Discussion on Indian Special Forces

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ArmenT
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ArmenT » 19 Aug 2014 20:47

rkhanna wrote:1\ Seals - 1.5 years before being assigned a team, then 1 year before Active deployment. Considering SEALs are newly minted Naval recruits this makes sense.

Actually, many SEALS are in the military first and then request a transfer to SEAL training. Interestingly, the stats also show that candidates with a college degree are twice as likely to pass BUD/S as compared to those without a degree.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 20 Aug 2014 09:16

Active Deployment is also part of their operational training by the end of it, by the time Para SF/ Garuds and Marcos complete their various modules of training i.e mountain warafre, desert warfare, Guerilla wrafare, Jungle Warfare etc. etc. they would have been actively deploying and training for nearly 5 years as operators. As far as I see it they never really stop training. The For Para SF its slightly different 1 year of basic SF training before deployment is enough since many come from IMA/NDA and are already very well trained.


IMO continuous training through active operational status is par for any SOF unit any where in the world. This includes cross training with units of other services and countries.

PARA SF 1 Year Training is Par with the SAS and US Army SF.

Actually, many SEALS are in the military first and then request a transfer to SEAL training. Interestingly, the stats also show that candidates with a college degree are twice as likely to pass BUD/S as compared to those without a degree.


Many years ago. I had read somewhere that the avg psychology profile of US SOF operators shows significantly above avg IQ and many now come with advanced Computer/Technology skills. Or the smartest operators are put through CompSci courses to bring them up to speed faster.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby KiranM » 20 Aug 2014 18:12

rkhanna wrote:Posted sometime in June...Interesting interview with Para SF officers. Almost 50% of Operators are Combat Diver qualified

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_rmH8ZpCFQ

When displaying the names of the SF folks the Corps badge is shown. Need confirmation if it is the Chinar Corps. Though looks a little different from what is on BR http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/images/Corps-XV.jpg.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 20 Aug 2014 23:21

This is incredible and shows the kind of men India has in its armed forces and the SF.

Read it all.

This sort of stuff should be in school books.

Image

Soldier of Fortune (The untold Story)

This is a story of courage.

A true story of incredible courage of a soldier, whom I've had the privilege of knowing. Someone, who would just not take "NO" for an answer, despite the challenges life threw at him. A story that needs to be told.

There is inevitably a strange, almost labored disconnect between the urgent, distinctive ‘pop’ of the speeding bullet as it whizzes past you and the apparently languid, disarmingly slow movement of those around you. A sardonic, yet glowing affirmation of the theory of relativity, if you will. Those who have been inactive combat and had the privilege of being fired at, would know. Deependra Singh Sengar did. More than once!

It was the day after Valentine’s Day, 1998. Sengar had just been received at the Guwahati airport by the unit’s escort team. At 5’6” and 52 kgs in weight, you could easily mistake him for the a postgraduate student at Guwahati University. Sengar was re-joining the unit in active operations in the North East - after weeks of pleading, screaming & struggling against the orders of Col Ivan Crasto, the Commanding Officer - to man the administrative rear echelon of the unit in a cosy, sleepy town in Himachal Pradesh.

That is who he was – a man of action. And men of action, as you would know, abhor routine admin jobs!

The first message he overheard, 15 minutes in transit, on the secured communication radio link was garbled. 5-6 senior militant leaders in a house, armed with automatics, pin point location, high credibility of info, apparent transit profile, likely to move out soon. The Quick Reaction Team (QRT) from the unit was starting out, but could hit target only in an hour. Sengar quickly realized that with a short detour, he could be at the target in 20 mins. Saving 40 mins could mean the difference between success and failure.

A flurry of messages later, Sengar had convinced the Battalion HQ that he and his escort team were best positioned to initiate contact with the militants before they disappeared. The QRT could follow. Now, escort teams are usually a rag tag team of whoever is available. Fully kitted out, sure – weapons, ammo, secured communication - the works. But still, certainly not the first choice of guys for going into combat with. But that didn’t deter Sengar. He swung in and hit the target in 20 mins, as planned. A short, sharp exchange of fire ensued. 2 reds down, 3 had fled.

It is then that Sengar realized that he had been hit. Two bullets had pierced through his abdomen, making a clean, almost unnoticeable entry in the front and a classic, disproportionate exit wound in his back. What they call in the medical world, rather disparagingly, a ‘clean’ shot.

