Siachen News & Discussion

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Jagan » 28 Sep 2014 06:42

deejay, i only read your last post on top of this page.. I dont know who wrote the wikipedia articles, but seriously , capturing Lahore at the end of the 1965 war was out of question. After the initial foot hold was lost, there never appeared a concrete offensive plan to cross the canal in force and establish a foot hold. The army had fought itself to a stalemate on that front. Priorities had actually shifted to evicting the Pakistanis out of Khem Karan rather than try and capture Lahore.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby symontk » 29 Sep 2014 18:22

For the 1987 conflict press reports talked about 126 pak casualties against 16 Indian ones

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Bishwa » 30 Sep 2014 07:20

The 87 operations included a couple of battles - Operation Rajeev (Indian name) and Operation Qiadat (PA name). During these operations there were a lot of PA Casualties.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby deejay » 30 Sep 2014 14:33

Jagan wrote:deejay, i only read your last post on top of this page.. I dont know who wrote the wikipedia articles, but seriously , capturing Lahore at the end of the 1965 war was out of question. After the initial foot hold was lost, there never appeared a concrete offensive plan to cross the canal in force and establish a foot hold. The army had fought itself to a stalemate on that front. Priorities had actually shifted to evicting the Pakistanis out of Khem Karan rather than try and capture Lahore.


Thank You for the pointer Sir. My argument was that we did / do not have the political will as an aggressor or capturing enemy held territory. Infact, IMO, even the military does not know what to do when presented with such a possibility. It is also a reflection of how the military is in line with the political mandate of the various governments and how we Indians are oriented in terms of National ambitions.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 01 Oct 2014 07:38

Paul wrote:There is a photo of him with Mush in Colombo just before Mush flew back to Pak and overthrew NS in a coup.
Who si the "him" you are referring to here? care to share the pic?

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby abhijitm » 04 Oct 2014 15:54

Regular droppings from pakistani's pakistan about Siachen.

Paki Senator on Siachen
According to press reports, Senator Mushahid Hussain, chairman of the Senate Defence Committee, told the media that India and Pakistan should no longer view the Siachen issue as one of national security. It should rather be treated as a joint venture in safeguarding human security by jointly addressing the environmental degradation of Siachen, to face the consequences of climate change. According to the senator, one of the main reasons for adverse effects on the environment of Siachen is the chemical melting of ice{ hain! } to construct military barracks by India.

Senator Hussain presented a three-point peace plan for the Siachen area, where both India and Pakistan have lost tremendous resources and manpower {Taklif is India lost but not any more, but pakistan is still losing}, in the last three decades – demilitarisation; conversion of Siachen into a peace park {oh, I remember of a former Indian prime minister - who usually never used to speak - said the same! what a coincident!!!}; joint efforts to preserve the environment of Siachen. I hope both countries seriously consider these immensely sensible proposals, which are bound to be of great benefit to the people of South Asia.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby vishvak » 04 Oct 2014 22:07

If IA keeps shelling paki positions from Siachen, Pakis can't reply because of environmental concerns that pakis show for other countries.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 06 Oct 2014 18:47

^^^ Pakees seem to have a al Takleef about maintaining Siachen posts... A combination of terrain, weak poitions, lack of technology and resources compells them to smoke the peace pipe in Siachen. The same TSPA which roars to vows to defend every inch elsewhere becomes a mouse here...

MMS's Peace Park Blather seems to have given them a hope to get some parity with Desh with their H&D intact. Am glad that Saint did not endorse this plan of MMS for all his other collosal giveaways.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby vishvak » 06 Oct 2014 18:58

It is not just about peace, it is about administration too. Just because Siachen has little population, one can't make schemes under peace label, or ignore that Indians are democratic (& not barbarians like pukis) and therefore India would have elected officials from here in case the area was settled by civilized people (& not barbarians and power grabbers.) We should shell paki positions from across siachen whenever pakis shell any positions from across the border. We seem to have bought the idea that we need to parade civic sense by smoking peace pipes with barbarians across the border.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby chetak » 06 Oct 2014 22:57

Shrinivasan wrote:^^^ Pakees seem to have a al Takleef about maintaining Siachen posts... A combination of terrain, weak poitions, lack of technology and resources compells them to smoke the peace pipe in Siachen. The same TSPA which roars to vows to defend every inch elsewhere becomes a mouse here...

MMS's Peace Park Blather seems to have given them a hope to get some parity with Desh with their H&D intact. Am glad that Saint did not endorse this plan of MMS for all his other collosal giveaways.


