Discussion on Indian Special Forces

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Akshay Kapoor
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 29 Jan 2018 23:44

Someone link that BR article pls. I’m on the move.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby nachiket » 30 Jan 2018 05:34

Here it is: https://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ARMY/tod ... rfare.html

`Mussoorie main honeymoon manane walon ko pata chale ki IMA mein loha ban raha hai`

This is one of the many punch lines that Drill Instructors of Indian Military Academy (IMA) frequently use to encourage and push Gentleman Cadets, which would become officers of the Indian Army. Now this may be very well true and they would be making LOHA there. But the real steel is casted somewhere else – in the Special Forces battalions of the Indian Army.

Special Forces units - one of the most ruthless, dangerous and determined killing machines on the planet earth. Men of steel whose physical and mental toughness is beyond imagination. They are just 4500 selected men out of 1.25 million strong Indian Army. Why so less? Because there is no recruitment rally for any of 10 Special Forces battalions, because each one of them (Jawans and officers alike) is a volunteer from other units of the Indian Army, because 90% of the candidates who volunteer for SF fail during probation and those who finally join the SF units are `Men apart, every man an emperor`.

My first encounter with SF was in Agra way back in 2001. During a dinner, one of my friends, who had just passed out of IMA, asked then Major Rajesh Shyoran, Sena Medal of SF, `Sir, just like you I want to earn the Maroon beret and `Balidan Badge`. How should I proceed?` With a smile on his face, Major Shyoran simply said `you are very welcome to try`. When my friend insisted, Major Shyoran said `See it is simple. Either you have it in you or you don’t. Agar tumhara Dil, Dimag aur Ghutna ek line main hai, you can make it`.

I was quite surprised and when I asked again, Major Shyoran explained `Dil – we need men with extra ordinary courage and spirit of comradie, who are willing to accept any challenge under any circumstances. Dimag – we need men with undying spirit, who refuse to give up - no matter what, men who are mentally so robust that they keep pushing their break point to the next limit every time. You are out of the race the moment you show your break point during the training or probation. Ghutna – Men with great physical strength and endurance, who can endure unimaginable hardship, who can keep running with full battle load for miles even when body refuse to – without food, water or rest, `.

That is where my interest in SF grew but nothing much was (and still is) available in public domain because everything related to them – their training, weaponry, tactics, missions, capabilities etc is shrouded in secrecy. Using my memory and few sources, I am writing this tribute to the 10 Para (SF) battalion who is going to celebrate their Golden Jubilee on 1st June 2017.

Making of a Scorpion

As per the process, any officer who is eager to earn the Marron Beret must write to the Commanding Officer of the SF unit, he wishes to join. After his request is accepted, candidate officer goes through 6 months of Probation. During this time, he undergoes one of the toughest training procedures in the world.

10 Para (SF) are also known as Desert Scorpions. Officers and jawans opting for 10 Para (SF) are trained specially for Desert warfare. At the start of the probation, they are given a tent, a bucket, a knife, a rope and a laltain. They have to setup their tent in the desert. Rigorous physical training goes day and night with no specific routine as there is no specific training manual. They get trained, sometimes, without food for 4 days, 1 litre water for 3 days and without sleep for 7 days. Sleep deprivation sometimes starts the moment probation starts. He will always have a 10KG sandbag on his back – this sandbag is affectionately called permanent buddy. Objective is to make the candidate realize that he is far more capable than he ever imagined. The moment he shows any weakness, he is out.

Every month he has to complete 10KM, 20KM, 30KM and 40 KM speed walk with full battle gears that means additional 25 KG. These speed walks should be completed within stipulated time.

Scorpions are better navigator than modern GPS systems. In desert, there are no roads, no landmarks, not much human colonies. There are just sand dunes that keep shifting every night. In such vast and clueless place, they are halo/air dropped in the middle of nowhere, with just a compass in their hand. And using that compass and stars, they reach their destination without fail, every time. They are taught to survive with literally nothing to eat or drink. They collect dew in the wee hours to survive. Just 300 ml of water is good for them to survive for 2 days. Remember it is 50+ degrees in Thar and a normal human needs more than 10 litres a day to survive. They are taught to eat anything that moves in the desert area. They specially like eating scorpions - `Once you kill and roast it, remove its venom, it is really tasty`. They know which grass, which leaf, which shrub to eat to stay alive to complete the mission. Because the battle is not won by dying for your country but to kill the enemy.

During the 6-month probation period, no candidate gets rejected because 90% of candidates give up by themselves and go back to their respective units. Before declaring any candidate fit for the unit, the Commanding Officer would consult the Probation Officer of the candidate, other officers, Subedar Major, senior JCOs and even Jawans. This might sound odd but it is very important as the whole unit is a one big close knit family, where every soldier trusts his Brother-in-arms for his life. It is not easy to earn that Maroon Beret, apart from physical and mental toughness, one has to have the camaraderie to prove his worth.

