Siachen News & Discussion

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Postby Vivek_A » 30 Dec 2006 05:11

‘Today Siachen is weeping, tomorrow the world will cry’

By Khalid Mustafa

ISLAMABAD: The lifelines of both Pakistan and India — Siachen and Gangotri glaciers — are rapidly retreating and melting endangering the lives of people of the two countries because of the ongoing military activity at the highest flashpoint of the world, revealed a study conducted by Arshad H Abbasi, a consultant for the World Wide Fund for Nature (WWF).

Gangotri is the second largest glacier in the world from where the Ganges originates which is not only sacred for Hindus but also caters to the irrigational needs of India.

Siachen is the longest glacier in the non-polar regions from where the Nubara river originates and is a source of the Indus river in Pakistan. The Indus river is the lifeline of Pakistan as it caters to 75 per cent of its irrigational requirements.

“Siachen is weeping, tomorrow the world will cry,â€

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Postby JCage » 30 Dec 2006 05:22

:rotfl:

Pakis and their tactics. Now its the "environment" they are worried about.

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Postby Prem » 30 Dec 2006 06:05

Human activities are on Indian side only.
Baki side has only animal activites .

Seriously , Baki are desperate for Sianchen. Shumthing is not right, PRC and India are also taking surevey of glaciers in Tibbet.
Bakis are sensing the Indians r gonna dry up their water holes if they keep indulging in terrrorism. PRC need gas line going through POK .
Something is cooking and Dragon is pulling some strings. Kashmir problem might l be solved through water problem / sharing.

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Fighting bullets: Bamboo jackets for jawans

Postby Nayak » 30 Dec 2006 14:06

Fighting bullets: Bamboo jackets for jawans

Fighting bullets: Bamboo jackets for jawansSandeep Phukan

Watch story Fighting bullets: Bamboo jackets for jawans

Saturday, December 30, 2006 (New Delhi):

For a jawan posted in areas like Jammu and Kashmir or the northeast a bullet proof jacket is a lifesaver.

Despite this not too many are willing to wear it since these jackets are far too heavy.

The conventional jacket is made of steel and fibre-glass not only weighs over 10 kgs but also restricts mobility especially during sudden encounters.

Now, the National Bamboo Mission under the Science and Tech ministry is trying out bullet proof jackets made of bamboo.

These jackets not only weigh just five kilos but are also much cheaper.

Where a conventional bullet proof jacket costs at least Rs 1.5 lakh a bamboo one will cost not more than Rs 50,000.

With preliminary trials showing encouraging results these jackets will now be tested against AK 47s and Insas. Scientists working on the project are confident.

More tensile

They say bamboo is more tensile so it can absorb the impact of a bullet much better.

"We have fixed a date of April to test the jackets at a MHow and TBRL, Chandigarh," said Col (retd) A Malhotra, Technology Advisor, NBM.

It's not just bullet proof jackets, the National Bamboo Mission has also developed specially-designed igloos for the troops in high altitude frontiers like Siachen.

Ten of these fire-resistant igloos have already been sent to Siachen, Tawang and the Nathu-La for trials.

"We are only trying to generate more uses," said Vinay Oberoi, Director National Bamboo Mission.

India is the second largest producer of bamboo in the world producing 135 million metric tonnes of bamboo every year.

But its use has been restricted mainly to manufacturing paper and artefacts. But now clearly new ideas are being tried out.

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Postby Kakkaji » 13 Jan 2007 07:02

Clean-up hope for Siachen

Islamabad, Jan. 12: The stalemated India-Pakistan peace process may be on the verge of a breakthrough when external affairs minister Pranab Mukherjee arrives in Islamabad tomorrow, with India likely to propose that both countries begin the process of cleaning up the Siachen glacier.

The series of discussions tomorrow will also include talks on a visit by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to Pakistan. Islamabad wants the Prime Minister to visit before the Saarc summit. But some feel that Singh could even come after the summit — but before elections are held in Pakistan in August -- so as to give Musharraf the Indian advantage.

It is believed that Mukherjee’s proposal could revolve around the cleaning up of the Siachen glacier, whose heights have been held by Indian troops since 1984, thereby turning it into a “mountain of peace’’.

This phrase was used by Singh when he visited the Siachen base camp last year.

The government will be able to “sell’’ such a proposal to the Opposition, sources said, by pointing out that Pakistan has agreed to authenticate the ground positions of Indian troops on the Saltoro ridge on maps.

Moreover, Islamabad has told New Delhi that consequent to redeployment to their respective base camps, both sides could institute some sort of a joint monitoring mechanism to allay fears of any Pakistani incursion into Indian territory, such as in Kargil.


Mukherjee could propose to the Pakistani side that even as both sides discuss and debate a schedule of disengagement of their troops from the Siachen heights — Indian troops have the advantage as they stand on top of the Saltoro ridge — they could begin removing the hundreds of tonnes of toxic waste that has accumulated on Siachen since their cold war began here in 1984.

Jointly cleaning the mountain of toxic waste — which flows into the Nubra valley and downstream into the Indus river — by mountaineers and soldiers would be the biggest confidence-building measure of its time.

Such an initiative would be instrumental in building trust that could lead to an agreement on the redeployment of soldiers from Siachen.

In turn, that could be the key that cracks open the “Kashmir dispute’’ that has bedevilled the bilateral relationship since 1984.

Sources pointed out that an agreement on Siachen — which both countries nearly reached in 1989, and again in 1992 — could be one highlight of the Prime Minister’s visit to Pakistan, whenever it takes place.

India has argued that unless Pakistan publicly agrees to authenticate ground positions of Indian soldiers on maps, it cannot agree to any agreement on Siachen. The army has repeatedly said that in case of any Pakistani incursion into the Kashmir area, as in Kargil, it will not be able to retake the heights once it has withdrawn from them.

However, over the last six months, India and Pakistan have debated the Siachen issue in considerable detail: once, on the eve of the defence secretary-level talks in August 2006 in Delhi, and then during the foreign secretary-level dialogue (between Shiv Shankar Menon and Riaz Mohammed Khan) in November.

But sources in the Pakistani establishment also insist that any agreement on Siachen cannot mean that India “claims’’ the territory from which it has withdrawn.

