Siachen News & Discussion

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Sachin » 19 Feb 2016 18:27

RajD wrote:In the photo of the martyrs posted by @ arshyamji along with the story only Mr. Suryavanshi is designated as a soldier.
Others, apart from Lance Naik are designated as sepoy. Could any guru please tell me the difference between the two?

Suryavanshi if I remember right from a medical orderly/attendant from the Army Medical Corps. So guess they use the English word 'soldier' to denote the lowest enlisted rank. Some other technical units do seem to use words other than 'Sepoy' - for example 'Signalman' in Corps of Signals, and 'Rifleman (Rfn.)' in Rifle Regiments.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby arshyam » 19 Feb 2016 20:28

Siachen martyr Suryawanshi laid to rest in Satara - Shoumojit Banerjee, The Hindu
Image
Army jawans carry the body of Sepoy Sunil Suryawanshi, who died in the recent avalanche in Siachen, during his cremation ceremony at Maskarwadi Village in Satara, Maharashtra on Tuesday. - PTI

Satara district in western Maharashtra bid adieu to yet another of her bravehearts, as the last rites of Sepoy Nursing Assistant Sunil Suryawanshi of the 19 Madras Regiment, who was among the 10 soldiers killed in an avalanche on the Siachen glacier, were performed with full military honours on Tuesday afternoon.

The grief-laden atmosphere at the tiny village of Mhaskarwadi, where Suryawanshi was born, served as another poignant reminder of the many sacrifices of the Indian Army.

A little more than two months ago, the district witnessed the funeral of the gallant Col. Santosh Mahadik, commanding officer of the elite, counter-insurgency 41 Rashtriya Rifles (RR), who sacrificed his life battling militants in the dense forests of Kupwara in Kashmir.

The 25-year-old soldier is survived by his parents, his wife Rekha and his one-year-old daughter Tanuja.

Thousands of mourners congregated to pay their last respects to young Suryawashi who died battling the cruel vagaries of nature.


For the valiant soldier, the grim, forbidding, ice-bound waste of the Siachen glacier was “a challenge to be surmounted.”

“He considered his posting at Siachen a dream one, as he loved the rugged outdoors and the mountains,” recalled his mother Sangita, crushed by her younger son’s death.

Suryawanshi, son of poor farmers, was recruited as a Sepoy in 2012 while he was only in his second year of graduation, pursuing a degree in Science from a local college in the district.

His teachers in Satara tearfully remembered him as a bright and enthusiastic boy, who was an ardent debater. Moreover, they recalled his many fine qualities as a person, warm, caring and respectful towards his elders.

“He had promised to stay for a little longer when he came home on furlough this time. Moreover, it would have been our third marriage anniversary last Sunday. And our daughter is having her birthday on February 19. We were looking forward to these moments of happiness, but instead are buried under an avalanche of grief,” said his wife Rekha.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby arshyam » 19 Feb 2016 20:32

Tearful adieu to Siachen jawan - The Hindu
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The mortal remains of Lance Naik B. Sudheesh kept at the Munroethuruthu Mulachinthara temple grounds in Kollam for paying military honours before the funeral on Tuesday.– Photos: C. Suresh Kumar

Hundreds of people from all walks of life poured into Munroethuruthu since morning on Tuesday to pay their last respects to Lance Naik B. Sudheesh who was killed along with eight other soldiers after getting buried by an avalanche at Siachen on February 3. The last rites were performed with full military honours in the evening.


Heart-rending scenes were witnessed at the house of the jawan when the body arrived there at 1.45 p.m. The relatives who were informed about the tragedy on February 5 had been waiting for the arrival of the body since then. The body, brought in a military ambulance, was formally received by Additional District Magistrate M.A. Rahim and Revenue Divisional Officer M. Vishwanathan at Kottiyam Junction at 9.30 a.m.

En route to Munroethuruthu, the body was kept for a few minutes at Kallada CVKM Vocational Higher Secondary School, where Sudheesh had studied, and then taken to Munroethuruthu Government Lower Primary School and kept there for more than an hour for the public to pay their last respects.

When the body reached his house there was a burst of wailing. Many were seen controlling their tears when the jawan’s four-month-old daughter was shown the body. By 3 p.m., the body was taken to the specially erected pandal at the nearby Mulachinthara temple grounds where the military honours were performed.

The body was taken back to the jawan’s house by 4.30 p.m. where the funeral rites were conducted at the compound of the house.

Among those who arrived to pay their last respects were Labour Minister Shibu Baby John, MPs Kodikunnil Suresh and K.N. Balagopal, Mayor V. Rajendrababu, District Collector A. Shainamol, KPCC president V.M. Sudheern, former Minister Mullakara Ratnakaran, and Kollam Bishop Stanley Roman
Last edited by arshyam on 19 Feb 2016 20:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby arshyam » 19 Feb 2016 20:35

Tejuru’s emotional farewell to Subedar Nagesha - Sathish G.T., The Hindu
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The children of Subedar T.T. Nagesha and district in-charge Minister A. Manju in Tejuru village near Hassan on Tuesday.— Photo: Prakash Hassan

Hundreds of people bid an emotional farewell to Subedar T.T. Nagesha at his village in Tejuru near Hassan on Tuesday. He was laid to rest with full military honours.


Nagesha (41), a member of the Madras Regiment of the Indian Army, died in an avalanche at Siachen earlier this month.

The Army personnel offered military honours before the departed soldier was laid to rest in his ancestral village.

The mortal remains reached Hassan late at night on Monday. Senior officers of the district administration received the body and it was kept at the Hassan Institute of Medical Sciences before it was carried to the Deputy Commissioner’s office premises, where arrangements for the public viewing were made.

As the body reached the office premises around 6.45 a.m., people from different corners of the city paid homage. Schoolchildren and youths were among those who stood in a long queue to pay their last respects.

