Discussion on Indian Special Forces

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 27 Jan 2015 03:47

rohitvats wrote:
Karan M wrote:singha apparently 2 french units took part. they have their own overcomplex structure of which units handle what but both did well.


Actually, it is pretty simple if you read the blog link posted above.

GIGN is part of what can be termed as Military Police; and MP here were historically meant to tackle situation above the threshold of police but short of calling in the Army. It is something like our CRPF but with more active involvement in the state affairs. So, French created a SF for CT/HRT Ops from this force. And the Army has its own special force unit like other armies.

And given the background of GIGN, they are more tightly integrated with their armed forces as well. And train on all aspects like HAHO/HALO.

The other units mentioned in the blog are from national police force. While GIGN is centralized, the others are spread in smaller teams across all regions of France. Something like SWAT support for police action(s). But as their action footage showed, they're trained to a higher level than your SWAT in US and are not only about special weapons and actions but active policing to keep tab on high value threats like organized crime, narcotics and now, terrorists. French can put together a team of 20-30 such personnel in their regions to handle such contingency. And GIGN can either come in later or handle more pressing matter.

We've tried to do this through NSG hubs; it would always have been better if 100-120 member team from local police would've been trained and detailed for such tasks. Even with 50% of NSG training.


Disagree its simple. Its still 3 units & all essentially doing the same thing. What happens when there are multiple attacks and C3I becomes an issue? Its all well when there were just two groups with a few people across France.

They have GIGN + RAID/Local Region Swats with RAID/Region SWAT reporting to the police authority.
GIGN and RAID both took part in the ops with region SWAT as backup.

Still overcomplex. GIGN+RAID can be trained to differing standards etc. Easier to have them both combined. But hey. it worked for the French.
So far. GIGN itself has had to be expanded with additional units to bring it up to strength.

Reason French etc can get away with such whimsicality, multiple units, overlap, all funded to high levels is because terror for them (till recently) was mostly on expeditionary employment. I guess after the mass shootings they are realizing quantity has a quality of its own.

Good PR apart, the Hebdo attacks were a perfect case of intelligence failure and disastrous initial response.

If that had happened in India or some Arab, non western country, it would have been marked out as third world stuff.

Lesson for us is (hopefully) we have all regions of responsibility and national command structure earmarked with each group knowing what its AOR is & common drills and coordination.

At 26/11, NSG & Marcos could not operate together because of differing training & drills.

That issue will remain with region/local police force. At best, as first responders they can pin the attackers in place. Ultimately, for well trained and committed attackers, NSG or Military SF have to do the job. Which begs the question whether there is a nationwide common training curriculum for NSG/ArmySF/SG/Garud and Marcos so all can operate together for CQB and room clearing.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 27 Jan 2015 03:51

rohitvats wrote:We've tried to do this through NSG hubs; it would always have been better if 100-120 member team from local police would've been trained and detailed for such tasks. Even with 50% of NSG training.


The 50% per se in terms of training wont work. CQB and SWAT ops will require huge consistent investment so that the local ops guys have to be pretty good if not equivalent to NSG. Reason you cant skimp is because simply put, terror attacks are about propaganda. While so so trained first responders may stop further civilian casualties, their own deaths become part of the propaganda effect, which after all, is the end result of these terror attacks. If a terror attack say wipes out an entire company strength of Mumbai SWAT, then its served its purpose.

Bottomline, NSG/IA SF themselves have to upscale and train many of these SWAT teams and bring them to a nationwide consistent standard.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Sid » 27 Jan 2015 04:47

Singha wrote:those NSG who have fitted bipods for watch duty seem to have fitted a reflex sight kind of thing atop the weapon.


Thats an ACOG scope not reflex sight. Good for medium ranges.

