Discussion on Indian Special Forces

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Viv S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5303
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 00:46

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Viv S » 17 Jan 2016 02:45

They're training with US Navy EOD/SEALs, so quite likely that they're MARCOS.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18837
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 17 Jan 2016 02:50

Looks like for all the talk, NSG was not running drills with IA SF, hence Parrikar's recent directive for both to cooperate and make the IA jarnails pipe down. Makes one wonder as to how much of UPA's gyaan bazi was gas after all?
Bangalore for instance was supposed to be managed by IA SF (since Para center is in town) and NSG Hyderabad/Chennai hubs were ok.
But now in recent drills with local Garud types posted on forum, there is no IA SF presence and only NSG?!

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 17 Jan 2016 07:30

good point that.

KiranM
BRFite
Posts: 575
Joined: 17 Dec 2006 16:48
Location: Bangalore

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby KiranM » 17 Jan 2016 16:14

From various photos I have seen, only MARCOS sport the gold combat divers badge. IA SF sport the silver colour.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18837
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 17 Jan 2016 16:24

Singha wrote:good point that.


given bangalore's (in)famous traffic woes, so NSG has to be the savior, by when exactly?! i wouldn't expect garuda or whatever local SWAT is available to do any proper room clearing. meanwhile, IA SF is right around the corner (http://tarmak007.blogspot.in/2014/01/th ... their.html) but will have nothing to do?? I hope Jarnails take Parrikars directive seriously and start working with NSG seriously on clear Plan for whichever cities they have a presence.
Last edited by Karan M on 17 Jan 2016 16:45, edited 1 time in total.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18837
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 17 Jan 2016 16:31

This report stated 2SF would be covering South India.
http://tarmak007.blogspot.in/search/lab ... 0Predators

By Anantha Krishnan M | Express News Service
Bangalore:The Special Forces (SF) unit of the Indian Army based in Bangalore has quietly mapped all big government and private establishments in South India to act quickly and effectively in case of a terror strike. “We are ready to take off at very short notice and can be deployed in any part of South India,” its Commanding Officer, who did not wish to be identified, told Express.
Operating from a 180-acre erstwhile military farm, the unit is in regular touch with the Internal Security Division (ISD), Karnataka’s counter-terrorist police unit. The Special Forces unit was established in Bangalore five years ago in the wake of the 2008 Mumbai terror attacks, which claimed 164 lives.


Over these five years, the unit has prepared dossiers with detailed layouts of every major government, private and commercial establishment in the four southern states. These are stored in the form of satellite images, photos and maps at the unit. A few years ago, the SF team had done a mock drill on the 13th floor of Bangalore’s ITPL after entering the building through the 16th floor. It executed another mock drill at a Wipro unit.

In 2011, the unit collaborated with NSG Commandos and conducted security training at a Taj hotel.


In 2011, the unit went on a UN mission to South Sudan. “Our boys have done recce missions at almost all places in Bangalore which are VAVPs,” said the CO. In army terminology, VAVP stands for Vital Area, Vital Point. The unit has trained with the ISD and the two are geared to work together on specific inputs. “Mysore is also on our radar,” he said. Force-1, the elite special commando force of Maharashtra designed on the lines of NSG, was trained by the SF unit, while Karnataka’s ISD had sought its help.

An Army aviation unit using advanced light helicopter Dhruv makes regular visits to the unit. The Indian Air Force station in Yelahanka is the nearest air strip available for the SF to launch major missions.

Man Behind the Machine Counts: “Our main aim is to make the weapon and the man one identity. He needs to walk, run, sleep and jump with his equipment. It should be a part of his life. Finally, it is the man behind the machine that counts,” he said. SF operatives have many weapons of foreign origin which can be used for a variety of operations, ranging from a surgical strike to annihilation of a target as big as a football field.
Following the Mumbai attacks in 2008, the Central government created NSG hubs in Chennai, Hyderabad, Kolkota and Mumbai, while Bangalore got the SF unit. Bangalore’s increasing traffic has been the unit’s biggest enemy, and it seeks special clearances every time it carries out a routine exercise.


Our big issue is ad hoc-ism when an event occurs. Despite proactive work from IA SF above, is a SOP even in place stating who will handle what in Bangalore or Mysore or other places?