There would have been some very serious public unpleasantness from the IA.

No one will accept IG type of foolishness as was done with bhutto.

There is no peace pipe in siachen. the pakis are vociferously demanding parity where none exists or can exist.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Vipul » 07 Oct 2014 04:41

But then the self defeating Indian peacenik aka hashish smoking Sheikchilli will strike when none of us will suspect.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 07 Oct 2014 10:37

chetak wrote:No one will accept IG type of foolishness as was done with bhutto.

It is OT here... but I always wonder by IG in her moment of TRIUMPH, went on to do such a farcical agreement with the Pukes... what was the ground situation? Who were her advisors? what was the external pressures for her to rush into such a deal? Was there Track-II, Track-III discussions going on at that time?

Did Pakees have some personal leverage over her? I cannot see any reason for IG to yield so much ground to the pigs even if they fell at her feet and licked it clean (which anyway all congressmen were doing daily)

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby VijayN » 30 Oct 2014 07:58

Please take a moment to read this - For all the anti-nationals out there, when we have such dedicated/iron men defending the nation you will lose. And for the Track ek do theen..hazaar walas, what can I say!!

#Respect and Salaam to the IA

16 Things You Should Know About India’s Soldiers Defending Siachen

http://topyaps.com/know-about-indian-soldiers-in-siachen

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby g.sarkar » 03 Nov 2014 01:06

http://www.dawn.com/news/1141375/siache ... wild-roses
By Feryal Ali Gauhar
The ink-stained veil of night lifts slowly as the car makes its way through silent streets towards the airport. It is not yet dawn, I have slept only a few hours between one journey and the next, and my heart races with anticipation as I watch the sun rise over the Margallah range on a late summer morning.
Having taken this flight from Islamabad to Skardu many times over 25 years, I have learnt to look for clouds lining the top of the Margallah mountains – if pilots can find a window in those clouds, the plane would wind its way amongst the world’s highest peaks and land safely in the high altitude desert-valley of Baltistan’s administrative headquarters, Skardu.
I peer through the window at the clouds and wonder whether I will be lucky today. Then I shut my eyes tight and say a prayer under my breath, for a safe journey, one which shall take me to the end of the earth, the top of the world, to the place of wild roses: Siachen, the world’s highest battlefield, a place where roses grow only in the fertile soil of one’s imagination.
It is still early when the flight lands in Skardu, the plane gently setting itself down like a large bird of prey descending upon a startled animal. In the air I can sense the coming of winter.
The light throws gentle shadows upon the sand dunes in this high altitude desert landscape, cradled by mountains which appear to be sleeping behemoths, their massive presence awe-inspiring yet reassuring, as if someone was watching over you.
I am met in the arrivals lounge by Major Shumaila, PRO to the Headquarters of the FCNA stationed at Gilgit. Major Shumaila is the first woman officer in the Pakistan Army from Gilgit-Baltistan and has travelled to Skardu from Gilgit to meet me. ......"
Matlab: De De Baba, Allah ke Naam pe De De.
Gautam

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 03 Nov 2014 09:18

All the more reason for the Pakistani military to authenticate the AGPL as an extension of LOC. or Why not withdraw from the Northern areas as a peace Park.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Vipul » 14 Apr 2015 07:43

How a stranded chopper was brought back from under the nose of the enemy, from Nitin A Gokhale’s book, Beyond NJ9842: The Siachen Saga.

‘Flying here is certainly not for the faint hearted’
3rd June 1990: Two Cheetah helicopters of the Indian Air Force (IAF) are on a regular air maintenance run to the Siachen glacier. As was the routine by that time — six years into Operation Meghdoot — the first shuttles were to Amar and Sonam posts, the two highest helipads on the Siachen Glacier, located at altitudes in excess of 20,000 feet above mean sea level.

Shelling
Flt Lt B Ramesh and Flying Officer Naresh were leading the run and were supposed to land at Sonam. Flt Lt WVR Rao and Flying Officer Suresh Nair, in the second Cheetah, were scheduled to touch down at Amar, not very far from Sonam.

Rao remembers that day to be slightly warmer than usual at about 10 degrees, high for the glacier but understandable in the summer months. “At those heights, when temperature goes beyond 5 degrees, the ‘density altitude’ at Amar and Sonam is actually close to 23,000 feet, the ultimate limit at which these helicopters can and should fly. But in those conditions we could carry barely 5 kg load on the Cheetah. The rising temperature can have such an impact on the load carrying capacity of the helicopters,” he remembers. Rao and Nair landed normally at Amar but as they revved up to take off the helicopter engine ‘surged’ and the machine just sat down on the helipad.