The rest was a blur. The flurry of the evacuation process. Hand carried, on four wheel drive, by chopper, through the local hospital in the neighborhood, and then to the Base Hospital at Guwahati. The long, unending line of surgeries. Cut, sew & cut again. After about 15 days of chopping and pasting, the docs were confident of partial recovery in a time frame of about 18-24 months.

A miracle, they called it. But then, they hadn’t seen miracles - as yet.

Sengar was no pushover who could be tied down to a hospital bed. He was up and about in 45 days. He read books on his condition and realized that psychological recovery was as important as medical one. He started doing what was in his reach- whether strict army hospital rules allowed or not. Sneaking out of the hospital, hobbling along to the theatres to watch practically every movie worth watching. & some which didn’t fit even that bill. 60 days from that fateful day, a Unit officer was getting married. Sengar, attired in a Lungi & a kurta (he couldn’t wear anything else – the scars hadn’t yet healed), with tubes and bags (If you must know - A colostomy bag & a bag directly attached to urinary bladder) immodestly but practically hanging out of his modest frame, hired a car and travelled 5 hours one way to Dehradun.

“Huh? All this to attend a frikking marriage??", You might ask. Well, Sengar wasn’t the type who’d let anything – certainly not a little thing like 25 grams worth of random molten lead that burnt independent, solitary furrows through his intestines - come in the way of having the pleasure of seeing one of his mates being led, willingly to the gallows!!

Sengar hated hospitals. Much to the deep dismay of a bevy of nurses there. He was back in the unit by early May, 98. The docs, fed up with his constant supplications to be released, grudgingly allowed him to get back to the unit, with the solemn promise that he would not exert himself, and stay confined to the unit HQs (chuckle chuckle).

Too difficult for someone who was called “Rocket” by the junior officers as Sengar was the recipient of the coveted "Dagger" in the Commando course, the one who was known for being one of the most physically fit officers and men.

Around this time, a training exercise was being conducted in the eastern sector and Sengar saw a chance to prove his fitness. He pleaded with Col Crasto to be allowed to get there, to ‘man the telephone’. Crasto finally caved in after Sengar was able to convince the doctors to pronounce him “fit” for active duty. Sengar had amazingly, defying every single precedent of recorded medical recovery in cases similar to his, convinced the docs to upgrade his medical category to SHAPE1.


He pleaded, struggled, nagged, nudged, begged, threatened, and resorted to blatant emotional blackmail of the vilest means known to be posted on the Eastern Sector.

In the middle of the exercise, news broke about the Kargil conflict and the unit was to airlift a team for the Kargil war. Sengar was back to doing what he loved best - back to action, leading a team. He led his team to capture Neelam post in the Kargil war, which was the highest post captured in the whole engagement by the Indian Army. By August 99, officially the Kargil war was over, but escalated engagements along the LOC still required the unit to stay in the area. And Sengar’s team was in the middle of action – again.

In Sep 01, Sengar was hit again.

A violent firefight with a group of freshly inducted militants. A burst of fire from an AK-47 tore through his upper thigh and hip. Bleeding profusely and his hip bone in tatters, we knew if we didn’t evacuate him in time, we’d lose him. A paratrooper in the Divisional HQ, a chopper pilot, who was on a routine training mission learnt of Sengar being hit. Without waiting for authorization, violating every rule in the book, flew in, he landed at a hastily secured patch at the base of the hill feature and evacuated Sengar to the hospital through a route not allowed for Indian aircrafts - Sengar reached hospital in 45 mins! A couple of more mins of delay, and he would have been history.

Back to the ‘cut n sew’ story; only, this time, it was more serious than the first. Sengar survived. Barely. He was transferred to Delhi’s super specialty Army hospital two months later and it was then, that his parents were brought to Delhi and the news broken. All this while he was told that he would recover and be back in action in a short time- It took him another month to finally learn from the docs their verdict – He would never walk again.

This was a body blow (pun unintended) even for Sengar. He decided to quit the Army. He had no interest in peddling files clad in the fabulous olives. Once he had waded through the rivers of emotion, which lasted all of 24 hours, he decided to take charge of his apparently fragile destiny.

