Discussion on Indian Special Forces

[Aditya G]

When and where?



From Para Regt site

[Aditya G]

A rare photo - "Ops in Delf Islands". Note the SLR-auto.

http://www.indianparachuteregiment.kar. ... es/g20.jpg

[Surya]

must be one of the unsuccessful missions

The paras finally went in by sea

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... Delft.html

[K Mehta]

well bharat-rakshak is next to army navy and air-force. since when did BR become a part of armed forces?? must be a para-military force

[Rahul M]

well bharat-rakshak is next to army navy and air-force. since when did BR become a part of armed forces?? must be a para-military force

kmehta, plz explain.

[K Mehta]

In the Indian para regiment website check the bottom right corner website link

[Ajay K]

Special forces have enough in hand these days with ULFA cease fire broken, LTTE moving towards twilight zone, Naga's and J&K all errupting as hot beds simultaneously.

[Ajay K]

Folks, need some enlightening about theSpecial Group within the Para Commandos. Why are they called so? What are the operations they carry out? Any information regarding them is welcome.

[pmund]

Yes. Didnt even know such a unit existed. Is it a 'special' special forces unit. Had heard about a unit solely dedicated to hunting down wanted terrorists. They live off the ground or their backpacks, remain incommunicado, and chase down terrorists as far as they go. Didnt know whether it was fiction or fact. Is this the same group?? Anyone who has any info please share it

[Jagan]

Yes. Didnt even know such a unit existed. Is it a 'special' special forces unit. Had heard about a unit solely dedicated to hunting down wanted terrorists. They live off the ground or their backpacks, remain incommunicado, and chase down terrorists as far as they go. Didnt know whether it was fiction or fact. Is this the same group?? Anyone who has any info please share it

Major Sudhir Kumar of Para SF - The gear speaks for itself.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2000/200003 ... /main6.htm

[cbelwal]

Whats with calling this group special group - special force. Why doesnt the Army give its Special - Special Force some unique name like YumDoot or something ?

btw anyone heard of a unit called "Z5" or "ZS" ? Meet an uniformed JCO once with these lapels.

Yes. Didnt even know such a unit existed. Is it a 'special' special forces unit. Had heard about a unit solely dedicated to hunting down wanted terrorists. They live off the ground or their backpacks, remain incommunicado, and chase down terrorists as far as they go. Didnt know whether it was fiction or fact. Is this the same group?? Anyone who has any info please share it

[Ajay K]

Jagan Posted: 05 Oct 2006 06:38 pm Post subject:


Major Sudhir Kumar of Para SF - The gear speaks for itself.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2000/200003 ... /main6.htm

Shame to loose such brave skilled hands. Aren't these guys armed enough? Lobbing a grenade would have killed the rats in one go. Why did he have to brave with open chest into the hideout? Shame and pity that IA does not arm these men well when on such missions.

[Rajit Ojha]

Shame to loose such brave skilled hands. Aren't these guys armed enough? Lobbing a grenade would have killed the rats in one go. Why did he have to brave with open chest into the hideout? Shame and pity that IA does not arm these men well when on such missions.

Ahem...since no live video exists of the firefight, how would you know no grenades were lobbed?

Maj. Walia and his buddy killed anywhere between 5-9 guys in CQB,and with the Jehadi types, they rarely surrender. Sometimes SF guys...and that's why they are "special"...put themselves in a near impossible situation with cool calculation. Echoes of Shugart and Gordon - Delta Operators killed in Mogadishu

http://www.homeofheroes.com/moh/citatio ... ugart.html

Even from a purely statistical perspective, SF units always have a higher ratio of people killed - SAS, SEALS, Delta-you name it, because they put themselves in harm's way more often than others.