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3409
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 17 Jan 2016 21:26

Worst, even if the SOP were to be executed, the naysayers will parachute in first with "why was not NSG called in like Pathankot" and quote "unnamed officials" about the "displeasure of the NSA with the force after botch up" itiyadi :roll:

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 17 Jan 2016 21:30

i have noticed some tall office buildings have helipads like UB city , accenture on banerghatta road...is it a voluntary move to enable evac in case of a large fire ? is there some tax break for it?

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18837
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 17 Jan 2016 21:33

Aditya G wrote:Worst, even if the SOP were to be executed, the naysayers will parachute in first with "why was not NSG called in like Pathankot" and quote "unnamed officials" about the "displeasure of the NSA with the force after botch up" itiyadi :roll:


Exactly.. i seriously have lost a lot of patience with the barking mutts in the media who host a show on intolerance and dadri one evening and suddenly become experts on SF ops the next day.. their agenda is not even hidden anymore. Morons.

Anyhow, my big concern with this SF stuff is whether they are trained to the same nature of room clearing drills as NSG is and whether they can interoperate. That's the crux of the issue which prevented Marcos and NSG from working together in 26/11.

BharadwajV
BRFite
Posts: 116
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby BharadwajV » 17 Jan 2016 21:40

Karnataka's ISD was headed by our current NSA Shri.A.K Doval and the Garuda force was established under his guidance.
We have a Jehadi cesspool just a few hundred kilometres away (Bhatkal) for additional worries.
Can the Para SF use HAL owned choppers for emergency situations?
HAL has a few Dhruvs under it's control, IIRC...

Rajput
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 68
Joined: 18 Dec 2004 06:42
Location: Milky Way

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rajput » 17 Jan 2016 21:49

KiranM wrote:From various photos I have seen, only MARCOS sport the gold combat divers badge. IA SF sport the silver colour.


IA SF also supports the gold badge. I've seen it in person.

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3409
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 17 Jan 2016 22:02

BharadwajV wrote:Karnataka's ISD was headed by our current NSA Shri.A.K Doval and the Garuda force was established under his guidance....


This unfortunately is not good enough on the long run in a typical Indian setup.

NSG was setup by Col. MP Choudhary CO of the original Special Group by transferring two companies (squadrons?) lock stock and barrel which formed the core of the 51 and 52 SAGs. The same colonel later on was very critical of NSG's state.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18837
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 17 Jan 2016 22:42

I have a simple question... are all these forces training in common facilities even 4 times a year? So they share common drills and techniques and can interoperate and have proper SOPs which NSG can train them on? Are firearms standardized? Comms?

Instead, Israelis came and trained this, that guy set up that force, etc etc.

Ad hocism.

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3409
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 18 Jan 2016 00:54

Rajput wrote:
KiranM wrote:From various photos I have seen, only MARCOS sport the gold combat divers badge. IA SF sport the silver colour.


IA SF also supports the gold badge. I've seen it in person.


IN Badge seems to be silver or gold ...

Image

Image

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3409
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 18 Jan 2016 01:16

titbit from an article about Major Sudhir Walia.... FWIW

...

He was entrusted with important tasks, which included being sent on special secret missions to Pakistan. "It was not without reason that bhai was chosen for these difficult jobs. He had a flair for languages, he had mastered Persian and Sindhi. He was also an expert in the use of explosives and could easily decode the wireless messages of the militants," disclosed Arun, younger brother of Major Sudhir.

...

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18837
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 18 Jan 2016 03:31

24 Para SF veteran on his first firefight. What a read!

https://www.facebook.com/notes/bindair- ... ?pnref=lhc
Lolab
Bindair Dundat·Saturday, 24 October 2015

Take me down to Paradise city,
Where the grass is green and the girls are pretty

Lolab valley, Kupwara, Kashmir, November 1998
It always has amazed me how such a bewitchingly beautiful, idyllic narrow valley floor in the north western edge of Kashmir evokes the kind of contrasting responses from either end of the spectrum of men who were sworn to achieve dominance. One set, bound by both the written and unwritten rules of combat that a typical, professional Army respects. The other, bound if at all, only by the religious and ideological fanaticism that defines their existence.