Sengar started researching options of an alternate career path. He was 30, single and had the energy of a bull - or three. It didn’t take him long to realise that he needed to tame the beast called ‘CAT’ - the Common Admission Test, to take a shot at passing through the portals of the premier business schools.

As he did a SWOT analysis, he identified that his analytical skills weren’t what they once were. So, he decided to take on the task of conquering Arithmophobia – his paranoia of numbers. He got all the math books and diligently went through class four to class 12 books. Minor hiccups like the fact that he had to be carried from his hospital bed to the car, or the fact that they had to make special provision for him at the classes, so he could recline on an ad hoc chair and take notes didn’t bother him one bit.

Sengar took the CAT in Dec 2000. Based on his results, he got a call from 15 of the 16 B schools he had applied to - IIM (A), IIM (B), IIM (C), IIM (L) …. A veritable who’s who of the B school list. Four days after he hung up his beloved Olive Greens, he got married. Eight days later, he joined the Indian Institute of Management, Ahmedabad. Two brilliant years of number crunching analysis later, Sengar graduated with distinction - on crutches.


Today, Sengar is a top management professional with Microsoft, in Singapore with a doting wife and two wonderful kids. If you thought that’s the final update on his story, wait, because, there is one final flourish.

After ten long years on crutches, Sengar decided he had had enough. He chucked his crutches into a corner & decided to rough it out. Slowly, and with tremendous perseverance, he started walking. In under a year, he was going for short jogs. In Sep 13, on a trip to India, he decided to revisit his old unit. He got in touch with the Commanding Officer, who invited him to go for a run with the unit in the standard Battle Physical Efficiency Test- with loaded backpack and a weapon. And Sengar did.

The ‘Rocket’ had returned. To a hero’s welcome.


By
Subin Balaji Balakrishnan
Last edited by Karan M on 20 Aug 2014 23:27, edited 2 times in total.

Karan M
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 20 Aug 2014 23:23

BTW, the Ivan Crasto mentioned above.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/10+a ... 23062.html

3. SKY-HIGH BRAVERY
Major Ivan Joseph Crasto

The Mi-17 helicopterThe Mi-17 helicopterOn October 13, 1992, a mountain cable car trolley at a resort on the Chandigarh-Shimla highway met with a freak accident and was dangling precariously 1,000 ft above the ground, trapping 10 tourists.

In a breathtaking operation facilitated by the Mi-17 helicopters, 28-year-old Crasto, a para commando of the Indian Army, was helidropped into the trolley and rescued each passenger, getting them winched up one by one by the hovering copters.

His mid-air bravado earned him the Kirti Chakra.


Yup. Got out of a helicopter, in mid air, got onto a trolley and then helps people from that into a helicopter. Crazy guts.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby JE Menon » 21 Aug 2014 01:21

^^Incredible... Sengar & Crasto!!!

Effing hell...

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rahul M » 21 Aug 2014 01:52

guess who was that chopper pilot ?
someone we know as ACM FH Major.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Surya » 21 Aug 2014 01:53

karan thanks

source please

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby JE Menon » 21 Aug 2014 10:08

Rahul M wrote:guess who was that chopper pilot ?
someone we know as ACM FH Major.


WHAT??? - This is turning out to be like Amar Akbar Antony!!! Incredible....

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ravip » 21 Aug 2014 10:43

Rahul M wrote:guess who was that chopper pilot ?
someone we know as ACM FH Major.


This incident earned him, to be the only Heli Pilot as Chief of Air Staff, Indian Air Force.
Last edited by ravip on 21 Aug 2014 12:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ks_sachin » 21 Aug 2014 10:59

Col Crasto is now in Australia and works as a School Teacher.

Met him last year..

Very nice unassuming family..

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby deejay » 21 Aug 2014 11:25

ravip wrote:
Rahul M wrote:guess who was that chopper pilot ?
someone we know as ACM FH Major.


This incident earned him, to be the only Heli Pilot to be Chief of Air Staff, Indian Air Force.


@ravip: There is much more to that story. ACM FH Major was awarded the Shaurya Chakra for this. The cable car rescue story needs to be read. http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/tourists-find-themselves-suspended-between-life-and-death-in-timber-trail-mountain/1/308004.html

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ks_sachin » 21 Aug 2014 11:54

Is Flt Lt P Upadhayay the India Today article later the Dhruv Test Pilot?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby deejay » 21 Aug 2014 12:29

ks_sachin wrote:Is Flt Lt P Upadhayay the India Today article later the Dhruv Test Pilot?