Here comes the fun part. When an officer is selected, the CO and other officers will bring the Maroon Beret placed in the oldest trophy won by 10 Para. Trophy will also be filled with drinks – it could be whisky, rum, beer, juice or a mix of all. Candidate will have to drink that all, empty the trophy and wear his Maroon Beret himself. No one will put the maroon beret on his head because, as they say in the SF units, he has earned it. Then during the dining-in ceremony, after finishing his first drink, candidate officer will have to break a piece of his glass, chew it till it becomes (almost) sand and gulp that down with some more whisky. Showing true camaraderie, all other officers do the same.

Candidate would not earn the famous Balidan badge, just because he has earned the Maroon Beret. He will have to undergo Para training in Agra to earn the Para Wing badge and then wait for his first successful operation to earn the Balidan badge – it symbolizes sacrifices one has made on the battlefield.

After the probation, they undergo specialized training at Special Forces Training Centre, where they get trained for Weapons, Communications, Navigation, Medical and Demolition. These five trainings are crucial because during any mission, it would be a team of minimum five commandos. Team is designed in such a way that each member has completed these skills as his primary and secondary, thereby no dependency on any one person for any task.

10 Para (SF) are specially trained for operations in desert – from the lower border of Punjab till Gujarat. But make no mistake, they are always ready take on any task anywhere. They make their frequent trips to the J&K. 10 SF were among the first who went up the kargil hills and brought back information about the scale of intrusion.

Like LTTE in Sri Lanka, terrorists in J&K fear SF units because they know that SF guys will wait for them forever sitting still, for days, in the rain, dew or ice, with food or without and will not go home without capturing the terrorist dead or alive.

During a covert operation, disguised as brainwashed Kashmiris/jihadi Pakistani, Maj Sangram Singh (Shaurya Chakra) and Capt Vikas of 10 Para (SF) stayed with LeT terrorists in their camp in a jungle for 4 days. During this covert operation, they gathered tremendous amount of information and killed all 4 terrorists. Indian Army broke down LeT network using that information. Terrorists were so terrorised that they were always on the run thereafter.

Their glorious past: -

It was raised in 1967 by splitting 9 Para (SF). Within 4 years of it raising, it took part in 1971 war and conducted one of the most successful commando operation in the world – The Chachro Raid. This operation is a case study in the US special forces and UK special forces – SAS. Under the leadership of the legendry Lt. Col. Swai Bhawani Singh (Maharaja of Jaipur), 10 Para (SF) prepared for this raid for 6 months. And just like a trained medical doctor cut open patient’s body layer by layer, 10 Para (SF) captured town after town and handed them over to regular units of the Army – a surgical strike in literal sense. So thorough and accurate was the planning, the preparation and the execution that 10 Para (SF) captured Chachro, Virawah, Nagarparkar, Islamkot, Lunio without a single causality. Enemy lost 36 men and 22 were taken as PoW. For this successful operation, 10 Para (SF) received a well-deserved Battle Honour – Chachro 1971 and received 10 gallantry awards while the CO, Lt. Col. Bhawani Singh received Mahavir Chakra.

Later in 1987, 10 Para (SF) was a part of the Indian Peace Keeping Forces in Sri Lanka. The commanding officer was Col Dalvir Singh (Veer Chakra), who was known as `Saint Soldier`, who was as humble as a Saint and as ferocious soldier as a Para Commando should be. He would eat all three meals of the day with his soldiers – every single day, not in any Officer’s mess but with the soldiers he commanded, in their kitchen.

LTTE was so terrorised by 10 Para (SF) that ADC to LTTE chief Prabhakaran confessed to my source that `there is only one unit that we fear the most – Saint Soldier’s unit`. These were the words he used to describe the Commanding Officer and his paltan. One can imagine the respect 10 Para (SF) had earned.

While working on my article on the President Body Guards, I visited President House number of times. During a function, I noticed the Balidan badge worn by one officer of the President’s staff. That officer was Major Varun Chabra of 10 Para (SF), who was ADC to the President. Out of my old curiosity, I met the officer and spoke about his unit. I mentioned Lt. Col. Chabra who got martyred in Sri Lanka. We kept talking for 10-15 minutes and then I took my leave. When I turned around, he stopped me and said `Sir, Col Chabra was my father. I was determined to follow his footsteps and join his Paltan`. We shook hands again and he left me speechless.

