rkhanna wrote:[ Garud are Sporting SF + Garud Insignia on thier arms.
.
The "garud insignia" is not so . its merely the 'rank badge' - airman, leading airman etc
rkhanna wrote:[ Garud are Sporting SF + Garud Insignia on thier arms.
.
Dont worry...they themselves were moving around freely and posing for photographs with all and sundy. The blurring might be needed if these are from some private collection of "not so open" photos...Shouldn't their faces be blurred in the photos?
Jagan wrote:rkhanna wrote:[ Garud are Sporting SF + Garud Insignia on thier arms.
.
The "garud insignia" is not so . its merely the 'rank badge' - airman, leading airman etc
sum wrote:Dont worry...they themselves were moving around freely and posing for photographs with all and sundy. The blurring might be needed if these are from some private collection of "not so open" photos...Shouldn't their faces be blurred in the photos?
Yes, seen that quite a few times on regular IAF Uniforms. Not Garud related.rkhanna wrote:[
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/S ... 723046.JPG
Isnt the Patch under the SF Tab the Garud Insignia?
Same here
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/media/Aer ... 6.jpg.html
Operator on the Left. Between the SF and Rank Tabs isnt that the Garud Insignia?
rkhanna,rkhanna wrote: The reason/Rational for SF pics in the west being blurred was because often operators from Units such as the SAS and Delta ended up with Price Tags on their heads for terrorist they had/have killed (Andy Mcnab still has an old IRA price Tag on his head). Unfortunately Indian SF units simply arnt Offensive/Notorious enough to be given the same honor from thier opfor to mandate blanking out their faces. MARCOS is only Unit i know off that officially does not allow their Operators to reveal thier faces to the public.
uh, why the 'sahib'....all my life I have been addressed as 'hey you' and probab. younger than you too.sum wrote: Bose sahib,
Who is Sudhir Walia?
However, unlike some of the Western 'analysts' who claimed that their CT/HRT teams would have done a better job as compared to the NSG/Marcos teams, Mr. Arquilla seems to think otherwise.February 15, 2009
OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR
The Coming Swarm
By JOHN ARQUILLA
Monterey, Calif.
WITH three Afghan government ministries in Kabul hit by simultaneous suicide attacks this week, by a total of just eight terrorists, it seems that a new “Mumbai model” of swarming, smaller-scale terrorist violence is emerging.
The basic concept is that hitting several targets at once, even with just a few fighters at each site, can cause fits for elite counterterrorist forces that are often manpower-heavy, far away and organized to deal with only one crisis at a time. This approach certainly worked in Mumbai, India, last November, where five two-man teams of Lashkar-e-Taiba operatives held the city hostage for two days, killing 179 people. The Indian security forces, many of which had to be flown in from New Delhi, simply had little ability to strike back at more than one site at a time.
And the suggested strategy seems similar to the GoI plan of having multiple NSG hubs around the country.This pattern suggests that Americans should brace for a coming swarm. Right now, most of our cities would be as hard-pressed as Mumbai was to deal with several simultaneous attacks. Our elite federal and military counterterrorist units would most likely find their responses slowed, to varying degrees, by distance and the need to clarify jurisdiction.
While the specifics of the federal counterterrorism strategy are classified, what is in the public record indicates that the plan contemplates having to deal with as many as three sites being simultaneously hit and using “overwhelming force” against the terrorists, which probably means mustering as many as 3,000 ground troops to the site. If that’s an accurate picture, it doesn’t bode well. We would most likely have far too few such elite units for dealing with a large number of small terrorist teams carrying out simultaneous attacks across a region or even a single city.
BTW in the Afghan thread, Raja Ram postulated that the Pakis might be trying to send a message to Unkil & Co. Looks like the author has got the message and believes it.At the federal level, we should stop thinking in terms of moving thousands of troops across the country and instead distribute small response units far more widely. Cities, states and Washington should work out clear rules in advance for using military forces in a counterterrorist role, to avoid any bickering or delay during a crisis. Reserve and National Guard units should train and field many more units able to take on small teams of terrorist gunmen and bombers. Think of them as latter-day Minutemen.
Here's some info on the author:Yes, the swarm will be heading our way, too. We need to get smaller, closer and quicker. The sooner the better.
Here's the link:John Arquilla teaches in the special operations program at the Naval Postgraduate School and is the author of “Worst Enemy: The Reluctant Transformation of the American Military.”