But PSG 1 is a much better sniper rifle, why go for this solution?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 27 Jan 2015 07:47

cost and weight I think. PSG1 is said to be very expensive. some use the cheaper derivative called MSG90. and the SIG can be used as a normal mobile rifle with the bipod removed, the PSG1/MSG90/Dragunov cannot.

btw almost every state capital has some swat kind of unit now in india. they are loosely called 'police commandoes' though more creative names like 'black panthers' are also used in assam. MH has them for sure(Force One).
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/photo/15165862.cms
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/f ... e62066.ece

atleast they have modern guns and BPJs and will suffer far less in a stand up fight with a band of ak54 jihadis than outgunned local police.

all of them have been trained by NSG people I suppose. atleast none can waltz in now, create prolonged mayhem in a big city and take advantage of nobody being around to contest their space. we have tightened the perimeter and raised the cost now of trying another 26/11 type signature move.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Prem Kumar » 27 Jan 2015 08:38

^ The next terror attack may not be in a Tier 1 city. Especially after the recent Porbandar CG fiasco for ISI

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 27 Jan 2015 08:47

yes there are surely a lot of large tier2 cities of around 10-15L pop....probably 50 such cities in the land.

no defence is fool proof in such a large and porous country. the best defence is offense and keep hammering their cells and sympathizers on a proactive basis..keep them off balance and on the run 24x7....show no mercy.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby jayaaren » 27 Jan 2015 10:16

Karan ji,
pls correct me if wrong. thought that the French have a possible hierarchy as follows:
GIGN part of the National Gendarmerie and thus Armed Forces somewhat akin to our NSG
RAID part of the French National Police - we have no such units
GIPN part also part of the French National Police aka regional SWAT - we have units attached to certain state police forces

Our Chai Pe Charcha friends have a set up as follows:
FBI HRT
FBI SWAT
City specific SWAT
Roughly on the same line as the French

Note that first responders are always the beat cops/local police based out a local police station who are neither trained nor equipped to handle a 26/11. A lesson as you rightly pointed out the French learned the hard way in Charlie Hebdo (the policeman shot on the sidewalk). In comparison, beat cops of major American cities seem better trained. Maybe cause of better firearms training? So unless these beat cops are better trained, we will continue to see repeats of 26/11 casualties among the cops. We can have a whole plethora of units but as various BRFites have continually pointed out tactics matter more than weapons

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 27 Jan 2015 10:20

- many american cops are ex-army/or active in national guard on the side/gunnery enthusiasts as a personal hobby
- they have access to shotguns and M16 and I guess get some practice time on them
- police depts across usa have been cheaply given surplus army weapons like glock pistols and rifles after 9/11

same cannot be said of most euro or asian cops with respect to rifle skills I suppose. hitting someone with a pistol from 50 feet away is probably not easy, esp if target is running...hitting a specific part of someone with a pistol is the realm of national HRT teams...

as with all situations khan believes in using heavy firepower and just moves to rifles and shotgun I guess to improve Pk over pistols...

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby jayaaren » 27 Jan 2015 12:31

Singha ji,

If I recall correctly, the inadequacy of the local police force was pointed out in an India Today issue during the Terror in Punjab. The ill equipped policeman was cited as a factor in the rise of Terror there. 26/11 simply put the issue out over the TV. Sad to say that the situation continues. Local police are neither equipped nor trained to respond to an armed threat. Firearms training given after recruitment is simply not repeated enough. In a day and age when organized crime has access to firearms the police are way out of their league. Our police forces do not even have to undergo firearms requalification tests.

Force1 seems at best a haphazard response to 26/11. Simply having a unit set up with shooters does not work. Tactics & Equipment make the difference. If a hostage situation akin to 26/11 develops, Force1 is simply a first responder with a greater deal of firepower than the local cop. When the NSG gets to the situation site, it would have to start from scratch as Force1 does not seem to possess even rudimentary intel collection equipment or undergone training. Now the same is true for even basic police functions like crime scene investigation, local cops all over a crime scene not even bothering to secure the same. They cant be blamed cause they were not trained for it. End result is lack of evidence collection and a scientific methodical investigation resulting in low conviction rates. Oh and lack of separate investigating wing is also a factor. Now when you take it in the CT context, the end result is multiplied a 100 times. It is sad and frustrating to see that Terrorism which is invariably linked to Crime continues to be tackled in way that pickpockets and thieves are handled by both state governments and the central government.

