Discussion on Indian Special Forces

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sum
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sum » 02 Jul 2014 13:28

^^ What role can "Phantom unit" perform which SG( and maybe SFF unless SG is the phantom within SFF) doesnt do already?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 02 Jul 2014 14:00

I think you are talking about the QRT (Quick Reaction Team) for countering maritime terrorism on high seas and offshore oil rigs.


AFAIK the QRT out of Bombay is not a dedicated unit and is on rotational basis amongst the Teams. i.e no additional skill set is imparted to the QRT other than its dedicated mission profile during its rotational tenure. CT on High Seas i think is part of regular mission profile outside of Maritime Special Ops during a war.

What I was talking off was some sort of "Elite within the Elite" Cadre specially for a Quasi NEST type operations in a Maritime Environment. But anyways my information is dodgy at best and no point discussing it further.

^^ What role can "Phantom unit" perform which SG( and maybe SFF unless SG is the phantom within SFF) doesnt do already?


SG in my mind would be an Army (even if under SFF/CS command structure) unit along of the lines of Delta to do clandestine offensive Intel operations as well as going after HVT that normal official Military SOPs wouldnt allow them to do. SG's place in our Orbat being kept murky for that exact same reason.

As to why another "phantom unit" ? (if that is indeed what was brought out in the video) - Each unit can only specialize and bring so many skills to the table and be responsible for only a limited amount of threat perception. I.e JSOC being America's "Phantom Command" has Delta, Devgru and other Units under command. While skill sets overall operational deployment is done based on capability in the end.

For Example in the CT senario -- you want to do a HR mission in a contained urban environment the FBI HRT team is probably the best out of the three. You want to take down an Airliner Delta has the best capabilities in that regard and if you want to take down a ship it would be the SEALs..

I assume along these lines an NSG "Phantom Unit" would also bring something that the SG would lack.

Or the other Theory would be that in true Indian fashion the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and we are going around in circles without capturing and utilizing capability to the best of its potential ..lol.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby A Sharma » 14 Jul 2014 01:59

India set to give SOC(K) to terror

The Government is likely to give the go-ahead for setting up a Special Operations Command (SOC) to counter terrorism and conduct unconventional warfare and covert operations in the country and the neighbourhood. The Defence Ministry has approved the SOC in principle and the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS), chaired by the Prime Minister, will take the final call shortly.

Headed by a Lieutenant-General, the proposed command will report to the National Security Advisor (NSA) and Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) and will work closely with the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) as the commandos may have to carry out strategic strikes outside Indian boundaries.

It will be somewhat patterned on the lines of the US Special Operations Command, which took out Osama Bin Laden in its Abbottabad operation, and is engaged in “war on terror”. The US Command works in tandem with the CIA, which gives the crucial Intelligence inputs in war zones of Afghanistan and other parts of the world. It did so even during the Iraq campaign.

Based on the real time Intelligence, the Navy SEAL and Green Beret commandos of the US have carried out several known and many clandestine operations in Afghanistan and Africa. While strategic strikes in Afghanistan were against the Taliban, targeted “killings” in Africa were against the Al Qaeda.

The 14-member Naresh Chandra Taskforce on National Security in its recommendations submitted to the Prime Minister in 2012 had suggested setting up three commands, including Special Operations, Cyber and Aerospace, to keep abreast with the fast changing nature of war fighting.

The proposal to have the Special Operations Command gathered momentum after Army Chief General Bikram Singh, who is also Chairman Chiefs of Staff Committee, gave a detailed presentation about it to Prime Minister Narendra Modi last month, sources said here on Saturday.

The three Services have already done the ground work and submitted the plan for raising the new Command to the Defence Ministry some months back but the general elections delayed the process as the then UPA Government did not want to take a major policy decision of this nature towards the fag end of its tenure, officials said.

The Prime Minister will meet the three Services chiefs later this month to review the SOC proposal before discussing it in the CCS, sources said. Modi has already decided to interact with the chiefs every month to gain first-hand knowledge about operational preparedness and problems faced by the Armed Forces including slow pace of modernisation.

