Discussion on Indian Special Forces

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Manish_P » 03 Oct 2018 17:30

And the French who don't want to be left behind

French Navy Special Forces Airdrop their ECUME RHIB from a C-130H Aircraft



Of course, the seas have to be calm enough, else the rescuers will quickly need rescuing themselves

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 03 Oct 2018 19:02

The Guardian film on us coast guard with kevin costner and ashton kucher has some good swim rescue scenes

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 03 Oct 2018 23:09

Dropping a boat is not a big deal even our p8 can do it

Rest people are jumping individually as in the old days

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Manish_P » 04 Oct 2018 08:14

Yes. Not a big deal for a well trained military like ours. Almost routine for dedicated para rescue teams and for the extremely adaptive special forces.

However needs conducive conditions in the area of operations. And a ship would still be needed to complete the rescue (with 10 to 15 mtr waves, no amphibious aircraft, not even the U-2 would have been able to land anywhere near the boat). Possibly (range and refueling permitting) the aircraft might have been handy to pick him from the French islands to India.

Hence the plan, while considerably dangerous and very risky, was not that ill concieved as some (journos) have tried to make it to be.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rakesh » 11 Nov 2018 22:54

Remember Para Commando Singh by how he lived and not by how he died. Twitter is abuzz with pictures of his body. Please do not post those pictures in the forum.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paratrooper dies after parachute fails to open at 9000 ft during training in Agra
https://www.news18.com/news/india/iaf-p ... 34563.html

Lucknow: An Indian Air Force paratrooper was killed on Thursday after his parachute failed to open mid-air during a training exercise in Agra’s Malpura. The incident happened when 26-year-old Hardeep Singh, belonging to the 11th Regiment, jumped from 9000 feet and his parachute got entangled in his hand. Singh was rushed to a military hospital where he died. Singh, who hailed from Patiala in Punjab, served in the services for over five years and was posted in Assam. He was part of a group of 40 men participating in a basic free-fall jump course.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://twitter.com/MajorPoonia/status/ ... 2717627393 ---> We lost our fellow comrade Para Commando Hardeep Singh of Special Forces in Combat Free Fall due to malfunction of main parachute & reserve parachute got entangled on body. Rest in Peace Brother.

Image

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby SaiK » 05 Dec 2018 17:49

Government of India contemplating on setting up an elite ‘Surgical Strikes Unit’

https://www.opindia.com/2018/12/governm ... -unit/amp/

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rakesh » 22 Dec 2018 22:17

https://twitter.com/indiandefence11/sta ... 1258717184 ---> Squadron Leader Rajeev Chauhan of 617 Garud Flight which was deployed in Kashmir

>Garud Commando Badge
>Air Traffic Controler Badge
>Para Wings
>Vayu Sena Medal
>9 Years Service Medal
>Special Service Medal
>Sainya Seva Medal
>Special Forces Tab
>AOC-in-C Commendation

Image

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby VinodTK » 08 Jan 2019 01:42

Dr Rao: India’s First And Only Commando Trainer
:
:
This stereotype prevails heavily in the Indian forces, where women are found to be in alarmingly low numbers, as opposed to men. Dr. Seema Rao is one such person to have broken these stereotypes by being India’s first and only woman commando trainer. She has specialised in closed quarter battle (CBQ) and has trained various armed forces for 20 years. She is rightly known as India’s Wonder Woman.
:
:

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Yagnasri » 08 Jan 2019 10:05

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/indiandefence11/status/1075925721258717184 ---> Squadron Leader Rajeev Chauhan of 617 Garud Flight which was deployed in Kashmir

>Garud Commando Badge
>Air Traffic Controler Badge
>Para Wings
>Vayu Sena Medal
>9 Years Service Medal
>Special Service Medal
>Sainya Seva Medal
>Special Forces Tab
>AOC-in-C Commendation

Image


Should we be posting his photo here? I thought SF people photos are not normally posted anywhere.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rahul M » 08 Jan 2019 20:16