Like other SF battalions, 10 Para is also master of every field. They have produced excellent sportsmen. In a dinner, an officer from Garhwal regiment taunted Col Bhupesh Hada (Shaurya Chkra) of 10 Para (SF) `you guys would be king of desert but mountainous region is a different ball game`. Col Hada took it in the true para spirit and gave a fitting reply by conquering Mount Everest within 6 months. He had not done mountaineering before that. It took him just 6 months to move from the Thar desert to 8848m high peak. It speaks volumes of the spirit and physical/mental toughness of Col Hada.

Maj Surendra Poonia, VSM of 10 Para (SF) is another such example. He is amongst the youngest recipients of the Vishist Seva Medal. He also received 4 COAS commendation cards for distinguished service in the field & in sports. An exceptionally good sportsman, he participated in World Medical Games between 2010 and 2015 and won 27 medals (11 gold, 12 silver and 4 bronze). He did it all by himself with no support from anywhere.

In 2002, 10 Para (SF) was given 3 days’ notice to prepare for World Special Forces competition. Under the command of Capt Virendra Salaria (Shaurya Chakra) and Capt TR Krishna Das (Sena Medal), a small team from 10 Para (SF) participated and won the competition for India after beating special forces from the USA, the UK, France, Russia etc. In 2004, they again participated and bagged the Silver Medal.

This list can go on and on but most of them will not talk about their missions. Every SF soldier carries so many stories to narrate and leaves a legacy behind. At the end, I remember what Maj Surendra Poonia of 10 Para (SF) said in a seminar in New Delhi in 2012. A student asked him `Don’t you guys fear? All these risky operations are so dangerous. You can get killed. What moves you to do the unthinkable? `

Major Poonia’s reply left everyone speechless `Everyone fears but the love for our country and countrymen; IZZAT, honour, pride of the PALTAN and brotherly support of our fellow brother-in-arms leave that fear far behind. Our training has made so confident that when we face any challenge, we don’t think about the hurdles, our mind starts thinking about how to accomplish the mission. There is simply no room for fear. `

I regret that I could not join Indian Army. While researching for this article, I felt thrilled and desperately wanted to go back in time to give it another shot. I suggest every youth reading this tribute to try joining the Special Forces and see if you have it in you, if you have that steel inside you, if your dil,dimag and ghutna is in a line ☺ See if you are a man apart, a man worthy of being an emperor.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 30 Jan 2018 17:21

an article on 10 th battalion, the parachute regiment

http://www.theweek.in/theweek/cover/ind ... andos.html

good read
excerpts
But, outcomes are not always positive. In February 2016, Captain Pawan Kumar and Captain Tushar Mahajan died fighting terrorists holed up in the Entrepreneur Development Institute near Pampore in Kashmir’s Pulwama district.

The son of a headmaster in a village school in Haryana’s Jind district, Pawan had always dreamt of joining the Army. When he completed class 12, he joined the sought-after maths (honours) course at Ramjas College in Delhi. But, he quit and joined the Army after he received a letter from the Services Selection Board.

After spending a year in the Dogra regiment, he volunteered to join the special forces. After probation, he joined counterinsurgency operations in Kashmir. He was advised to go on medical leave after he was injured in one of the operations. “He requested the doctor not to endorse the leave, and returned to join the team,” recalls Vishal Ahlawat, Pawan’s friend and fellow para commando.

Pawan’s father, Rajbir Singh, 54, spoke to THE WEEK on Army Day (January 15), which is also Pawan’s birthday. “When your own child sacrifices his life for the country, what greater happiness can you get,” he said. “All of us should be ready to make that sacrifice. People die in accidents, too; so why should anyone fear death? God has created human beings to do glorious deeds. That is my message to the youth today.”

Said Dev Raj Gupta, Captain Tushar Mahajan’s father and a renowned physicist: “I am a proud father. It is true he has left us, but someone has to do this job, too. Yes, we miss him.”

Tushar’s mother, Asha Rani, 55, recalled that he used to move around her in circles, teasing her, before kissing her goodbye and leaving the house. “The last time he came to meet us and left home, he did not do that,” she said. “I miss having him around me. He treated me more as a friend than as his mother.” Today, the void left by Tushar is filled by his brother commandos, who seek Asha Rani’s blessings whenever they get a chance. Both Tushar and Pawan were awarded the Shaurya Chakra posthumously.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 30 Jan 2018 17:41

quite a few tales on grit and determination, of soldiers; who wear a winged dagger badge
http://www.theweek.in/theweek/cover/par ... -kind.html

