The IAF History Thread

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby ramana » 03 Mar 2015 04:10

vsunder wrote:Kurt Tank and the HF-24:

Kurt Tank and the HF-24


Aircraft engines were constant weakness that did the planes HF-24 and even LCA.

And even more interesting is the constant search for engines from cheaters.

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby shiv » 10 Apr 2015 07:50

Air Marshal Moolgavkar passed into history yesterday at Pune
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Perso ... avkar.html

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby vsunder » 18 Sep 2015 22:04

Different war 1971, this belongs here:

http://indianjews.org/images/Tribute_to_A_Hero.pdf

Jagan has elaborated on Sassoon's death above.

As I remarked in the 1965 war thread, memorials are scattered and also seem to be incomplete. The IAF memorial pictured in the link above seems to have some names missing. For example. Sassoon is listed but his navigator Advani is not. They were flying a Canberra from JBCU( Jet Bomber Conversion unit) and it is well-known that the navigator on a Canberra did not carry a parachute. So Advani surely perished too.

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby Jagan » 19 Sep 2015 07:57

Yes, there is no method in the madness in how the names are inscribed..(or painted)..

In Subroto Park, there is a Hunter on a pole, below which is a plaque that calls itself "The Hunter Memorial" , listing the name of Hunter pilots killed in action... and right among them is the name of Squadron Leader A B Devayya MVC (Mystere IVa)

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby vsunder » 19 Sep 2015 08:33

In that list from 1971, Flying Officer A.R. Da Costa's ( Hunter) name is also missing. To be charitable maybe there are panels and this panel had Sassoon's name. Strange they had Devayya's name as a Hunter pilot, that is a legendary duel where he downed a F-104, someone smokin' something.
Last edited by vsunder on 19 Sep 2015 08:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby Raja Bose » 19 Sep 2015 08:35

Belated posting of this new but looks like Jumbo's medals are headed to IAF Museum (or might be already there): http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/iaf-acquire-jumbo-majumdars-medals-after-government-refuses-to-fund-their-acquisition-765051

In typical babudom move, GoI refused to sanction the funds (INR 28 Lakhs) and IAF had to dig into its discretionary spending funds to make the purchase before the deadline. :roll: As for the act of Jumbo's son selling those medals for money, the lesser said the better.

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby Jagan » 19 Sep 2015 08:47

The Jumbo medals and assorted items have already reached Air HQ from what I heard last time

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby Jagan » 19 Sep 2015 08:57

As for the act of Jumbo's son selling those medals for money, the lesser said the better.


I do have to support Jumbo's son or whoever it is selling their family medals for two three reasons.

First, in UK it is fairly common for a family to sell the medals to a collector than to donate, for various reasons. a number of families donated medals to find out the donated medals were lost, stolen or resold for funds and not displayed as promise. since every other house had a veteran, the medals lost their importance and many families did not care for them. Even museums did not care for them because they were getting donations left-right and center.. At some point It became a practice to sell them to collectors who treasured them, or researched them etc.. or to institutions who took care of them.

The Second reason I support selling them (As opposed to donating them to the IAF museum, is that in India we still need to come up with a strong practice of preserving artifacts. Certainly the IAF museum is 'not there' yet. They have misplaced items of note. lost items. I facepalmed when I learnt once that th eWW2 logbooks of Air Chief Marshal O P Mehra donated to the IAF museum have gone missing. Another was when Air HQ routinely burnt records relating to WW2 airmen because they have crossed a certain age (And retention limit).

Third (this is a personal one). I listed my old couch for sale on craigslist for free - nobody bothered.. Then I relisted it for $25. some dude came and purchased it :mrgreen: ...Moral of the story - people value something only if they paid something for it.

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby Raja Bose » 19 Sep 2015 11:42

True that. Now that the medals have cost the gobermint ex-chequer 28 Lakhs, the babudom will ensure they don't go missing/burnt/lost. :mrgreen:

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby Karan M » 19 Sep 2015 11:46

LOL at both the couch and babudom stuff. True!!

BTW in similar vein remember this?
http://www.thehindu.com/thehindu/2003/0 ... 991100.htm

Full confusion and complaints onlee.