Turning Siachen into a peace mountain would, naturally, preclude such a claim. Moreover, the Americans, who got Nawaz Sharif in 1999 to order his army back from the Indian side of the Line of Control at Kargil, could also monitor any such extra-territorial movement :roll:.

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Postby Kakkaji » 13 Jan 2007 07:15

Stirrings of a thaw in Siachen silence

[quote]New Delhi, Jan. 12: The army today defied precedent by maintaining an eloquent silence on the Siachen glacier and raised hopes that foreign minister Pranab Mukherjee will strike a positive note in resolving the dispute during his current visit to Pakistan.

Army chief General Joginder Jaswant Singh was asked at his news conference — an annual event in the run-up to Army Day (January 15) — for his views on Siachen. He said: “Our external affairs minister is on his way to Pakistan. Please await the outcome of his talks with leaders there.â€

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Postby Kakkaji » 11 Feb 2007 06:48

Pak sets terms on Siachen

Wants deal without commitment

Pushing for an early pullout by Indian troops from Siachen, Pakistan has conveyed its willingness to informally recognise the authenticated troop positions of India on the glacier. India, however, wants Pakistan to ink a formal agreement in this regard.

That Islamabad is eager to see a pullout by Indian troops from Siachen was made evident on Friday when the Pakistani newspaper, The Nation, quoting senior diplomatic sources, in a front page report said, "Pakistan and India are on the verge of a breakthrough on Siachen issue as the former has given assurance to the latter against any attempt to occupy the world's highest battlefield in case of its demilitarisation".

According to the paper, "This assurance has been conveyed to India through diplomatic channels to give way to a breakthrough on the vital issue." The Pakistani "assurance" appears to have followed its offer to informally recognise Indian troop positions. India has been insisting on formal authentication of troop positions, but Pakistan refuses to do so.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has repeatedly expressed his desire to solve the 24-year-old issue as a major confidence-building measure and turn the glacier into "a mountain of peace." But before any troop pullout takes place, the UPA Government wants Pakistan to formally recognise India's troop positions and authenticate them on the proposed main document.

As per convention, two countries sign a main document of agreement to resolve contentious issues. Pakistan does not want to commit itself to formally acknowledging the positions held by Indian troops by incorporating the details in the main document.

Instead, Pakistan wants the details to be mentioned in an annexure to the document. Annexures are not endorsed officially. This will always give Pakistan the leeway to go back on its "assurance", sources said here on Saturday.


Islamabad has conveyed its intentions to New Delhi in what it calls a "complete package" for Siachen. To push its case, Islamabad recently proposed a meeting of the Directors-General of Military Operations of both countries.

Reacting to Friday's report in The Nation, Union Defence Minister AK Antony said here on Saturday a solution to the Siachen glacier issue will require "action on the ground by Pakistan" and made it clear that "verbal assurances" are not enough.

"Statements are not enough, action is needed on the ground," the Minister said when asked about The Nation's report. He said relations with Pakistan are on the upswing, adding it was a conscious effort on the part of New Delhi to boost ties with two of its close neighbours - Islamabad and Beijing.

The armies of the two countries are operationally deployed on the Siachen glacier since 1984 and 10 rounds of discussions at the Defence Secretary and political levels have been held since 1987. The glacier is the world's highest battlefield and is divided by a 110-km-long Actual Ground Position Line(AGPL).

The glacier favours Pakistan geographically as the gradient on its side is gentler and gradual, thereby making it easy for its Army to maintain its logistical lines through road heads that are nearer to the heights.

However, India has to maintain its logistical lines exclusively through air though the Indian Army dominates all the crucial heights and passes. The glacier has been peaceful for the last three years since the mutually agreed ceasefire came into force in 2003 at the 750-km-long Line of Control (LoC) and the AGPL.

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Postby prao » 13 Feb 2007 23:13

Siachen Cleanup

Don't let anyone tell you that the Indian Army doesn't have a sense of humor. The operation to clean up Siachen is called "Clean Siachen, Green Siachen" :lol: This according to The TOI.

More likely methinks that some clueless bureaucrat in Nai Dilli who's never been to Siachen came up with the name. Maybe they'll ship some flowerpots with roses and Jasmine to Siachen. :wink:

Unfortunately, if the melting of the glaciers continues apace, the soldiers may actually see green in a few years.

P

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Postby Vipul » 29 Mar 2007 04:59

Siachen hero battles poverty.

Chandigarh, March 28: He led his men up a treacherous route to capture Pakistan’s Qaid-e-Azam post in Siachen in 1987, inspiring them with his indomitable courage.

Two decades on, Captain Bana Singh is still fighting, for survival.

The only living Param Vir Chakra awardee, Singh receives a paltry Rs 1,500 from the Centre as allowance :x and Rs 160 from the Jammu and Kashmir government :x.

“I have only about an acre of land which I till with my bare hands. I have nothing else to fall back on,â€

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Postby Kakkaji » 29 Mar 2007 06:17

Can a private fund be started dedicated to the welfare of heroes and martyrs among security forces and their families?

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Postby mandrake » 29 Mar 2007 06:20

Kakkaji wrote:Can a private fund be started dedicated to the welfare of heroes and martyrs among security forces and their families?


Great Idea, Though I'm just a kid to donate sums; but contribution on ground is where i wont leave any stoens unturned if asked for! :)

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Postby Gaurav_S » 11 Apr 2007 13:38

IAF chopper crashes in Siachen

NEW DELHI: A Cheetah helicopter of the Indian Air Force crashed in the main Siachen glacier Wednesday morning and two pilots were reported missing.

The chopper took off from the base camp situated at an altitude of 16,400 feet in and crashed at around 7 am in the central Siachen glacier, according to IAF sources.

The Army and IAF have launched a search operation to locate the missing pilots, they said. The cause of the crash is not known yet.


From TOI

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Postby Arun_S » 12 Apr 2007 08:36

Cross positing from Mil discussion
Arun_S wrote:
Rahul Shukla wrote:
krishnan wrote:Flash news IAF chopper crashes in Siachen; two pilots reportedly missing

Here is a link from Rediff: IAF chopper crashes in Siachen (Rediff)
A Cheetah helicopter of the Indian Air Force crashed in the main Siachen glacier on Wednesday morning. The pilots of the chopper are reported missing.