I am not sure about the militants, but within our circuit, LOLAB was an acronym. It stood for Land Of Love And Beauty. The sweetest apples grew here, the prettiest girls lived here, the fiercest militants operate here. Frankly, I think it was as much a matter of ego at the functional level both for the Special Forces teams and the militants as it was a matter of operational and strategic criticality for the brass on either side to retain control over the Lolab valley. After all, this was the staging area of choice for the freshly inducted militants infiltrated from Pakistan, before they are moved down into the Kashmir bowl.

We had commenced climbing up the hill feature between Sogam and Chandigam villages in the Lolab valley in Kashmir at about 3 AM that morning. I was eager to be well within the depths of the forest above the middle track that typically runs along all the hill features in the area before the first rays of the morning sun started to find its way to the valley floor. Team Bravo had commenced their climb around midnight, up three clicks to the north. Their brief was to secure the top of the feature before first light, by the time we were in line with the middle track.

We had been climbing steadily for the last 4 hours. Laxman was in the lead, with Satte Singh backing him up as scout 2. Between the two of them, they had built up a fearsome, awe inspiring reputation of being the best in the business. And when you consider that their business was being the lead scouts for Special Forces teams in combat, that reputation is something that the uniformed fraternity revers. Together, they had refined the practice of their skill into an art form. It was nowhere more evident to me as a young Captain, as they led the way for the squad I was entrusted command with. Not a twig broke, nor was the crunch of a single dried leaf audible as they effortlessly negotiated the steep incline of the forest floor in North West Kashmir, that early autumn morning. Laxman and Satte going about their business with clinical perfection, pausing here to pick up the slightest sound wafting in through the forest, crouching there at the first hint of the possibility of ‘company’.

The rest of the 5 man squad were also combat hardened veterans. The folding stock of their VZ-58, the standard issue, Checkoslovakian origin weapon bore rough, crude hand made notches – indicative of the number of ‘kills’ claimed by each of them. Notches, that periodically and much to their anguish would be forcibly painted over by the unit armourer, in preparation for the annual weapon inspection. The inspection done, the guys would carve those notches right back on. There never was a requirement for supervision of this activity by their mates. They zealously live by their code of honour – never claim a kill that is not yours.


It happened in a flash. The transition from God’s paradise to Satan’s hell was as rapid as planned ambushes get; furious and violent. Only, it sucks to be at the receiving end of that metaphoric transition. BIG time! The first burst of fire opened up from the left flank, about 75 mtrs uphill from the middle track. Laxman Singh was the first to react, swinging his VZ-58 effortlessly to the left and up, in a controlled sweep and letting loose a long but controlled burst, in classic ‘first response’ fashion. The rest of us did what is almost second nature to us; drop, down, crawl – executing the twin functions of identifying the best cover possible and watching out to identify the source of our pain, the unmistakable angry flash of the barrel of the AK-47, the weapon of choice with the militants.

I hadn’t quite heard it (or if I did, it hadn’t registered) but I was confident Mukesh, right behind me had radioed the crisp three words that would indicate to our Company Operating Base that we were in business - “Contact, Standby, Out”. In seconds, the air was thick with the familiar smell of gunpowder, or so they claimed, much later when we were back in the company operating base. For me however, the peripheral senses weren’t quite working at their most efficient that morning. It usually doesn’t, I later realized, when one is a ‘live-combat virgin’. The first exposure to live combat, has a nasty practice of inevitably dulling up the senses, no matter how many hours of live firing one has actually carried out earlier at the practice ranges. This was the real thing. What every Special Forces man worth his salt hoped, prayed and lived for. A taste of the action. The metamorphosis from boy to man.

What I did remember however, is the rather dull, low whine that effectively degraded my sense of hearing. The low frequency, dull irritable whine, caused by the bullet that had quite evidently passed within inches of my right ear before it thudded into the thick, fallen deodhar tree trunk on the forest floor, behind me.

Irritating as the whine was, it didn’t stop me from focusing on returning fire. I was therefore, surprised when Satte gruffly caught hold of the collar of my camouflage dungarees and part dragged, part flipped me over and behind the tree trunk. It took me 30 seconds to figure out why. My body, in prone position was exposed to fire from the flank. To execute that maneuver, Satte had to expose himself from cover, briefly. Looking back, I wonder if it even struck him that he was putting himself in grave danger by executing that maneuver. I suspect he didn’t. This was purely reflex action. When you see your buddy in danger, you pull him in. Screw everything else.