Batches of commandos of Special Forces of the Army, Marine Commandos (MARCOS) of the Navy and Garud of IAF will be integrated to deal with “out of area” contingencies like warding off any threat to remote islands in Andaman & Nicobar and other such regions in the Indian Ocean.

Phase-I of setting up the SOC will involve an amalgamation of manpower and assets of the three Services. Phase-II will see modifications in standard operating procedures (SOPs), once the Command gets operational, sources said. While the three Services have agreed to have such a command for effective response to any threat without losing time, they will continue to operate in their assigned domains, officials said.

Elaborating upon it, officials said the Special Forces of the Army will continue to carry out anti-insurgency and counter-terrorist operations in Jammu & Kashmir and the North-East besides specialised tasks.

At present, the Special Forces have eight battalions (one battalion has 1,000 men) and they have vast experience of operating in jungles of the North-East, Jammu & Kashmir and as part of the Indian Peace Keeping Force (IPKF) in Sri Lanka.

The one battalion strong MARCOS, raised in the early 1980s, is engaged in anti-piracy operations in the Gulf of Aden. A small detachment is engaged in counter-terrorism in Kashmir and deployed at Wular Lake near Srinagar. Its commandos came to limelight for the first time when they took on terrorists for the first few hours after the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks in 2008. MARCOS also took part in some operations during the IPKF deployment in Sri Lanka.

With a view to guarding its airfields and assets like state-of-the-art fighter jets and other sensitive equipment, the IAF raised Garud Commando Force five years back. While the role of these commandos is more or less static, the SOC may see them playing a bigger role, sources said.

Once the Command gets going, the three Services propose to gradually withdraw their commandos and favour the new set-up to have its own trained manpower, sources said. However, the Government may not agree as raising a new force will require huge funds. The Government may opt for a small but effective and flexible SOC with commandos from Army, Navy and IAF serving short tenures before returning to their parent organisations, officials said.

As for the command structure of the SOC, a Lt-General will head it and equivalent rank officers from IAF and Navy will head the Space and Cyber Commands. Given the expertise in commando operations, the Army will head the SOC while Space Command will have an IAF officer as chief while a Navy officer will be at the helm of the Cyber Command, they said.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby RoyG » 14 Jul 2014 08:26

Woohoo! This is excellent knews.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sum » 14 Jul 2014 08:27

Batches of commandos of Special Forces of the Army, Marine Commandos (MARCOS) of the Navy and Garud of IAF will be integrated to deal with “out of area” contingencies like warding off any threat to remote islands in Andaman & Nicobar and other such regions in the Indian Ocean.

Where does this leave the NSG "special units/phantoms"? Are these also to be part of SOC(K)?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby RoyG » 14 Jul 2014 09:17

I am sure the NSG will also fall into it as well. Wish we could be more original with the name instead of just blindly copying the yanks. (SOC, NCTC, etc)

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby member_25399 » 14 Jul 2014 10:43

question for the gurus here ...
1. How will the SG which is currently under RAW will fit in ?
2. Does this leave any room for TSD type units in the future ?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby member_20453 » 14 Jul 2014 14:09

I think with the setting up of the SOC, it is high time for some serious reorganization with-in the 3 services and each service should have a tier 1 and tier 2 force. The tier-1 force should be part of SOC while Tier-2 should be unde command of the service itself.

SFF should go from being a force under the army to being a Specialist force under the SOC entirely since they work closely with RAW & are trained extensively in COIN/Recon/Cover/unconventional/mountain/jungle and other types of warfare, they are ideal for a vairety of roles.