warriors of a special kind
excerpts
In 2014, Captain Vishwas was doing his routine para jumps at Agra when he suffered a parachute emergency. He fell from a height of 200 feet and suffered burst fractures in his spine among other injuries. “When I regained consciousness, the first thing I realised was that I couldn't move. Only my hands were moving. I told myself that I will be able to do something in my life since my hands can move,'' said Vishwas. The officer was evacuated to Delhi and metal implants were used to prop up his spine again. He underwent a long process of recovery but the doctors were still not ready to upgrade his medical category. That would have meant that he could never be a paratrooper again. For a paratrooper it is mandatory to undergo refresher jumps periodically. Vishwas was adamant. From leaving his wheelchair to take his first steps and swimming 3.5 km non stop within a year, the paratrooper not only got his medical clearance but returned to his battalion. He chose to do his para jump on the same date he had got injured, three years later. “God is kind, he gave me a chance to come back,'' says the braveheart.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 30 Jan 2018 17:49

an interview with Lt Gen Katoch

http://www.theweek.in/theweek/cover/pra ... rview.html

excerpts
How are countries like China and Pakistan using their special forces?
China and Pakistan are exploiting our fault lines under the cover of ambiguity and denial. We must do likewise. We must use our special forces for shaping the environment in India’s favour. The special forces do not create resistance movements, but advice, train and assist movements that already exist.
They also provide the political authority with a range of low-cost strategic options, unlike the high-cost war option provided by conventional forces. There is an urgent need for India to develop publicised overt capabilities and deniable covert capabilities to deter the irregular war thrust upon us. We must have the will to selectively demonstrate such capability.

and

Our special forces have been conducting cross-border strikes. The surgical strikes of 2016 were made public. Your comments.

SF operations should always be shrouded in mystery. We could learn from the SAS (Special Air Service of the UK) and stop thumping our chest about surgical strikes. Most idiotically, we also paraded some of the participants [in the surgical strikes] on national television, and publicised in print and electronic media how the strikes were conducted. It not only jeopardises future operations, but also depicts the gross ignorance of our politicians as regards to SF operations. If opposition [parties] were asking for proof, they should have been told to go jump into the nearest well.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 30 Jan 2018 17:54

and on lizards and lassi

http://www.theweek.in/theweek/cover/ind ... style.html
excerpts on food
Apart from its exploits on the field, the unit also takes pride in its food, which includes specialities like commando toast, rocket and para lassi. The commando toast is bread, topped with a spicy paste of ginger, garlic and red chillies. Then there is the rocket—wheat bread stuffed with gur (jaggery)—called so because it looks like a rocket. The para lassi, which the commandos said is high in nutrition, gets its name from the size of the serving. It is served in a huge tumbler. As we finished our well-prepared meal, I asked them, “Is there a celebration or have you cooked this especially for us?” A jawan turned around and said, “Yeh 10 Para ke langar ka khana hai. Hamara khana officers’ mess se bhi acha hota hai [This is the food from our community kitchen, which is better than what you get even in the officers’ mess].”

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 30 Jan 2018 18:23

wig wrote:an interview with Lt Gen Katoch

http://www.theweek.in/theweek/cover/pra ... rview.html

excerpts
How are countries like China and Pakistan using their special forces?
China and Pakistan are exploiting our fault lines under the cover of ambiguity and denial. We must do likewise. We must use our special forces for shaping the environment in India’s favour. The special forces do not create resistance movements, but advice, train and assist movements that already exist.
They also provide the political authority with a range of low-cost strategic options, unlike the high-cost war option provided by conventional forces. There is an urgent need for India to develop publicised overt capabilities and deniable covert capabilities to deter the irregular war thrust upon us. We must have the will to selectively demonstrate such capability.

and

Our special forces have been conducting cross-border strikes. The surgical strikes of 2016 were made public. Your comments.

SF operations should always be shrouded in mystery. We could learn from the SAS (Special Air Service of the UK) and stop thumping our chest about surgical strikes. [b]Most idiotically, we also paraded some of the participants [in the surgical strikes] on national television, and publicised in print and electronic media how the strikes were conducted. It not only jeopardises future operations, but also depicts the gross ignorance of our politicians as regards to SF operations[/b]. If opposition [parties] were asking for proof, they should have been told to go jump into the nearest well.


Agree 100 pct that we have given too many details away (tactics were given away, field craft was given away, ingress and egress plans were given away). We have compromised individuals and future operations. I was shocked when I saw the documentary and also the face of xyz.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 30 Jan 2018 18:26

nachiket wrote:Here it is: https://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ARMY/tod ... rfare.html


While working on my article on the President Body Guards, I visited President House number of times. During a function, I noticed the Balidan badge worn by one officer of the President’s staff. That officer was Major Varun Chabra of 10 Para (SF), who was ADC to the President. Out of my old curiosity, I met the officer and spoke about his unit. I mentioned Lt. Col. Chabra who got martyred in Sri Lanka. We kept talking for 10-15 minutes and then I took my leave. When I turned around, he stopped me and said `Sir, Col Chabra was my father. I was determined to follow his footsteps and join his Paltan`. We shook hands again and he left me speechless.