Traffic was disrupted on the Bengaluru-Mangaluru Road due to the huge crowd that assembled near the Deputy Commissioner’s office. Traffic police were deployed to manage the vehicles. Former Prime Minister H.D. Deve Gowda, MLA H.D. Revanna, Home Minister G. Parameshwara, and Minister for Animal Husbandry A. Manju were among those who paid their respects.

Procession

The soldier’s body was taken to Tejuru, about 6 km from the town, in a procession. A few youths were clad in T-shirts bearing an image of the soldier. The body was laid to rest around 1.20 p.m.

MLA H.S. Prakash, district in-charge Minister A. Manju and senior officers of Hassan district administration were present.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby arshyam » 19 Feb 2016 20:39

Mustaq Ahmed laid to rest - The Hindu
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Deputy Chief Minister K.E. Krishnamurthy handing over a cheque for Rs.25 lakh towards ex gratia to Nasimunnisa at Parnapalle in Kurnool district on Tuesday. District Collector Ch. Vijayamohan is seen. —.PHOTO: U. SUBRAMANYAM

All roads led to Parnapalle of Bandi Atmakur mandal in Kurnool district, where the body of Mustaq Ahmed, a Sepoy of the Madras Regiment, who attained martyrdom in an avalanche strike at Siachen, was laid to rest with State honours on Tuesday.
Earlier, the mortal remains of Mustaq Ahmed, brought by Major Naren Babu and other Army officials in a special vehicle from Hyderabad, reached his native village at around 12.30 a.m., almost 12 days after declaration of his death.

His family members, relatives, and a large number of people paid their last respects to the Siachen braveheart at the panchayat office where his body, wrapped in the national flag, was placed.

Deputy Chief Minister K.E. Krishnamurthy, District Collector Ch. Vijayamohan, and MLC S. Chakrapani Reddy placed wreaths on the sepoy’s body and paid homage. Mr. Krishnamurthy also visited Ahmed’s house and offered his heartfelt condolences, and presented a cheque for Rs. 25 lakh to the soldier’s widow, Nasimunnisa. Mr. Krishnamurthy said that the government would offer a job to Ms. Nasimunnisa basing on her educational qualification, besides allotting a house site either at Kurnool or Nandyal.

Mustaq Ahmed, the first youth of Parnapalle to join the Indian Army 12 years ago, inspired eight other youths of the village to follow suit, TDP MLC Silpa Chakrapani Reddy said after paying homage to the martyr.

YSR Congress president and Lead of Opposition Y.S. Jaganmohan Reddy visited Parnapalle and paid homage to the soldier and offered condolences to his widow.

Major Madhu Maneesh and other soldiers presented a guard of honour and lowered their guns while police personnel opened three rounds in the air as a mark of respect to the departed soldier.


Army personnel carried Mustaq Ahmed’s body from the panchayat office to the burial ground about half-a-km away, where Muslim religious elders and his three brothers performed the last rites.

Mustaq Ahmed married Nasimunnisa in August 2014 and they were blessed with a son Syed Mohsin on August 3, 2015. He left Parnapalle to Siachen on August 18 last year, promising to be back in six months.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby arshyam » 19 Feb 2016 20:46

Sepoy Mahesha laid to rest in Pashupathi - Laiqh A. Khan

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Relatives paying homage to Sepoy P.N. Mahesha in Mysuru on Tuesday.— Photo: PTI

The mortal remains of Sepoy P.N. Mahesha were laid to rest with military honours at his ancestral village in Pashupathi in K.R. Nagar taluk, about 75 km from Mysuru, on Tuesday.


Thousands of people from Pashupathi and surrounding villages arrived to pay their last respects. The Army personnel, who had accompanied the body, paid their tributes to the departed soldier amid the sound of the bugle in the presence of Minister in-charge of Mysuru district, V. Srinivas Prasad, and senior officials of the district administration.

The Sepoy’s mother Sarvamangala and elder brother Manjunath, who received the body at the Government Guest House in Mysuru on Monday, accompanied the body to H.D. Kote, where the family had settled, and later to their native Pashupathi.

Chief Minister Siddaramaiah and Mr. Prasad paid their last respects to the soldier at Government Guest House in Mysuru on Monday night.

A large number of people turned up at H.D. Kote to pay their last respects. Mr. Siddaramaiah handed over a cheque of Rs. 25 lakh and announced the grant of four acres of land to the next of kin. Deputy Commissioner of Mysuru district C. Shikha directed the tahsildar of H.D. Kote to identify suitable land for the purpose, an official said.

The last journey of the Sepoy began from H.D. Kote to Pashupathi with a convoy of vehicles accompanying the ambulance. Police, Army personnel, family members and close relatives accompanied the vehicle, while a large number of people paid their tributes en route. Schoolchildren lined the pavement and saluted the Sepoy.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby arshyam » 19 Feb 2016 20:48

Help pours in for families - K.C. Deepika, The Hindu
Nearly a fortnight after 10 Indian soldiers lost their lives in Siachen, the highest battlefield in the world, civilians are pitching in to help their families. Many people have started approaching the Army offering aid to the martyr’s families.

The soldiers, belonging to the Madras Regiment, were buried under 35 feet of snow after their post was hit by an avalanche on February 3.

While one soldier, Lance Naik Hanamanthappa Koppad from Karnataka, died in hospital despite miraculously surviving the snow for six days, the bodies of the other nine soldiers were brought to New Delhi on Monday, and then flown to their native places after being accorded full military honours.

Now, with offers pouring in to help the families of the soldiers, the Madras Regimental Centre has decided to formalise the management of the receipt and disbursement of the aid.

A message being circulated said: “As a result of favourable media coverage, a lot of people are approaching us with offers to help the families of the 10 martyrs financially or otherwise. Some want to help all families while others are individual/State centric. Unless specified, the aid received will be equally distributed to the families. We are not soliciting aid, but are only facilitating receipt and disbursement in an organised manner.”