Special Frontier Force can be split up into various battalions, its strength though classified is estimated well over 10,000 i.e around 10 Battallions, we can have a split based on needs:

SRS (Special Rescue Service Tier-2): 1 Specialized Battallion dedicated to Hostage Recue/ Rescue of downed pilots/ Rescue behind enemy lines. They would be the Go to force for all war time rescue needs for all 3 services and operate under the SOC

SFS (Special Frontier Service Tier 2):2 Batallions under SOC Targetting of Enemy leadership/Covert ops against key enemy human targets, these would work closely with IB/RAW/NSA to hit enemy's leadership

SES (Special Executive Service Tier 1): 3 Batallions under SOC Dedicated to Strategic Recon i.e location of enemy WMD/ planning and conducting of strategic raids with tri-service counter parts etc

SFF (Special Frontier Force Tier- 3): 6 Batallions of Elite Infantry shock troops i.e similar to Army Rangers with primary role of targeting Enemy war infrastructure i.e ordance factories, large ammo dumps, supply yards, large fuel depots etc

IAF Garuds Tier-1: 2 Batalions of IAF finest completly under SOC with primarily role of direct action raids on strategic air bases & assets i.e going after nukes and delivery platforms i.e bombers etc with the planning help from SES

IAF TAS i.e Tactical Air Service Tier-2: 3-5 Batallions of IAF commandos independent of SOC with primary role of airbase raids, DEAD, capturing airfields, taking down enemy radars, etc.

IN Marcos Tier-1: 2 Batallions of IN's finest also under SOC going after Strategic Naval bases/sub pens i.e nukes & delivery platforms also from help with SES

IN Marines Tier-2: 3-5 Batallions of IN commandos independent of SOC going after naval radars, assisting in naval base raids, amphibious raids, taking out enemy shore defences etc.

IA Para-Rangers Tier-1: 2 Batallions of IA's finest also under SOC going after Army bases/Strategic bunkers i.e nukes & delivery platforms also from help with SES

IA Para Commandos Tier 2: 10 Batallions of IA's airborne shock commando independent of SOC going after heavily defended sites, nodes of communication and other army key targets

NSG SAG: Should be part of the SOC for domestic Anti terror, Special Action roles

NSG SRG: Should be independent of the SOC & should be the last line of defence force for all strategic sites as well as key Army/Navy & AF bases in India, not sure who is guarding India's WMD arsenal & but SRG should be suplementing that force.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby member_28539 » 14 Jul 2014 15:18

The Prime Minister will meet the three Services chiefs later this month to review the SOC proposal before discussing it in the CCS, sources said. Modi has already decided to interact with the chiefs every month to gain first-hand knowledge about operational preparedness and problems faced by the Armed Forces including slow pace of modernisation.


This is the Distinct Advantage right here...We finally have someone who has the zeal & will to know what is going on.

A great step indeed! 8) but agree with the point on copying Yanks on acros...let's try & be a bit more original (I really liked MARCOS...very original onlee :D )

I wonder what kind of salwar shivering pakis must be doing now :rotfl:

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rohitvats » 14 Jul 2014 17:05

The move to set-up SOC is a welcome development. Now, next important thing would be to separate SF from Para Regiment and remove this anomaly which I think exists only in India. And for heaven's sake, keep the Para Regiment out of SOC unless in direct requirement of SOC mandate.

From the looks of it, it is but natural that we'll have TIER 1 and TIER 2 system of special forces. Special Group would ideally move into SOC and become the TIER I while Para SF becomes Tier 2. MARCOS may develop a module on lines of SEAL TEAM 6 - if they already don't have one.

NSG is an anomaly given its origin - it may so happen that it comes under MHA for administrative reasons - like RR - but operational aspect is handled by SOC. SOC will allow centralization of precious resources and better allocation of same. Assets like C-130 can be used more judiciously and specialist units like SOAR of US SOCOM be raised. And integration of various outfits and standardization of SOP etc.