The real shame is that we lose these guys killing rank and file vermin and not in cutting of the the head of the hydra...but thats a whole different story involving impotent politicians and lack of understanding of SF as being a strategic, and not a tactical weapon

[SriKumar]

Jagan Posted: 05 Oct 2006 06:38 pm Post subject:
Major Sudhir Kumar of Para SF - The gear speaks for itself.
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2000/200003 ... /main6.htm

Even five months after Major Sudhir sacrificed his life for the nation, not a single person from the state government has payed his family a visit, let alone offer help. It is a matter of great regret that the martyr who is being revered by the entire nation, is a forgotten man in his home state.

Saw this at the end of the article (dated March 2000). I hope things are not the same now...

[jonathan.gabriel]

Folks, need some enlightening about theSpecial Group within the Para Commandos. Why are they called so? What are the operations they carry out? Any information regarding them is welcome.

Actually yes there is a force called Special Group which has been raised by the Army in J&K. These guys are usually on covert missions to gather intelligence, sabotage, etc. But its not a part of the Parachute Regiment as such. There are personell from other arms also in this unit. One neighbour of mine who served in the Special Group was from AAD. He says that members of the group cannot be indentifed easily by the locals or terrorists as they blend in with the population. They dress like locals and even grow beards. Below is a picture of a PARA officer from Special Group. Notice the insignia below the combat diver badge.



Image courtesy:www.majorudaisingh.com

[Rakesh]

www.majorudaisingh.com - that is a really neat site. I went there once earlier. The sheer bravery of these guys...truly impressive.

[Mandeep]

General Inder Gill did not serve with the SAS but with the Royal Engineers. He parachuted into Crete to carry out sabotage and was awarded the Military Cross for his achievements,leadership and bravery.

[ramana]

Mandeep I read long ago about Gen Gill. Can you locate his citation?

[Harry]

General Inder Gill did not serve with the SAS but with the Royal Engineers. He parachuted into Crete to carry out sabotage and was awarded the Military Cross for his achievements,leadership and bravery.

Yes, thats probably correct but I could recall some deployment in the British Special Forces. He was also CO of 1 Para, served with 2 Para in Korea and later on commanded 50 Indep Para brigade. His last jump from an An-32 at Chennai, was in 1997, but he sustained an injury from it.

[Ajay K]

Folks, here is another special operation gone public. No marks for guessing which unit was dropped off. Strategic tool being misused?

[Ajay K]

Some snaps from the Balance Iroquosis 2003.
http://forum.apan-info.net/summer03/22_27/22.html

Meet the Australian Special Air Service Regiment.
http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-arm ... r/sasr.htm

[member_8802]

Can a short service commissioned officer join the SF/Para?

[svinayak]

Anybody seen this
http://forum.apan-info.net/summer03/36_44/36.html

[rkhanna]

Can a short service commissioned officer join the SF/Para?

Yes i think you can.
Officers only stay in the SF/Paras for 4 years (some opt for extensions) before they get rotated to other Units. So yea a SCO shouldnt have a problem opting for the Paras.

[brijlal]

Jagan Posted: 05 Oct 2006 06:38 pm Post subject:


Major Sudhir Kumar of Para SF - The gear speaks for itself.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2000/200003 ... /main6.htm

if there is a way to contact major sudhir's parents, please publish it, more than one jingo (including this one) would be ready to prove that their sacrifice means something (UP government can go to hell),

thank you

[brijlal]

Whats with calling this group special group - special force. Why doesnt the Army give its Special - Special Force some unique name like YumDoot or something ?

good point,
some vip or some wife of some babu come up these names,
someone previously mentioned all the indian stuff made up of feminine names,

sitaraa = jet trainer
tejas = fighter
dhruv = heli
akash = missile

if they could
arjun MBT would be called peace-loving-sweetie or something

i think its a treason to give such names, either they have no courage to make deadly names or know that these are not deadly machines,

wimps all wimps, what a disappointment, no deadly spirit to build killing machines,

[Raja Bose]

if there is a way to contact major sudhir's parents, please publish it, more than one jingo (including this one) would be ready to prove that their sacrifice means something (UP government can go to hell),

thank you

Seconded. If any B-R admin has Subedar Walia's contact address please email it. Thank you.