VinodTK wrote:Dr Rao: India’s First And Only Commando Trainer
:
:
This stereotype prevails heavily in the Indian forces, where women are found to be in alarmingly low numbers, as opposed to men. Dr. Seema Rao is one such person to have broken these stereotypes by being India’s first and only woman commando trainer. She has specialised in closed quarter battle (CBQ) and has trained various armed forces for 20 years. She is rightly known as India’s Wonder Woman.
:
:

somehow I have serious doubts about this lady's story. every 2-3 years I read a few hagiographies about her in 2 bit websites mentioning her superlative qualities. I am sorry how does a civilian suddenly become qualified to train the country's rack commando's, the bio doesn't explain.
she is apparently also an award winning filmmaker. leaving aside the fact that the award itself seems to be a paid one, the listing doesn't mention her movie. https://www.imdb.com/event/ev0002179/2015/1/?ref_=ev_eh

seems to be another 'grand master shifuji' who similarly claimed many things about helping the army before the army clarified that he was a fraud.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 09 Jan 2019 12:02

Rahul M wrote:

somehow I have serious doubts about this lady's story. every 2-3 years I read a few hagiographies about her in 2 bit websites mentioning her superlative qualities. I am sorry how does a civilian suddenly become qualified to train the country's rack commando's, the bio doesn't explain.
she is apparently also an award winning filmmaker. leaving aside the fact that the award itself seems to be a paid one, the listing doesn't mention her movie. https://www.imdb.com/event/ev0002179/2015/1/?ref_=ev_eh

seems to be another 'grand master shifuji' who similarly claimed many things about helping the army before the army clarified that he was a fraud.



While i 100% agree with you.

THOUGH from Wiki (deepak rao is her husband)


"Deepak Rao[21] was granted the honorary rank of Major in the Parachute Battalion TA by the President of India for outstanding contribution beyond the call of duty in area of modernization of Close Quarter Battle training. He was made Brand Ambassador[2][22] to Territorial Army and Indian Army, along with MS Dhoni and Abhinav Bindra. Along with his wife, Dr. Seema Rao, Deepak Rao was appointed as Resource Personnel for imparting training in Close Quarter Battle by the Ministry of Home Affairs, Government of India."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepak_Rao

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby negi » 09 Jan 2019 20:30

Rahul_M , you are kicking a hornet's nest in corporate world expression of such thought itself would get you in trouble with the HR . Some chaps got nukkad closed in the name of being anti women etc etc (just saying).

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rahul M » 09 Jan 2019 22:42

this isn't about a man vs woman thing from my POV, more of a civilian vs uniform thingy. such is life. anyway, how are you doing these days negiullah ?

rkhanna ji, the husband's honours seem to be legit, at least going by the letters on his website. not so sure about the spouse.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 18 Jan 2019 10:37

https://www.dailypioneer.com/2019/page1 ... seals.html

we will have a Special Ops Div by Nov.
excerpts
India to raise its own SEALs
India will soon have an elite unit of commandos drawn from the three Services to conduct special missions of strategic interest to the country. Named Armed Forces Special Operations Division, the unit will be on the line of the US Special Operations Command, which was responsible for taking out Osama Bin Laden.

The Armed Forces Special Operations Division will start functioning from November first week this year initially with a small team of commandos selected from the Special Forces of the Army, Marine Commandos (MARCOS) of the Navy, and Garud commando force of the Indian Air Forces(IAF).

The special division having 3,000 commandos will be headed by a Major General. The Government recently gave the clearance for the setting up of the squad along with creation of a Cyber Agency to be headed by a Navy officer of the equivalent rank. On the lines of the Commando Division, the Cyber Agency will also have experts from the three Services to fight the fast emerging threat of cyber warfare, officials said here on Thursday.

Both the specialised units will function under the Integrated Defence Staff (IDS) responsible for enhancing coordination and enabling prioritisation across different branches of the armed forces. The IDS will also oversee the setting up of the proposed Space Agency to be headed by an IAF officer for space-based missions.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Lalmohan » 18 Jan 2019 17:19

India already has its own SEALs, they are called the MARCOS!

