and very bulky looking BP helmets and face glass.

so it looks like they are after some crazy armed drug dosed guy and not expecting a mobile fight with well trained enemies

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rahul M » 23 Jul 2011 18:42

Asit P wrote:
Rahul M wrote:this is kolkata maidan, you can see victoria memorial and some of the esplanade office buildings in the background. which demo is this ?

Rahul jee, this is Fort William.

yes, I can make out that much. :P

what I wanted to know was when it happened ?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Shrinivasan » 24 Jul 2011 00:02

Rahul M wrote:what I wanted to know was when it happened ?
I was waiting for the original poster to answer you Pooch.. anyway, this was around the world-cup inaugural someone had posted this picture about a Demo. I thought it might be a NSG demo/exercise.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gaur » 24 Jul 2011 00:29

Anuj A wrote:Yes but the "SWAT TEAM LOOK" isn't just for aesthetics there is actually utility behind elbow/knee pads and ballistic glasses and fixed torches on rifles. But it does seem that Indian forces are moving to this level- recent pics of MARCOs, IAF GUARAD at AI-2009 and IA Para (not SF) in ep10 mission Army. This is only a good thing and makes each individual even more deadly.

Getting new equipment is a good thing. Knee/arm pads, goggles and other TFTA stuff also have their uses else they would not have been produce.
Having said that, one should not get carried too much by that. Infantry in general, and SF in particular "like" to travel as light as possible. So, until these TFTA looking items are not absolutely necessary, they are not carried. This is why you would hardly find many operational pics (be it either of Para SF or MARCOS), where such "SWAT looking" items are used. Hell, even helmets are sometimes considered unwanted weight with limited utility in certain situations.
And from what little operational pics I have seen of Western Armies, this applies to them as well (though what applies to them is irrelevant to Indian context).

To be clear, I don't mean to say that new and TFTA equipment should not be bought. Everything has its place in certain situations (like eye protection in Siachen and Rajasthan). I am just saying that lets not get too excited about "SWAT" and "tactical" looks (whatever that may mean).

Anyway, no more blabber by me on this issue. You shared an excellent pic with us..and for that you have my thanks. :)
Last edited by Gaur on 24 Jul 2011 00:52, edited 1 time in total.

Gaur
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gaur » 24 Jul 2011 00:50

Singha wrote:I have not as yet seen open src pics of NSG using ballistic glass shields for CQB.
http://infos.fncv.com/public/2009/gign- ... iviers.jpg
this french GIGN unit probably preparing to enter a hostile room (the shotgun to blow the hinges off), has the lead guy with shield and very bulky looking BP helmets and face glass.

so it looks like they are after some crazy armed drug dosed guy and not expecting a mobile fight with well trained enemies

Yeah. That shield will hardly be able to withstand 9mm. The shields which provide protection from AK round weigh in excess of 20-25 kg.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rahul_r » 24 Jul 2011 04:35

Short documentary on the Tavor and its development.



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