While this is only for personnel from the Army and Army veterans, civilians have been asked to contact the Army headquarters in New Delhi if they wish to contribute, as the Madras Regimental Centre Siachen Relief Fund is likely to be discontinued to avoid duplication.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby arshyam » 19 Feb 2016 20:57

Tributes paid to soldiers who died in Siachen glacier - The Hindu
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NCC cadets taking out a rally in Erode on Thursday to pay homage to the soldiers who lost their lives in an avalanche in Siachen.—PHOTO : M. GOVARTHAN

NCC cadets attached to 15(TN) battalion joined ex-servicemen in taking out a ‘martyr’s homage rally’ on Thursday as a mark of respect and tribute to the soldiers who lost their lives in the avalanche at Siachen glacier.

The rally was inaugurated by Brig (retd.) Lokhanathan and District Collector S. Prabakar.

The 15(TN) Battalion NCC will conduct more such rallies involving ex-servicemen.

Namakkal district

As many as 1,000 cadets took part in the rally in Erode on Thursday and at Paramathi Velur in Namakkal district on Wednesday.

Army officials, who had served in the glacier, detailed about the terrain and the valiant sacrifice of soldiers.

The 15(TN) Battalion Colonel Sudhir said has arranged for a film on the Siachen glacier.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby arshyam » 19 Feb 2016 20:58

Settlement to wife of Siachen victim - The Hindu
Life Insurance Corporation (LIC) of India, Vellore division on Monday handed over a cheque for Rs. 9.36 lakh to Jamuna Rani, wife of Havildar M. Elumalai, who was killed in an avalanche in Siachen.

According to officials, the soldier had taken a life insurance policy for a sum assured of Rs. four lakh two years ago. On receiving information about his death, the officials traced and verified his records.

They handed over Rs. 9.36 lakh towards death claim to his wife before the mortal remains of the soldier arrived at his home without seeking any documents such as death certificate and claim form. – Staff Reporter

Good to see prompt action by the LIC, but they could have waited till the final rites were done, perhaps?

Also, this article says the soldier had taken out insurance, but isn't there an Army scheme wherein all personnel have some coverage by default? Can someone in the know comment?

P.S. In case one is wondering why I am posting these articles in full with images, it is to show the groundswell of support to our braves from the common folk of India (in this case, spread across at least 4 large states), during a time when certain centres of 'education' are propagating anti-national views. This is the real deal, not what's being cooked up in some cafe in the IIC or JNU in Delhi.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 19 Feb 2016 21:13

arshyam, many thanks for posting these news items. With the advent of social media and TV penetration, more people are getting aware of the army/Services operate. And more respectful of the services rendered by them.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Sanju » 19 Feb 2016 22:14

I echo Rohitvats words^

ARShyam, Thanks for posting the articles.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Vipul » 27 Feb 2016 02:42

India rules out troop withdrawal from Siachen.

Notwithstanding the loss of 10 soldiers in avalanche in Siachen recently, India today ruled out withdrawal of army from the icy heights in Jammu and Kashmir, saying Pakistan cannot be trusted and it may occupy the strategic area if India vacates.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said in Lok Sabha that vacating Siachen could lead to bigger loss of lives and reminded about the “experience” of 1984 when India evicted Pakistan from the strategically critical heights after a bloody fight. “I know we have to pay the price and I salute our armed forces personnel. But we have to maintain this position. We have to man the strategic position. The position is very important from the strategic point,” Parrikar said while replying to questions against the backdrop of the recent loss of 10 soldiers in an avalanche.

“I don’t think anyone in this House can take Pakistan’s words for granted…If we vacate the position, the enemy can occupy the position and they would have the strategic advantage. Then we would have to lose many more lives. We know the experience of 1984 (Siachen conflict),” he said.

India occupies the highest point in Siachen glaciers, the Saltoro Ridge which is located at 23,000 feet, he said. On February 3, an avalanche hit an army post in a forward location in Siachen glacier, burying 10 soldiers, including a JCO. One of them was found alive under a huge mass of ice after six days but he died a few days later.

The Defence Minister said so far 915 people have lost their lives in the last 32 years in Siachen, which comes to 28 lives every year. This has now been reduced to 10 lives every year. Parrikar said constant medical support is given to those serving in the Siachen glaciers which is six times more than the normal medical care. A total of 19 categories of clothing are provided to the soldiers in addition to various other assistance like snow scooters.

“There is no supply shortage. We can’t totally conquer nature,” he said. In Rajya Sabha, JD(U) member K C Tyagi voiced concern over the death of soldiers in Siachen recently and said India and Pakistan should work towards withdrawal of troops from such tough areas to save the lives from both sides.(Another Jaichand signalling to the Pakis "recruit me", send me a hoor)

Raising the issue during Zero Hour, Tyagi referred to the avalanche mishap and said many Indian and Pakistani soldiers die due to difficult working conditions in Siachen. He recalled that during the Prime Ministership of Rajiv Gandhi, an attempt was made to withdraw forces from both sides from such difficult terrain.This issue should figure in talks between India and Pakistan whenever it happens next time so that untimely deaths of soldiers can be prevented, Tyagi said. (So despite the Defence Minister giving the reason why we cant vacate the Siachen Heights , the ba****d still wants to complete the task of Indian withdrawal from Siachen - which was sought to be initiated by Rajiv Gandhi. Bloody Ass-Ho*e)

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby vishvak » 27 Feb 2016 09:54

Actually, Pakis should not be anywhere near PoK.
Govt makes it clear: India has not forgotten Pakistan-occupied Kashmir
Doval’s statement at a function organised by the BSF last Friday that India shares borders with seven, and not six, countries, including Afghanistan, effectively counters the Pakistani argument that New Delhi has no locus standi in Kabul.
..
Modi made it clear that PoK is Indian territory under dispute with Pakistan and expressed his serious concern over China developing a $46 billion corridor linking Kashgar to Gwadar via PoK.
..