I regret that I could not join Indian Army. While researching for this article, I felt thrilled and desperately wanted to go back in time to give it another shot. I suggest every youth reading this tribute to try joining the Special Forces and see if you have it in you, if you have that steel inside you, if your dil,dimag and ghutna is in a line ☺ See if you are a man apart, a man worthy of being an emperor.


Thanks for linking.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby jaysimha » 01 Feb 2018 12:13

https://nsg.gov.in/sites/default/files/RFI%20PSYC%20PLAN.pdf

Request for information to work as consultants ( physchology ) in NSG

pls contact
Group Commander(Est)
HQ, National Security Guard,
Mehram nagar,
Near Domestic Airport, Palam,
New Delhi - 110 037

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 01 Feb 2018 15:02

Akshay Kapoor wrote:
wig wrote:an interview with Lt Gen Katoch

http://www.theweek.in/theweek/cover/pra ... rview.html

excerpts

and



Agree 100 pct that we have given too many details away (tactics were given away, field craft was given away, ingress and egress plans were given away). We have compromised individuals and future operations. I was shocked when I saw the documentary and also the face of xyz.



Looking at the two structures he has drawn out he looks to be going the Seperate JSOC and SOCOM route. Whats most interesting is that he suggests two separate Aviation Units for both.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 01 Feb 2018 16:08

if he is complaining about the history channel program and the shatrujeet writeups i do not see any operational details being given out barring the most generic. how do you cross the border - surely at night and in forested area no? you avoid roads and villages and hide in forests until you strike. you use encrypted radios and hand signals. you carry heavy backpacks and tavors and NVG. not deep dark secrets these. all who came on TV masked their faces.

history channel will soon air a program about the strikes on myanmar camps, trailer was shown yesterday. showed a squad of masked para SF armed with ak+ubgl, ags17 type mini version of grenade launcher, carl gustaf going through a forest and crossing a stream.

keeps the morale up in the general public and makes them proud of forces. movies like zero dark thirty, op delta force(chuck norris), men of honor, navy seals(charlie sheen), american sniper , top gun are all +ve psyops for the forces .. a few "realist" movies like platoon and apocalypse now come here and there.

if they want to keep it secret, they can, IA just has to refuse but also ensure all the gallantry awards are also not made public in republic day presidents list .


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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Kashi » 01 Feb 2018 17:17

There have been a fair few raids post surgical strikes and none of them were made public. It's clear that 29/9 surgical strikes were publicised largely as a one-off thing because of the exceptional circumstances under which they happened.
Last edited by Kashi on 02 Feb 2018 05:32, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby nam » 01 Feb 2018 17:54

When service awards are handed out by the President, the officer bringing in the awards is seen wearing the SG badge!

The SG is probably our most elite unit.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 01 Feb 2018 18:31

I imagine they work with raw and ib to wipe high value targets
Cia has a similar pool of people from seals and delta on deputation

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 02 Feb 2018 01:55

I had once gone as an audience to Vikram Chandra's (NDTV) talk show and Natwar Singh was the guest. This was in early 2000s i think. I don't recall the complete conversation but he asked a question to the audience as to what we should do and somebody said "we should do hot pursuit across LoC!"

"Hot Pursuit" - how many remember that term thrown out but we never really heard it being done? Ever since at least TV media came in we heard about it - and only got frustrated. We were only beaten, never fought back.

All this has a tremendous negative effect on the psychology of the nation. The Post-26/11 inaction was the lowest point ever. Post Myanmar and SS we as a nation have at least gotten a much need relief on this aspect. The people of this country associate Indian Army's victories as their own victories.

See how Sachin Tendulkar explains the mood of the cricket team 10 days after 26/11 during test match with England;

More Aditya G Retweeted Sachin Tendulkar
Do see this conversation between Sachin Tendulkar and #MARCOS cdo Praveen Teotia. At one point Sachin recounts the effect the terrorist attack had on the psyche of the cricket team ...

https://youtu.be/Z_Wy02-Dj_Q

#MumbaiAttack #SpecialForces


Now in military terms SS were done before as well, esp in 1995's Op Golden Bird (classic Hot Pursuit op btw). We had also avenged Kaluchak. But all these ops were kept under obsessive secrecy. It robbed the people of a confidence boost.

"We" needed the surgical strikes and we want more of this good stuff! We want books, comics, TV series, movies the works.