Special Group was not raised by the Army for J & K but is in fact a part of the SFF (I believe the B-R page on SFF mentions it also). They did have a high rate of KIAs if TOI obits are anything to go by so one can only imagine the kind of the missions these guys undertook.

Special Forces are not special just becoz of their weaponry or training but becoz they consist of men (and now women) who can handle situations (sometimes knowing fully well it will be at the peril of their lives) which ordinary people like you and I cannot even dream of.

[Raja Bose]

umm....didnt seem to unsuccessful going by the contents of the link below. They caught all the bad guys, suffered no casualties. The 'boat acquisition' aspect of the op has hints of a similar technique pulled by SOG in vietnam (in conjunction with Biet Hai operatives).

must be one of the unsuccessful missions

The paras finally went in by sea

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... Delft.html

[Surya]

Raja

The failure was referring tothe picture of paras in the helos. The BRM article mentions that helo missions failed as the LTTE terrorists could hear the choppers and disappear in the population

[CPrakash]

[

i think its a treason to give such names, either they have no courage to make deadly names or know that these are not deadly machines,

wimps all wimps, what a disappointment, no deadly spirit to build killing machines,

Jeez, So much rage, so much anger...

Why are you bothered about names, when the job can gets done eitherway? If you have better names, you are free to get in touch/join up/get elected and decide on them rather than whining on us here.....

[Raja Bose]

Thanks for the clarification. Was sad to see the level of equipment of the paras sitting in the helo though

Raja

The failure was referring tothe picture of paras in the helos. The BRM article mentions that helo missions failed as the LTTE terrorists could hear the choppers and disappear in the population

[shyamd]

NSG to get second batch of women commandos

[quote]It has been a year since they were inducted into National Security Guard (NSG), but in this short time the 11 women commandos of this special force have proved their mettle to be no less than their male counterparts.

In fact, the team has done its duty well enough for the NSG to start the scrutiny and selection procedure for the second batch of women commandos. The candidates are to be tested and picked up from women battalions of the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF).

Apart from carrying out VIP protection duties, the current team has also served as ‘sky marshals’. A part of the team was attached to BSP leader Mayawati, who has Z category security cover. The senior-most officer among the present 11 is lady officer Tejinder Kaur, an officer of the rank of a deputy commandant. “The 11 commandos were put through rigorous training along with the men and then inducted. The selection process for the second batch is on. After it is over, the selected candidates will be put through rigorous training and then drafted,â€

[Raja Bose]

Two thumbs up! Is there any other special force in the world which has women in their combat arms? (14 Det doesn't count).

[quote="shyamd"]NSG to get second batch of women commandos

[quote]It has been a year since they were inducted into National Security Guard (NSG), but in this short time the 11 women commandos of this special force have proved their mettle to be no less than their male counterparts.

In fact, the team has done its duty well enough for the NSG to start the scrutiny and selection procedure for the second batch of women commandos. The candidates are to be tested and picked up from women battalions of the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF).

Apart from carrying out VIP protection duties, the current team has also served as ‘sky marshals’. A part of the team was attached to BSP leader Mayawati, who has Z category security cover. The senior-most officer among the present 11 is lady officer Tejinder Kaur, an officer of the rank of a deputy commandant. “The 11 commandos were put through rigorous training along with the men and then inducted. The selection process for the second batch is on. After it is over, the selected candidates will be put through rigorous training and then drafted,â€

[rkhanna]

Two thumbs up! Is there any other special force in the world which has women in their combat arms? (14 Det doesn't count).

Israel has an ALL women SF unit. And SOF-D also has a small all female unit .