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 18 Jan 2019 17:47

they might as well pool in resources and get some dedicated air assets.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rakesh » 01 Feb 2019 04:57

NSG's pictorial tribute to 26/11 Mumbai terror attack martyrs is awesome
https://english.manoramaonline.com/news ... ibute.html

Sample picture below. Please drag and drop picture into a new browser window. Nice wallpaper image for your PC :)

Image

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby MeshaVishwas » 09 Mar 2019 12:11


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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sajaym » 07 Apr 2019 12:20

x posting from the Indian Military helicopters thread.

India – MH-60R Multi-Mission Helicopters

For those of us who were crying for AC-130 gunship type support for our special forces, here's the next closest thing! Please specifically note the below weapons that this helicopter can carry:

1) AGM-114 Hellfire missiles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byIsaZ5WYyM

2)Advanced Precision Kill Weapons System (APKWS) rockets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2uQccsZf1Y

3) GAU-21 Crew Served guns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2SIbXksH_U

4)Naval Strike Missile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ysIZNvhC48

As and when our special forces use this helicopter for their infil/exfil into enemy territory, this bird is a transporter/awacs/attack helicopter all rolled into one. If we try to copy paste this helicopter into a Surgical Strike type operation here's the roles it can perform
a)Transport special force troopers to target location. CHECK
b)Monitoring of target location & surroundings during the operation and relaying video/images back to command. CHECK
c)Eliminating nearby enemy posts which try to interfere in the operation, with onboard GAU-21 gun & APKWS rockets. CHECK
d)Eliminating inbound reinforcement trucks,APCs,tanks with onboard APKWS rockets & Hellfire missiles. CHECK
e)Disabling nearby command & control modules like Brigade Headquarters/Airbase runways-ATC towers with onboard NSM missiles. HELL YES CHECK!

Despite what I say, these helicopters will probably gather rust on some ship but still what a capability for our special forces!

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby MeshaVishwas » 07 Apr 2019 12:44

sajaym wrote:
Despite what I say, these helicopters will probably gather rust on some ship

You have no clue on what you are talking about-Check checkety check.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby MeshaVishwas » 15 May 2019 07:44

Tri-services special forces’ div gets going
https://m.tribuneindia.com/article/tri-services-special-forces-div-gets-going/773091/amp?__twitter_impression=true
India’s elite unit of commandos drawn from all three armed forces has started functioning with the Ministry of Defence today appointing a Major General from the Army as its first commander. He will be in the rank of General Officer Commanding (GOC), a rank used in field formations.

Named the Armed Forces Special Operations Division (AFSOD), it will have special forces of the Army, Marine Commandos (MARCOS) of the Navy, and Garuda commando force of the IAF. The three forces have operated together but this will be first effort to bring them under a common command and control structure, an important step in integration of the three forces. It will also reduce costs of training besides logistics and administrative costs.
The government had approved in December last year the setting up of this division and also the creation of a Defence Cyber Agency (DCA) to be headed by a Navy officer of equivalent rank — a Rear Admiral. On May 1, Rear Admiral Mohit Gupta was appointed the first head of the DCA. Also, separately, work is on to set up a space agency to be headed by an IAF officer for space-based missions. All three are to be tri-services divisions.

The Armed Forces Special Operations Division will start functioning with a small team of commandos. This division will have around 3,000 trained commandoes to carry out warfare in jungles, at sea and attack or rescue helicopter operations.

The teams will be responsible for conducting missions that include targeting strategic installations, high-value targets in terms of terrorists and crippling the war-fighting capabilities of the enemy.

These three units will function under the Integrated Defence Staff (IDS).

The Naresh Chandra Committee in 2012 had recommended setting up three commands — Special Operations, Cyber and Space — to deal with new challenges facing national security.

The committee was asked by the government to give recommendations on fine-tuning higher defence management to enable the armed forces to fight in a fast-changing warfare scenario.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sudhan » 15 May 2019 15:04

^^
From ANI:

Major General AK Dhingra appointed as the first Chief of the Armed Forces Special Operations Division. The tri-services formation will have Special Forces commandos from Army’s Parachute Regiment, Navy’s MARCOS and Air Force’s Garud Commando Force.