Singha wrote:if he is complaining about the history channel program and the shatrujeet writeups i do not see any operational details being given out barring the most generic. how do you cross the border - surely at night and in forested area no? you avoid roads and villages and hide in forests until you strike. you use encrypted radios and hand signals. you carry heavy backpacks and tavors and NVG. not deep dark secrets these. all who came on TV masked their faces.

history channel will soon air a program about the strikes on myanmar camps, trailer was shown yesterday. showed a squad of masked para SF armed with ak+ubgl, ags17 type mini version of grenade launcher, carl gustaf going through a forest and crossing a stream.

keeps the morale up in the general public and makes them proud of forces. movies like zero dark thirty, op delta force(chuck norris), men of honor, navy seals(charlie sheen), american sniper , top gun are all +ve psyops for the forces .. a few "realist" movies like platoon and apocalypse now come here and there.

if they want to keep it secret, they can, IA just has to refuse but also ensure all the gallantry awards are also not made public in republic day presidents list .


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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 02 Feb 2018 08:04

DD is singularly incapable of the high production values needed to making soothing +ve psyops like the above
pvt channels are loathe to be seen being "communal" and supporting the Govt(forces) while making protesting noises if someone accuses them of not doing enough other than manufacturing fakenews.

so only natgeo/discovery/history channels are left. they have prior experience abroad in producing similar films on the military units of the US atleast. they know how to showcase and stage these shoots.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 02 Feb 2018 08:08

I hope we have a unit like the old KGB Vympel (not the new defensive CT focussed FSB Vympel) tasked for offensive CT ops in foreign lands.

maybe our successes in nabbing people from dubai (arrested at nepal border) and far east has something to do with such covert units.

they need to keep those stuff under wraps and thats how it is.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 02 Feb 2018 08:14

even a tier2 power like france has its own unified SOCOM which folds in GIGN also their top tier CT unit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_O ... nd_(France)

the others GIPN, RAID and BRI are under police home ministry

https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/meet- ... 1678793691

germany and india follow the same model of keeping the tier1 NSG SAG under home ministry only, which is fine imo so long as they can train with the army and navy sf also. US FBI HRT is under their home ministry.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby kaveesh » 03 Feb 2018 23:22

Akshay Kapoor wrote:Do you know his father made the supreme sacrifice in OP Pawan. There is a BR article on 10 Para which mentions this. Goes like this ‘when author visited Rashtrapati Bahwan he spoke to Maj Varun Chabra and seeing Vakis an badge mentioned Col Chabra. Major Varun didn’t say anything. 15 mins later when author was leaving Major Varun went up to him and told him that Col Chabra was my father and that’s why I joined his paltan’ And today he has become a Col and has done his father’s memory proud.

This is the magic of the Indian army.


Varun was a junior at Army School Ambala Cantt between 1992 and 1994. Even though I was a few years ahead of him, I knew him because he was my sister's classmate and friend. I remember him as a bright and energetic kid- he was still 12 or 13 years old back then. It was a pleasant surprise to see him in uniform as CO of one of the toughest fighting units in the country.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ashthor » 05 Mar 2018 21:28

Biju Patnaik and his Tibetan Phantoms : An interesting unknown story about Biju Babu

http://www.bhubaneswarbuzz.com/stories-by-people/biju-patnaik-tibetan-phantoms-interesting-unknown-story-biju-babu-anil-dhir

Up till the late 1990s, they were regularly seen at the market of Choudwar. The locals took them to be Gurkhas of the Odisha Special Armed Police, often deployed at the outer periphery of the Charbatia air base. Old-timers remember their presence from the late ‘sixties. Few know that these groups of tough looking young men were part of the Indian Army’s most secret guerrilla force, called the Special Frontier Force (SFF) or simply Establishment 22, often referred to in military parlance as “two-twos.” Very little is known about their presence and activities; they functioned under the India Secret Service establishment Research and Analysis Wing (RAW). Even today, the Indian government denies the existence of this force.

It was Biju Patnaik who was instrumental in the formation of Establishment 22. In fact, it was he who had mooted the idea of a Tibetan Guerilla Force, comprising the Khampa rebels, after the 1962 Chinese debacle. As Nehru’s close confidant and defence adviser, Biju along with the Intelligence Bureau Chief B.N.Mullick, convinced Nehru that a force be formed comprising of members drawn from among the Tibetan youth who had fled to India along with the Dalai Lama. In their book “The CIA’s Secret War in Tibet”, Kenneth Conboy and James Morrison have detailed Biju Patnaik’s role in the formation of the force. It was under Biju’s stewardship that Indian intelligence had established close relations with the Central Intelligence Agency for support of the Tibetan resistance movement. In fact, India had allowed the CIA to set up camps and train the Tibetan Guerillas. Biju Patnaik had also visited the USA twice as Nehru’s representative.

More in the link...