Some more link
Asserting that India's position over the Gilgit Baltistan issue has been clear from the very beginning, Minister of State in the Prime Minister's Office (PMO) Dr. Jitendra Singh on Monday said even the Constitution of Pakistan does not recognize the area as a part of the Islamic republic.
..
The people of Gilgit Baltistan have rejected the elections being held today, demanding an end to the colonial rule of Pakistan outside the United Nations Office in Gilgit city.


Another link
a resolution passed by India’s parliament in 1994 states there is “nothing outstanding as far as Jammu and Kashmir and Gilgit Baltistan is concerned, except for retrieving the portions of Jammu and Kashmir, including Gilgit Baltistan, which continue to remain under the illegal occupation of Pakistan”.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby vishvak » 27 Feb 2016 11:17

x-posting
viewtopic.php?p=1984691#p1984691

See the first link, the UN resolution on Kashmir 'dispute' includes 3 steps of sequential-and-conditional requirements, the first one being demilitarization by Pakis to the satisfaction of UN body, THEN ie first condition being met, second one being Indian demilitarize AND permitted to defend against 'Pakistani Aggression', and so on.

There are reasons why no Pakistani man has never read the UN resolution, while complaining in its name. On the other hand, Indian behavior in Kashmir in general is very defensive though not needed so before demilitarization by Pakis. We have nothing to give up anymore primarily because Pakis have not fulfilled UN obligations and also because the Indian forces are defensive and not willing to militarize and target Paki forces as the conflict was ongoing then before ceasefire was announced.

Anyone putting the case otherwise need to be asked similar questions. The same would hold true for Siachen too probably.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby RajD » 28 Mar 2016 16:33

In today's Marathi news paper 'Loksatta' in an article by Anant Bagaitkar reporting from New Delhi there is a reference to the talks between India - Pak. regarding demiliterization of Siachen. He says nature of the talks is very serious and in all probability NAMO would do the unthinkable which other P.M.s failed to achieve.
Do gurus have any inkling, inside info. or is it only mischievous ddmitis?
Regards.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Vipul » 28 Mar 2016 20:37

No Way :x
Not unless the Shitistanis endorse, sign and authenticate the actual ground positions existing as of today. Even then we will loose a big leverage to disrupt any potential Pak/chinese hook-up in this sector. I hope the Army puts it foot down on the compromising breed of politicians. If this report is true the Modi needs a big kick on his backside.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby RajD » 28 Mar 2016 22:15

Sirs,
One correction.
It's MarathI daily 'Sakal' and not 'Loksatta' as mentioned by me in my post above. And it's been discussed by NSAs of both the nations despite strong opposition from the Indian Army.
Regards.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby arshyam » 01 Apr 2016 19:36

Army Chief Visits Siachen Glacier After 17 Casualties in 3 Months Due to Avalanches - Fayaz Wani, TNIE

SRINAGAR: With army losing 17 of its men in avalanches in Siachen glacier in the first three months of this year, Army chief General Dalbir Singh visited the world’s highest battlefield to boost the morale of the troops.

“Army chief General Dalbir Singh visited the Siachen glacier yesterday to review the situation,” Defence spokesman of Northern Command Colonel S D Goswami said.

Singh’s visit took place in the backdrop of recent instances of snow avalanches hitting the army posts and patrols in the world’s highest battlefield.

On March 25, an avalanche had hit an army patrol in Turtuk sector of Siachen killing two soldiers.

Goswami said the Army Chief visited the sites in Siachen, where the avalanches had hit the army causing casualties.

“He (General Dalbir) interacted with the soldiers serving at Siachen and commended them for their outstanding work in the difficult conditions at the glacier.

Another army official said the army chief told the army men that they are being provided best equipment and clothing to deal with the hostile weather conditions in the world’s highest battlefield.

He also assured the troops that all needs and requirements of the men are being taken care on.

“The army chief exhorted the soldiers to be careful to the avalanche threats and move cautiously,” the official said.

The soldiers deployed at Siachen glacier are provided special winter clothing including extreme cold climate clothing which includes trousers, jackets, gloves, sun glasses etc. to withstand extreme temperatures as per authorization.

Goswami said the Army Chief also separately met the porters, who work tirelessly to maintain the posts at those difficult conditions in Siachen.

The Army Chief was accompanied by Northern command chief Lt General D S Hooda and GOC of Leh based 14 Corps Lt General SK Patyal.

At least 17 soldiers have been killed in four avalanches in Siachen glacier in first three months of this year.

On March 25, avalanche hit army patrol in Turtuk in Siachen killing 2 soldiers.

Earlier, in mid March, an army man was killed and another rescued after their post was hit by an avalanche in Kargil sector.

In February, 10 soldiers were killed after the army post was hit by a massive snow avalanche in Siachen glacier.

In January, 4 army men were killed after their patrol was hit by an avalanche in the Siachen glacier.

In 2015, 9 army men were killed while 8 and 10 soldiers were killed in 2014 and 2013 respectively.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby vasu raya » 01 Apr 2016 19:39

^^^

They should conduct post mortems to determine if the cause is impact of ice boulders or being frozen in the cold and how long they survived from the event.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby arshyam » 01 Apr 2016 19:43

Body of soldier recovered from Siachen avalanche - IANS, Bus. Std.

The body of a soldier swept away by an avalanche in Siachen Glacier area of Jammu and Kashmir was recovered on Saturday, a defence official said.

"Mortal remains of Rifleman Sunil Rai, who was buried under snow after an avalanche struck an army patrol in the Turtuk Sector on Friday, was recovered by rescue teams today (Saturday) morning," army's Northern Command spokesperson Col S D Goswami told IANS here.

Lance Havildar Bhawan Tamang, who was rescued immediately after the avalanche and evacuated for medical treatment, could however not be revived and succumbed on Friday itself.

"The mortal remains of the soldiers are being evacuated from the area of the avalanche, after which a wreath-laying ceremony will be conducted to honour the martyrs.Thereafter, they will be transported by air to their native places where they will be accorded funerals with full military honours," he said.