Can't be sure about that but you sure have eagle eyes :).

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby jamwal » 21 Aug 2014 14:48

Source of the Deependra Singh Sengar story.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/bindair- ... 9117838107

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 22 Aug 2014 00:20

Thanks Jamwal

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rohitvats » 22 Aug 2014 15:24

Oh well! Father was posted to Base Hospital Guwahati in 1998 when this fellow was brought in...heard his story but not all the details. And Col Crasto was Commandant Junior Leaders Academy in Bareilly when we moved there. I had read about the story of cable car rescue and one day, walked up to him to shake his hand. A very nice and polite and soft spoken gentleman.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rohitvats » 22 Aug 2014 15:25

BTW, the unit in the story is 1 Para SF.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 25 Aug 2014 14:14

^^^ Sir bit confused about your objection..

The picture is from a pakdef forum yes..But was posted by an Indian origin member.

Do you object to the picture? or that the picture was on a pakistani site and i used that as the source url?

Lastly how does it matter which server is hosting the picture...as long as the picture is credible and relevant?!

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Raja Bose » 25 Aug 2014 17:42

Reading Sengar's story, its :shock: :shock: even by Para Cdo standards. I have fwded this to Microsoft groups so that some SDREs can have the privilege of meeting him.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby A Sharma » 09 Sep 2014 05:35

Pics: NSG commandos conduct mock drill in Gurgaon following threat from Al-Qaeda
More here
Image

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby vic » 09 Sep 2014 15:23

MP5 are very very poor weapon for terrorist threat. It is okay for a "police"action against amateur criminal or wannabee novice terrorist but against a terrorist trained by Pak SF is little less than useless. MP5 and Beretta 9mm are useless super costly imported junk foisted on our forces to the Rs 1500 crores.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 09 Sep 2014 15:41

^^^ lol and i thought we would be back to the great "helmet" debate again.

Anyways wrt the MP-5 - It is still the #1 choice for room clearing / taking down an Airplane, Bus, Train etc. Yes there are better options out there like the MP-7, UMP, etc but honestly there is nothing wrong with an MP-5 so no need to fix the SMG option. At Close range Operators such as the NSG should be taking headshots and a 9mm round gets the same end result.

Almost all CT Units in the world today deploying for a CQB op will be outfitted with the MP-5 (or similar SMG type weapon), includes the SEALS/ Delta / SAS, etc.

Quote from a def mag on the MP-5
" In the late 1980s most military Spec Ops units had found that while the MP5
was the arm of choice for room combat or house clearing, if faced with combat outdoors where the range was beyond 25 meters, the 9x19mm round soon lost steam and at 100 meters or more, it was sadly lacking.If faced with a bad guy across an airstrip or a city
block away, the MP5 was a poor choice. The Spec Ops units realized that the added range and lethality of a 5.56mm caliber weapon was a decided advantage"

http://www.tacticalmedicine.com/files/BGun2009.pdf

For the above the NSG has operators armed with the SIG series of AR/Carbines.


I think the more interesting debate is - while we are expanding strength of our SOF units our operators are still running around with 1st Gen NVGs and 1st Gen Helmets.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby vic » 09 Sep 2014 16:19

Post deleted and user warned for personal attack on another poster. It has been impressed upon you up-teem times to mind your language and stop going around passing certificates to people. - rohitvats.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 09 Sep 2014 16:27

Wait did you just attack and label me as an "import lover" instead of engaging in debate??

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby member_20453 » 09 Sep 2014 17:07

MP-5 and is indeed sadly inadequate, for room clearing, better options exist, ideally they can quickly wrap up testing of MSMC and order it in great numbers, ideal replacement for a 9mm submachine gun. The MP-5 is good but for 9mm, they can order more Berretta MX-4 which is better than the MP-5 (only take it away from BSF) a full fledged border fighting force using 9mm pop gun is rather silly. The distances are always far enough at the border for them to atleast use a 5.56mm proper rifle or even better a 7.26/62 rifle ideally the multicaliber puppy. The MX-4 Storm can also fire the .45 caliber round, ideal replacement for NSG.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Surya » 09 Sep 2014 17:31

rkhanna - what do you know - vic has years of experience - so keep quiet :D

comments needed urgently on different sets of shoes in the picture- so ungainly - must be import lobby too

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Multatuli » 09 Sep 2014 17:57

Rahul M wrote (page 79):

Guess who was that chopper pilot ?
Someone we know as ACM FH Major.