I have yet to see any of our Security Experts discuss this on the various talk shows out on TV or other forum. As for our elected representatives, the less said the better. No one has talked never mind taking any action on countering the Terror threat by equipping our state or central agencies or forces. Simply saying that "They need to be better equipped" or saying "We have increased the budget allocation" is not enough. We have parliamentary standing committees on many things but none on CT. All of this simply because National Security is not on anyone's agenda save for forums such as BR or the few Think Tanks that we have.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 27 Jan 2015 13:18

^^^^ Force1 is now a shell of what it was set up to be. Outside of sitting around outside Mantralaya they dont do anything else. the fancy equipment is all Gone. Most cops have now rotated out. it is considered a dead end posting with few takers..

Force1's creation was simply a shockandawe for political postering and nothing more.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby shyamd » 30 Jan 2015 01:25

A nation like India needs to have a 3 layered response strategy.

Loosely trained armed police - bobby on the beat >> district or city level highly trained armed police. Received training for hostage situations and terror attack. Maybe 20. >>>> NSG or SF is your last point of call.

Home ministry hasn't got local police or armed police up to scratch yet. They'll still rely on local military teams for support

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby KiranM » 30 Jan 2015 17:52

Interesting tidbits from Lt Gen Katoch on Op BlueStar in this Telegraph Article. Although he seems to have a low opinion about Special Group.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 30 Jan 2015 18:03

.
Although he seems to have a low opinion about Special Group


Well thats sort of standard in India. The Regular Army has low opinion of SF today . Every commander in India believes his Ghatak platoon is as good .. the regular para's believe they are as good as the SF guys and hence deserve the SF allowances...

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rohitvats » 30 Jan 2015 18:07

rkhanna wrote:.
Although he seems to have a low opinion about Special Group


Well thats sort of standard in India. The Regular Army has low opinion of SF today . Every commander in India believes his Ghatak platoon is as good .. the regular para's believe they are as good as the SF guys and hence deserve the SF allowances...


You're making an unrelated statement.

Katoch is talking about an incident from 1984 when SG was still forming up while Para Cdo battalions had been in existence for donkey years. And more so, 1 Para Cdo was where all the experiments for Para Cdo fraternity were done. It was after all, AHQ reserve and was the first one to be modeled on SAS structure.

Today, SG takes 'volunteers' from Para SF (and other units from the IA), makes them go through a probation and then accepts them.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 30 Jan 2015 18:23

no matter how good the unit, if you just 'throw bodies' at a problem without any prep as mentioned in the article, its going to be painful.

a platoon of regular US army or national guard could have taken down Osama's TSP rest house easily. the whole success of the op was in choosing the right time, imagery of target and making the ingress and egress safely(EW,SOAR pilots,threats on the hotline). so beyond a point its no longer the unit but time, context, recce, tactics, direction from up.

I am sure we never had any means in bluestar to see through walls, locate strongpoints, drones for thermal and tv coverage at night, remote control vehicles to detonated charges etc.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 30 Jan 2015 19:05

Katochs comment matches the other guys who took part in Blue Star and their assessment of the SG op. Way too little prep and too many casualties. :(

Wonder why they were chosen if Paras were there?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby jamwal » 30 Jan 2015 20:01

What are SSB and BSF troops doing in Dilli ?
Saw quite a few armed with their funny new Beretta guns today.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 30 Jan 2015 21:23

Karan M wrote:Katochs comment matches the other guys who took part in Blue Star and their assessment of the SG op. Way too little prep and too many casualties. :(

Wonder why they were chosen if Paras were there?


the home minister at the time was the uncontroversial PC Sethi. PVN succeeded him about a month after bluestar, so it does not sound like he would force his unit onto the operation unilaterally.

sometimes turf wars mean people are set up to fail, so maybe someone wanted SG to fail at the time and seeded the idea deftly in a high council. once IG bought in, none would have dared to countermand it and anyways the top brass were busy planning for a full blown war if TSP decided to make a move.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rohitvats » 31 Jan 2015 12:17

jamwal wrote:What are SSB and BSF troops doing in Dilli ?
Saw quite a few armed with their funny new Beretta guns today.