- Bindair Dundat, 24 Oct 15.

Viv S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5303
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 00:46

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Viv S » 18 Jan 2016 03:41

No 24 PARA battalion exists. In 1998, there would have been only four SF battalions - 1, 9, 10 & 21.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18837
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 18 Jan 2016 03:52

Another one!!

Capt. Manish Singh (9 PARA (SF))

25th September 2012.
His facebook timeline says “GOT HIT”.

Any guess what hit, how hit, how badly hit and what happened after that hit? Here comes the story of our rising star.

Lieutenant Manish Singh was a troop commander with 9th Battalion the Parachute Regiment since 01 Apr, 2011.

As part of search and destroy operation of 30 RR at general area of Kupwara District in Jammu and Kashmir on 25 September 2012, exactly two years back, his squad was tasked to track escaping terrorists through terraced maize fields. During the search, a terrorist suddenly opened indiscriminate fire injuring Lieutenant Manish Singh and pinning down his squad. In a display of extreme courage and utter disregard for his own safety, despite his severe injuries due to a bullet hit in his spinal cord, Lt Manish crawled forward and kept the terrorist pinned down. During the encounter, the officer displayed leadership of the highest order in refusing to be evacuated and notwithstanding his grievous injuries and blood loss, held on to his position. Finally as the terrorist charged upon him, he shot him dead at near point blank range. His courageous action ensured the safety of his men and ruled out collateral damage to civilian houses.

For his act of showing courage of exemplary order, conspicuous gallantry and outstanding leadership in the highest traditions of the Indian Army, Lieutenant Manish Singh was conferred the award of “SHAURYA CHAKRA” during the republic day celebrations 2013.

Two years after he was shot at by an Afghan militant in Kashmir, Captain Manish Singh, who was left paraplegic by the injury, can walk again, thanks to 18-month stem cell treatment. Coupled with rehabilitation, Capt Singh, who could not even sit, is now mobile with the help of calipers. Buoyed by the improvement, he is now determined to return to the Special Forces he was assigned to.

After an AK47 bullet ripped through his stomach on September 25, 2012, Singh was injured in the D12 vertebra; he became paraplegic and lost control over bowel and bladder functions. “I was taken to a hospital in Sringar and then to the army hospital in Delhi where I was operated upon. Though my upper body functions were normal, I had no sensation or motor control below my navel,” said Singh, who is originally from Ludhiana. While rehabilitating at the army hospital at Kirkee in Pune, a colleague from the army suggested to Singh about stem cell therapy and rehabilitation.

“Capt Singh arrived at our centre in an ambulance, incapable of any movement,” said Dr Alok Sharma, director, Neuro Gen Brain and Spine Institute, Nerul. “There are a number of reasons why I was confident of great results from our treatment: First, he was provided with precise medical care for the first four months. Secondly, he is young, thirdly, him being an army man, he is determined and extremely focused,” said Dr Sharma, who is also the head of neurosurgery department at Sion Hospital.

The series of four stem therapy at the clinic was interspersed by bed mobility techniques that included rolling and shifting from bed to wheelchair and vice versa, gait training, ambulation lessons and physiotherapy, which comprised push-knee splints and balance training to improve trunk balance.

Now almost back on his feet, Capt Singh will return to Kirkee in September and after a week, he will travel to Mhow, an army cantonment in Madhya Pradesh where he will go to infantry school.

“I feel better, stronger and more determined to return to my life as it was. I want to get back into shooting, to represent India at the next Commonwealth Games,” said Singh.

“What makes this case special is that Singh never gave up hope. He doesn’t even encourage his parents to visit as it is emotional for him,” said Dr Sharma.

In earlier years, people tried to show sympathy, motivate him, used him, misused him, but also loved him, respected him, prayed for him. But his aim was fixed. On 25.09.2012 his battle didn’t end. It just started. He fought it with equal bravery. Now Capt. Manish Singh is going to start his new innings.

When he fought the battle in the Hafurda jungle, we were unaware of the situation. We didn’t know him. But today when we know him, his bravery and his future dream, we, his very own Deshwasi wish to express our love, respect and best wishes to the young and brave hero of our motherland.