The chopper took off from the base camp situated at an altitude of 16,400 feet in and crashed at around 0700 hours in the central Siachen glacier, according to IAF sources in New Delhi.The Army and IAF have launched a search operation to locate the missing pilots, they said. The cause of the crash is not known yet.

I am very sad today to hear this news.

Before this crash my brother was captain of the Cheetha (was then Commanding Officer of 114 HU) that last crashed at Siachen (~April 2004). Fortunately he and his co-pilot (Now Wg Cdr Menon is in the Sarang aerobatic team) survived, while the copter was totally destroyed. For that crash in the glacier the court of inquiry confirmed the cause due to sever wind downdraft (invisible) downwind of the highest helipad in world (opposite the Pakistani front).

I hope and pray for the survival of the pilot how ever slim their chances are with each passing hour since they raised Mayday and the crash site located. I doooooo hope they survive this one. "GOD ! Please Help and Save Them"

No. 114 Helicopter Unit 'Siachen Pioneers'
Motto: "Apatsu Mitram - A Friend in Distress"
Their motivation:
[url=http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Special/Leh/Leh08.jpg]Image
[/url]
"We do the difficult as a Routine,
The Impossible may take a little longer"

[url=http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Special/Leh/index.html]114 HU PHOTO FEATURE, WHERE EAGLES DARE
[/url] Image
Click on the link above to see a Special gallery of photographs related to 114 HU, Leh.


sunilUpa wrote:Arun Ji,

New Delhi, April 11:Two IAF pilots were killed when their Cheetah helicopter crashed today on the Siachen Glacier close to the Actual Ground Position Line (AGPL) between India and Pakistan.

The pilots, identified as Squadron Leader S. Basu and Flight Lieutenant A. Sharma, had taken off from the Siachen base camp for a "routine flying mission", when the chopper crashed near the Amar Post in the Central Siachen Glacier, a Defence Ministry spokesperson said here.


Link

My deepest condolences to their families and loved ones. RIP Brothers. :(


joey wrote::( :( May you born again in India and protect us again and again.

We wont forget you all for your dedication towards OUR MOTHERLAND.

RIP.


shyamd wrote:God bless their souls! Thank you for protecting our nation.

RIP


Vivek K wrote:RIP brave soldiers of India! We thank you for your service and sacrifice.


Arun_S wrote:
Arun_S wrote:My heartful thanks to the departed souls of Squadron Leader S. Basu and Flight Lieutenant A. Sharma, their dediciation and service to India. Indian borders are safe only because of people like you.

We shall not forget your balidaan. And ask God to bless you with His kind Grace, and lessen the grief to the families left behind.

India is thankful to you all.

No one will talk because COI is in progress.

Only that the Cheetha piloted by Squadron Leader S. Basu and Flight Lieutenant A. Sharma (I think Amit Sharma) was on approach to "Sierra" post (second highest helipad in the world) when this mishap occurred. It is speculated that they were approaching in tailwind (very difficult) overshot and entered the tutbulant downdraft typical on high mountain peak, losing lifting power and got very close to LAC against Pakistani position. Crashed nose down into the snow/ice.

Only the strong & brave head into difficult mission, and the pilots and crew of 114HU do it all the time & every day.

My 3 cheers to the brave heart dare devils who fly and support the army at mountaintops of Siachen Glacier.

Har Har Mahadev.




sunilUpa wrote:
NEW DELHI: India and Pakistan may still be embroiled in the long-festering Siachen dispute but that did not stop Pakistani troops from aiding Indian soldiers in recovering the bodies of the two IAF pilots who were killed after their Cheetah helicopter crashed in the glacial heights on Wednesday morning.

The pilots, Squadron Leader S Basu and Flight Lieutenant Amit Sharma, had taken off from the Siachen base camp, which is at a height of 12,000 feet, for a "routine air maintenance sortie" at 6.30 am. "But radio contact with them was lost when they were trying to land at the forward Amar post helipad, at around 16,000 feet, on the northern glacier," said an official.

The helicopter apparently crashed across the Pakistani-controlled territory in the Actual Ground Position Line. The AGPL marks the relative positions of the Indian and Pakistani troops on the glacial heights. "It fell into a 1,000-feet deep crevasse, " said an official.

Though Army soldiers launched a rescue operation promptly, it was hampered by the heavy snowfall in the area. Finally, after taking the help of Pakistani authorities in "aerial and ground-based rescue operations", the bodies were found towards the late afternoon.


It then took a herculean effort on the part of the Indian Army soldiers to bring the bodies back to the Amar post helipad for evacuation by another helicopter. Army chief General J J Singh, in fact, expressed his "deep appreciation" for the efforts put in by his soldiers to retrieve the bodies in such forbidding terrain and height.

Helicopter crashes, of course, are nothing new. They have lost almost 50 helicopters, ranging from the ageing Russian 'Mi-8s' and British 'Sea Kings' to the French-origin 'Cheetahs' and 'Chetaks', over last six-seven years. The helicopter fleets in the armed forces are clearly ageing.

The Cheetah light-utility helicopters, based on the design of French "Alouettes" and 'Lama SA-315' choppers, for instance, were inducted in the 1970s. Around 250 of them were subsequently manufactured under licence by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd till the 1980s.

The Cheetahs continue to be used to service forward locations, including outposts in Ladakh and Kashmir Himalayas, and for "patrol and reconnaissance missions" along the contentious LoC.


Link

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Postby Nayak » 13 Apr 2007 21:02

23 years since we made Siachen ours.

April 13th April 1984 IA took the decision to defend Siachen against Pakistan Army's evil designs to change the borders.

Let us all remember the sacrifices made by the Jawans defending our motherland from the hijras across the border.

Even after 23 years and countless casualties, it still is a symbol of what strong political will and swift military action can achieve.

RIP our brave jawans.