“Amar is hardly 3000 metres from a Pakistani post located at a lower altitude. Even as we were struggling to figure out what went wrong, shelling from Pakistani post started. Remember those were pre-ceasefire days,” Rao reminisced.

Evacuation
The two pilots quickly ducked inside the bunker and sent a message to the other helicopter not to come towards Amar since shelling from the Pakistani post had begun but Flt Lt Ramesh would have none of it. He made two quick runs to Amar and evacuated Rao and Nair one by one since it is inadvisable for any one not acclimatised properly to stay at 20,000 feet for more than 15-20 minutes. “Ramesh landed on snow since the helipad was already occupied by our machine. He held the chopper on partial power, lest his helicopter too toppled over and lifted us away even as the ever present danger of the Pakistanis targeting the helicopter remained,” Rao says recalling those terrifying minutes.

The pilots were back safely to the Base Camp but the problems for the Air Force were just beginning. The chopper was now stuck at Amar, a juicy target for the Pakistanis. Moreover, how does one repair a helicopter at 20,000 feet? How would the technicians get there? How long would they take to acclimatise? Normally when Army jawans get deployed at Amar or Sonam posts, they spend at least 10 days at gradually increasing altitude to get acclimatised. That luxury was however not available to the IAF technicians since the Cheetah was a sitting duck at Amar and it needed to be extracted as soon as possible.

As senior Army and Air Force officers both in Leh and Delhi put their heads together to find a quick solution to this unique problem, troops of the Sikh Light Infantry unit deployed at the Amar post overnight constructed a snow wall, a snow column really, to shield the helicopter sitting smugly on the Amar post from any Pakistani firing!

Stranded
Construction of the snow wall was just the beginning of the innovation employed to retrieve the stranded helicopter from the Amar post. A team of technicians, led by Fl Lt G Sreepal was selected and inducted into the Glacier. Because of the urgency to repair the helicopter as soon as possible, the technical team was flown to a post at 15,000 feet for initial acclimatisation. Normally the first stage acclimatisation for army soldiers begins at 9,000 feet. After three days of stay there, the technicians walked to a post that is located at 18,000 feet. Finally they reached Amar on 10 June, a week after the helicopter had soft landed on the post! At the post itself, additional facilities had to be created for the arrival of the Air Force technical crew. Meanwhile the soldiers on the post had to keep replenishing the ‘wall’ with fresh ice lest it melted away due to the strong sun, a common feature during the summer months!

Replacement
Now the problem of carrying a replacement engine to Amar remained. Rao remembers: “The bosses had to select an aero engine with least starting temperature. To carry it wasn’t easy. The most powerful of the available Cheetahs with least fuel consumption was earmarked for the airlift of the engine. Now came the question of fitting in the engine in the smallish Cheetah. To overcome the problem of space, the co-pilot’s seat was removed, the engine was strapped in and the co-pilot’s seat screwed in again. At the Base camp, strapping the engine to the floor was easy since there were enough helping hands to secure the aero engine. But the same task at Amar became a challenge since the pilot would have to unscrew the seat himself and would have had to remove his gloves, a dangerous thing to do in those extreme cold conditions. Moreover, flying with cockpit doors open — an extremely hazardous act at 20,000 feet plus altitude — was an additional worry since the cold gets accentuated at that height by the wind chill factor.”

Hazard
Despite the hazard, the most powerful of the available Cheetahs was readied. It was stripped to the bare minimum. “Out went the tail rotor guard, doors, passenger seats and the radio bay panels. The radio transmission set was removed and so was the battery after the engine was started; only two bottles of oxygen instead of the standard four that we normally carried. But that was not all. In order to save on weight, the helicopter carried fuel only sufficient to fly one way to Amar. It was planned that the refuelling for the return journey would be done at the post itself even when the rotors would be running and the spare engine would be offloaded,” Air Commodore Anil K Sinha, then a Squadron leader and deputy flight commander, recalls. Wing Commander Goli, the Commanding Officer and Sinha, decided to take minimum fuel for two helicopters that were to fly into Amar that morning.

Firing
As they prepared to fly to Amar, the weather closed in but Sinha and Goli went up to another helipad at Dolma, some three minutes flying time from Amar and waited. As soon as the clouds cleared, Sinha flew to Amar, delivered the tools, batteries and other essential equipment before Goli landed with the spare engine. Perhaps seeing hectic activity on the post, the Pakistanis started firing as Wing Co Goli landed with the spare engine. It was still off-loaded, refuelled even as the engine was still running.