Good to see that it will report directly to NSA and PMO - will reduce time delays and SOC will become (at least one hopes it does) the proverbial tip of the spear.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Ankit Desai » 14 Jul 2014 18:08

rohitvats wrote:Now, next important thing would be to separate SF from Para Regiment and remove this anomaly which I think exists only in India. And for heaven's sake, keep the Para Regiment out of SOC unless in direct requirement of SOC mandate


+1

rohitvats wrote:MARCOS may develop a module on lines of SEAL TEAM 6 - if they already don't have one.


I have always this question why a group like SEAL (Marcos in Indian context)coming from Navy is involved in land operations ? Why should not a group from Army like SF in Indian context be involved for land operations ? Respective groups are specialized in their domain why to disturb them ?

-Ankit

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 15 Jul 2014 10:16

http://theweek.com/article/index/263788 ... mothership

her is an idea that will warm the heart of Philip sir - a fwd floating base for special ops, converted cheaply on a merchant hull, with room for 200 operators and their marine eqpt, Ro-ro facility and a helipad for the biggest helis like ch53. its going to enter ioc in end 2014. socom finally has its own long distance ship and untethered from costly and high-footprint navy/marine corps assets.

I think we should take a leaf out of this book, buy a couple of 10,000t merchant bulk cargo hulls cheaply and give it to our marcos units as their floating base, rather than wait for the full fledged LPHDs to show up some distant day.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Prem Kumar » 15 Jul 2014 22:30

Ankit: SEAL is an acronym for SEa Air Land. So, even though they specialize in the water, they train to be versatile

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Jayram » 16 Jul 2014 02:27

Target number 1 should be Dawood bhai.. Anyone the Pakis are guarding so closely should be well worth the trouble.. Imagine what a coup that would be for the PM and for India.. Then all the congress netas with thier shady underwold links would come tumbling out of the closet.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Raja Bose » 16 Jul 2014 02:58

Singha wrote:http://theweek.com/article/index/263788/the-navy-is-quietly-building-a-big-secretive-special-operations-mothership

her is an idea that will warm the heart of Philip sir - a fwd floating base for special ops, converted cheaply on a merchant hull, with room for 200 operators and their marine eqpt, Ro-ro facility and a helipad for the biggest helis like ch53. its going to enter ioc in end 2014. socom finally has its own long distance ship and untethered from costly and high-footprint navy/marine corps assets.

I think we should take a leaf out of this book, buy a couple of 10,000t merchant bulk cargo hulls cheaply and give it to our marcos units as their floating base, rather than wait for the full fledged LPHDs to show up some distant day.


Isn't that idea directly lifted from one of the Frederick Forsyth books where SEALs and SBS were based out of floating bases converted from merchant hulls (conversion done in Goa as per the book)? :mrgreen:

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby RoyG » 16 Jul 2014 04:41

It's better to devote energy towards aiding the Balochis, Sindhis, Shias, etc rather than just bumping off one person.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Ankit Desai » 16 Jul 2014 05:26

Prem Kumar wrote:Ankit: SEAL is an acronym for SEa Air Land. So, even though they specialize in the water, they train to be versatile



I see. Thanks Prem for the info. I should have search around before asking it on BRF. Feeling so embarrassing now.

-Ankit

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 18 Jul 2014 10:03

Hope these havnt been posted before. Some interesting Pics of the NSG some look older. (Source: our fav deffora from across the border)

Some pics are form Ex IronFist 2013

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 18 Jul 2014 10:05

Hope these havnt been posted before. And Apologies if this is an overload. It seems I have no work today ;P

Marcos after one of the "Speed Marches" during selection Circa 1990s (Paras?)

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Unknown Unit. Doubt its CRPF's COBRA due to M-4

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Para's going through an Indonesian(?) Close Combat system training

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Indian and Afghan SF
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Other Random Screen Grabs

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New Para Helmet?