Both have camps/battalions around Delhi.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rohitvats » 31 Jan 2015 12:35

Singha wrote:<SNIP>a platoon of regular US army or national guard could have taken down Osama's TSP rest house easily. <SNIP>


I disagree with the above assertion.

I think part of your assumption is basis the knowledge we now have about the strength of resistance inside the camp. As you rightly said, a platoon of Marines/NG could have taken down. And which I'm sure they were doing quite regularly in Iraq and Afghanistan.

But it comes to such high value targets, you don't take chances and will send your best men; men who have mental make-up and training to deal with situations as and when they arrive. Just look at the way Para Cdo chaps fought in Jaffna University versus the men from Sikh LI. That aside, I once saw a program on Discovery where they were pitching 2-man teams from various armies and units (from US) for undertaking some tasks. I remember one episode where there the two teams comprised of men from Green Berets and US Marine+Russian paratrooper, respectively. The latter team was working together with a private contractor to DOD in Iraq.

Long story short - the Green Beret were very deliberate in their planning, movement and action. The second team did work to a plan but the planning was more rigid, matter-of-fact and they failed to adapt during tasks. Three things stood out in the tasks - the SF guys fired far lesser number of shots on target, had much higher kills (double tap system) and always had the big picture in mind. The last part helped them to change and adapt when the referee changed some parameters mid-way. Looking at them going about their task(s), one cannot but appreciate that everything about being a SF operator gets ingrained in the person. It's like a feline going about a hunt. Everything is in the DNA and comes naturally - of course, the skills are enhanced through regular practice.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 14 Feb 2015 18:53

Garud Force - 606 Squadron (???)

Image

MARCOS:

Image

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Surya » 14 Feb 2015 19:31

not sure what the story is behind the leopard but don't like it being displayed like a trophy

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rohitvats » 14 Feb 2015 19:54

Surya wrote:not sure what the story is behind the leopard but don't like it being displayed like a trophy


Seems like marksmen from the outfit might have helped to take the leopard down.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby member_20067 » 14 Feb 2015 23:13

is it in the outskirts of Mumbai which is known from stray leopard...? but agree does not look good to show it as a trophy...this is not pre-world war 2 era

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 15 Feb 2015 20:05

photo is probably from a long time back, judging by the looks of it...

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rohitvats » 15 Feb 2015 23:45

Just finished reading this book by Sandeep Unnithan:

Black Tornado: The Three Sieges of Mumbai 26/11

http://www.amazon.in/Black-Tornado-The-Military-Operations-ebook/dp/B00PFWH4RU

Good book which gives a peep into the operations side of the siege at the three locations; gives good data points about planning, actual operation, challenges and others aspects.

It will give you insight into NSG of 2008 and what all we lacked. From equipment to training to bureaucratic muddle.

Let me share few anecdotes:

- Terrorists managed to navigate their way around the city because of GPS way-points recorded and supplied by David Headley. This included where exactly the zodiac boat should land first in Mumbai to deliver the cargo of 8 men which hit Taj (04), CST(02) and Nariman House (02).

- The GPS of the location in the sea, ~4 kms outside Mumbai, where terrorists transferred from MS Kuber to Zodiac boat was again recorded by Headley. He had done the recce by sea of areas where the transfer could happen and where the terrorists should land.

- Plan to hit 'Matoshree' - residence of BT was dropped at his insistence as he was not sure of a team's ability to travel 15km from drop point to the residence in Bandra (E).

- LET plan till mid 2007 was a two-man hit and run on some high profile target; was changed to actual form basis intelligence from Headley as well as 'power shift' (as he calls it) in Pakistan. Kayani - ex-DG ISI - taking over reins from Musharraf as COAS.

- Example of BRF ahead of the curve: LET was desperate for such high visibility attack as it's cadre were getting restless and wanted to fight USA in Afghanistan. SSridhar had written quite extensively on BRF about LET having difficulty keeping the flock together against more 'pure' outfits. Hat-tip to you, Sir.

- Kasab and his buddy were intended to take hostages and lay siege in CST but a mistake made them hit the road.

- NSG did not have enough 'scooter helmets' to give to entire 51 SAG!