Meanwhile at Amar, ground troops were preparing for the engine change. First they physically shifted the stranded helicopter to the very edge of the table top helipad so that the incoming helicopter with the spare engine could land and hold till the aero engine was off loaded. On 11 June, the ‘half-acclimatised’ technical crew removed the damaged engine from the stranded helicopter. Now all that they could do was to wait for the replacement engine to arrive.

The technical crew worked through the evening and night of 12 June, taking help from the Sikh LI troops to change the engine.

Now came the critical part: fly out the repaired helicopter.

Operation
It was Friday, the 13th.

Because of the myths associated with the date and day, the CO, late Wing Commander Goli was not sure if the operation should be carried out that day. But eventually all of them decided that no matter what happens, they will fly out the stranded chopper that day itself.
In fact, because it was a day of ‘Jumma,’ Pakistani troops were perhaps busy with their Friday prayers. Cleverly, the men on the post and the Air Force decided to fly out the helicopter around noon when they knew the adversary would be busy with the afternoon namaz. As Rao says: “Friday, the 13th did not prove to be unlucky for us at all!”

Squadron Leader (later Air Commodore) Sinha was designated to fly the stranded chopper back. He remembers: “Normally, when you are taking off, you have a space around the helicopter. Here there was no such luxury. The helicopter had had heavy landing after its seizure and we did not know how deep it was embedded in the soft snow. In my mind, there were many questions. Will the engine start? Will it last the flight? Will I be able to extract it and take it back to the base camp safely? As these questions swirled in my mind, I took a deep breath, started and revved the engine and took off. As we landed safely at base camp, there were impromptu celebrations!”

Gallant
Flt Lt WVR Rao and Flt Lt. B. Ramesh quickly followed up with a sortie and flew the technical crew back to the base camp.
Even today, 24 years later, the unparalleled feat plays out in the minds of those who accomplished it, as if it happened just yesterday!
Says Sinha, who went on to win a Vir Chakra for gallantry in the 1999 Kargil conflict: “That night we had a wild party at the base camps. We were doing back flips and somersaults. We were so happy and proud.” Concurs Rao, who left the Air Force in April 2012 and now flies helicopters for the Tatas in Jameshedpur: “We were almost delirious with joy. After all, how many Air Forces in the world can boast of such a deed? I remember after that long and most memorable party, my voice was so hoarse that I permanently gave up smoking!”

Selfless
The event of 13 June 1990 will also go down as one of the best example of jointmanship between the Indian Army and the Indian Air Force! Both Sinha and Rao say without the incredibly committed and selfless army soldiers on the Amar post, it would have been impossible to even think of changing the engine.

“On the first day, when the chopper sat down and we came to the base camp, the Sikh LI troops on the post, at their own initiative removed the rotors blades of the helicopter and built that snow wall to keep it out of sight of the enemy! All this without any training. But a more incredible feat was yet to come. On the day we were changing the engine, the portable crane that was airlifted to Amar for hauling the engine up (remember the helicopter engine is located above the passenger seats at a considerable height) broke into pieces because of extreme cold. These brave and extremely fit Sikh LI troops physically lifted the 182-kg engine at 23,000 feet to help us repair the helicopter,” Rao said with justifiable pride.

Rapport
Sinha added: “The rapport between us and the army soldiers on the glacier has to be seen to be believed. Without total trust in each other, we can never function as efficiently and effectively as we do all these years!”

Rao also recalls the simplicity of the soldiers. “Many a times, the troops used to say they had craving for aloo parathas. So on the days when we were coming from Leh, our wives, on a short visit to Leh, used to make them early morning and in our first flight we used to carry the aloo parathas for the troops on Amar and Sonam. The sheer joy on their faces on receiving the parathas was priceless!”

Almost every helicopter pilot who has operated on the glacier would have such a story or two to share. Some remember how eager the soldiers are to receive letters from home.

In fact a standard practice among the helicopter crew is to carry the mailbag in the very first sortie of the day since it is the lightest weight they can carry at the beginning of the day when the helicopter fuel tank is topped up full. The coordination, the camaraderie and the brotherhood of soldiers is on full display at Siachen, an emotion that civilians will never be able to fathom or understand!

The engine change and recovery of the helicopter from Amar Post is just one of the incredible feats achieved by the Siachen Pioneers, as the 114 Helicopter Unit is universally known. Established at Leh on 1 April, 1964 (this is the Golden Jubileee Year of the Unit), it has a unique distinction of being perhaps the only helicopter formation that has been deployed in an operation continuously for three decades!