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M4 With Suppressor :)

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Vintage

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Grabs of MARCOS and SF Cross Training

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Raja Bose » 26 Jul 2014 09:07


TSJones
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby TSJones » 26 Jul 2014 11:22

rkhanna, most excellent discussion!

looking at that pic of those guys after a speed march reminded me of when I went through basic infantry training (in the marines everybody goes through basic infantry training no matter what your MOS is). Of course we didn't have to go near as far as special ops and recon did, but we sped marched in full equipment 8 miles to the ordnance training site and then back to the barracks that night. Lord God, the first few times it was awful. A number of guys just couldn't take it and dropped. I remember helped carrying one little dude that weighed about 120 pounds (we were carrying 60 pounds of gear at least). Once we dragged him to the training site he was alright, then at night we had to repeat the whole process. :( The little guy was from NYC and was really smart so I think the Corps really wanted him to stay in. One thing you didn't want to do was get caught carrying a light load. OMG!

But any way it was 16 miles a day plus maneuvers and training all day long at the ordnance site. You HAD to complete an approved training schedule of 28 days or else they set you back for a repeat! The regular marine infantry MOS had six months of this however I was avionics MOS. You go through 4 weeks of this after 12 weeks of boot camp and then you are an outstanding physical specimen.

Anyway, most undercover dirty work for the US is done by CIA and its contractors, not special forces. Locals are employed after years of infiltration by CIA agents. A lot of CIA agents are ex special forces. They get tired of military chicken sh*t and go civilian

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby govardhanks » 26 Jul 2014 13:43

Para's going through an Indonesian(?) Close Combat system training


Found this link a documentary perhaps, it is Filipino Martial Combat System called Pekiti Tirsia Kali. Taught only to Special forces, commandos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60OJmqfOHeI

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 27 Jul 2014 20:15

INDRA 2014

Marcos or VBSS?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 29 Jul 2014 12:44

NSG prepping for a mock drill in Punjab

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby A Sharma » 29 Jul 2014 19:33


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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 04 Aug 2014 01:18

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 110184.ece

...Lieutenant Commander Shailesh Tyagi, a marine commando, was awarded NM for gallantry for displaying exemplary courage in a joint operation against Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) at freezing temperatures in a Kashmir village. Though injured in militant fire, Lt Cdr Tyagi led from the front and ensured the safety of his injured team members. A hardcore militant was eliminated in the operation....

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby tushar_m » 07 Aug 2014 20:27

Govt doubles NSG commando strength in each of four hubs

The NSG crack commando strength has been almost doubled to 460 personnel each stationed at select hubs in Mumbai, Chennai, Kolkata and Hyderabad to undertake quick and swift counter-terror or counter-hijack operations.

The hubs in these cities, covering key areas, were set up in the aftermath of the November 2008 Mumbai terror attacks during which the elite force came under criticism for slow response time.

“It has been decided to reinforce the strength of each of the four regional hubs from 241 to 460 personnel with immediate effect,” the Union Home Ministry said in its annual report for 2013-14 tabled in Parliament yesterday.

All the four hubs were made operational in 2009 by the Home Ministry after residential and training infrastructure was developed in these hubs for commandos and other administrative staff of the National Security Guard (NSG), a federal contingency force that was raised in 1984 to undertake special missions against terrorists and hijackers.

Specially trained commandos of the NSG counter-terror taskforce have been since stationed at these locations and they are armed with sophisticated weapons, communication gadgetry and other logistics to launch themselves in an combat scenario at a short notice.

Hyderabad and Chennai hubs have also been upgraded to the level of regional centres with 600 acres and 34.31 acres of land allotted to NSG in these cities respectively.

The force is also mulling to finalise a land for its fifth hub that could come up in Gujarat near Ahmedabad.

Source : PTI

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby srai » 08 Aug 2014 06:07

^^^

Still no NSG hub plans for Bangalore...

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 08 Aug 2014 09:29

We are doubling Para SF strength and NSG strength..Can any of the Guru's highlight if there has been if there is being any dilution of Capability? In the end Training and Selection also comes down to $$$$$ is the Per head cost being maintained..?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 18 Aug 2014 10:09

Para-special forces get two new battalions
The Army is slowly but surely expanding and modernising its clandestine warfare arm, with two more Para-Special Forces battalions now being raised in tune with its operational doctrine. Navy and IAF, too, are strengthening their Special Forces with specialized weaponry.