It is lacking in some details and finer aspects but overall a good book to get an account of this episode. Strongly recomended.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 23 Feb 2015 11:25

Navy submarine INS Sindhughosh collides with fishing boat, suffers periscope damage participating in naval exercise Tropex (Theatre Readiness Operational Level Exercise) in the Arabian Sea
excerpts
"The submarine was practicing 'special boat section' operation during which divers swim out of its torpedo tubes with a Gemini boat to carry out a covert land operation on land. It was pitch-dark when the operation was being carried out close to the coastline, south of Mumbai," said an official.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 335295.cms


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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ArmenT » 23 Feb 2015 12:25

wig wrote:Navy submarine INS Sindhughosh collides with fishing boat, suffers periscope damage participating in naval exercise Tropex (Theatre Readiness Operational Level Exercise) in the Arabian Sea
excerpts
"The submarine was practicing 'special boat section' operation during which divers swim out of its torpedo tubes with a Gemini boat to carry out a covert land operation on land. It was pitch-dark when the operation was being carried out close to the coastline, south of Mumbai," said an official.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 335295.cms

How come the sub didn't see the fishing boat? Was the fishing boat also running without lights? If so, I'd question whether it was just a fishing boat or doing some other side business as well.

Also, is there some facility for IN to tell all local fishermen to stay off a particular area due to training exercises.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ravip » 23 Feb 2015 12:25

rohitvats wrote:Just finished reading this book by Sandeep Unnithan:

Black Tornado: The Three Sieges of Mumbai 26/11

http://www.amazon.in/Black-Tornado-The-Military-Operations-ebook/dp/B00PFWH4RU

Good book which gives a peep into the operations side of the siege at the three locations; gives good data points about planning, actual operation, challenges and others aspects.

It will give you insight into NSG of 2008 and what all we lacked. From equipment to training to bureaucratic muddle.

Let me share few anecdotes:

- Terrorists managed to navigate their way around the city because of GPS way-points recorded and supplied by David Headley. This included where exactly the zodiac boat should land first in Mumbai to deliver the cargo of 8 men which hit Taj (04), CST(02) and Nariman House (02).

- The GPS of the location in the sea, ~4 kms outside Mumbai, where terrorists transferred from MS Kuber to Zodiac boat was again recorded by Headley. He had done the recce by sea of areas where the transfer could happen and where the terrorists should land.

- Plan to hit 'Matoshree' - residence of BT was dropped at his insistence as he was not sure of a team's ability to travel 15km from drop point to the residence in Bandra (E).

- LET plan till mid 2007 was a two-man hit and run on some high profile target; was changed to actual form basis intelligence from Headley as well as 'power shift' (as he calls it) in Pakistan. Kayani - ex-DG ISI - taking over reins from Musharraf as COAS.

- Example of BRF ahead of the curve: LET was desperate for such high visibility attack as it's cadre were getting restless and wanted to fight USA in Afghanistan. SSridhar had written quite extensively on BRF about LET having difficulty keeping the flock together against more 'pure' outfits. Hat-tip to you, Sir.

- Kasab and his buddy were intended to take hostages and lay siege in CST but a mistake made them hit the road.

- NSG did not have enough 'scooter helmets' to give to entire 51 SAG!

It is lacking in some details and finer aspects but overall a good book to get an account of this episode. Strongly recomended.


I found it too boring, i completed reading it in 4hrs. There is nothing new other than what is there in the public domain. I was expecting some interesting facts which he promised before the launch, but turned out to be dampener.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ravip » 23 Feb 2015 12:37

ArmenT wrote:How come the sub didn't see the fishing boat? Was the fishing boat also running without lights? If so, I'd question whether it was just a fishing boat or doing some other side business as well.

Also, is there some facility for IN to tell all local fishermen to stay off a particular area due to training exercises.


May be the boat might have switched off the engine and had laid the anchor and was drifting to fish. Along with this if it was a wooden boat then it create's a perfect circumstances which prevents detection by sonar. If it was so it is a lesson well learnt, it will help in improving our defences and can also be used against our enemies.