Tamang is survived by his wife, a six-year-old daughter and his parents, whereas Rai is survived by his parents and two younger brothers.

Northern Command Chief, Lt Gen D S Hooda has expressed his deep condolences to both families and that the "Indian Army fraternity stands shoulder to shoulder with the bereaved families in their hour of grief".

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Prem » 20 Apr 2016 07:57

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/video/isro ... 46696.html
ISRO miracle gel: A touch of warmth for soldiers in Siachen
Video in Link
ISRO scientist at Vikram Sarabhai Space Center have developed a miracle gel can prevent loss of body heat at -50 degree celcius.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Kashi » 06 Oct 2016 10:44

NorthernComd.IA@NorthernComd_IA
High Altitude Siachen Trek for Civilians , Trekkers mov to Base Camp , Final Trek to commence from today.

Image
Image

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 06 Oct 2016 16:28

If it is was the 'Sakal' (Morning) then i wouldn't be too worried

The rag had a reputation (at least till some years ago) as being sensationalist

The locals would disparagingly refer to it as 'Sakal-Bakaal-Kapaal' :)

Bakaal meaning an out-of-bound area .... sometimes slang for a red-light area
Kapaal meaning forehead.... slang for a face-palm

drrsda wrote:Sirs,
One correction.
It's MarathI daily 'Sakal' and not 'Loksatta' as mentioned by me in my post above. And it's been discussed by NSAs of both the nations despite strong opposition from the Indian Army.
Regards.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Aditya G » 04 Dec 2016 17:15

Superb article establishing status of the war in Siachen as of 2016.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1160814/j ... ENAdmqLTIU

In Siachen, a faster response system

SUJAN DUTTA

At the Siachen Glacier, Aug. 13: Hot and high above the river of snow and scree, Squadron Leader Mayank Paliwal’s helicopter shudders mid-air in winds that play wild in the folds of these mountains. A grey mass is rolling down from the peaks ahead.

Look there, gestures Paliwal. It is too noisy in the cockpit of the Indian Air Force Mi-17 V5 to be able to talk and listen over the thrum of the engine and the chop-chop of the rotors. He is also wearing an oxygen mask under his helmet.
Below, soldiers of the Indian Army watch and wait to collect rations and medicines.

As India marches towards the 70th year of Independence beginning next week, soldiers here pray at the OP Baba shrine in the base camp for freedom from avalanches and blizzards, snowstorms and whiteouts, and for regular medicine. The weather is such that they rarely feel hunger.

“Yahan ka mausam aur Bambai ka fashion ka koi bharosa nahi (you cannot trust the weather here just as you cannot trust Bollywood’s fashion),” Paliwal — Pali to his friends — will say later, like so many before him.

We were hoping to fly to the Kumar Post at 16,000ft near the centre of the glacier. Ahead of us the grey mass is opaque, containing within it unknown madnesses of Karakoram weather in this part of Ladakh that faces both Pakistan and China.
A half-hour back we had taken-off from the base camp, aiming for the centre of the glacier. But the grey mass was on the offensive, bearing down. Sky was merging with earth. So the pallets of food and medicine are dropped for the nearest camp over which the helicopter could fly.

For now, Pali tells his co-pilot to turn and make a “dry run”, fly over a drop-zone (DZ), without ejecting the load. We fly past the Teram Shehr and Terang Tokpo, two of the tributary glaciers of the Siachen, and serried ranks of a brown-and-black Karakoram range. Inside the cabin of the V5 the three-man crew prepares to push loads lashed with nylon chords. On the second run, the pilot pushes a buzzer and orders “go, go, gooooo!”.

The men push the loads on pallets. The pallets slide over the helicopter’s floor rollers and are out of the open rear into thin air. Almost immediately they bloom into parachutes.

Loads are parachuted because the supplies cannot be reached by road in these mountains that India must man, post by post, soldier by soldier. Pakistan does the same, to a different degree. Yet, somehow, wars between countries are still possible. Warring the weather looks impossible

In the six months since the life, resurrection and death of a lance naik, there is an urgency that has put greater value on the life of a soldier. But it fails to encapsulate the contrast between dying fighting for a nationhood and dying fighting ice walls. India and Pakistan are not shooting at each other here for 13 years. But one cannot come down and the other cannot go up — an “oropolitic”, that dictates that those who have the heights have the right to possession.

A cliche repeated here is that soldiers have three gods: porters, doctors and helicopters. In the thirty-two years since Siachen has come to mean an interminable India-Pakistan war, that belief has survived the changes in generations.

What has changed is the speed of response to emergencies. Since the death of lance naik Hanamanthappa Koppad of the 19 Madras, that speed has gathered an urgency. The Indian Air Force and the Indian Army are executing plans that are costly. But they are less costly than losing soldiers in a war that is not being fought between countries.

The war with the weather continues.

At the base camp below, the snout of the glacier from which the Nubra river flows in braided nullahs is confined to a corner on its left flank. On a visit another summer 10 years back in the month of May, this correspondent found a “neat” snout, a clear line where the snow ended and from which the waters of the Nubra drained.

Today, most of the snout is made of black moraine, formed by scree and stones that are embedded in the ice
, though soldiers say that in winters it will be all white again. In the summer today, the soldiers on the ground, who always had to be careful, are now delicate in picking their way over crevasses made in the shifting mass. Helicopter pilots have to fly “hot and high” — hot weather making it difficult to draw more oxygen into the engines that power their machines higher and faster — with lighter loads.

Image

The Siachen Glacier as seen from the rear of the V5 after the supplies are paradropped.
Pictures by Sujan Dutta


“Yes, the average temperature has gone up by more than 3 degrees Celsius over a period of time,” says Lt Colonel S.B. Sengupta, commandant and chief instructor at the Siachen Battle School (SBS) at the base camp. “There is residual terminal moraine and it is making life tougher,” he admits.