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby shiv » 28 Oct 2015 09:31

Received on email

OUR WEDDING ANNIVERSARY - A UNIQUE EXPERIENCE

Background:- In 1971 there were elections in Pakistan which were won by Mr Sheikh Mujeebur Rehman; who represented the people of East Pakistan (now Bangla Desh). The West Pakistan, which was represented by ZA Bhutto, refused to accept the defeat and insisted on forming the Govt Of Pakistan with the help of the Army. The East Pakistan then declared themselves independent Republic, followed by unspeakable atrocities by the Pakistani Army. Over three millions died and a huge number started to walk across to India to save their lives. This put unbearable burden on India, whose appeals to the UN made no difference. When the number of refugees exceeded ten millions, India warned Pakistan of disastrous consequences. When nothing happened, War became inevitable. The Day was 03 December 1971.

My unit was flying AN-12s, a heavy transport aircraft, which was hastily converted to carry high explosive bombs-to be used as a bomber. We received the orders to bomb a location south of Lahore, where the tank division of Pak army was ready for attack on India. The orders to launch attack came at 1900 hours that day and I was airborne in heavy transport aircraft, which carried 44 high explosive bombs (each 250 KGs) on specially crafted cradles. Our base was deep in the Indian territory, so the first 45 minutes were to be spent in own territory.

I climbed to 10,000 feet to be visible to our own radars. It was a beautiful winter night and there was full Moon. The visibility was unlimited, but the whole of India was in BLACK-OUT as in passive air defence mode. My Radio officer turned on the Indian news and we could hear our Prime Minister speaking to the whole nation about why we had to declare war as the United Nations was incapable of any action. About a hundred miles from the Indo-Pak border, we descended to just 100 metres above ground-at night- to avoid radar detection. At 600 kmph, the ground was moving at an unbelievably fast pace. Our practices of low flying at night helped us to calm our nerves.

The artillery duel of the Armies now became very visible some distance away and we all prayed for a safe flight, as tracers were flying around us. The Navigator called out "two minutes to Target" and we all carried out the specified drills for release of the bomb load. The small arms fire was now visible and we just hoped that it would all turn out OK. We did receive small hits, but the armour plating under our seats protected us.

"Thirty seconds" called out the Navigator, and we prepared for the final activities. We were so engrossed in this that there was no feeling of fear. I could actually notice the line-up of heavy tanks as the Navigator ordered ‘bombs out'. I opened full power and pulled up the aircraft to create the movement of cradles, which went out in just eight seconds-each with three bombs. Even at three thousand feet above ground the explosions could be felt in the aircraft; while the tail gunner reported that all bombs had fallen on the target and were exploding every second. The atmosphere inside the cockpit was electric now. The worry was of Pakistani fighters coming after us. Our only defence was the fast firing tail gun, which pushed out 23 mm shells at a fast pace. We had to reach the border for security as quickly as possible as we could be easy meat for the F-86 aircraft that Pakis flew. The other factor was our low altitude where the air-to-air missiles could make mistakes. We were reassured once we noticed our own MIG-21 aircraft above, sent to lead us back safely.

We crossed Sutluj river which is the border between India and Pakistan; at near ground level for safety. The air defence radars came alive and asked us to get above and report position for guidance to the designated landing base. We climbed to 8000 feet above ground for further instructions from the radar controllers for our landing.

Our excitement was not yet ready to end. My tail Gunner reported an aircraft on our tail. Very soon that aircraft (our own MIG-21) had caught up with us and asked us to identify ourselves. I did that and there was some banter between us. I realised that the pilot of that MIG was one KOOKY SURESH; an old friend from Bangalore. Eventually we reached our base and landed-safe and sound; with many hits of small arms fire but acceptable damage to the aircraft. The Russian ground crews (mainly Airframes tradesmen) came to meet us and were very happy that their Russian made aircraft was tough enough to accept so much punishment.

I finally made it to the Base Operations to write my debrief and such other administrative tasks. Only when I put my signature on the Debriefing sheet I realised that it was our 9th Wedding anniversary. It was also the first time in the World, that a cargo aircraft was used in a bombing operation.

Gp Capt EN Gadre

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby Abhibhushan » 22 Feb 2016 07:42

I am sad to report the passing away this morning of Air Marshal KB Singh. PVSM AVSM VM VSM.

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby ramana » 23 Feb 2016 03:31

Sorry to hear that.
May he rest in peace.