But before you jump the gun . these women "commandos" Are only SRG . Will only mainly do VIP Duties and do not form part of the SAG (the core of the HRT/CT capability of the NSG). So calling them Special Forces is a stretch. (similarly calling the SRG an SF unit would be a stretch).

[Raja Bose]

Well they are SRG coz they come from paramilitary orgs instead of army. They have been deployed as Sky Marshals it seems. It has never been clear to me as to what are the differences in actual training imparted to the SRG vs. the SAG in the light of their different roles.... can SAG work in SRG's domain etc.?

There was a rumour once that Yael Dayan(daughter of Moshe Dayan) was part of an all-female SF unit. Whats the name of the israeli all-female unit that you mentioned?

when you said SOF-D, do you mean SFOD-D aka Delta Force? There were rumours that Delta force had female operatives but havent found any authoritative source conforming that till now.

Any public sources which hint at existence of the all-female units you mentioned below?

Two thumbs up! Is there any other special force in the world which has women in their combat arms? (14 Det doesn't count).

Israel has an ALL women SF unit. And SOF-D also has a small all female unit .

But before you jump the gun . these women "commandos" Are only SRG . Will only mainly do VIP Duties and do not form part of the SAG (the core of the HRT/CT capability of the NSG). So calling them Special Forces is a stretch. (similarly calling the SRG an SF unit would be a stretch).

[rkhanna]

Well they are SRG coz they come from paramilitary orgs instead of army. They have been deployed as Sky Marshals it seems. It has never been clear to me as to what are the differences in actual training imparted to the SRG vs. the SAG in the light of their different roles.... can SAG work in SRG's domain etc.?

There was a rumour once that Yael Dayan(daughter of Moshe Dayan) was part of an all-female SF unit. Whats the name of the israeli all-female unit that you mentioned?

when you said SOF-D, do you mean SFOD-D aka Delta Force? There were rumours that Delta force had female operatives but havent found any authoritative source conforming that till now.

Any public sources which hint at existence of the all-female units you mentioned below?

SOF-D = Delta Force yes. I have a habit of Collecting NonFictional Literature on SF units and at least 3 Books i have read mention an All women unit in Delta.

specialoperations.com carried an article sometime back on an All Women Israeli Unit. Cant remember its name (israeli names are hard to remmeber and they have so many damn units. ) Apparently Gaddafi is also protected by Women Body guards who also have a fierce reputation.

About the SAG/SRG. Yes there is a substantial difference in their training regimes. SRG is basically tasked with the Intel Gathering and Perimeter Security while the SAG are the Door Kickers and Main Assaulters.

While at the most basic level the SRG does have an HRT capability it is very limited. (probably less than LAPD SWAT for example). Simply because they dont train day in and day out for it. I was told that the SAG on active training (rotation) sometimes expends up to 300-400 Rounds of Ammo a Week per Trooper. The SRG just arnt trained enough to perform the tasks of the SAG. And HRT/CT is all about training , Day in and Day out for 365 days ( i visited the NSG Media day affair a few years back.. ) And believe it or not The SAG also trains for paramilitary ops (not just urban CT) . They have been deployed with the Para-SF in Kashmir in the past and against Veerappan and the NE. The SRG just doesnt have that flexibility.

And frankly in my opinion the SPG is far better suited AND trained for VIP protection duties. Over time the bulk of the SRG should be merged with the SPG so that the SAG can utilize its funds better.

[Raja Bose]

SOF-D = Delta Force yes. I have a habit of Collecting NonFictional Literature on SF units and at least 3 Books i have read mention an All women unit in Delta.

Yeah I have read/heard about mentions to them but am not sure if they are undercover operatives who work with delta or full fledged delta operators. Delta had a reputation (some years old) of having a all-male and all-white composition so a little hard to visualize that!

specialoperations.com carried an article sometime back on an All Women Israeli Unit. Cant remember its name (israeli names are hard to remmeber and they have so many damn units. ) Apparently Gaddafi is also protected by Women Body guards who also have a fierce reputation.

yes used to have some archive pics of Gaddafi's rambhas....some of them were quite good looking! I think during their 1st war israel did have an all woman unit...dont know about now though.