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Postby vinayak_d » 16 Apr 2007 18:07

Sorry if posted before..

http://www.india-newsbehindnews.com/myc ... 11887.html

Braving the heights
By: Claude Arpi
The Pioneer

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007

While India's political leaders are busy negotiating a 'deal' to demilitarise Siachen, its people are showing utmost respect to one of the bravest soldiers who rescued the glacier from Pakistani hands. Recently, I attended a function at the district headquarters of Villipuram in Tamil Nadu to felicitate Captain Bana Singh, one of the three living recipients of the Param Vir Chakra. Captain Singh had captured the 'Quaid' (Jinnah) post dominating the Saltoro range in Siachen on June 26, 1987. If this peak had remained with Pakistan, a very large chunk of Indian territory would have today been under Islamabad's control.
What touched me was the spontaneity of hundreds of school children in Villipuram expressing their gratitude to a hero of our time. The next day, children of Puducherry showed similar sentiments and gave a tumultuous reception to Bana Singh.
The problem in India is that such lofty feelings do not rule the hearts of politicians who, in order to leave their names to posterity, are ready to give away what has been so painfully achieved. Ultimately, they may not even leave their names in history books.
A few decades back, in July 1949, a cease-fire line (CFL) was accepted by India and Pakistan. The CFL stopped in Ladakh at a point code-named NJ9842. The agreement mentioned that the line continued "thence north to the glaciers".
It was demarcated on a clear principle: If a territory was no-man's land and not occupied by any of the two armies, it was deemed a part of India. This was implicitly accepted by the UN Commission for India and Pakistan in the August 1948 UN Resolutions which acknowledged that the State of Jammu & Kashmir had legally acceded to India through the Instrument of Accession signed by Maharaja Hari Singh.
To India's surprise, in 1984, Pakistan began sponsoring mountaineering expeditions in Siachen and showing the glacier as its territory. The situation worsened in early 1987 when Pakistan established a post on a feature overlooking the Indian defence positions located near the Bilafond Pass on the Saltoro ridge. The post was so prestigious for Islamabad that it was named after Jinnah as the 'Quaid Post'. When Pakistan started sniping at Indian helicopters, some of the Indian posts maintained by air suddenly became untenable.
In April, New Delhi decided that the Quaid Post had to be retaken. The Army prepared to deploy 8 Jammu & Kashmir Light Infantry (8 JAK-LI) on Saltoro. For Subedar Bana Singh, a native of Kadyal in Jammu, who belonged to this regiment, the glacier was his first experience at such a high altitude; though he had just been trained at the High Altitude Warfare School in Gulmarg, the Saltoro range was altogether another experience: In summer the temperatures come down to minus 35 degrees Celsius while in winter it could get minus 70.
On May 29, 1987, a patrol of 8 JAK-LI was sent for the reconnaissance of possible approaches to Quaid post. Till that day, nobody knew how to reach the post. The patrol leader, Second Lieutenant Rajiv Pande and his men nearly made it to the post. Unfortunately, 30 metres to the post, they were sighted by Pakistani commandos who opened heavy fire.
While Rajiv Pande and five of his men were killed, three survived to return and report about the approach. The patrol had also managed to lay a rope till the top. Cold fury caught the hearts of Indian jawans; the loss of Pande's life should not be in vain. A month later, on June 23, a task force under Major Varinder Singh launched a new assault: The objective was to dislodge intruders. It was code-named Operation Rajiv in honour of Pande.
Due to bad weather, the jawans were not able to locate the rope; they had no other alternative but to postpone the assault. The next day, having finally found the rope, another team led by Subedar Harnam Singh climbed the ice wall and established a base. They also found the bodies of their fellow soldiers. But once again, they were detected and fired upon. They had to return to the base.
The same night, another attack was repulsed by Pakistan; most Indian weapons had jammed in the biting cold. Bana Singh was one of the 62 selected for the attack by the commanding officer. Though they had the choice to opt out of the suicidal operation, all of them chose to do their duty.
That night some anguish entered Bana Singh's heart; he was depressed. He prayed to the gurus and for the first (and only time) in his life, he clearly heard Guru Gobind Singh's voice: "I wanted to test you, Bana." All fear evaporated, he was ready for the daytime frontal attack.
At noon on June 26, 1987, the Subedar launched a most audacious assault. Due to falling snow, it was so dark that there was no difference between night and day, remembers Subedar Singh. He managed to lob a grenade into the Pakistani makeshift bunker and closed the door. As some of the elite troops of the Pakistani Shaheen Company of 3 Commando Battalion of the Special Services Group (SSG) were outside, Bana Singh had to fight a hand-to-hand battle; finally, the three or four remaining intruders were bayoneted. When I asked him if he felt tired or could stand the cold, he retorted, laughing: "In those moments, when it is 'my life or his life', you don't think and there is no question of tiredness or cold".
After silence had fallen on the post, his first thought was for the gurus. He offered his deepest gratitude. Thanks to Bana Singh's exploit, India is today in control of the Saltoro range and the Siachen glacier. Bana Singh was later awarded the Param Vir Chakra and the post was renamed "Bana Post".
But even as Bana Singh is felicitated by children all over India, he has been forgotten by his own State who gives him a meagre allowance of Rs 160 per month for his heroic exploit. Srinagar does not care for him.
Captain Bana Singh refused to comment on the political developments in Delhi and Islamabad and the 'impending' deal with Pakistan, but one can feel that like many in the Army, he would find it terribly unfair if Gen Musharraf's plan to demilitarise Siachen is accepted by New Delhi.
Finally, the irony: Who was commanding the SSG when Bana Singh captured the Quaid Post in June 1987? A certain Brigadier Musharraf! He and his Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto were so upset by the loss of the Jinnah Post that they launched a frontal attack on the Saltoro range in September 1987: It is said that they lost 1,000 elite troops in the misadventure.
Many believe that the Kargil episode was a way for Gen Musharraf, then Chief of Army Staff, to avenge the insult of June 1987. Again, the General lost face. What he was not able to grab by force, he would like to get by ruse today, the glacier having a much easier access from the Pakistani side. It would then be possible for the General to recapture what he lost in 1987.
One can only hope that the leaders in New Delhi will not fall into the trap. It would be a new stab in the back of Bana Singh and all those who perished to defend India's territory.

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Postby Vipul » 19 Jun 2007 21:35

Siachen nears Zero Casualty Syndrome in two decades.

Jammu, June 19: The Indian Army can now stake its claim to be capable of guarding the highest and coldest battle field, Siachen glacier, with "ease" with only three casualties being reported in the region, a senior official said.