Finally, our own 'SOCOM'

I guess SG is not included in this cause they report to RAW and the NSA..

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Singha » 15 May 2019 15:10

we need to set an example. and the easiest ones are zakir naik and mehul choksi who are not under foreign state protection.

a shadowy KGB spetsnaz, mossad type unit reporting directly to director RAW, NSA and PM is needed drawn from SG, marcos, RAW, IB, NRTO, NIA to go after high value targets both in india and abroad.

the skills needed are obviously not just gunnery but suave polymath multilingual skills of officers both eating roti in a uri dhaba or a gin and tonic in a elite caribbean resort. it takes years of training and rigorous entry criteria to even find a few such men. intel is everything.

we need to bag these people and arrest them from nepal border trying to sneak into india.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby MeshaVishwas » 15 May 2019 17:57

Some additional info on Maj. Gen. Ashok Dhingra:
Maj. Gen. Dhingra, a Sri Lankan ops veteran, has been the commander of India’s only independent Para Brigade, and has served as the defence attaché in Washington. The concept of this division is also influenced from the US, which has the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC).

https://theprint.in/defence/india-gets-new-special-ops-division-that-can-cripple-targets-miles-inside-enemy-territory/235786/
And this is what Lt. Gen. Vinod Bhatia has to say about the officer:
One of the finest officers, military leader and Special forces soldier with a sharp intellect. Battle hardened and experienced. The best man to raise the all crucial Special Operations Division.

https://twitter.com/Ptr6Vb/status/1128623014894084096?s=19

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby naruto » 15 May 2019 19:17

Does the Para Commandos, Marcos and Garuds exist as separate entities under Armed Forces Special Operations Division or all of them clubbed in to one ?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sudhan » 15 May 2019 20:45

naruto wrote:Does the Para Commandos, Marcos and Garuds exist as separate entities under Armed Forces Special Operations Division or all of them clubbed in to one ?


They will exist as a separate units as per the existing structures.. the new SpecOps team will draw its operators (most likely exclusively) from these units and this SpecOp team will most likely be in charge of special missions, black ops types.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 16 May 2019 14:25

sudhan wrote:^^
From ANI:

Major General AK Dhingra appointed as the first Chief of the Armed Forces Special Operations Division. The tri-services formation will have Special Forces commandos from Army’s Parachute Regiment, Navy’s MARCOS and Air Force’s Garud Commando Force.


Finally, our own 'SOCOM'

I guess SG is not included in this cause they report to RAW and the NSA..



the SOD is not SOCOM. Its our JSOC - i.e a Tier 1 Counter Terrorism Unit.

Current SOF structures will remain and they are providing the initial feeding stock to the SOD.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 16 May 2019 14:29

Singha wrote:we need to set an example. and the easiest ones are zakir naik and mehul choksi who are not under foreign state protection.

a shadowy KGB spetsnaz, mossad type unit reporting directly to director RAW, NSA and PM is needed drawn from SG, marcos, RAW, IB, NRTO, NIA to go after high value targets both in india and abroad.

the skills needed are obviously not just gunnery but suave polymath multilingual skills of officers both eating roti in a uri dhaba or a gin and tonic in a elite caribbean resort. it takes years of training and rigorous entry criteria to even find a few such men. intel is everything.
.



You pretty much Described the Special Group/Vikas Unit - The issue has been that they have been too often being seconded to the Army for various ops. With the SOD coming online the SG could go back to their original Mandate.

PS - Technical Services Division was nothing more than rolling in ELINT/SIGINT/Humint Capabilities with Door Kickers

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby kit » 16 May 2019 15:38

wig wrote:https://www.dailypioneer.com/2019/page1/india-to-raise-its-own-seals.html

we will have a Special Ops Div by Nov.
excerpts
India to raise its own SEALs
India will soon have an elite unit of commandos drawn from the three Services to conduct special missions of strategic interest to the country. Named Armed Forces Special Operations Division, the unit will be on the line of the US Special Operations Command, which was responsible for taking out Osama Bin Laden.

The Armed Forces Special Operations Division will start functioning from November first week this year initially with a small team of commandos selected from the Special Forces of the Army, Marine Commandos (MARCOS) of the Navy, and Garud commando force of the Indian Air Forces(IAF).