Here is a picture of the helicopter and the trolley during the rescue.

https://www.facebook.com/Himachal.Publi ... e=1&ref=nf

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby vaibhav.n » 10 Sep 2014 07:50

Those helmets are US-95's made by an Austrian Company Ulbrichts. They are also used by the GSG9.

The MP5 is by far the most successful SMG the modern world has seen using one of the most common 9mm Pistol Calibre. They do somewhat trade volume of fire for better accuracy but a fine firearm nonetheless. The Pawkey SSG trained mujahids are not embedded with any lead evading holy movements. What makes they somewhat formidable during combat is actually their dope induced state!!

The SIG 550 series rifles are acknowledged as probably the most beautifully engineered and accurate 5.56mm Rifles. One of the reason, even decades later they still command such a premium position and reputation. Look from where they started and what successive iterations have given them.

I wish the same could be said of the INSAS.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 10 Sep 2014 08:04

discovery channel has a show called Revealed:LOC on our border security forces. saw two mins of it...had some tavor armed unit practising a door break and cleanup sequence using a small charge.

btw the tfta G36 has suffered numerous problems of overheating under full-auto use in afghanistan and becomes inaccurate at 200m and off-zero due to warping thus. some ISAF units moved from G36 to other weapons like M4 after finding this problem.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 10 Sep 2014 09:45

Those helmets are US-95's made by an Austrian Company Ulbrichts. They are also used by the GSG9.


Thanks for the info..Very interesting didnt know that. I thought the NSG was simply wrapping their old helmets in fabric.

EDIT: Just checked with Google uncle it seems like GSG-9 is also transitioning to the FAST type of helmets..

The MP5 is by far the most successful SMG the modern world has seen using one of the most common 9mm Pistol Calibre. They do somewhat trade volume of fire for better accuracy but a fine firearm nonetheless. The Pawkey SSG trained mujahids are not embedded with any lead evading holy movements. What makes they somewhat formidable during combat is actually their dope induced state!!


ALL SF CT/HRT Units military or police have SMGs in their orbat. A Case can be made to upgrading the SMG within our forces to MP-7 or UMPs which if i remember reading correctly are cheaper than the MP-5 due to their manufacturing process. But then ofcourse I am a "phoren Lover"

I wish the same could be said of the INSAS


Lol oh ohhh.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 10 Sep 2014 10:36

I think its better to have the ears and back of neck be covered....the uber cool high cut BMX x-games helmets might leave room for comms gear but will not protect from a grenade going off ....jihadis in our patch are armed to gunwales with grenades as the periodic throws into lal chowk srinagar prove.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 10 Sep 2014 15:03

I think its better to have the ears and back of neck be covered....the uber cool high cut BMX x-games helmets might leave room for comms gear but will not protect from a grenade going off ....jihadis in our patch are armed to gunwales with grenades as the periodic throws into lal chowk srinagar prove.


Well true but just as an intellectual debate the FAST helmets are modular and provide operators with more flexibility in gear and protection (not just comms).. You can add on Soft Armour to cover the ears if deemed so.

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/8445/opsfbshell3.jpg

Also Most operators currently using them are in High Risk Zones (i.e USSOCOM, etc). Sure there are plus and minus on both sides but there must be a logical reason SOF units have gravitated towards these kind of helmets.


One thing i have noticed (Army SF, Marcos, etc etc) in our need to modernize (westernize?) our SF units we have been adopting Technologies from a decade and half ago instead of Leapfrogging the "forgotten years" and getting up to date with Kit. Ofcourse $$$ is a big factor considering our SOF type units are expanding like its going out of style.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby member_20453 » 10 Sep 2014 17:39

^^^^^

+1 nice pic, didn't know FAST could have such different set of accessories, these would be very nice to have for all our forces, various possibilties, ease of use/integration, commonality come to mind.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 10 Sep 2014 20:27

+1 nice pic, didn't know FAST could have such different set of accessories, these would be very nice to have for all our forces, various possibilties, ease of use/integration, commonality come to mind.