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby jamwal » 11 Mar 2016 21:57

Interesting website with interesting details about various IAF planes.
Indian Air Force - Bharatiya Vayu Sena

http://members.tripod.com/mani_singh/

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby jahaju » 16 Apr 2016 19:34

Link

Panagarh airbase renamed after former IAF chief Arjan Singh

In a first, Panagarh airbase was today renamed as Air Force Station Arjan Singh after the former Indian Air Force chief.

On the occasion of 97th birthday of Arjan Singh, Marshal of the Indian Air Force, Air Marshal C. Hari Kumar, Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Eastern Air Command, renamed the airbase at a simple ceremony here.

“It is a proud moment for the Indian Air Force and the state of West Bengal. He is an icon and a role model. We have to work hard to ensure that the name is suitably looked after in terms of capability and performance,” Kumar told reporters.

“It is for the first time that we have taken a conscious decision to rename an airbase after an individual.”

Panagarh, approximately 150 kms from Kolkata, is located in Burdwan district. The airbase in Panagarh was constructed in 1944 during the Second World War.

Coincidentally, around the same time in eastern theatre, a young Commanding Officer of No. 1 Squadron, then Squadron Leader Arjan Singh, was leading the ‘Tiger’ squadron in saving Imphal Valley against the marauding Japanese forces.

His leadership and daring exploits earned him a Distinguished Flying Cross (DFC), which was pinned on him by Lord Mountbatten in Imphal during the operations.

Air Force Station, Panagarh, post the Second World War, played a significant role in the 1965 and 1971 wars with Pakistan.

Singh was the IAF chief from August 1964-69. He was the first Indian Air Chief to be elevated to the rank of Air Chief Marshal on January 16, 1966.

In recognition of his lifelong services, the government conferred the rank of the “Marshal of the Indian Air Force” on Arjan Singh on January 28, 2002 making him the first and the only ‘Five Star’ rank officer with the Indian Air Force.


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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby wig » 18 Apr 2016 10:15

No 18 Squadron of Flying Officer Nirmaljit Singh Sekhon, PVC ;is numberplated ‘Defenders of Kashmir’ squadron flies into sunset
http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/
The “number plating” or decommissioning of No.18 Squadron by the IAF this week would have touched a sentimental cord among both serving as well as retired officers as this is the only squadron to have been awarded the Param Vir Chakra (PVC), the nation’s highest gallantry award.
The squadron known as the “Defenders of Kashmir” has a strong bond with this region. Not only did the PVC recipient, Flying Officer Nirmaljit Singh Sekhon, belong to Punjab, but the outfit had played a key role in the 1971 Indo-Pak war.
Nicknamed Flying Bullets, it flew into sunset on April 15, exactly 51 years after it took to the skies in the spring of 1965. “The squadron had received the President’s Standards in November 2015 for services rendered by it. It was scheduled to be number plated last year itself, but the event was postponed,” an IAF spokesperson said.
Number plating a squadron implies that its aircraft are either decommissioned or allocated to other units for operational or technical reasons and it no longer remains a flying establishment. As has happened in the past, a number plated squadron can be re-raised again later with new aircraft. There are no such plans to resurrect No. 18 Squadron as of now. This has also brought focus on the IAF’s depleting squadron strength, though a few outfits operating old aircraft like the Mig-21 and MiG-23 have been re-equipped with Su-30-MKI.
Raised with Gnat aircraft, the squadron first saw action in 1971, operating out of Srinagar airbase with the mandate to defend the Kashmir Valley. The squadron undertook combat air patrol, carried out cross-border raids and also flew escort missions on attack operations. On December 14, 1971, Flying Officer Sekhon, who hailed from Ludhiana, took on six Pakistani Sabre aircraft that had attacked Srinagar, shooting two of them. He was killed in aerial combat, for which he was posthumously decorated with the PVC. The Gnals were later replaced by HAL Ajeets. In May 1989, when the squadron was based at Hindon, it was re-equipped with the Soviet MiG 27s. Its role changed from air defence to ground attack and it was relocated to Hasimara in the east.
Some IAF officers, including veterans, are of the view that Air Headquarters could have considered re-equipping this squadron with newer aircraft so that the IAF’s legacy of gallantry could have continued uninterrupted

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby Abhibhushan » 02 Jun 2016 11:30

Sad to record one more departure. Air Marshal Hamid Shahul, my pupil, friend and colleague, has passed away. May his soul rest in peace.

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby ramana » 03 Jun 2016 02:37

Sorry to hear that.
Rest in peace.