"With better mountain-warfare training and management, medicare facilities and best living standards, the battlefield casualties are virtually nil. We are nearing the Zero Casualty Syndrome in the glacier region," General Officer commanding in chief (GoC-in-C), Northern Command, Lt Gen H S Panag has said.

This year there were only three casualties, including that of two pilots, who died in a chopper crash, he said adding one jawan was killed in an accidental fire.

It is after two decades of occupation that the Army is nearing a Zero Casualty Syndrome on the Siachen glacier, with no casualty being recorded due to cold.

With the availability of state of art medicare facilities, best battle field robes and equipment, high living conditions and Indo-Pak border truce since November 2003, the Siachen casualties have declined.

"Now Indian Army is considered to have expertise in mountain warfare, because of its successful stint in Siachen glacier, which is a live battlefield where troops have to fight for their survival," Gen Panag said.

Gen Panag claimed that Army is now capable of guarding the Siachen glacier, the strategically important point to India, with ease.

As per statistics, till November 2003, Siachen have had over 2020 casualties, largely due to cold conditions and inhospitable terrains.

It would be a disgrace if the Italian Puppet and the shameless, corrupt, scycophant brigade that he represents would now give up Siachen for personal glory.

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Joint military exercises with friendly nations helpful: JJ S

Postby Nayak » 16 Sep 2007 08:49

Joint military exercises with friendly nations helpful: JJ Singh

Belgaum, Sept 15: Joint military exercises with other friendly countries will help the army in "gaining experience besides exchange of views and ideas," Chief of Army Staff General JJ Singh said.

"By virtue of these exercises other countries have known our potentials and strengths. These kinds of exercises will not weaken us," he said dismissing suggestions that the country's secrets will be leaked by such exercises.

He was speaking to reporters on the sidelines of a function organised for laying foundation for a housing scheme for armed personnel here. Singh, who is handing over the baton to his successor on September 30, said infiltration is continuing from neighbouring countries in Kashmir, northeast and the army is always on the alert.

He reiterated that there was no question of withdrawal of troops from J&K, adding "withdrawal of troops can be thought about only when there is total peace and tranquility in the region." On Siachen, Singh said "since Siachen is a part of India, I have decided to allow adventure tourism so that people enjoy the natural beauty there and also tell the whole world."

To a query on his achievements during his tenure as Chief of Army Staff, the General said he was "satisfied and happy that the image of the army has risen and is respected by the world." The army has done well in guarding the country's borders where there is peace and tranquility, he said.

During his tenure, Singh said, the army had taken up modernization in a big way especially in night-fighting capability. This is in addition to improving the army's fighting weapon system, motivating the soldier besides a host of welfare activities. He cited the examples of government adding a free-rail warrant for soldiers to come home from field areas and better rations for the army from next financial year.

Singh said he was hopeful of getting a "fair and just award" from the Pay Commission. "The man behind the machine is always important," he said. He later addressed the jawans at a Sainik Sammelan, followed by a solemn ceremony in which he handed the charge of Colonel of the regiment to Major General Narendra Singh.

Bureau Report

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‘Siachen to be tourist spot’

Postby Nayak » 16 Sep 2007 08:51

‘Siachen to be tourist spot’

ENS

BELGAUM: Siachen, the world’s highest battlefield and an inhospitable terrain, will soon be converted into a tourist spot and will be thrown open to the public.

‘‘Let the world see it as a part of our country’s heritage and beauty,’’ said Gen J Singh, Chief of Indian Army Staff.

Gen Singh was speaking to reporters during his visit to Maratha Light Infantry Regimental Centre his last as Chief of Indian Army Staff, on Friday. He said that tourists, specially trekkers, can enjoy the icy heights of Siachen. Forces deployed on the border will not be withdrawn, he said. ‘‘I see no reason for doing so,’’ he added.

Better ration, pay commission and many other benefits for the Indian Army are expected in the next financial year, said Gen Singh.

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Army to promote Siachen as tourist destination

Postby Nayak » 16 Sep 2007 08:52

Army to promote Siachen as tourist destination

16 September 2007


BANGALORE — Siachen glacier, which was once the world's highest battleground, will now be converted into a tourist spot and thrown open to tourists.

This was stated by Chief of Army Staff, General J, J. Singh during his visit to the Maratha Light Infantry Regimental Centre at Belgaum in Karnataka. The icy heights of Siachen glacier, situated in the Himalayan mountain ranges along the Indo-Pak border, will be thrown open to the public to promote adventure tourism in the region.

“Tourists, especially trekkers will enjoy the snow covered Siachen and its natural beauty. Let the world see it as a part of our country's heritage and beauty,’’ Gen. Singh said.

The Indian Army, which controls the 72-km Siachen glacier, has set up an information camp at the base to provide details on various sight-seeing spots, trekking routes and adventure spots for the benefit of visitors. A group of 20, including eight to nine civilians and cadets from NCC, Rashtriya Indian Military College and Indian Military Academy, will be part of the first trekking trip to Siachen, beginning September 19.

"The group will acclimatise and train at Leh for 10 days before they are sent to the Siachen base camp for further training. Thereafter, they will trek, through heights varying between 14,000-feet and 16,000-feet, to reach the forward Kumar Post," said an officer.

Army sources said the ceasefire between India and Pakistan has made it possible for the Indian Army to initiate steps to convert Siachen into a tourist spot. However, the trekking expeditions will be carefully vetted and allowed only on a limited scale.