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby arshyam » 19 Apr 2015 08:57

Some visuals of the Dhruv @Siachen, Op Baba temple, details about the facilities base camp, etc. If Vishnu-ji still lurks, please take a bow. A good report.

NDTV at Siachen: How India is Consolidating its Hold on World's Highest Battlefield - Vishnu Som, NDTV

An interview with the commander of Siachen base camp:
Defending the Siachen Heights - Vishnu Som, NDTV

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby arun » 18 Sep 2015 15:26

The Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Punjabi Dominated Military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s futile attempt to challenge and occupy Indian territory on the Siachen Glacier is resulting in their running a high casualty rate. The Islamic Republics attempt has in the period between 2003-10 resulted in 213 deaths and does not count the 140 Uniformed Jihadi’s who died in a fatal avalanche that hit a uniformed Jihadi camp in April 2012.

Despite a ceasefire that has seen no targeted firing since a 2003 agreement, the Pakistan Army has been losing an average of 30 soldiers a year on Siachen. The deaths are associated with the perils of deployment at high altitude - medical complications, avalanches, bad weather and more. With a total of 213 deaths recorded at Siachen between 2003-10, the glacier has been taking its toll. The average of 30 deaths a year does not include the 140 soldiers that Pakistan lost in a fatal avalanche that hit a military camp in April 2012.

On the other hand, Indian casualties on glacier have progressively decreased over the years and are currently in single digits. Official data released in parliament shows that Indian soldiers have died due to climatic conditions at an average of 10 a year. In recent years this number has almost come down to single digits, with 5 sold ..


Read more at:

Bleeding in Siachen: Pakistan losing 30 soldiers a year on highest battlefield

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Philip » 18 Sep 2015 18:38

In the last few months,there have been several media reports about Indo-Pak back channels esp. during the days of the Bandicoot,Gen. Mushy-the-rat.A deal on Siachen was supposedly worked out even during Gen.Zia's time,but after his assassination in the plane crash,the Pakis denied that such talks/deal ever took place.Some observers say that this is why he was assassinated.It is well-known that Gen Zia stopped taking orders from the US,was pursuing his own Islamic agenda of regional/extra-regional expansion,which conf;cited with the US's foreign policies.Had he worked out a peace deal with India,it would've given him the freedom to pursue his W.Asian/M-East agenda,secure in that he would find no threat from India in the east.

Siachen is a most expensive operation for both India and Pak.More casualties have been lost to the environment of the world's harshest battlefield than to rival fire.It may indeed be a most expensive and costly strain for Pak,more than for India,why pak ahs tried many-a-time to seek a deal,even allegedly allowing the Indian position (map) to prevail,but with a reduction/withdrawal of troops on both sides for a specified distance to create a DMZ.With the renewed Paki-Taliban attacks on Paki forces,let's see what the new Paki army chief thinks on the subject...peace with India!

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby chaitanya » 18 Sep 2015 18:42

OT, but whenever I read about Siachen, it reminds me of the wall in the game of thrones, where the IA is obviously the Night's watch defending westeros from the jihadi white walker hordes of the PA... haha.

Anyway, tremendous respect for these guys to do the impossible.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby ShauryaT » 18 Sep 2015 19:37

chaitanya wrote:OT, but whenever I read about Siachen, it reminds me of the wall in the game of thrones, where the IA is obviously the Night's watch defending westeros from the jihadi white walker hordes of the PA... haha.

Anyway, tremendous respect for these guys to do the impossible.
True but from a geographical stand point the real wall is not the Saltoro but the Karakoram and Indira Col is its watch tower at 22,000 ft. Open Google Earth and see it from the desolate Shaksgam valley. The wall of the game of thrones will look puny!

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby chaitanya » 18 Sep 2015 21:04

^ thats crazy, thanks for the tip!

It's really a shame how much land has been lost up there... Shaksgam is really beautiful.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 22 Oct 2015 10:26

Helipad in Siachen will help in troop mobilisation - Dinakar Peri, The Hindu
India has quietly constructed and operationalised an Mi-17 helipad on the Siachen glacier near Kumar post at a height of about 16,000 ft, considerably augmenting the airlift capabilities for troop support and casualty evacuation. This comes 31 years after the Army occupied the icy heights under Operation Meghdoot in 1984.

One officer termed the helipad a “force multiplier” on the glacier. In addition to added capacity, it also means that soldiers can have more fresh food during their long deployments. While the 2003 ceasefire between Indian and Pakistan is holding across the Actual Ground Position Line (AGPL), in case hostilities were to erupt, the helipad can be of great help in troop mobilisation and evacuation, another official told The Hindu .