But there is still "no forward movement" on the urgent need to bring the country's diverse Special Forces, which report to disparate authorities, under a single operational command to ensure they can be used as "strategic assets" for larger national security objectives.

Neither the Naresh Chandra taskforce's strong recommendation for a Special Operations Command (SOC), nor the chiefs of staff committee's proposal for three additional tri-Service commands - cyber, Special Forces and space - has so far figured on the Modi government's radar.

"Till there is unity in command and control of Special Forces, at least of the military if not the paramilitary ones, India's unconventional warfare arm will never get the sharp edge it requires. We have relegated our Special Forces to the tactical and operational domain, instead of focusing on them as strategic assets to be used with decisive effect," says a top officer.

The armed forces, however, are all gung-ho about their own elite forces, even though there is a "joint doctrine for Special Forces operations". Navy, for instance, is now hunting for new "underwater special purpose crafts" for their marine commandos or "Marcos", who are modelled on the famed US Navy SEALs. Incidentally, it was SEAL Team Six which killed Osama bin Laden at Abbottabad on May 2, 2011.

The Army, in turn, is raising two Para-SF battalions to add to the eight Para-SF and five Para (Airborne) battalions it already has for surveillance, target-designation, out-of-area contingencies, surgical strikes and hit-and-run operations.



"The raising of the first new Para-SF battalion will be completed by next year, while the second will be in place by 2017-2018," said an officer. Concurrently, the Army is also stitching up contracts to modernise its existing 13 battalions, each with around 620 soldiers, apart from training them in Chinese and other foreign languages.

The Rs 70 lakh contract for 33 "underwater open-circuit diving equipment" from Sweden, for instance, has already been inked. Then, there is the "controlled aerial delivery system" to drop specialised payloads in designated target areas behind enemy lines.

The equipment being inducted ranges from 5.56mm TAR-21 Tavor assault rifles, 7.62mm Galil sniper rifles, M4A1 carbines, all-terrain multi-utility vehicles and GPS navigation systems to modular acquisition devices, laser range-finders, high-frequency communication sets and combat free-fall parachutes.

Experts, however, contend a tri-Service SOC is the need of the hour to holistically plan and execute "irregular warfare". Special Forces operations, of course, have to be backed by "actionable intelligence", which again is still enmeshed in turf wars in India. The armed forces have only two unified commands as of now, one in the military outpost of Andaman and Nicobar archipelago and the Strategic Forces Command to handle nuclear weapons.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 320129.cms

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 18 Aug 2014 11:06

IAF quick response teams -garuda- to be provided bullet proof and blast resistant vehicles

The Indian Air Force (IAF) will be equipping its quick reaction teams (QRTs)—— the first responders to any ground-based attack on airfields or other sensitive installations—— with high-performance light bullet-proof vehicles.

The IAF needs 200 such vehicles, which will be employed for the movement and operations of small independent teams to counter sub-conventional threats to the IAF in real time. These are expected to replace the conventional light commercial vehicles presently being used for such purposes.

The move to acquire bullet-proof vehicles comes in the wake of some other measures such as procurement of assault rifles, lighter flak jackets and better communication gear to enhance the effectiveness of QRTs.

The IAF wants an air-conditioned vehicle of not more than 5 m with a turbocharged diesel engine and automatic transmission. It should have firing ports on both sides and the rear, along with a protected, fully-traversing roof turret for mounting a light machine gun.

The vehicle will have “run-flat” tyres and an armoured flooring to protect the occupants from high-intensity blasts on the ground, and bullet-proof windshield and windows along with bullet-proof glass above the firing ports. The IAF’s requirements stipulate that the vehicle should have the capability to withstand direct multiple hits from the latest weapons.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2014/20140818/nation.htm#7

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 18 Aug 2014 11:29

Para SF battalions now greatly outnumber Vanilla Para Battalions.. implications of this on a tactical and Strategic level are mind boggling.