May God bless Captain Manish Singh with all the success and happiness of life. May all his dreams come true. Desh wishes him all the luck for his future life and health, happiness and success for him.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18837
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 18 Jan 2016 03:53

Viv S wrote:No 24 PARA battalion exists. In 1998, there would have been only four SF battalions - 1, 9, 10 & 21.


Hes from 21

vishal
BRFite
Posts: 331
Joined: 27 Feb 2002 12:31
Location: BOM/SIN

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby vishal » 18 Jan 2016 09:19

The NSG does not operate at night

Surely this cannot be true!

Excerpt: Following the operation, a journalist asking a senior NSG officer (name withheld) why the operation took that long, and was tersely told, “the NSG does not operate at night”, besides other reasons; an NSG officer (who was part of the force sent to Pathankot) says the group is meant for hostage rescue situations. Significantly, a media report indicates that despite being sanctioned crores for equipment after 26/11, the NSG is deficient of 72 items, including night vision.

This is not the first time in recent days there has been 'news' about our operators lacking night fighting capabilities.

Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11202
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gagan » 18 Jan 2016 10:33

The one thing that fauj knows is this - only a crisis loosens GoI's purses.
GoI works this way.
One such article in the media, and the wheels of government start churning.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 18 Jan 2016 10:49

I think they have HHTI and some older 1/2-tube NVGs seen in hollywood movies
one of pix in previous page has a 1 tube of sorts.
http://i.imgur.com/bDeOT67.jpg

but not the 4-tube latest models seen in zero-dark30. i was unaware of their existence until I briefly skimmed that films last few minutes.

to me it looks like a cumbersome piece of kit for any mobile fight in open ground given its bulk and weight , but might be marginally useful in bin laden type op going into a fixed building or maze of tunnels.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 18 Jan 2016 11:01


rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 1159
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 18 Jan 2016 13:30

to me it looks like a cumbersome piece of kit for any mobile fight in open ground given its bulk and weight , but might be marginally useful in bin laden type op going into a fixed building or maze of tunnels.


Disagree. this new Piece of Kit addres Far greater degree of Peripheral Vision, Range and Depth Perception not to mention that is is Lightweight at 700odd grams. You can pretty much walk through a jungle with them with no gaps in your Vision. The older Gen of NVGs start to give a headache after prolonged continuous use. You need to rest and keep flipping them up from time to time. The Focus / Range / Peripheral vision are all quiet bad.

rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 1159
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 18 Jan 2016 17:42


Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18837
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 18 Jan 2016 18:13

rkhanna wrote:Disagree. this new Piece of Kit addres Far greater degree of Peripheral Vision, Range and Depth Perception not to mention that is is Lightweight at 700odd grams. You can pretty much walk through a jungle with them with no gaps in your Vision. The older Gen of NVGs start to give a headache after prolonged continuous use. You need to rest and keep flipping them up from time to time. The Focus / Range / Peripheral vision are all quiet bad.


FFS why cant MOD fund Tonbo to come up with a similar product? The lack of interest in MOD babus is a huge issue.

Viv S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5303
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 00:46

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Viv S » 18 Jan 2016 20:05

rkhanna wrote:Disagree. this new Piece of Kit addres Far greater degree of Peripheral Vision, Range and Depth Perception not to mention that is is Lightweight at 700odd grams. You can pretty much walk through a jungle with them with no gaps in your Vision. The older Gen of NVGs start to give a headache after prolonged continuous use. You need to rest and keep flipping them up from time to time. The Focus / Range / Peripheral vision are all quiet bad.

Any idea what it costs?

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 18 Jan 2016 20:14

only export downrated model below 1600 FOM will be there. but for munna's case by case exemptions are granted by DOD.
the asli maal has some 2300 FOM and works in pitch darkness.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18837
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 18 Jan 2016 20:21

^^ BEL now has a deal with the French to get the highest rated FOM detectors. FOM of 2100 is considered state of art.
Tonbo or some other SME can take it and make these panoramic NVGs if the IA/SF all lend a hand and MOD funds it. Infra and scientists at IRDE can lend a hand.
All it takes is the effort and the will, even if the first effort doesnt pan out.
Instead our babus sit and sign files and then think that's what is needed.

rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 1159
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 19 Jan 2016 09:26

Any idea what it costs?