While at the most basic level the SRG does have an HRT capability it is very limited. (probably less than LAPD SWAT for example).

I have seen this comparison with NYPD/LAPD SWAT on all those juvenile military boards and how they are so good. While there is no doubt SWAT in those cities are very well equipped and do their jobs well but I havent seen them myself (or heard of them) handle any situation anywhere even close to what the likes of NSG/Delta handle. I am doubtful of their usefulness against say a well trained die hard jehadi as opposed to say a drug dealer or a armed whacko taking his family hostage. Ofcourse due to the unique composition of NSG makes it hard to compare their capabilities with the usual kind of CT/HRT unit like SAS/Delta....NSG seems to want to be the jack of all trades with both SAG and SRG components.

They have been deployed with the Para-SF in Kashmir in the past and against Veerappan and the NE. The SRG just doesnt have that flexibility.

SAG was/is deployed with Para(SF) in Kashmir but I believe the NSG in their 1st of 2 deployments for hunting Veerappan had SRG personnel in the team.

And frankly in my opinion the SPG is far better suited AND trained for VIP protection duties. Over time the bulk of the SRG should be merged with the SPG so that the SAG can utilize its funds better.

I agree absolutely. SPG is perfectly trained for its role and I find the SRG tasked with a role which can be performed as competently by the state police commandos for example (with money coming from thats state's exchequer instead of the centre's). Instead of having a separate SRG to do perimeter duty they should train central and state police commandos etc. to do that job. 7500 personnel is way too bloated for a specialized organization like NSG.

Any interesting observations you wish to share from the NSG media day you attended?

[cbelwal]

Some pics here...

http://beautifulatrocities.com/archives ... zon_1.html


"Gaddafi surrounds himself with handpicked female bodyguards to foil such attacks. All of them swear an oath that they will give their lives for him. They never leave his side, night or day, & he insists they remain virgins...

yes used to have some archive pics of Gaddafi's rambhas....some of them were quite good looking! I think during their 1st war israel did have an all woman unit...dont know about now though.

[khan]

Yes. Didnt even know such a unit existed. Is it a 'special' special forces unit. Had heard about a unit solely dedicated to hunting down wanted terrorists. They live off the ground or their backpacks, remain incommunicado, and chase down terrorists as far as they go. Didnt know whether it was fiction or fact. Is this the same group?? Anyone who has any info please share it

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2000/200003 ... /main6.htm

From the article:

He was entrusted with important tasks, which included being sent on special secret missions to Pakistan. "It was not without reason that bhai was chosen for these difficult jobs. He had a flair for languages, he had mastered Persian and Sindhi. He was also an expert in the use of explosives and could easily decode the wireless messages of the militants," disclosed Arun, younger brother of Major Sudhir.

The 31-year-old officer was killed in the dense forests of Haphruda in Kupwara, but only after gunning down a few militants.

Why are we sending gifted assests like this fellow for COIN ops especially in the field? Couldn't he be put to better use?

[Raja Bose]

Read Ved Prakash Malik's thoughts about Maj. Kumar and you will understand what kind of stuff this man was made of. He did not believe in sitting back on his laurels and always wanted to be in the forefront. Gen.Malik mentions that during Op.Vijay Maj. Kumar was his ADC but insisted on taking leave to rejoin his unit(9 Para Cdo) and did so without even proper acclimatization....the rest is ofcourse is history.

Even if he had known in advance that he would not live to see the end of the operation he would have gone ahead with leading it as planned. A truly remarkable man (in other aspects too).....unfortunately people like him are dying so our Manmohan Singhs can extend 'concessions' and be bhai-bhai to the pigs.

Why are we sending gifted assests like this fellow for COIN ops especially in the field? Couldn't he be put to better use?