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby vsunder » 10 Sep 2016 01:54

From Bennedose's photobucket:

http://s1116.photobucket.com/user/benne ... tml?src=pb

Remark:
Black 3, B.S. Sikand went on to become CO of 22 squadron The Swifts in 1971. This squadron is the one that shot down 3 Sabres over the Boyra salient. The unlucky fourth guy Sunith Soares, who did not get a kill, went on to write a piece of the Boyra action for his school magazine. He states that Lazarus and he were playing Scrabble when the Scramble alert came. Don Lazarus, Ganapathy and Massey were chief guests for our LLR Hall day celebrations 1972. Lazarus gave the speech on behalf of the others, I have never heard such a commotion in my entire life, repeated calls for order were drowned out, maybe Lazarus got to speak after 20mins, entire IIT gate crashed and food ran out, but everybody was cheerful and the heroes and their wives bore everything patiently. Lazarus gave the most unassuming of speeches.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Boyra

The school magazine article by Wingo Co Sunith Soares:

http://stanislites.org/alumni/content/w ... ith-soares

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby jamwal » 01 Dec 2016 20:03

http://iadnews.in/2015/08/the-story-of- ... islamabad/


Mikoyan MiG-25RB Foxbat-B Reconnaissance aircraft created a furore when the pilot flew faster than Mach 2 over Pakistani territory following a reconnaissance mission into Pakistan airspace. The Foxbat broke the sound barrier while flying at an altitude of around 65,000 feet, otherwise the mission would have remained cover, at least to the general public. The Pakistani Government considered the breaking of sound barrier as deliberate to make the point that Pakistani Airforce (PAF) has no aircraft in its inventory which can come close

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby Lalmohan » 08 Dec 2016 23:05

Mach 2 or Mach 3?

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby shiv » 11 Dec 2016 09:29

Exactly 45 years ago - this was going on in the 1971 war in East Pakistan
https://youtu.be/t7v9-UJ4xj0

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby Rakesh » 01 Jan 2017 21:01


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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby Rakesh » 12 Jan 2017 22:02

I could not find the Kargil thread...so posting this here. An old article from 2015. But some interesting details....

Kargil ghosts still stalk India's military
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1150726/jsp/nation/story_33759.jsp

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby ranjan.rao » 13 Jan 2017 00:19

Dont know what is is with some people, again putting down the hard earned victory of our brave soldiers look at the gem
"The objective was largely achieved with the diplomatic intervention of then US President Bill Clinton who summoned Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif. A total of 527 Indian troopers were killed in trying to fight their way uphill against gunfire from the top."
Words like courage, bravery of our soldiers have no mention even in front of glaring evidence. Will have to give them that they have few positives still mentioned.

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby Rakesh » 18 Jan 2017 21:55


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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby Rakesh » 21 Jan 2017 00:52

AVM Ajit Lamba, one of the legendary pilots of the IAF turns 81 today. He still flies. Happy Birthday My Hero
https://twitter.com/writetake/status/822310310388199428

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby Rakesh » 30 Jan 2017 07:34

Remembering Nirmaljit Singh Sekhon: Saga of IAF’s first and only PVC
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/spot ... -only-pvc/

A search party found the wreckage of Fg Off Sekhon’s Gnat in a gorge, a few miles from the airfield. His squadron mates counted 37 bullet holes in the recovered parts of the wreckage. The location was Badgam — coincidentally, almost exactly where, in November 1947, India’s first Param Vir Chakra recipient, Major Som Nath Sharma, had fallen in defence of the Valley.

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby Rakesh » 03 Apr 2017 21:37

Why was India blessed with the moron known as Krishna Menon (and his mini me...AK Antony) is beyond me.
Read the fourth paragraph from top.

From "Know the Legends of the Indian Air Force: Air Chief Marshal PC Lal"
https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/846280769601490944

Image

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby Philip » 05 Apr 2017 12:09

We were allegedly offered total replacement of old MIG-25s with new MIG-31s,but failed to seize the offer.More's the pity.These aircraft now armed with ultra-LR AAMs are perfect AWACS killers in the current scenario. Incidentally,the IAF pilot who first flew the MIG-25 in Russia,related his unique experience with me some time ago.He and AM P.Rajkumar went to Russia in a secret mission to fly their latest offerings to us. He flew the MIG-25 and AM PR the MIG-23/27. I wonder who the pilot was who overflew Pak!