Behind the OP Baba shrine that contains holy scriptures of different faiths, soldiers pray before trudging up to their posts. At Sengupta’s SBS near the shrine, troops hold ropes to climb up sheer rock that are nearly perpendicular to the ground. They are practising scaling walls of ice. Sengupta doubles as a rescuer during emergencies.

Manning posts from 11,000ft to 21,000ft in heights all along the 110km Actual Ground Position Line (AGPL) on eastern Karakoram’s Saltoro Ridge, Indian and Pakistani soldiers have been staring at each other since the 2003 ceasefire.
The measures to save soldiers in distress have largely followed the public anguish over and the public appreciation of military fortitude in the death, resurrection and death of a lance naik.

Hanamanthappa was rescued days after the Prime Minister and most of the country gave up all 10 soldiers at the Sonam Post for dead. In his prising — Sengupta said he was found under blocks of ice that were two to three-storeys high — the soldier held out hope till he died in a Delhi army hospital on February 11. He owed his rescue to his commanding officer, Colonel Um Bahadur Gurung, who was dogged in the search for his men, and to the helicopters that enabled his flight from Sonam Post (19,600ft) to the south Delhi hospital.

Paliwal’s squadron, the 153 Helicopter Unit (“Daring Dragons”) and the 114 Helicopter Unit (“Siachen Pioneers”) flew in teams of rescuers and machinery for the search and rescue.

Last month, at another military station in Ladakh, Gurung, Hanamanthappa’s commanding officer, had described to The Telegraph what happened: “Actually we got a call from Rama Murthy on the radio hours after the avalanche,” Gurung recalled. Rama Murthy was Hanamanthappa’s comrade. They lived in the same tent that was buried.

“His voice was faint but we could discern that someone may be alive, may be inside a kind of ‘bubble’ that was created under the ice,” he said.

Rama Murthy had said over the faint signal that the VHF (very high frequency) radio set’s battery was dying.

“He was also exhausted and we could make out that lack of oxygen was playing tricks with his brain; he was clearly disoriented,” said Gurung.

Rama Murthy died along with the radio battery.

The Sonam Post was made up of a Russian tent, a para tent (made of parachutes) and a mandir (temple) tent.
Gurung called up the 102 (Independent) Brigade base at the snout of the glacier and asked for see-through-ground radars and ice cutters. “We tried to pinpoint the location and it was touch and go really; we did not want to miss the pit by a whisker.” On the third day, Hanamanthappa was raised and a nation’s prayers had gone up for him.

In 2012, the maximum was 13 degrees C, and the minimum (minus) 40 degrees C.
2013: maximum 13.3 degrees C; minimum (minus) 39 degrees C.
2014: maximum 13.5 degrees C; minimum (minus) 37 degrees C.
2015: maximum 14.3 degrees C; minimum (minus) 34 degrees C.
2016 (till June): maximum 15.5 degrees C; minimum (minus) 30 degrees C.


Colonel Gurung knows the impact of such change probably better than anyone else because he understands it with the heart and the mind.

Adding to the weather is the change in the deployment of troops all along the Ladakh frontier, from Kargil, to Siachen to eastern Ladakh.

There are probably more troops in the region now than any time before.

Military sources are loath to give figures. But within the five the five zones that have responsibility in the area of the 14 “Fire and Fury” Corps from Kargil (Alpha-Bravo sector), Sub Sector Haneef, Siachen, Sub Sector North (Daulat Beg Oldi) and Eastern Ladakh, the number of troops is estimated to go into six figures. Opposite India, Pakistan has troops from its Skardu and Gilgit formations; China from its Tien Wien Dian (TWD) and Moldo Garrisons that have large numbers of mobile units.

While there is hardly any shooting barring practice firing or shooting-the-snow (to trigger artificial avalanches), reinforcement by all three countries is the norm. India’s reinforcement is partly in response to the presence of Chinese troops — said to be non-combatants — in Pakistan’s Northern Areas.

At Leh this week, two Sukhoi 30 MKi fighter aircraft of the Indian Air Force made many dry runs, flying from bases in the plains, over Ladakh and swooping down to almost ground level on the airstrip before zooming skywards. The increasing militarisation in the harsh climes and thin air where oxygen is scarce means more dangers to more men, both on the ground and in the air.

China has three active airbases in its Zinjiang province bordering Sub Sector North: Hotan, Kashgar and Gargunza. The Indian Air Force landed the US-imported C-130J Hercules turbo-prop aircraft at Daulat Beg Oldi in 2013. It is now looking for “airfield mats” that will enable more frequent landings and take-offs from the uneven ground.

“Our helicopters fly there regularly,” says Group Captain B. Manikandan, Air Officer Commanding, Leh.

Wing Commander S. Ramesh of the 114 “Siachen Pioneers” says his responsibility is to serve all troops and even civilians in the area. His squadron is tasked from Kargil to eastern Ladakh, covering nearly a hundred posts. It flies the “Cheetah” helicopters. Originally, known as the Alouette, the Cheetah has morphed into a “Cheetal”. Its original engine has been replaced with a more powerful French-origin Turbomeca.

The result is evident. Group Captain Sundeep Mehta, who was also in the Siachen Pioneers, and used to fly to Eastern Ladakh, says, “earlier we could not switch-off the engine at a post like Chungtash because it would be difficult to re-light”. Ramesh, a couple of decades younger than Mehta, says that is not an issue now. The helicopters, and the pilots, are in any case flying at the limits of their endurance: the machines are flown higher than they are certified to and in weather that they are not certified for. Paliwal’s Mi-17 V5 and Ramesh’s Cheetals now cross the Khardung La (18380 feet) from Leh more times in a day than their predecessors could.


The changes in the air-support are projected to match the changes on the ground: the IAF wants its ALG (advanced landing ground) at Nyoma in South Eastern Ladakh facing Aksai Chin (about 25 to 30km from the Line of Actual Control with China — a few seconds in flight) to be upgraded into a full-fledged base. It is doing that in Kargil where the runway is being lengthened. At Thoise, where we were diverted because bad weather made it impossible for the V5 to cross the Khardung La last evening, there is now a heated hangar for helicopters. C-17 Globemaster III aircraft of the IAF land in Thoise regularly as does a civilian plane chartered as a “courier” by the army.