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Postby Arun_S » 16 Sep 2007 09:17

vinayak_dangui wrote:Sorry if posted before..

http://www.india-newsbehindnews.com/myc ... 11887.html

Braving the heights
By: Claude Arpi
The Pioneer

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007

While India's political leaders are busy negotiating a 'deal' to demilitarise Siachen, its people are showing utmost respect to one of the bravest soldiers who rescued the glacier from Pakistani hands. Recently, I attended a function at the district headquarters of Villipuram in Tamil Nadu to felicitate Captain Bana Singh, one of the three living recipients of the Param Vir Chakra. Captain Singh had captured the 'Quaid' (Jinnah) post dominating the Saltoro range in Siachen on June 26, 1987. If this peak had remained with Pakistan, a very large chunk of Indian territory would have today been under Islamabad's control.
What touched me was the spontaneity of hundreds of school children in Villipuram expressing their gratitude to a hero of our time. The next day, children of Puducherry showed similar sentiments and gave a tumultuous reception to Bana Singh.
The problem in India is that such lofty feelings do not rule the hearts of politicians who, in order to leave their names to posterity, are ready to give away what has been so painfully achieved. Ultimately, they may not even leave their names in history books.
A few decades back, in July 1949, a cease-fire line (CFL) was accepted by India and Pakistan. The CFL stopped in Ladakh at a point code-named NJ9842. The agreement mentioned that the line continued "thence north to the glaciers".
It was demarcated on a clear principle: If a territory was no-man's land and not occupied by any of the two armies, it was deemed a part of India. This was implicitly accepted by the UN Commission for India and Pakistan in the August 1948 UN Resolutions which acknowledged that the State of Jammu & Kashmir had legally acceded to India through the Instrument of Accession signed by Maharaja Hari Singh.
To India's surprise, in 1984, Pakistan began sponsoring mountaineering expeditions in Siachen and showing the glacier as its territory. The situation worsened in early 1987 when Pakistan established a post on a feature overlooking the Indian defence positions located near the Bilafond Pass on the Saltoro ridge. The post was so prestigious for Islamabad that it was named after Jinnah as the 'Quaid Post'. When Pakistan started sniping at Indian helicopters, some of the Indian posts maintained by air suddenly became untenable.
In April, New Delhi decided that the Quaid Post had to be retaken. The Army prepared to deploy 8 Jammu & Kashmir Light Infantry (8 JAK-LI) on Saltoro. For Subedar Bana Singh, a native of Kadyal in Jammu, who belonged to this regiment, the glacier was his first experience at such a high altitude; though he had just been trained at the High Altitude Warfare School in Gulmarg, the Saltoro range was altogether another experience: In summer the temperatures come down to minus 35 degrees Celsius while in winter it could get minus 70.
On May 29, 1987, a patrol of 8 JAK-LI was sent for the reconnaissance of possible approaches to Quaid post. Till that day, nobody knew how to reach the post. The patrol leader, Second Lieutenant Rajiv Pande and his men nearly made it to the post. Unfortunately, 30 metres to the post, they were sighted by Pakistani commandos who opened heavy fire.
While Rajiv Pande and five of his men were killed, three survived to return and report about the approach. The patrol had also managed to lay a rope till the top. Cold fury caught the hearts of Indian jawans; the loss of Pande's life should not be in vain. A month later, on June 23, a task force under Major Varinder Singh launched a new assault: The objective was to dislodge intruders. It was code-named Operation Rajiv in honour of Pande.
Due to bad weather, the jawans were not able to locate the rope; they had no other alternative but to postpone the assault. The next day, having finally found the rope, another team led by Subedar Harnam Singh climbed the ice wall and established a base. They also found the bodies of their fellow soldiers. But once again, they were detected and fired upon. They had to return to the base.
The same night, another attack was repulsed by Pakistan; most Indian weapons had jammed in the biting cold. Bana Singh was one of the 62 selected for the attack by the commanding officer. Though they had the choice to opt out of the suicidal operation, all of them chose to do their duty.
That night some anguish entered Bana Singh's heart; he was depressed. He prayed to the gurus and for the first (and only time) in his life, he clearly heard Guru Gobind Singh's voice: "I wanted to test you, Bana." All fear evaporated, he was ready for the daytime frontal attack.
At noon on June 26, 1987, the Subedar launched a most audacious assault. Due to falling snow, it was so dark that there was no difference between night and day, remembers Subedar Singh. He managed to lob a grenade into the Pakistani makeshift bunker and closed the door. As some of the elite troops of the Pakistani Shaheen Company of 3 Commando Battalion of the Special Services Group (SSG) were outside, Bana Singh had to fight a hand-to-hand battle; finally, the three or four remaining intruders were bayoneted. When I asked him if he felt tired or could stand the cold, he retorted, laughing: "In those moments, when it is 'my life or his life', you don't think and there is no question of tiredness or cold".
After silence had fallen on the post, his first thought was for the gurus. He offered his deepest gratitude. Thanks to Bana Singh's exploit, India is today in control of the Saltoro range and the Siachen glacier. Bana Singh was later awarded the Param Vir Chakra and the post was renamed "Bana Post".
But even as Bana Singh is felicitated by children all over India, he has been forgotten by his own State who gives him a meagre allowance of Rs 160 per month for his heroic exploit. Srinagar does not care for him.
Captain Bana Singh refused to comment on the political developments in Delhi and Islamabad and the 'impending' deal with Pakistan, but one can feel that like many in the Army, he would find it terribly unfair if Gen Musharraf's plan to demilitarise Siachen is accepted by New Delhi.
Finally, the irony: Who was commanding the SSG when Bana Singh captured the Quaid Post in June 1987? A certain Brigadier Musharraf! He and his Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto were so upset by the loss of the Jinnah Post that they launched a frontal attack on the Saltoro range in September 1987: It is said that they lost 1,000 elite troops in the misadventure.
Many believe that the Kargil episode was a way for Gen Musharraf, then Chief of Army Staff, to avenge the insult of June 1987. Again, the General lost face. What he was not able to grab by force, he would like to get by ruse today, the glacier having a much easier access from the Pakistani side. It would then be possible for the General to recapture what he lost in 1987.
One can only hope that the leaders in New Delhi will not fall into the trap. It would be a new stab in the back of Bana Singh and all those who perished to defend India's territory.


So "Quaid Post" is re-conquistadored to "Bana Post"
Indian Subedar Sikh Bana Singh = Quaidey Azam Jinnah (phounding phadar of Bakistan).

Indian Subedar beat Brigadier Musharraf (now Al-Presidente and CEO of Bakistan).

Indian Subedar (Greater Than)> Pakistani Brigadier and
Indian Subedar > Pakistani President

Sikh can force Punjabi pak-musalman to do mujra, (with full threat of force majeure). Punjabi Musalman has historical memory of doing mujra in front of Sikh; that is ingrained in their H&D DNA and ♦doesn't make them uncomfortable.
Just keep kicking their butts and nuts. and they keep feeling very homely. :twisted:

Once there was Jahil tradition in Pakistan that 1 Pakistani Muzlim was = 10 Yindu .. . . . (for those who do not know "Jahil" = pre-Islamic myth or false knowledge). Bana Singa banished the Jahaliyat to 72 virgins.