The special division having 3,000 commandos will be headed by a Major General. The Government recently gave the clearance for the setting up of the squad along with creation of a Cyber Agency to be headed by a Navy officer of the equivalent rank. On the lines of the Commando Division, the Cyber Agency will also have experts from the three Services to fight the fast emerging threat of cyber warfare, officials said here on Thursday.

Both the specialised units will function under the Integrated Defence Staff (IDS) responsible for enhancing coordination and enabling prioritisation across different branches of the armed forces. The IDS will also oversee the setting up of the proposed Space Agency to be headed by an IAF officer for space-based missions.


I did mention in a previous post., the idea is to create specialists within units for very specific jobs...

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sudhan » 16 May 2019 16:15

rkhanna wrote:

the SOD is not SOCOM. Its our JSOC - i.e a Tier 1 Counter Terrorism Unit.

Current SOF structures will remain and they are providing the initial feeding stock to the SOD.


Thanks for pointing out saar, I got the concept right, but messed up the org

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 17 May 2019 00:09

rkhanna wrote:...
PS - Technical Services Division was nothing more than rolling in ELINT/SIGINT/Humint Capabilities with Door Kickers


I am not sure what door kickers means, but sounds like this is what a Special Operations unit should be?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 18 May 2019 13:15

Aditya G wrote:
rkhanna wrote:...
PS - Technical Services Division was nothing more than rolling in ELINT/SIGINT/Humint Capabilities with Door Kickers


I am not sure what door kickers means, but sounds like this is what a Special Operations unit should be?



I meant Assaulters - Military muscle to the Spooks

The TSD was closest to the American (JSOC) - ISA - Intelligence Support Activity - in basic description. I.e A Primary Military Intelligence Unit with a significant Covert recon capability -

The TSD would either pursue objectives then hand off to RAW/IB or Handoff to SG/SF for action. That is where SOD comes in - SOD would be the colloqual equivalent

The Four different concepts in play here are

1. Paramilitary Unit of an Intelligence agency - Special Group/Vikas (~CIA SAD)
2. The Intelligence Unit of a Special Operations Force - TSD - (~ USJSOC ISA)
3. A Tier I Counter Terrorism Task Force/Unit - SOD ( ~ USJSOC - Delta / DevGru + Associated Aviation Assets)
4. Vanilla SOF units With primary Wartime responsibilities against conventional OpFors - Army SF/Marcos/Garud ( ~ USSOCOM Units)

Each have different roles to play and ask for different training, infra, kit and budgets - Decent chunk of capabilities are overlapped and that comes in handy when your assets are stretched like the Americans find themselves currently all over the world

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rohitvats » 18 May 2019 16:01

rkhanna wrote: The SOD is not SOCOM. Its our JSOC - i.e a Tier 1 Counter Terrorism Unit.
Current SOF structures will remain and they are providing the initial feeding stock to the SOD.


Basis the information available so far, AFSOD is actually more like SOCOM than JSOC.

Even under SOCOM, each organization has its own set-up to manage their special forces and various aspects related to them. USSOCOM manages the underlying component commands of each of the services.

This is exactly what AFSOD will do. With the added feature of special forces contingents from each service directly under its command. Which will be used as per AFSOD mandate. So, unlike earlier times, when GOI went individually to Army, Navy or IAF, it will go directly to AFSOD to handle contingencies. If the troops directly under its control can handle the situation, good. Otherwise, it will coordinate with respective services to get the job done.

The above makes it have same responsibility, if not capability, as JSOC. For true JSOC capability to happen, between IA and IN, they'll have to evolve a tiered SF structure. Indian equivalent of Green Beret and Delta Force and SEALS and SEAL Team 6.

Till the above happens, expect the forces directly under AFSOD to be our semi-version of JSOC.

BTW, as per Twitter, the first GOC of AFSOD is a highly accomplished Para SF officer from 1 Para (SF).