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 24 Mar 2018 17:21

very sad news ; an Indian Army paratrooper plunges to death as parachute fails to open

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation ... 62432.html
An Indian Army paratrooper, Lance Sunil Naik, died in an accident while taking part in a training mission on Friday at Agra.
His parachute did not open after he jumped out of a special operations plane on a training mission from an altitude of 6,000 feet.
He reportedly died on the spot

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby VKumar » 24 Mar 2018 22:51

Can't they have a backup chute?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby pushkar.bhat » 24 Mar 2018 22:58

All Paratroopers have backup chutes but accidents do unfortunately happen.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby JTull » 25 Mar 2018 02:01

Sad news. Perhaps 6000ft is too low to try backup chute. Shouldn't they be using line drops at such low alt?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 25 Mar 2018 18:30

the parachutist was from 1st Battalion, The Parachute Regiment ( Special Forces) and had 60 jumps to his credit. something must have gone very wrong for him to lose his life in the accident
excerpts
A joint court of inquiry has been ordered by the air force and the army into the death of a para-commando who was killed while jumping from an aircraft during a training exercise in Agra on March 23.

Lance naik Sunil Kumar, posted at 1 Para (special forces) base in Himachal Pradesh’s Nahan, suffered head injuries after his parachute allegedly failed to open.

“The deceased commando was an expert at free-fall para jumps and had more than 60 such jumps to his credit,” army spokesperson wing commander Arvind Sinha said, adding the probe would ascertain the cause of death.

1 Para specialises in mountain warfare and Kumar was at the Malpura dropping zone on the outskirts of Agra for a three-week refresher course.

The 27-year-old was rushed to the military hospital where he was declared brought dead, Sinha said.

The post mortem examination said a head injury caused by a fall from a height proved fatal for the soldier


https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... XWDPO.html

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 31 Mar 2018 16:51

Was reading up on Para SF on Quora- "What is so special about the Para SF of the Indian Army?". Came up on this posting which gave me goose bumps.

You wanna know special?

[This text is excerpted from a copyrighted source, now under publishing.]

Afghanistan, 2004, Regestaan Desert. 4th Company for the Afghan Northern Alliance. The specific roles and posts of my unit are albeit not classified, I have chosen to keep them out of this.

The flesh trade was just picking up on the Durand Line. Slavers and traffickers, sometimes also dressed up as NGOs and social workers; were abducting and selling children from 5–15 years old, luring young girls across the borders into Uzbekistan, Pakistan, the NWFP… such that to save their daughters families would dress them as boys, draw little mustaches and beards on them, or stick some real hair on their faces with gum, etc.

Also, the Taliban, having fallen from CIA’s grace, paid for weapons in this way sometimes, giving these children and women to foreign military officers for ammunition, guns, transport and information.

There was a market, a bazaar where in a district for whoring and gambling and fighting pits and stuff, where parents of abducted children, or police would first look. They then would go to the Taliban, who, in exchange demanded money, or services.

That’s why you didn’t act wildly and shoot or maim a normal looking family guy gone suddenly insane and carrying guns or bombs where he should be looking for his baby. It was an unwritten rule to try and use minimal force with these people acting only to save their child.

I did visit the fights and the flea markets, but never went to the ‘harems’, where you could see little, innocent babies with soorma and lipstick ready to service the gigantic filthy mongoloids who came there.

The Alliance had won every battle, and was only being hurt by the proxies, the families of poor householders, forced to render service to Talibaners, for the safe return of their children. You could see them fighting like zombies, eyes blank, no emotional investment in the fight, guns hung loosely from soft limbs not meant for war but trembling to hold their babes once more.

The passionless Alla-hoo-Akbars they shouted were more like indictments against the very God who gave them the doomed children. My heart went out to them, even as I had to shoot them one by one. I slew 4 men, only working hard to get their daughters/sisters back.

Do you know what this is like? I often ask couch-warmongers, and idiots who are fascinated with the workings of a special force. A special force is something sent to resolve situations that cannot be disclosed to the world. We are trained in speed. In finality. In precision. Only to obliterate the offending part of humanity, and every evidence of it ever having been. So the rest of mankind gets to live in it’s fool’s paradise of “democracy, socialism, what-the-fµck-ever”. I digress.

We found that three of our own were not only partaking of the trivially worded, proverbial “बहती गंगा..” ( their words, not mine ), but also compromised in terms of info, and that it had reached Command. A tall, dark chap from Bengal or Assam, and two from Rajasthan. Their names were one step shy from being released to public, as at the same time CNN was doing a story on this evil trade.

Our Command (which was in the hands of a true patriot and Son of India) felt that it was time to affect change, in the ranks, in morale, in standards of the Indian Army. We had a choice of shipping them home to court martial them, but our group commander (OSIC) was a man of real steel .

It was time to set precedent.