Thoise, near “Yankee” junction where the Nubra flows into the Shyok, is sometimes expanded to “Transit Halt for Indian Soldiers En route”, has detachments of helicopters that fly into both Siachen and Sub Sector Haneef as well as Alpha-Bravo. (Thoise may have also been named after a Ladakhi village called Thos). In Eastern Ladakh, the army is preparing a new Advanced Landing Ground (ALG) for aircraft along a new road axis called Charlie II.

On the ground, the infantryman who marches up to Siachen posts such as Benazir, and, yes, Sonam, is now being given “Avalanche Buoyancy Bags” (ABBs). In an avalanche, he is supposed to pull a ripcord, like a parachutist, that blows up underarms to make him “float” above snow.

From Israel, the army has since Hanamanthappa’s death, imported larger numbers of Xaver barrier-piercing radars that are supposed to see through 20 metres of obstacle.

“If a man says he is never afraid, he is either a fool or a Gurkha,” the late Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw famously said. The man who found Hanamanthappa six months back, Um Bahadur Gurung, is a ‘Madrasi Gurkha’, the likes of whom keep soldiers going.

Up here, in the “Oropolitics” of the Himalayas and the Karakorams, where mountaineering and flying are a must to get on top between conflicted states, the possibility or impossibility of wars is often subsumed by the light-headedness of thin air.
In the plains, where the world does not need oxygen cylinders to survive-in yet, the mind is not without fear, from disputed borders, for the men who man them, and from the elements, this Independence Day.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Atmavik » 30 Dec 2016 08:22

Gen Hasnain's talk on Siachen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YhRXPlTS4I



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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 09 Jan 2017 22:34


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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 28 Jan 2017 21:58

Why the Indian Army needs to patrol Siachen
http://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/patrolling-at-siachen-an-operational-requirement-of-army-colonel-n-kumar/525898/

Colonel N Kumar, who is also called the ‘Siachen Saviour’, said the army has an operational requirement to patrol the glaciers as it would allow Pakistan to occupy the Indian side of Siachen pickets.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Y I Patel » 31 Aug 2017 08:19

rohitvats wrote:
sudeepj wrote:<SNIP>

Claim2. Saltoro ridge positions help interdict Pakistani moves up the Shyok valley.

For point 2, i.e. Saltoro ridge positions will help interdict any move down the Shyok valley.. Chalunka, Turtok etc. are shown in the map below.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&m ... 460c2b3628

Chalunka lies to the east of Turtok, which is at the LoC in the Shyok valley. Presumably, the invasion of Chalunka can happen along the Shyok valley road. Please correct me if I am wrong, but the Shyok valley road runs, well, in the Shyok valley.. Is it possible to bring down corrected/observed fire on it from the Medium battery at Kumar base?


Please read my earlier post about threat to Sub-Sector West - that is what Chalunka and Turtok Complex is. The threat to SSW comes from PA position on southern portion of the glacier - in the area east and south-east of NJ9842. The access route to Chalunka is from Chulung on Pakistan side - the route comes from Chulung to Chulung La (PA hold north and we south end of pass) and thence down the gorge to Chalunka. This was PA can outflank the town of Turtok and Indian positions on the LOC along and around the Turtok. We maintain a series of high positions called as Bahadur Complex to dominate any access to Chalunka from Chulung Area. PA has repeatedly tried to gain advantage in this area - the second most dramatic operation after Bana Post action on Bilafond La happened in this area. Even in 1999, IA ensured double safety of the area - because any success of PA in this area will interdict IA supply lines mid-way in Shyok Valley making positions in Turtok difficult to maintain and posing threat towards Thoise.

See the map of the sector here: http://wikimapia.org/#lat=34.8251626&lon=76.9688855&z=11&l=0&m=h

PA does not need to occupy Siachen Glacier to pose threat to SSW.



This post is going to hold the record for the most belated response ever on BRF.

The discussion I am quoting Rohit on occurred way back in 2012, during the Gayari landslide and attendant peace talks. I do want to respond to this, but maybe some other time. The real reason I am quoting this post of Rohit here is the link to the map he provided in there, which still works by the way.

So in that map, take a look at the Chulung La area just south of NJ 9842, where the LOC passes to the east of the gorge that ultimately leads down to Chalunka. You will notice that there are two peaks that straddle the LOC. The one on the east was with India, and the one on the west is, if my reading of Gen VP Malik's account is correct, Point 5770. This point is now known as Navdeep Top after (then) Major Navdeep Singh Cheema who led the operation to capture it in 1999 during Op Vijay. According to Gen Malik this was an operation to rival the capture of Bana Post, and slammed the door shut on Pakis for the southern glacier region. If you look at the topography of that area, you can see why. The Colonel commanding that operation was Konsam Himalaya Singh, who later retired as LtGen. Apologies if there have been posts on this before, but this is a tremendously exciting discovery for me.

The revelations on Op Vijay (Kargil) that have come out in the last 10 years indicate that Indian commanders took the opportunity to interpret the thick line representation of LOC rather liberally to occupy some key posts in the Chorbat La to Southern Glacier area. Two accounts of key gains are out there - one on capture of Point 5770 that I mention here, and one on a key point overlooking Chorbat La that was conducted under command of then Brig HS Panang. I have read about them only recently, and have been pouring over the topography in Google.

This big take away is that through those operations, India has pretty much sewn up the entire SSW, and can even threaten a flanking move to overturn Pak defenses facing Thang and Turtuk. Also, the entire Southern Glacier area south and east of Guyong La is now firmly under India's control. More later, as inclination stirs me, on the larger implications of this.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby manjgu » 31 Aug 2017 18:39

otw turtuk..near chalunka one can see artillery pointing in northernly direction. 5 to 6 guns..all pointing north .... visible from the road otw turtuk... can someone mark 5770 on the map?