Wont they have a counter SF role during war? I mean, say there are reports of enemy SF operating in an area inside India. They are to hunt and engage them. This will be within the NSG's internal security mandate.Rahul M wrote: about their role in case of war, I think that's a very interesting question.
I guess many would go back to their parent formations leaving a small group with the original mandate of HR/CRT.
or may be they can directly operate as SF units loaned to IA.(to go around the legal problems of jurisdiction, NSG being legally a police force)
May be hive off the VIP security to a wing within NSG. Create an SPG within NSG that handles proximate security exclusively. Of course this has to accompany with increase in numbers, budget, etc. But provides exclusive training to each section and using those sections judiciously.Raja Bose wrote:Aditya, SRG has other roles besides VIP duty....transferring them will hardly solve anything. Transferring the VIP duties to CISE would ofcourse make a lot of sense but then will our netas agree...they are more concerned about their hides than the country.
They should just hive off VIP duties to SPG....the SPG seems too well equipped and trained to be just protecting Rajmata and her chamchas.KiranM wrote:May be hive off the VIP security to a wing within NSG. Create an SPG within NSG that handles proximate security exclusively. Of course this has to accompany with increase in numbers, budget, etc. But provides exclusive training to each section and using those sections judiciously.Raja Bose wrote:Aditya, SRG has other roles besides VIP duty....transferring them will hardly solve anything. Transferring the VIP duties to CISE would ofcourse make a lot of sense but then will our netas agree...they are more concerned about their hides than the country.
Raja Bose wrote:Ray sir,
You make some very valid points which led me to rethink about what I said earlier. Knowing the lay of the land/area and ensuring that each region receives specific focus from a dedicated team is definitely required and the regional hubs address that in a big way. But one of the things I am afraid of, which is happen in such a scenario is that the it might bring the NSG into conflict with the local/state police wallah who consider it 'their' territory and may only cooperate during distress by which time it is too late (leading to same groping in the dark!). Since NSG has men from all units of IA, perhaps they can station men who are local to the area of posting and know the language and have some clue about the lay of the land and can talk to the local authorities on their terms. However, all said and done....main training has to be centralized with continuation training and regular refresher training distributed amongst hubs.
Also one of the main shortcomings seen during 26/11 - inadequate training and equipment of police to contain such terrorist attacks, will not be addressed as from now on the local pandu will hide behind the fig leaf that taking on terrorists is the NSG wallah's job and if another screw-up happens we will see pious press conferences from police chiefs saying they gave NSG all help so it is all NSG's fault onlee. Usually I am totally against advocating super-duper videshi SF tactics for Indian SF but in this case hopefully NSG will take a leaf out of 22SAS's book where each regional NSG hub invites the key police officers and personnel to the NSG hub to show them what capabilities they have, what help they can provide and regularly undertake interoperability drills with pandus on the ground, so that when the dung hits the fan, the police are not running around like headless chickens Mumbai-style! Ofcourse all this requires money and initiative on part of police also....being India onlee lets hope atleast some of it gets implemented without money-pinching babus cutting off funds till the next 26/11 happens.
Ray sir,RayC wrote: And wherever the police is in an enforcement mode, there has been widespread report of corruption. In Bengal, we have had two cases where the investigating officer in Singur and another investigation of a policeman (who was in the enforcement) found dead on the railway tracks has led to indications that money played a role.
Therefore, given the background in which the police functions, one wonders the efficacy.
US police is overwhelmingly filled with armed force veterans and that is why it is militaristic in all aspects (this probably started after WWII). This shows in how their officers conduct themselves in public, how they react and how they intimidate. Ofcourse they go way overboard in use of force (in fact it is a standing joke that in their parlance, 'use force with extreme prejudice' means they are going to shoot the living daylights out of you! ). But compare the way they project themselves to your local pandu/sergeant chewing his pan with his shirt hanging out exposing his large pot belly. Who evokes more confidence when abdul-jihadi is shooting his AK-47 at me at Sealdah stattion? Basic mindset has to change!The way the US police functions is totally a different kettle of fish. They can kill even innocents with overwhelming firepower and yet be absolved of any blame. I have earlier quoted the examples of the NYPD where even the Mayor and the Courts supported the police, even though the cases were clear cut ‘official’ murder. I don’t think the US example will work in India. When the Army can be slapped with Human Rights cases when operating against known and established terrorists, where do the Police have a chance?