I shot two of them myself, one was taken by his own acquaintance. We could not allow the Army’s name to be sullied by the procedures that would rake up this filth. And with CNN’s expose already in play, we would really suffer more than we deserved, all because of three sons of bitches. After their bodies were ‘discovered’, carried back and shipped home as ‘casualties’, there was a new found respect, an awe, of the Indian Para contingent, among the Brits, the US special operators, the Turks, mercs, everyone.

I have shared this, not to indulge your appetites for fantabulous military glory, or steal valor from my comrades in the alliance actions. We all know, how it all went to shit later, anyway. Ask most police, paramilitary, peacekeeper army… to take a stand like that, and they get shaky feet.

Hundreds of thousands line up for selection into India’s Armed Forces every year. In the other countries, you have to chase young men to recruit and those who get away are called ‘dodgers’. But in India, you have got to cut it, mate. Of the few hundreds who can cut it, the SF commando are selected in not tens, but ones. That is what makes them “Men Apart, Every Man An Emperor”.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 31 Mar 2018 17:07

^^^ I remember that Indian SF (most likely SG) was present in Astan during the early days of the Invasion. They were part of the Advisory contingent of Tiger Mehmood and helped with the Link up of the First ODA's in country.

Didnt realise they were still there in 2004! Interesting.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 31 Mar 2018 17:50

rkhanna wrote:^^^ I remember that Indian SF (most likely SG) was present in Astan during the early days of the Invasion. They were part of the Advisory contingent of Tiger Mehmood and helped with the Link up of the First ODA's in country.

Didnt realise they were still there in 2004! Interesting.



RKhannaji, who is Tiger Mehmood?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 31 Mar 2018 22:00

Sorry. Misspoke his name was Shah masoud Nick named the tiger. He was the leader of the Northern Alliance and assassinated the day before 9/11 by an AQ operative disguised as a reporter

India had a permanent cadre as advisors with the NA . Rolled back their presence once handed over to the Americans . Or so I thought .

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Ashutosh Malik » 01 Apr 2018 03:04

rkhanna wrote:Sorry. Misspoke his name was Shah masoud Nick named the tiger. He was the leader of the Northern Alliance and assassinated the day before 9/11 by an AQ operative disguised as a reporter

India had a permanent cadre as advisors with the NA . Rolled back their presence once handed over to the Americans . Or so I thought .


Actually his nickname was, the "Lion of Panjshir"

There is a road named after him in Chanakyapuri, New Delhi - the diplomatic area - off the Shanti Path, not too far from the Afghan Embassy.

Best regards.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 01 Apr 2018 11:48

Yes just googled it you are correct. Apologies memory with names has gotten fuzzy. But Indian SF were there with the NA prior to the invasion and played a key role in helping CIA and ODA teams link with with the broader NA and also give early Intel on the Taliban that helped prep the ground for the invasion

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Thakur_B » 13 Apr 2018 18:41

Image

Shatrujeet tweeted this videograb from Gaganshakti video. Looks like joint SF operations may be tried out.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby atreya » 13 Apr 2018 19:56

The first one is a Garud logo? Isn't it supposed to be crossed swords with eagle?


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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Austin » 14 May 2018 21:22

Para Commandos - The Brahmastra Of India


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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rakesh » 15 Jun 2018 06:05

https://twitter.com/indiandefence11/sta ... 4590400513 ---> A Para SF Operative from a RCL Team firing an Indian-produced Carl Gustav M3 Recoil-Less Rifle while another operative who is armed with Tavor TAR-21 Assault Rifle with MARS Red Dot Sight assists him.

Image

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rakesh » 15 Jun 2018 06:05

https://twitter.com/indiandefence11/sta ... 7973258240 ---> An Israeli Air Force UH-60 'Yanshuf' approaches a landing zone being covered by Indian Air Force Garud Commandos and Israeli Air Force Unit 669 Commandos as they prepare to evacuate an injured personnel during a Combat Search and Rescue Mission.

Image

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby nachiket » 15 Jun 2018 23:03

^^This must be during the Blue Flag exercise in Israel. Interestingly, the IAF sent the Garuds in a C-130J for the exercise, but no fighter jets.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 15 Jun 2018 23:10

nachiket wrote:^^This must be during the Blue Flag exercise in Israel. Interestingly, the IAF sent the Garuds in a C-130J for the exercise, but no fighter jets.


Crawl. Walk. Run. IAF observers monitored the exercise. Next time combat jets would participate

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Picklu » 16 Jun 2018 20:15

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/indiandefence11/status/1007189874590400513 ---> A Para SF Operative from a RCL Team firing an Indian-produced Carl Gustav M3 Recoil-Less Rifle while another operative who is armed with Tavor TAR-21 Assault Rifle with MARS Red Dot Sight assists him.

Image


With the rope anchor and harness, looks like a straight lift from the Discovery Channel's program on surgical strike


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