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Postby sanjaykumar » 16 Sep 2007 10:50

Punjabi Musalman has historical memory of doing mujra in front of Sikh; that is ingrained in their H&D DNA and ♦doesn't make them uncomfortable.

That is too rude.

:lol: :lol:

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Postby Arun_S » 17 Sep 2007 00:04

sanjaykumar wrote:Punjabi Musalman has historical memory of doing mujra in front of Sikh; that is ingrained in their H&D DNA and ♦doesn't make them uncomfortable.

That is too rude.

:lol: :lol:

Truth is after-all real and may seem rude (specially to losing side). But it is a truth that cant be wished away that Punjab (including the western part)was at peace with Sikh rule/kingdom, and will do mujra to Sikh governors/sardars & zamindars.

emsin

Postby emsin » 17 Sep 2007 02:20

As some of the elite troops of the Pakistani Shaheen Company of 3 Commando Battalion of the Special Services Group (SSG) were outside, Bana Singh had to fight a hand-to-hand battle; finally, the three or four remaining intruders were bayoneted. When I asked him if he felt tired or could stand the cold, he retorted, laughing: "In those moments, when it is 'my life or his life', you don't think and there is no question of tiredness or cold".


Rubbish..Bana Singh did much more than that. . Heck Bana Singh did the bravest possible act to approach that bunker. I'm well aware of the real thing.

That is way beyond what can be related here. That he has been short changed i will find out..
Last edited by emsin on 17 Sep 2007 02:39, edited 1 time in total.

emsin

Postby emsin » 17 Sep 2007 02:28

I am amazed this site has people that respect war heroes. Approaching what is called the Bana Point today was an act that is sheer courage. That CANNOT be done by lily livered people. It required the greatest possible courage under the toughest possible conditions on Earth. Yet this man, in a simple village in Punjab, not only did it..but had the leadership to exhort a brave set of men to do so too. That act is one of the bravest of it's kind.

It should be TAUGHT to EVERY school child in INDIA!

To show them what is Loyalty, devotion to duty and..the humility after it.

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Pak protests India taking tourists to Siachen

Postby Nayak » 17 Sep 2007 13:30

Pak protests India taking tourists to Siachen

September 17, 2007 14:23 IST

Pakistan on Monday protested against India's plan to throw open the Siachen glacier to tourists.

Further details awaited.


Just wondering what took so long for the pubes to protest.

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Postby Rudranath » 17 Sep 2007 17:20

Verbal war over Siachen: India hits back
9/17/2007 4:39:11 PM

Image
The Indian Army in Siachen

The Indian government has lashed out at Pakistan for protesting New Delhi's plans to throw open Siachen Glacier to tourists.

The Indian government, that controls a large chunk of the disputed Glacier has firmly told Pakistan that it does not need Islamabad's permission to open the glacier to tourists as they are going to a part of India.

Earlier, Pakistan had registered its protest against the Indian government's plan to throw open the Siachen Glacier to tourists.

Pakistan has summoned the Deputy High Commissioner to officially lodge their objection to India's move.

Earlier in a clear signal to Pakistan that the Siachen Glacier-Saltoro Ridge region will remain "non-negotiable", India had decided to open the Glacier to civilian trekkers.

The Army plans to organise trekking trips as part of "civilian adventure activities" to the world's highest, coldest and costliest battlefield which has not been witnessing the earlier fierce artillery duels due to the ongoing Indo-Pak ceasefire.

A group of 20 people including eight to nine civilians and cadets from NCC, Rashtriya Indian Military College and Indian Military Academy, are to be part of the first trekking expedition from September 19.

TIMES NOW spoke to defence analyst Maroof Raza who says the glacier falls within Indian territory.

"Logically if you follow the Line of Control definition as per the Karachi agreementof 1949, the LOC brings the Siachen glacier into Indian territory - so technically we are right. We are in Indian territory, Pakistan has always made claims there but these claims are not based on any accurate data."

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Postby ksmahesh » 17 Sep 2007 17:37

Arun_S wrote:So "Quaid Post" is re-conquistadored to "Bana Post"
Indian Subedar Sikh Bana Singh = Quaidey Azam Jinnah (phounding phadar of Bakistan).


Beg to differ saar, According to the outcome of Bana et al's effort it is clear that Indian Subedar >>> Quaid

In fact Pukistan's Quaid is Indian qaidi (Prijnor) :D

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Postby Gaurav_S » 17 Sep 2007 18:02

India hits back at Pak over Siachen issue

NEW DELHI: India on Monday lashed out at Pakistan for being irked over the civilian expedition to Siachen.

"We don't need Pak's approval to send trekkers to Siachen. The trekkers are going as part of the Indian delegation," a report in Times Now quoted government officials as saying.

"This is not the first time that an expedition has gone to Siachen. An Indo-French group has already been there," the report added.

Pakistan has summoned the Indian Deputy High Commissioner over the trek.

The 22-day excursion is the first in a series of initiatives to promote tourism in the territory. The trekkers will be accompanied by a team of military cadets.

Three of them are from Mumbai: marketing professional Mukund Deodhar, management professor Charuhas Joshi and public relations consultant Balakrishna Pillai. All are avid mountaineers and trekkers who have already scaled heights higher than Siachen.

However, it is kilometre upon kilometre of sheer icy terrain with no sign of vegetation that will pose a challenge this time. On Monday, they leave for Leh where they will receive training that will prepare them for 22 days in the chilly, dry climate.


LoL..typical pukes mentality as they own the world.
:lol:

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Postby abhischekcc » 17 Sep 2007 18:31

Arun_S, I am deeply impressed by your latent talents of abusive talk. :)


Two meals with us Dilliwallas has changed you forever, what?

When is your next sojourn to Indian capital? :twisted:

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Postby HariC » 17 Sep 2007 18:56

abhischekcc wrote:Arun_S, I am deeply impressed by your latent talents of abusive talk. :)



So am I , but I think its a better idea to do all the abusive talk in a sperate thread dedicated to that and not distract from a current serious thread.