We are talking about SOF units not line infantry. The percapita Budget Allocation is vastly different. TAVORs, M-4s, SCARs, COMMS, ISR, SPIKE - all cost a pretty penny. Why do optics become a step child?

In a recent Training Ex between USSF and Paras one of the American NOCs remarked that the Indian Soldiers didnt care for the American Kit (Guns/Body Armour) the ONLY thing they were interested in were Optics.

Another video also stated that while the two SF units were similar in capability they had different strategies. Indian Units always did mission planning for Early Dawn. Americans did mission planning for the dead of the night. Why? Lack of night fighting capability.

Viv S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5303
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 00:46

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Viv S » 19 Jan 2016 11:09

rkhanna wrote:
Any idea what it costs?


We are talking about SOF units not line infantry. The percapita Budget Allocation is vastly different. TAVORs, M-4s, SCARs, COMMS, ISR, SPIKE - all cost a pretty penny. Why do optics become a step child?


Lol. Sorry that was meant to be curious question rather than a sarcastic one. How much are we talking ballpark? $5000? $10,000 $50,000? Or higher? How does it compare to a lower end system (say whatever the US Army uses as standard)?

Also, since we're already discussing equipment - I know it's not a very 'special forces' thing but why is it that ballistic shields are entirely absent from the NSG's inventory?

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 19 Jan 2016 11:24

was wondering that - the french GIGN use their famous thick glass visors and heavy shields as seen in "Le assault". usually NSG will heavily outnumber the terrorists and sometimes like pathankot there is no time pressure from the top. might as well go in slow with the heaviest possible armour to avoid any injury or casualties.

rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 1159
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 19 Jan 2016 11:31

Lol. Sorry that was meant to be curious question rather than a sarcastic one. How much are we talking ballpark? $5000? $10,000 $50,000? Or higher? How does it compare to a lower end system (say whatever the US Army uses as standard)?


lol my mistake. I think The Unit Kit is becoming standard across the US Army. However where in the SOF units there will be a 1:1 issuances, Line Units get 2/3 per section/platoon. Mech Crews (driver, etc) ofcourse will have 1:1 again.

Also, since we're already discussing equipment - I know it's not a very 'special forces' thing but why is it that ballistic shields are entirely absent from the NSG's inventory?


An NSG Chap i spoke to once in 2006. Said they are CRITICAL. But the unit was (then) still lacking alot of far more critical stuff. the Shields come in handy when trying to Evac Hostages as well. Dont know how thinking has changed. NSG has recently spent time again at GSG-9 and we know Delta/USSF paid them a visit recently as well. Hope new ideas/tactics will give urgency for such kit.

member_20453
BRFite
Posts: 613
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby member_20453 » 19 Jan 2016 16:02

From what I hear each '4 Eyes' NVG units costs roughly $65K

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 19 Jan 2016 16:11

holy cow.

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8124
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby brar_w » 19 Jan 2016 16:21

I have seen $40,000 as well as their cost -

https://tnvc.com/wp-content/uploads/201 ... rticle.pdf

rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 1159
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 19 Jan 2016 16:25

Considering a 4th Gen 2Tube NVG on Amazon/Ebay costs US$9000. I would imagine the 4tubes are easily 5x in Price. The Technology is derived from NVGs of Helo Pilots.

chandrabhan
BRFite
Posts: 194
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 10:59

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby chandrabhan » 19 Jan 2016 17:19

Newest para unit would be numbered 29.. raised by my school mate. Nowadays he is raising another one with TA.

member_20453
BRFite
Posts: 613
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby member_20453 » 19 Jan 2016 17:20

Yup, quite an expensive proposition, as far as I hear, even in the US only ST6, DELTA, 24th STS deploy these. Hence, not for everyone. I read they cost 65K in Mark Bissonnette's book 'No Easy Day' detailing the OBL raid.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18837
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 19 Jan 2016 17:32

Again, so what. India is getting FOM 1700-2100 tubes for its forces via the XR-5 deal. What prevents Tonbo-BEL-IRDE from making a local variant?
Or must another RFP be created and some 5 years taken to import 10 units which a company must share amongst themselves?


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ashthor, Avinandan, BALAR025, Chinmay and 67 guests