Helicopters play a pivotal role in sustaining the troops deployed at the height of 20,000 ft on the Siachen glacier where temperatures plummet to minus 50 degrees in winter.

Currently only Cheetahs and their upgraded variant, Cheetals, can land on posts beyond Base Camp, but have limited capacity which further goes down due to high altitude. The indigenously built Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) and Mi-17 cannot land on small helipads and are limited to air dropping supplies. Mi-17 is a medium lift helicopter of Russian origin and is operated by the Air Force in large numbers.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby deejay » 22 Oct 2015 15:53

There is a helipad existing, east abeam Kumar (helipad known as FLB Kumar), at 4950 mtrs. I landed there way back in 2003 and I was like landing there at least 10 years after the first guys landed.

So is this a new one or the same one with improvements? It was always a tight landing outside of all OGE limits and one cannot shut down the engines at those altitudes.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 22 Oct 2015 17:46

Apparently, that reporter of The Hindu, Dinakar Peri, has recently visited Siachen. He has a blog on this trip.


Link for Part I
Link for Part II

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby member_29089 » 22 Oct 2015 17:58

SSridhar wrote:Apparently, that reporter of The Hindu, Dinakar Peri, has recently visited Siachen. He has a blog on this trip.


Link for Part I
Link for Part II


Same trek different reporter (RunDTV)

60km Siachen Trek

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby arshyam » 23 Oct 2015 09:29

Reg. the Dhruv cannot land, is it because of its size? What is the payload it can carry to the post when compared to the Cheetah and Cheetal? I know the Dhruv is designed for high altitude, but that article confused me by saying it cannot land there, but the Army can get fresh food supplies up now.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby JE Menon » 23 Oct 2015 10:18

Apparently this Dinakar Peri was trained at CLAWS... (the comment on the blog suggests).

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby deejay » 23 Oct 2015 11:26

SSridhar wrote:Apparently, that reporter of The Hindu, Dinakar Peri, has recently visited Siachen. He has a blog on this trip.


Link for Part I
Link for Part II


I am unable to confirm but here are my reasons for this Mi 17 helipad being the same as the one I landed:

> Camp Kumar is approximately half way point on Glacier.
> Around here Glacier is at 05 Kms AMSL average. Surrounding hills are even higher. A helipad at even this height does not give a lot of load carrying capability due to sharp reduction in performance
> Beyond this point even if there is space for helipad, benefits will be sharply reduced
> Glacier itself is moving hence large permanent structures on the Glacier is not possible
> FLB Kumar was located abeam Kumar but outside of the Glacier on a low spur which had clear approach (restricted) and take off.
> I do not remember of any other place in vicinity both south of Kumar and north of Kumar which could meaningfully be used.

Hence, I am almost sure it is the same place, may have been refurbished.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby uddu » 23 Oct 2015 18:13

Yes. Size of the helipad.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby arun » 25 Oct 2015 11:18

X Posted from the STFUP thread.

I see no justification whatsoever to grant visa’s to citizens of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to come to India and make propaganda on behalf of the Islamic Republic’s Deep State to have India vacate the Siachen Glacier of which the Islamic Republic holds not a square nanometre.

This Lahore-based Mass Group Foundation should be forthwith deported after being briefed that the Islamic Republic is nowhere “on Siachen Glacier”. Further our High Commission in the Islamic Republic should be reminded to exercise greater caution in granting visa’s to prevent Non-State Propagandist arm of the Islamic Republic’s Deep State doing propaganda in India.

The BJP which controls the Municipal Corporation of Gurgaon (MCG) should provide an explanation why they invited the Lahore-based Mass Group Foundation to conduct the play. Hindustan Times reports that the MCG “organised the event”.

Well done Shiv Sena for protesting and bringing this to light:

‘Shiv Sena’ men disrupt Pak play in Gurgaon, shout slogans on stage

Meanwhile India needs to maintain vigilance to trump sly attempts by the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to get India to unilaterally withdraw from the Siachen Glacier which is going to increase because of the high cost the Islamic Republic is facing in challenging India’s position on the Glacier. See my earlier post of Sept 18:

arun wrote:The Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Punjabi Dominated Military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s futile attempt to challenge and occupy Indian territory on the Siachen Glacier is resulting in their running a high casualty rate. The Islamic Republics attempt has in the period between 2003-10 resulted in 213 deaths and does not count the 140 Uniformed Jihadi’s who died in a fatal avalanche that hit a uniformed Jihadi camp in April 2012.