IMO to draw a parallel the Royal Marine Commando or US Army Ranger is not a SF unit while being SO capable. They work in Conjunction with Smaller Sized SF units. What is the point of having this pyramid reversed. Either in terms of resources or Tasking..

While units have been expanded i doubt budgets have been expanded at the same level.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 18 Aug 2014 11:30

IAF quick response teams -garuda- to be provided bullet proof and blast resistant vehicles


Most likely lessons learnt from the Paki bases getting hit so regularly..

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby member_28539 » 18 Aug 2014 13:29

Can any guru enlighten who takes this whole decision of coverting Regiments altogether into SF? I mean who in thier right mind can think of a structure wherein the traditional Para Regiments are outnumbered by their SF counterparts :eek:

Nikhil T
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Nikhil T » 18 Aug 2014 15:13

How PM Modi got SPG to remove the bullet proof shield at Red Fort

Narendra Modi overruled strong objections from his security detail and shunned the bullet-proof enclosure to “connect directly” with people during his maiden Independence Day speech as PM on Friday.

The enclosure, a regular feature for almost 30 years, was removed just hours before the PM was to reach the Red Fort to address the nation. It was a closely guarded decision and only a handful of senior officers were in know, a home ministry source said.

“His view was that Independence Day is a people's festival and he didn't want any barriers in between -– not even a glass screen," a security official said. Again in the evening at a function at Rashtrapati Bhawan, Modi broke free from the security cordon to meet people.

Earlier, more steps were taken when Modi refused to use the bullet-proof enclosure after three hours of discussions that involved top security officials, home ministry sources said.

"The Prime Minister faces considerable threat to his life from terrorists. The enclosure was removed hours before his speech to keep an element of surprise,” the official said.

Security is put in place 48 hours ahead of the speech after an extensive anti-sabotage drill and securing of all high-rises in the vicinity.

The special protection group (SPG), responsible for the security of the PM, former PMs and their families, assigned more men to close protection team (CPT) to throw a ring around the PM. The CPT men are the first line of defence if someone fires a shot at the PM.

All high-rises, including Gauri Shankar temple, Digambar Jain temple and bus terminus, around the 17th century fort were secured and snipers deployed on rooftops. Buildings in Jhandewalan, around 3kms away, were also being guarded.

The bullet-resistant enclosure first came up on the Republic Day in 1985 when Rajiv Gandhi was the PM. It became a permanent fixture until VP Singh opted for a half enclosure for the Independence Day in 1990. The screen was raised body-high again the next year for PM PV Narasimha Rao. After Rajiv Gandhi, Modi, according to intelligence agencies, faces maximum threat to life.

In the evening, at the At Home function at Rashtrapati Bhawan, Modi broke away from the security cordon to meet guests. For about 15 minutes, he mingled with the crowd and even signed autographs for children.


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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 19 Aug 2014 12:52

Posted sometime in June...Interesting interview with Para SF officers. Almost 50% of Operators are Combat Diver qualified

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_rmH8ZpCFQ

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 19 Aug 2014 19:11

Interesting nugget of information from the video above..One of the officers says that they have to Train for a Year before active deployment.

Compare this time lag to other Western Units

1\ Seals - 1.5 years before being assigned a team, then 1 year before Active deployment. Considering SEALs are newly minted Naval recruits this makes sense.

2\ Delta - Operators Training Course is Six months before active deployment. This makes sense since majority of recruits are US SF or Rangers

3\ US Army SF- 50 Weeks before being able to deploy operationally

4\ SAS - 12 months of training + 4 years or minimum prior service. (similar for the Aussie SASR)


IMO on Par with other Units. SG would be a better fit for Delta and MARCOS with 2.5 years of Training is similar to the SEALs..