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Postby shiv » 17 Sep 2007 19:12

Bana Singh: story and interview NDTV

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6sgdC2xbI4

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Postby satya » 17 Sep 2007 19:44

The opening of Siachen Glacier for civilian trekking might be part of back channel diplomacy and it can be first of step in tht regard to test the water . If TSP response in coming days is more or less muted limited to diplomatic protestes henceforth , we might see more such openings in near future .

Interesting point will be if GoI going by this stepwise approach make TSP accept this stepwise approach of recognising the present AGPL { incase of Siachen} as Indian's territory then Indian stands to gain more since we keep the more tricky issues of LoC for coming times and can be resolved depending on fast changing situation between India & TSP where ultimately TSP might be loser .

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Postby rocky » 17 Sep 2007 20:34

Interesting to see both countries try the same tactic for completely different needs.

India is trying exactly the same trick the Packees tried in 1983-1984 - but for different reasons - and openly.

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Postby pradeepe » 17 Sep 2007 21:36

emsin wrote:Rubbish..Bana Singh did much more than that. . Heck Bana Singh did the bravest possible act to approach that bunker. I'm well aware of the real thing.

That is way beyond what can be related here. That he has been short changed i will find out..


Can you please elaborate. This is not an official MoD/Services site, so pls write up that story.

thanks.

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Postby Paul » 18 Sep 2007 04:18

I would like to thank Vishnu Som for posting this on You tube. Wish we had more journos like him. In three parts, has interviews with Col. Nrandra Kumar and PVC winner Bana Singh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6sgdC2x ... ed&search=

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Postby shiv » 18 Sep 2007 06:43

Paul wrote:I would like to thank Vishnu Som for posting this on You tube. Wish we had more journos like him. In three parts, has interviews with Col. Nrandra Kumar and PVC winner Bana Singh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6sgdC2x ... ed&search=


er.. Vishnu did not post it on YouTube.. :oops:

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Postby Ananth » 18 Sep 2007 07:22

shiv wrote:er.. Vishnu did not post it on YouTube.. :oops:


Shiv please convey my thanks to cybersurg :)

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Postby Paul » 18 Sep 2007 07:37

You are right Shiv.

Please convery my thanks to cybersurg....... 8)
Last edited by Paul on 18 Sep 2007 09:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Arun_S » 18 Sep 2007 09:22

shiv wrote:
Paul wrote:I would like to thank Vishnu Som for posting this on You tube. Wish we had more journos like him. In three parts, has interviews with Col. Nrandra Kumar and PVC winner Bana Singh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6sgdC2x ... ed&search=


er.. Vishnu did not post it on YouTube.. :oops:

Thanks Doc-surg

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Postby Gaurav_S » 18 Sep 2007 17:25

Found this on Time

Perhaps first hand...


War at the Top of the World

Up at 5,653 m, Pakistani army Captain Ali Nazir watches the crows as they soar down from the spires of rock, gliding over the blue glacier. "I like the crows," Nazir says. He points to his soldiers clustered around a fiberglass igloo. "Aside from us, they are the only living creatures we ever see." And when the crows leave during the fierce, three-week-long winter blizzards? Then, says Nazir, "I cannot describe the absolute desolation I feel." He gestures grandly, like an orchestra conductor, at the view: snow clouds roiling down from the crags, avalanche tracks, man-eating crevasses ribbing the glacier. Soldiers see strange things at such altitudes—genies flitting across the glacier, phantom troops along a ridge. Men go mad and wander off to die in blizzards. "This is a terrible place. It is a battle just to survive," says Nazir, 27, his face darkened by high-altitude exposure.

Across a rampart of rock and ice stretching the length of the 75-km Siachen Glacier, an Indian soldier, Amarjeet Singh, is preparing to take up his battle position against the Pakistanis. Singh had served on the glacier before, in 1989, at the height of the fighting with Pakistan, but he thinks his second tour of duty will go easier. Indian and Pakistani troops are no longer shooting at one another. They are mainly worried about avalanches and deadly high-altitude sickness instead. "It was much worse before," recalls Singh, who says he now has warmer boots to protect him against frostbite, and better ice axes. Once he gets to his mountaintop bunker, entombed under layers of snow, Singh, like the other soldiers there, can call home by satellite phone from their soot-blackened igloo, while waiting out the hour that it takes to boil rice at these altitudes.

Even with improvements in military equipment, Siachen is still an awful place to wage a war. Both countries refuse to disclose their casualties in the 21 years that they have been fighting up here, but some military analysts put the combined death toll at anywhere from 3,000 to 5,000 lives. Temperatures can fall below -55°C; and more soldiers are killed in avalanches than by gunfire. To mount an assault on an enemy-held mountaintop is often suicidal. Because of the lack of oxygen, attacking soldiers can climb only about five meters before they have to stop to catch their breath. If you let bare skin touch steel for more than 15 seconds—a finger on a trigger, for example—you risk severe frostbite. Says Rifaat Hussain, who teaches political science at Islamabad's National Defence College: "It's totally insane to be fighting a war at these altitudes."

Recently, TIME was able to visit both sides on the glacier and talk to soldiers involved in something that, if not the world's most insane war, is surely the war fought in the most insanely impractical place. But the Siachen Glacier is worth visiting for more than the spectacular scenery. It is both a potential flash point between two nuclear powers—and potentially evidence of a new spirit of cooperation between them. The two neighbors nearly waged a full-scale war in 1999 when 800 Pakistani soldiers disguised as militants scaled a 5,100-m-high ridge near Kargil in Indian-held Kashmir and began shelling a major road used by the Indians to supply their Siachen outposts. India recaptured Kargil after suffering many casualties, but the Indians remain wary of the peace-making vows of Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, who, as army chief, had planned the Kargil offensive. Today, Siachen is more important as a test of diplomacy than of high-altitude battle skills. If India and Pakistan cannot solve a dispute over a chunk of ice that is of little strategic value, asks Jalil Abbas Jilani, Pakistan's Foreign Ministry spokesman and one of the key diplomats in talks with India, "then how can we fix more complex issues like Kashmir?"


read in full..

http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/50 ... story.html


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