As to why the sub didn't see the Boat, may be the periscope was facing shore and the boat came from behind preventing the periscope officer to lower it in time.

Normally locations of exercises are not informed, unless there is use of weapons.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby deejay » 23 Feb 2015 19:57

The AI 2015 had a Garud contingent positioned for taking on threats beyond normal security duties.

Earlier I had posted that they may not have seen any action or ops, I politely take that back with apologies to the Garud.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 25 Feb 2015 09:38

how are the garuds trained - on their own or with the army/navy/nsg units?

maybe I am being uber critical but somehow they look very well armed and dressed but do not bear the marks and scars of being out in the field and having to manage as the pix of army SF (having much less cool gear) on this same thread show.

are they more like RAF regiment/base SWAT than a field SF unit?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 25 Feb 2015 10:44

^^ Read the article i posted above.

Critical Infrastructure Security (High Value Targets) is a secondary requirement of Garud. They are a full fledged SpecOps unit who's primary tasks are Combat Controllers, CSAR, SEAD/DEAD Missions, Close Target Recon (CTR), as well as taking Enemy Airfields.

Obviously since they have been raised to operate in an Aviation Environment deploying them in COIN would be pointless. Yes they have their own Training school but undergo Para Training and Combat Diver Training in the respective schools.

1 Observation:

Watching all the newer (last 2-3 year videos) of MARCOS/Para SF/ Garud my armchair eyes see that the Garud seem to have better muzzle discipline, have adopted the newer Western Shooting stance as compared to the older SOFs in India which have evolved their tactics/SOP organically. (Obviously not commenting on their execution or shooting Abilities).

Similar Observation for the NSG post 26/11 btw

The 1st Batch of Garud was trained across 2-3 different countries and NSG recently did a stint with GSG-9 post 26/11 - maybe thats where the influence comes from???

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 25 Feb 2015 11:35

hopefully they also x-train with the parachute regiment, that way could function as the us army rangers in para borne ops maybe.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 25 Feb 2015 11:48

deploying them in COIN would mean battle experience. thats invaluable in its own right. embedding Garuds with Army SF, SG, Marcos should be done as a priority.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby KiranM » 25 Feb 2015 11:50

I have my reservations on the airfield seizure role. They do not have the numbers to seize an entire airfield. Rangers typically deploy at least a Battalion for the purpose. They can take out certain HVTs within an airfield given their SF nature.
Ideally, a Para (not SF) Bn not part of the Ind. Para Bgde should be tasked for this role, with Garuds being their eyes and guides for the assault.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 25 Feb 2015 13:37

deploying them in COIN would mean battle experience. thats invaluable in its own right. embedding Garuds with Army SF, SG, Marcos should be done as a priority.


Sirji.. Only one thing is going to make that possible. (key stress on the embedded part) it is a Joint SpeOps Command and Unified Military Command (CDS?).

AFAIK even Marcos and SF dont Intermix even on deputation for deployment (training yes). I know of a video of SF and MARCOS conducting joint training.

I have my reservations on the airfield seizure role


Yes a SF team cannot take an entire airport in Isolation but an Airfield (FOB) is possible. Also even if Garud can take down an Airport/Airfield, Holding it will be a different ball game - Will have to be in conjunction with the Para's . And post take over Garud will be needed to man the ATC Tower at the very least.

There has been a video of Garud practising deploying from a C-130 and taking and airfield and the C130 does a quick landing and turn around. I assume that exercise was for such an operation

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 25 Feb 2015 13:48

>>AFAIK even Marcos and SF dont Intermix even on deputation for deployment (training yes). I know of a video of SF and MARCOS conducting joint training.

not talking of entire units deployed together. am speaking of operators from the org deputed to the other, interops, pick up experience etc

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 25 Feb 2015 14:01

No, i know what you meant.. But I have never heard of it happen on active deployment. For a training module maybe but not an Live Op. Way too much 'procedure' and 'ego' to make such a common sense thing a norm.

A SOC is a dire need of the hour along with a CDS.

ACM Tipnis recent article on the Kargil war (AF perspective) is enough reason on why the above is so desperately needed.


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