https://in.rbth.com/blogs/stranger_than ... ago_733386
The Foxbat that buzzed Pakistan 20 years ago
3 April 2017 RAKESH KRISHNAN SIMHA
On a secret mission in 1997 a MiG-25 entered Pakistani airspace subsonically at around 65,000 ft and photographed strategic installations near Islamabad. It then turned back towards India with the pilot accelerating up to Mach 2 and dropping a large sonic boom as he exited Pakistani airspace.
=
Russia proposes major modernisation of IAF’s Su-30MKI
How the IAF dominated the skies during Kargil War

The MiG-25 was Russia’s secret weapon against American bombers. Source: Dmitry A. Mottl / wikipedia
In May 1997 a MiG-25R aircraft of the Indian Air Force (IAF) flew deep into Pakistani airspace on a reconnaissance mission, photographed sensitive defence sites and broke the sound barrier, sending a powerful sonic boom over Islamabad. Before the Pakistanis could figure out what had hit them or scramble their fighter aircraft, the intruding MiG-25 – codenamed Foxbat by NATO – was back in Indian airspace.

Details of the missions are classified, so it remains a mystery why the Indian pilot chose to reveal his presence over a heavily populated area of Pakistan. Some sources like Spyflight, a website dedicated to reconnaissance and surveillance aircraft, have speculated that the MiG-25 pilot wanted to show that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) was India’s bunny.

“The aircraft entered Pakistani airspace subsonically (below the speed of sound) at around 65,000 ft and was undetected,” says Spyflight. “Then having overflown and photographed strategic installations near the capital, Islamabad, the aircraft turned back towards India. Perhaps to rub the Pakistanis’ noses in it, the Foxbat pilot decided to accelerate up to Mach 2 and dropped a large sonic boom as he exited Pakistani airspace. A number of Pakistan Air Force (PAF) F-16As were scrambled, but had insufficient time to make an effective intercept.”

India denied the incident but Pakistan’s Foreign Minister, Gohar Ayub Khan, believed that the Foxbat photographed strategic installations near Islamabad. Air Power International says the Pakistan government considered the breaking of the sound barrier as deliberate: to make the point that the PAF had no aircraft in its inventory which could come close to the cruising height of the MiG-25.

How the IAF dominated the skies during Kargil War

Flying at speeds approaching Mach 3 – 3700 kph – at altitudes ranging from 65,000 to 90,000 ft, the MiG-25s flew faster and higher than anything the enemy had. Flying at the edge of space, the aircraft was virtually undetectable to Pakistan’s radar network. Only the sonic boom and the fact that it was flying at an unusually low level allowed a Pakistani forward operating base to trace the Foxbat and scramble a couple of F-16As from Sargodha air base.

But chasing the Foxbat was pointless. Sources in the PAF told Air Power International there was no need to intercept an aircraft flying at 65,000 feet as the F-16 could climb to an altitude of only 50,000 feet.

Peering across the border
For a 25 year period that stretched from 1981 to 2006, eight MiG-25s of the Trisonics squadron based in Bareilly, Uttar Pradesh, flew unchallenged over Pakistan (and sometimes Tibet), taking countless high definition photographs and radar images of the situation on the ground. Plus, they recorded electronic emissions from Pakistani and Chinese military communication networks. On an average they flew 10-15 missions a month.

The MiG-25 was Russia’s secret weapon against American bombers and therefore was not supplied to even its closest Warsaw Pact allies. However, the defection of the traitor Viktor Belenko in 1976 compromised secrecy and it became available for export. Aviation expert Shiv Aroor quotes former IAF Chief Idris Latif: “I was shocked and delighted to learn that the Soviets were actually offering MiG-25 Foxbats to us in 1980. I phoned up Mrs (Indira) Gandhi and she told me to go ahead and make a decision….The Foxbat was the best in the world and it was made available to us.”

Tough as nails
Although the photographs taken by the Trisonics remain classified, legendary aviation author Yefim Gordon offers a glimpse into the secretive world of these high-performance jets.

The Foxbat R has no defensive armament but relies on its Mach 3 speed and its high operating ceiling to escape any attacker. In 'MiG-25 Foxbat, MiG-31 Foxhound: Russia's Defensive Front Line' Gordon writes: “The MiG-25RB (reconnaissance/strike version) and its versions were popular with their crews due to their exceptional performance: high speed, excellent picture quality, the ability to reconnoitre large areas in a single sortie and low vulnerability to enemy fire.”