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Y I Patel » 01 Sep 2017 06:29

Lt Gen HS Panang's account of the capture of Point 5310 in the Chorbat La subsector:

https://www.newslaundry.com/2016/09/14/ ... chorbat-la

And an excerpt of Gen VP Malik's account of the capture of Point 5770 (sorry about the link, but that's where I found the excerpt of the book):

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-capt ... en.434023/

And Praveen Swami's account that touches upon the same operation:

http://www.thehindu.com/2003/12/01/stor ... 341100.htm

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Y I Patel » 01 Sep 2017 07:17

My best guess of the location of Point 5770. Note how that general complex dominates approaches from both the Indian side (gorge leading to Chalunka) and the Paki side (gorge leading to Goma/Sakisa.)

35.0120372N 76.9558811E

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby malushahi » 01 Sep 2017 09:26

Y I Patel wrote:My best guess of the location of Point 5770. Note how that general complex dominates approaches from both the Indian side (gorge leading to Chalunka) and the Paki side (gorge leading to Goma/Sakisa.)

35.0120372N 76.9558811E


yip, long time.

pt5770: 35.014669, 76.958631

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby sum » 01 Sep 2017 09:29

Y I Patel wrote:Lt Gen HS Panang's account of the capture of Point 5310 in the Chorbat La subsector:

https://www.newslaundry.com/2016/09/14/ ... chorbat-la

Outstanding story and thanks for posting it. Can feel the tension even while reading it

Whatever be the political inclinations of Gen Panag( for which he draws flak on BRF), there is no denying he is a great patriot who has done some amazing stuff indeed

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Atmavik » 01 Sep 2017 10:31

sum wrote:
Y I Patel wrote:Lt Gen HS Panang's account of the capture of Point 5310 in the Chorbat La subsector:

https://www.newslaundry.com/2016/09/14/ ... chorbat-la

Outstanding story and thanks for posting it. Can feel the tension even while reading it

Whatever be the political inclinations of Gen Panag( for which he draws flak on BRF), there is no denying he is a great patriot who has done some amazing stuff indeed


is point 5310 34°47'57.73"N, 76°38'37.69"E ?

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 01 Sep 2017 11:25

AtmaVik, can you give the Decimal Cordinates, it is easy for Aam Abdul to search on google earth. Every time I look up a place given by Shiv and Rohit vats, I have to divide sub division of Degree by 60 and then by 3600, add up in excel and then enter in decimals. For Eg, the above cordinates would be 34.7995, 76.64393. Based on Lt. General HS Panag Article, the digital cordinates are 34.763127, 76.640469, or 34D45'47.3"N 76D38'25.7"E
Last edited by Aditya_V on 01 Sep 2017 16:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby manjgu » 01 Sep 2017 12:18

can someone please please mark these position on GE and share for all armchair commandos !!

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Y I Patel » 02 Sep 2017 02:52

malushahi - I visit BRF fairly regularly, but am not posting as frequently as I used to :) Good to be back posting on what is probably my favorite topic! And thanks for confirming my guess - good to know I identified the peak and you placed the post where it most likely is, which is on the saddle of the massif.

atmavik - Yes, the terrain features for your coordinates match Gen Panang's. The main idea in pinning a post is to get the general mountain feature anyway, because we know from the account why that particular feature was chosen for capture in the first place.

Manjgu, you should be able to locate all features by merely copying and pasting the following in the Google Earth search window:

34.763127N 76.640469E
for the Chorbat La post

and

35.014669N 76.958631E

for the Chulung La post

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby malushahi » 02 Sep 2017 03:14

yip: one hopes to see more posts from old-timers like yourself. i do miss your inputs to discussions, whether orbat or eqpt, the way you used to in the late-90s and early-2000s.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby Y I Patel » 02 Sep 2017 03:44

In case of both these posts, the awesome thing is that there are drivable roads that get very close to the posts - the roads are obviously post-Kargil and represent the new thinking of the Indian Army for maintaining permanent posts in harsh terrains and climates.

Another thought to mull over is that plans to capture Pt 5770 started to be entertained as late as 1997, and Op Vijay lent the momentum and the motivation to make it finally happen. So one can fairly assume that until the ceasefire of 2003, things were pretty dynamic and some more consolidation can be expected to have happened. The advantage of high ground and mutually supporting positions is cumulative - note how Gen Malik mentions that even before mounting the final assault, positions were established to the north and south of Pt 5770 complex. Now the whole area around 5770 will be like the Bahadur Complex immediately to the east of it, which presumably also has a bunch of mutually reinforcing positions.

And this need not be the end of it either. India can choose to keep advancing at a glacial pace, and leverage the sheer mass of its presence to displace Pakis one peak at a time. Time, terrain, and technology are all reliable allies in this. Take technology for instance. Ironically, by raising environmental awareness about the pollution at the battlefield, Pakistan has forced the "play by the book" Indian Army to innovate and bring in technology like solar panels and windmills which have the potential to dramatically alter the battlefield. Think about it - everything so far has been done by sheer force of willpower, through an almost unimaginable ability to endure and carry out the country's mission. But plentiful energy sources not tied to a cumbersome and vulnerable distribution network can beget force multipliers like battlefield surveillance radars, heated shelters, even oxygen generators. There is more - electrical winches can be used to transfer heavier weights over sheer cliffs, much heavier weights than possible to be carried by an oxygen deprived soldier whose main attention needs to be devoted to safely getting to his post in the first place. Greater stores of food and ammunition can be accumulated, possibly oxygen generators can be located at larger posts for medical emergencies.

(to be continued)

(edited location of Bahadur complex to relative to 5770 - Bahadur is east of 5770)
Last edited by Y I Patel on 02 Sep 2017 07:06, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Siachen News & Discussion

Postby malushahi » 02 Sep 2017 04:00

Y I Patel wrote:like the Bahadur Complex immediately to the west of it


did you mean to say "east of it"?


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