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rkhanna » 18 May 2019 16:32

rohitvats wrote:
rkhanna wrote: The SOD is not SOCOM. Its our JSOC - i.e a Tier 1 Counter Terrorism Unit.
Current SOF structures will remain and they are providing the initial feeding stock to the SOD.


Basis the information available so far, AFSOD is actually more like SOCOM than JSOC.

Even under SOCOM, each organization has its own set-up to manage their special forces and various aspects related to them. USSOCOM manages the underlying component commands of each of the services.

This is exactly what AFSOD will do. With the added feature of special forces contingents from each service directly under its command. Which will be used as per AFSOD mandate. So, unlike earlier times, when GOI went individually to Army, Navy or IAF, it will go directly to AFSOD to handle contingencies. If the troops directly under its control can handle the situation, good. Otherwise, it will coordinate with respective services to get the job done.

The above makes it have same responsibility, if not capability, as JSOC. For true JSOC capability to happen, between IA and IN, they'll have to evolve a tiered SF structure. Indian equivalent of Green Beret and Delta Force and SEALS and SEAL Team 6.

Till the above happens, expect the forces directly under AFSOD to be our semi-version of JSOC.

BTW, as per Twitter, the first GOC of AFSOD is a highly accomplished Para SF officer from 1 Para (SF).



Actually right now there is only white noise in the press with even Ex Service members just writing for the sake of writing with themselves having little knowledge between a SOCOM and JSOC

From what i understand SOD will
1) draw cadre from all three services and will (most likely - will confirm soon) their own selection program
2) It will be one Cohesive Unit not seperate Silos for Army/ Navy / AF
3) Counter Terrorism is their PRIMARY tasking and they will have dedicated (but for now limited) Aviation Assets and ISR
4) Rest SOF Units will continue to serve their parent organizations and will prosecute missions outside the mandate of SOD

If anything it reads like a JSOC (in structure and - atleast on paper - tasking) - Keep in mind USSOCOM is (up til now) a subordinate command where its units when deployed come under the command of theater Commands and conventional commanders. JSOC answers directly to the NSC and President

Like you said SOCOM is a larger Beast under SOCOM you have the Army SOC , Navy Special Warfare Command and the AirForce Special operations Command and MARSOC all separate and all aligned.

JSOC is one Command with 4 Primary Teams - Delta, DevGru, ISA, 160th SOAR and support elements of a dedicated Ranger Company. - Our SOD is going to mirror that in alot of ways

a blanket Across Services SOCOM will require a far deeper paradigm shift from our Brass

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 18 May 2019 23:31

I doubt SOD will be new raising - probably they will ask one of the (numerous) Para SF battalions to rotate in and out, and supplemented with smaller detachments of MARCOS and Garuds. What can make it apart from others will be to have an organic Intel setup...

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rohitvats » 19 May 2019 11:05

First, if AFSOD is to work on similar lines as JSOC, both Indian Army and Indian Navy will have to create another set of special forces on lines of Delta and ST6.

The business of having a single Tier 1 SF unit under AFSOD, with combined manpower from all three services, seems a bit stretched for me. It makes ample sense for IA and IN to raise a new special forces entity amongst their existing SF structure.

For example, IA could raise its equivalent of Special Group which draws men from Para (SF) and also wider army to have a composite unit which is self sustained in all manner. This unit gets seconded to AFSOD for operational control. Administration remains with army (as Delta Force in case of US). Of course, it has its own probation and selection process.

Same goes for IN - they need their equivalent of ST6.

In case of IAF, a small body of troops could be trained to Para (SF) or MARCOS standard while retaining their core skills.

And I'm expecting at least a Mi-17 squadron and a Dhruv Squadron to be seconded to them for use; these machines being knitted out with required gear.

But evolving new Tier-1 units with IA and IN will require another 36 months, at least. There will be the whole process of approvals, setting up probation and selections standards, advanced training and then time for the unit to gel together.

BTW - it seems NSG remains out of the ambit of AFSOD. Which is a pity because they'll most probably the first respondents to any terrorist attack on mainland. Ideally, admin control can remain with MHA but operational control should be ceded to AFSOD. It will being synergy between all the special forces and smoothen operations.