Despite a ceasefire that has seen no targeted firing since a 2003 agreement, the Pakistan Army has been losing an average of 30 soldiers a year on Siachen. The deaths are associated with the perils of deployment at high altitude - medical complications, avalanches, bad weather and more. With a total of 213 deaths recorded at Siachen between 2003-10, the glacier has been taking its toll. The average of 30 deaths a year does not include the 140 soldiers that Pakistan lost in a fatal avalanche that hit a military camp in April 2012.

On the other hand, Indian casualties on glacier have progressively decreased over the years and are currently in single digits. Official data released in parliament shows that Indian soldiers have died due to climatic conditions at an average of 10 a year. In recent years this number has almost come down to single digits, with 5 sold ..


Read more at:

Bleeding in Siachen: Pakistan losing 30 soldiers a year on highest battlefield

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby ShauryaT » 26 Oct 2015 23:54

Posting here for the record.

He is right in claiming that the two sides came close to resolving the Siachen and Sir Creek issues. On Siachen, the Pakistani side, in effect, accepted the Indian demand on defining the Actual Ground Position Line (AGPL), by agreeing to a schedule that would plot withdrawals from existing points of deployment to new agreed positions, thereby creating a well-defined zone of disengagement. There would have been provisions for monitoring including joint patrolling. The principles underlying this agreement were worked out in Murree between the Pakistan Foreign Secretary and I, while the two foreign ministers meeting in another room. Shivshankar Menon, then Indian high commissioner to Pakistan, was present. The agreement was considered at a Cabinet meeting later but was set aside because of unexpected second thoughts among some members. Sir Creek, too, was ripe for settlement and was easier to deliver on. Once the Siachen deal fell through, however, there was little enthusiasm for it on the Pakistani side.

Pakistan's foreign policy: A partial view -- Shyam Saran

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby sum » 28 Oct 2015 04:45

^^ Are our babus for real?
Joint mechanism even after all the relentless thappads by TSP?

I think this comment sums it up:
SHYAM AHUJA
India was saved by Gods. Otherwise Mr Shyam Saran was heading for disaster. JOINT MECHANISM---Really!! What he means is "Let's hand over Kashmir on a platter to Pakistan"

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby chetak » 28 Oct 2015 07:10

sum wrote:^^ Are our babus for real?
Joint mechanism even after all the relentless thappads by TSP?

I think this comment sums it up:
SHYAM AHUJA
India was saved by Gods. Otherwise Mr Shyam Saran was heading for disaster. JOINT MECHANISM---Really!! What he means is "Let's hand over Kashmir on a platter to Pakistan"


MMS was talking rubbish that has gone uncontested so far. He could neither change borders nor make them "irrelevant" as he claims because the pakis always wanted unrestricted access to the Indian side, by hook or by crook.

It matters little to them how they get it. Once in, they will unfold their plan that has been in place from the times of the partition --swarm in, swamp the geography including jammu and ladakh and over run fully the Indian border state and then claim that the cashmeris have themselves "revolted" against the Indian state and now that a fait accompli has occurred, India will have to vacate cashmere.

Who ever said that MMS had such a mandate "to make the borders irrelevant" ??
He dose not now and nor did he ever have such a bogus self declared mandate.
This is the poisonously sly MMS of old, deceit with a poker face. No one born in pakiland should ever be involved in the negotiations. make the borders permanent and seal them. if some families are "upset", so be it. The greater good cannot be overlooked for the alleged tyranny of the few.
access to the Indian side to play their mischief unhindered

Irreversible demographic changes have already taken place in the POK. They cannot be undone. We cannot ever benefit by such a traitorously stupid "joint mechanism" charade designed to placate and fool the Indian masses by use of politically benign and deceptive language while actually concealing the evil thrust of the paki intent.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 04 Feb 2016 06:27

Avalanche buries 10 soldiers in Siachen - Dinakar Peri, The Hindu
Ten soldiers have been buried under snow after their camp in the northern part of the Siachen glacier was hit by a major avalanche on Wednesday.

According to preliminary information, the avalanche struck the camp located in the northern Siachen Glacier, at a height of 19,600 feet, in the early hours of Wednesday. “The post was manned by a Junior Commissioned Officer and nine soldiers,” a senior Army officer said.

Rescue operations by specialised teams of the Army and the Air Force are under way, and are being coordinated from Leh and Udhampur.

The incident highlights the extreme risks that soldiers face in manning the inhospitable terrain at heights of 21,000 feet under extreme weather conditions on the world’s highest battlefield.