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby member_20453 » 19 Aug 2014 19:29

rkhanna wrote:Interesting nugget of information from the video above..One of the officers says that they have to Train for a Year before active deployment.

Compare this time lag to other Western Units

1\ Seals - 1.5 years before being assigned a team, then 1 year before Active deployment. Considering SEALs are newly minted Naval recruits this makes sense.

2\ Delta - Operators Training Course is Six months before active deployment. This makes sense since majority of recruits are US SF or Rangers

3\ US Army SF- 50 Weeks before being able to deploy operationally

4\ SAS - 12 months of training + 4 years or minimum prior service. (similar for the Aussie SASR)


IMO on Par with other Units. SG would be a better fit for Delta and MARCOS with 2.5 years of Training is similar to the SEALs..


Active Deployment is also part of their operational training by the end of it, by the time Para SF/ Garuds and Marcos complete their various modules of training i.e mountain warafre, desert warfare, Guerilla wrafare, Jungle Warfare etc. etc. they would have been actively deploying and training for nearly 5 years as operators. As far as I see it they never really stop training. The For Para SF its slightly different 1 year of basic SF training before deployment is enough since many come from IMA/NDA and are already very well trained.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby srai » 19 Aug 2014 20:05

wig wrote:Para-special forces get two new battalions
The Army is slowly but surely expanding and modernising its clandestine warfare arm, with two more Para-Special Forces battalions now being raised in tune with its operational doctrine. Navy and IAF, too, are strengthening their Special Forces with specialized weaponry.

But there is still "no forward movement" on the urgent need to bring the country's diverse Special Forces, which report to disparate authorities, under a single operational command to ensure they can be used as "strategic assets" for larger national security objectives.

Neither the Naresh Chandra taskforce's strong recommendation for a Special Operations Command (SOC), nor the chiefs of staff committee's proposal for three additional tri-Service commands - cyber, Special Forces and space - has so far figured on the Modi government's radar.

"Till there is unity in command and control of Special Forces, at least of the military if not the paramilitary ones, India's unconventional warfare arm will never get the sharp edge it requires. We have relegated our Special Forces to the tactical and operational domain, instead of focusing on them as strategic assets to be used with decisive effect," says a top officer.

The armed forces, however, are all gung-ho about their own elite forces, even though there is a "joint doctrine for Special Forces operations". Navy, for instance, is now hunting for new "underwater special purpose crafts" for their marine commandos or "Marcos", who are modelled on the famed US Navy SEALs. Incidentally, it was SEAL Team Six which killed Osama bin Laden at Abbottabad on May 2, 2011.

The Army, in turn, is raising two Para-SF battalions to add to the eight Para-SF and five Para (Airborne) battalions it already has for surveillance, target-designation, out-of-area contingencies, surgical strikes and hit-and-run operations.



"The raising of the first new Para-SF battalion will be completed by next year, while the second will be in place by 2017-2018," said an officer. Concurrently, the Army is also stitching up contracts to modernise its existing 13 battalions, each with around 620 soldiers, apart from training them in Chinese and other foreign languages.

The Rs 70 lakh contract for 33 "underwater open-circuit diving equipment" from Sweden, for instance, has already been inked. Then, there is the "controlled aerial delivery system" to drop specialised payloads in designated target areas behind enemy lines.

The equipment being inducted ranges from 5.56mm TAR-21 Tavor assault rifles, 7.62mm Galil sniper rifles, M4A1 carbines, all-terrain multi-utility vehicles and GPS navigation systems to modular acquisition devices, laser range-finders, high-frequency communication sets and combat free-fall parachutes.

Experts, however, contend a tri-Service SOC is the need of the hour to holistically plan and execute "irregular warfare". Special Forces operations, of course, have to be backed by "actionable intelligence", which again is still enmeshed in turf wars in India. The armed forces have only two unified commands as of now, one in the military outpost of Andaman and Nicobar archipelago and the Strategic Forces Command to handle nuclear weapons.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 320129.cms


6 + 6 C-130Js Special Ops


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