In the mean-time, expect elements from Para (SF), MARCOS and Garud to be seconded to AFSOD.

Having said that, all the above is hearsay; we need to wait for full picture to emerge.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 19 May 2019 14:44

rohitvats wrote:
In case of IAF, a small body of troops could be trained to Para (SF) or MARCOS standard while retaining their core skills.

And I'm expecting at least a Mi-17 squadron and a Dhruv Squadron to be seconded to them for use; these machines being knitted out with required gear.

...

BTW - it seems NSG remains out of the ambit of AFSOD. Which is a pity because they'll most probably the first respondents to any terrorist attack on mainland. Ideally, admin control can remain with MHA but operational control should be ceded to AFSOD. It will being synergy between all the special forces and smoothen operations.

In the mean-time, expect elements from Para (SF), MARCOS and Garud to be seconded to AFSOD.

Having said that, all the above is hearsay; we need to wait for full picture to emerge.


To begin with the SOD will do well to bring about a very clear specialisation between 3 components;

Garuds should be para rescue, airfield seizure and target designators

Marcos will specialise in ship hijack and rescue, and generally anything maritime

Army SF will do much of the other work

Some like counter terror ops will be done by all.

I am tempted by the thought that 51 and 52 SAG should be moved out of NSG and shifted to SOD altogether ... Let NSG be a CAPF purely.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 27 Jul 2019 18:41

https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... ons/459700




latest weapons for the special forces
A high-level committee has just cleared the purchase of new weapons for the Special Forces, whether it is rifles, carbines, light and heavy machine guns, even parachutes and special helmets.

The weapons will be what the special forces of the United States armed forces use; they will be purchased through the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route and is expected by the year-end. The total cost is likely to be about Rs 850 crore.

some details
Services Capital Acquisition Plan Categorization Higher Committee (SCAPHCC), headed by a top-level army officer earlier this week has cleared the purchase of 1,500 carbines, 1,100 rifles, 400 parachutes, 100 sniper rifles, 750 light machine-guns and also, technical equipment that will enhance the capability of the special forces soldier.

They include silencers for the rifles/carbines that will muffle the sound of the shot being fired, telescopic sights (to be used during the day and different ones for use after dark), helmets that will have night vision goggles, heavy machine-guns and of course, necessary ammunition.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Ashokk » 19 Aug 2019 12:47

‘Killed, Maybe, But Never Caught’: The Tale Of Para Special Forces Officer Who Took Another Name
Excerpt from Shiv Aroor and Rahul Singh’s book ‘India’s Most Fearless 2: More Military Stories of Unimaginable Courage and Sacrifice’

Undisclosed location near Shopian, Jammu and Kashmir, March 2004

‘Something’s not right,’ Abu Torara whispered to the man slouched on a cot next to him. A pair of early summer evening sunbeams streamed into the room from a half-open window in their small hideout not far from Shopian, just over 50 km south of Srinagar.

Abu Sabzar drew deeply on a cigarette, exhaled through his nostrils, roughly scratched his beard and turned to look at Torara, who was on his feet, leaning against the wall. A pair of AK-47 assault rifles lay at the foot of the cot. Torara was looking straight ahead of him at the tiny doorway that led to the next room — a small balcony-cum-kitchen that opened out into the woods. Emanating from that direction was the sound of boiling water, the aroma of kahwa, the frothy pour of liquid into glass tumblers and their clink as they were placed on a tray.

‘You want to talk to him some more?’ Sabzar asked, stubbing out his cigarette on the windowsill next to him. Torara said nothing. A few seconds later, bearing a steel plate with glasses of tea, Iftikhar Bhatt stepped through the tiny doorway and into the room.

Six feet two inches tall, with hair down to his shoulders and most of his face covered with a bushy beard that flowed down his neck, Bhatt wore a stony expression as he stepped forward to offer the other two terrorists their tea. His own rifle was slung from his neck, resting at his side. After they had picked up their glasses, Bhatt picked up his own and sat down at the edge of the cot, silent, staring straight ahead.

Minutes passed as the three men sipped from their steaming glasses. Then, Torara stepped forward and spoke.