Let's pray for the success of the rescue efforts.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby wig » 04 Feb 2016 09:10

continuing the news of 10 missing in Siachen avalanche- Helipad wiped out; rescue ops on as hope fades for Madras Regiment men

‘Wall of ice’ struck post at height of 19,600 ft
•JCO, nine soldiers were in a stone bunker in northern-most part of Siachen when a ‘wall of ice’ hit the post
•Helipad that allows helicopters to land for supplies wiped out
•Avalanches at such heights severe as they involve sliding ice blocks, not snow


http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation ... 91758.html
At least 10 soldiers of the Indian Army are missing following a major avalanche on the Siachen Glacier early this morning.
Rescue teams of the Army and the Indian Air Force were sent to the inaccessible spot with specialised equipment as hopes of finding survivors diminished. The rescuers face lack of oxygen and freezing temperatures, which can drop to minus 40°C at night.
The avalanche occurred at an altitude of 19,600 ft when a “wall of ice” buried the post — a stone bunker. A Junior Commissioned Officer (JCO) and nine soldiers were at the post at the time of the incident, said Northern Army Command spokesperson Colonel SD Goswami.
A nearby helipad, that allows IAF and Army helicopters to land for supplies, was also wiped out. The avalanche occurred in the northern-most part of the 70 sq-km glacier that forms the India, Pakistan and China trijunction.Rescue operations were launched during the day but were called off at about
4 pm as temperatures dipped. “It was risky for the rescue teams. The operations will resume tomorrow,” a senior official said. Northern Army Commander Lt Gen DS Hooda is supervising the operations.
The Madras Regiment is stationed in the area. Avalanches at such altitudes can be severe. Siachen doesn’t have loose snow and an avalanche involves ice blocks moving down from the heights.
The average altitude in the area is 20,000 ft and even day temperatures are minus 20° Celsius. Indian troops had occupied the glacier in 1984 after fears that Pakistan was trying to take over the area. A 109-km divide between India and Pakistan is called the actual ground position line.
Last month, four soldiers of 3 Ladakh Scouts were killed when their patrol team was hit by an avalanche.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby arshyam » 04 Feb 2016 19:45

x-post

Soldiers trapped in Siachen presumed dead - Dinakar Peri, The Hindu, Updated: February 4, 2016 19:23 IST

The Army and Air Force have intensified rescue efforts to locate the ten missing soldiers on the Siachen glacier who are buried under snow. However officials said the soldiers are presumed dead given the extreme conditions.

“Rescue teams are braving adverse weather and effects of rarified atmosphere to locate and rescue survivors. However, it is with deepest of regrets that we have to state that chances of finding any survivors are now very remote,” an Army spokesperson said on Thursday.

Another senior official said that given the time, temperature and conditions chances of survival are unlikely and they were hoping for a miracle.

Early in the day a very large rescue team has been deployed today to reach down till the post, the officer said. As per inputs received complete blocks of snow and ice had fallen on the post burying it very deep and clearing it was a very difficult task.

To tackle the snow the officer said, “Heavy Snow cutters and major equipment had been put into use to clear and cut the ice blocks hence time delay is happening.”

Rescue teams are working at extremely low temperatures hovering between -25 to 45 degrees putting their lives at risk.

In the early hours of the morning on Wednesday a major avalanche struck an Indian Army post in Northern Siachen Glacier located at a height of 19600 feet. One Junior Commissioned Officer and nine soldiers manning the post were buried in it.

As of now rescue operations are still on. Further progress will be intimated when available, the officer added.

Indian Army has been controlling the dominant heights of Siachen glacier, the world’s highest battlefield, since occupying it in 1984 under Operation Meghdoot.

Pakistan offers help

Pakistan which, occupies lower altitudes on the glacier, has offered help in rescuing the missing soldiers.

The Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) of Pakistan had tweeted: “Pakistan Director General of Military Operations (DGMO) called his Indian counterpart today and offered help for rescue of Indian soldiers who came under snow Avalanche in Northern Areas.”

However Indian Army while appreciating the Pakistani offer of help declined it as “adequate resources and personnel have already been pressed into service.”


Per this article on the New Indian Express, the 19 Madras had taken over from 25 Rajput only a fortnight ago.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Gagan » 05 Feb 2016 07:49

I hear 3 soldiers rescued ...

MN Kumar
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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby MN Kumar » 05 Feb 2016 08:06

Gagan wrote:I hear 3 soldiers rescued ...


PM confirms Siachen deaths, salutes soldiers

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Gagan » 05 Feb 2016 08:32

:( :(


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