IMO with their low profile could definitely find place with our tank and bmp crews.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Surya » 10 Sep 2014 21:22

The SIG 550 series rifles are acknowledged as probably the most beautifully engineered and accurate 5.56mm Rifles. One of the reason, even decades later they still command such a premium position and reputation. Look from where they started and what successive iterations have given them.



agreed

Its funny how our related sources have the same view :mrgreen:

the SIG is much loved

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby koti » 10 Sep 2014 21:35

vic wrote:MP5 are very very poor weapon for terrorist threat. It is okay for a "police"action against amateur criminal or wannabee novice terrorist but against a terrorist trained by Pak SF is little less than useless. MP5 and Beretta 9mm are useless super costly imported junk foisted on our forces to the Rs 1500 crores.

MP5s maybe poor for CI in jungles. But for a QCB Urban threat, they are much safer and better suited. Both in terms of their penetration when it comes to possible civilian presence, their low recoil in delivering accurate low range automatic firepower.

It can be argued whether the MTAR, Criss, Vityaz or our MSMC are better then MP5 but having something with more traditional power may not be suitable.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby koti » 10 Sep 2014 21:43

Septimus P. wrote:MP-5 and is indeed sadly inadequate, for room clearing, better options exist, ideally they can quickly wrap up testing of MSMC and order it in great numbers, ideal replacement for a 9mm submachine gun. The MP-5 is good but for 9mm, they can order more Berretta MX-4 which is better than the MP-5 (only take it away from BSF) a full fledged border fighting force using 9mm pop gun is rather silly. The distances are always far enough at the border for them to atleast use a 5.56mm proper rifle or even better a 7.26/62 rifle ideally the multicaliber puppy. The MX-4 Storm can also fire the .45 caliber round, ideal replacement for NSG.

I never liked the look of Mx-4. It had a fair share of teething problems for an expensive platform too. MSMC has a lot to prove when compared to modern 9mm systems.
It is a pity that we still manufacture the venerable Sterlings when our neighbors domestically make MP5s.

I never was able to swallow how a CI force like BSF thought MX-4 was better then Insas but I may be missing a lot of information on that decision.

vaibhav.n
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 575
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby vaibhav.n » 10 Sep 2014 21:53

Surya wrote:agreed

Its funny how our related sources have the same view :mrgreen:

the SIG is much loved



:D

Surya Sir,

The SIG is indeed. If you go there now you will see brand new Renault Sherpa's in all black. Those monsters come with a Mind-Blasting 5 Litre engine, sure to make any Gearhead go weak in the knees.
Last edited by vaibhav.n on 10 Sep 2014 22:00, edited 1 time in total.

rkhanna
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 10 Sep 2014 21:57

@vic OT i dont know what your damage is but feel i should answer you

NOW he hides behind fake indignation of a import lover to further his own import love views.


Sir you dont know me nor I you. We have not had interaction on this forum before. I was debating the merits of SMGs within SOF orbats. Outside of MSMC we dont make SMGs in India. The question of Import vs domestic didnt come up.

As for my "Fake indignation" I remarked with exclamation at your knee jerk rant on the internet.

If you love imports, whats the objection in being called import lover.


You can call me whatever you want. It doesnt bother me. I have no objection to some random body calling me whatever he/she wishes to call me over the internet. I was just surprised at being attacked for posting a comment.

For the record since this IS a Special Forces thread i would like to point out that this is one domain where the scandalous topic of "Import" is a non issue. ALL special forces units world wide IMPORT the best gear they can afford (or can) for their SOF units. Americans, Europeans, Chinese, Russians........ Shelling out mediocre INSAS to SOF units simply because it has a made in india chapa is counter productive. Other parts/branches of the Military I agree.

I am not calling you import pimp because that might be objectionable. And yes, i have quite a bit of experience with small arms. Off course superexpert rohitvats is on each and every thread encouraging imports but hates being called import lover.


Sirji I too have some experience with Small Arms. I got my small arms instruction from USMC and AirForce small arms instructors. But i still dont see how that is relevant for YOU to be judging the NSG on operating the MP-5 over the INSAS.


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