Bhatt said nothing, his face rigid, unmoved, his hand still bringing the tea up to his lips. He had and on Bhatt’s knee. ‘Who are you?’

Bhatt said nothing, his face rigid, unmoved, his hand still bringing the tea up to his lips. He had met the two terrorists two weeks earlier in a village near Shopian. They had never seen him before and he said very little apart from telling them the village he was from. A few days later, he opened up a little more, speaking about how his brother had been killed in an encounter three years ago.

Another young man, they thought, looking for revenge, looking for work with a militant outfit, both for a livelihood as well as for closure. At the end of a full week, he spoke his first full sentences, telling them he wanted their help with an attack on an Army checkpoint. He showed them hand-drawn maps depicting the movement of Army patrols along a little-known hill trail, research that suggested this young, bearded man of few words had already begun reconnaissance, the most crucial groundwork for a successful attack on security forces.

Torara and Sabzar were moderately impressed. Bhatt, clearly in his twenties, though the beard hid much of his youthfulness, had demonstrated the motivation to take matters into his own hands—half the battle in the process of radicalization. Tall and well-built, there was no doubt he could be useful in the rough, dark life of a militant in Kashmir. Over the following week, the two Hizbul men questioned Bhatt, presenting him with situations and asking him what he would do. Bhatt’s answer would remain the same, ‘I need your support, I want to learn.’

Torara and Sabzar were no ordinary terrorists. Both had gained a reputation for leading a highly effective recruitment campaign in south Kashmir. If Bhatt wanted to pick up a gun and get started, these were the men to get in touch with. The men weren’t surprised that Bhatt knew who they were.

At the end of two weeks, Torara and Sabzar told Bhatt that they would help with his proposed attack on the Army’s foot patrol north of Shopian, but that they needed to disappear for a few days, coordinate the logistics and finer points. Bhatt said he would not return to his village without completing his mission, with or without them. So they took him along to their hideout, where they now sat sipping hot tea.

The attack plan had been detailed and fleshed out. A consignment of grenades would arrive that night. Bhatt would be joined by three Hizbul men, who had been summoned from another village and would show up the following morning. They would then proceed in the evening to launch the attack, with the intention of killing as many of the soldiers as possible as they trudged through a short trough in the trail.

But Torara was having second thoughts. Something didn’t seem to fit. Squatting before Bhatt, he asked again.

‘Who are you?’

Bhatt, who had been circumspect and soft-spoken thus far, placed his tumbler down on the ground with a splash. Rising to his feet, he took the rifle from around his neck and dropped it on the ground with a clatter. Then, looking from Torara to Sabzar, he spoke, his voice quivering. ‘If you have any doubts about me, kill me,’ he said, his voice raised to its highest. ‘You cannot do this if you don’t trust me. So you have no choice but to kill me now.’

Torara rose to his feet, looking at Bhatt closely. And then, just as he turned to Sabzar, perhaps to ask what to do next, Bhatt pulled out a concealed 9-mm pistol and shot both the terrorists in the head. Sabzar slouched back into the cot. Torara was thrown against the wall, blood splattering against the white as he crumpled to the ground. Bhatt fired two more bullets, to be sure.

As the swirl of gun smoke cleared, Bhatt sat down on the cot, picked up the tumbler he had set down earlier and drained the tea. Then he waited for the sun to set before he could walk, in the darkness, back to where he had come from.

And when he reached there, he would, for the first time in a fortnight, be able to use his real name: Maj. Mohit Sharma, of the Army’s 1 Para Special Forces.


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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rohitvats » 19 Aug 2019 15:09

^^^Some really live their life on edge. The edge which most of us will never know about. While all human beings are equal, some people live lives which are beyond extraordinary. I'm glad that people like Major Mohit Sharma were born to Ma Bharati and lived amongst us. We're in eternal debt to soldiers like him.

- The above episode reminds me of a story told by Para (SF) chap of an officer and his buddy, who infiltrated into a tanjeem (LeT, IIRC), lived with them for a prolonged period and then not only wiped out the group they were living with, but they had built such incredible intelligence about the Tanjeem that it was thoroughly smashed in the Valley.


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