The Foxbat spy plane could detect parked aircraft, trains, ships and visualise the condition of bridges and similar structures. The IAF often flew special missions for the Indian Army when it sought intelligence on Pakistani armoured assets. The picture generated by the radar was developed on the ground in a specially equipped van. According to former IAF Wing Commander Alok Chauhan, “These aircraft can map a country the size of Pakistan in a single-digit number of missions….”

7 interesting facts about the MiG-25

The aircraft could stand out in all kinds of weather and never needed cosseting in an air-conditioned hangar. The MiG-25 was extremely easy to maintain and service, demanding less specialised equipment and manpower than similar western aircraft.

Gordon adds: “Arguably the most impressive thing about the MiG-25 was that its extraordinary performance was obtained in a relatively conventional aircraft, one which was simple and cheap enough to be produced in very large numbers and to be exported. Interestingly, the only confirmed Iraqi air-to-air kill of the 1991 Gulf War was scored by a MiG-25, which downed a U.S. Navy F/A-18 Hornet, and MiG-25 reconnaissance aircraft can still operate with impunity over many parts of the world.”

The MiG-25 holds 29 world records, among including the altitude record in an aircraft using jet engines. On August 21, 1977, Russian test pilot Alexander Fedotov climbed to an altitude of 123,523 ft above the Earth.

Flying into the sunset
With India acquiring high resolution remote sensing satellites with the capability to read even the licence plate of a parked army truck, there was no longer a need for reconnaissance aircraft to overfly enemy territory. The MiG-25R began to look like a Cold War weapon.

The other reason was the issue of spare parts from Russia. IAF officers report that the Russians had closed down the plants that made Foxbat parts. They had even got rid of the blueprints. (This isn’t as negligent as it sounds; the Americans destroyed the blueprints of their top secret SR-71 spy plane.) The IAF was, therefore, forced to rely on made in India parts, which carried potential risks in such a high-performance aircraft.

The magnificent Trisonics are gone but hopefully one day the IAF will release the stories of the daredevil missions conducted in these powerful MiGs and the brave men who flew them over Islamabad and Tibet.

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby surinder » 03 Jul 2017 06:40

Per Ramana's suggestion, I am posting this question here:


I am visiting BRF after a gap and don't know which thread to post it. Some the threads on Partition or General UK policy would be more apt, but I can't seem to hind them. So this is where I post it for now.

Has anyone read the article https://swarajyamag.com/magazine/how-in ... rld-war-ii
It mentions that British destroyed defense equipment when they left India:

while retreating from India, the British destroyed vast numbers of aircraft and defence supplies that legally belonged to India. Leading defence analyst Bharat Karnad informs that the Walchandnagar Aircraft Company (the precursor to Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd) was contracted to build the B-24 Liberator bombers in Bangalore. Most of these aircraft were shipped back to Britain after the war.

But a significant number, which could have constituted an embryonic bomber component of the IAF, was deemed “surplus to the need” and deliberately destroyed by the departing British at the Maintenance Command in Kanpur by hoisting these aircraft, one by one, up by their tails to a considerable height and dropping them nose down on the hard ground.


Is this true? Can anyone give more details on this?

It looks like the author, Rakesh Krishnan Simha, has done his homework and is aligned with the BRF style of interpreting British history. He should be on BRF, if he isn't already.



Related questions:
Per http://indiafacts.org/father-of-the-nat ... n-for-him/
Gandhi got some kind of a medal, Kaisar-i-hind, for recruiting for the Brutish. Is that true? Did he get it for his service in South Africa or for recruitment for World War one? Did he recruit for WW II also? And, did he ever take responsibility for the Indian casualties in the WW I and II?

shiv
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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby shiv » 03 Jul 2017 07:41

surinder wrote:But a significant number, which could have constituted an embryonic bomber component of the IAF, was deemed “surplus to the need” and deliberately destroyed by the departing British at the Maintenance Command in Kanpur by hoisting these aircraft, one by one, up by their tails to a considerable height and dropping them nose down on the hard ground.


Is this true? Can anyone give more details on this?
[/quote]
Hello again stranger

This has some info
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Aircr ... 7-B24.html

surinder
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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby surinder » 03 Jul 2017 09:53

Hi there, Stranger. Your name sounds familiar :) :)

Thanks for the link. Very nice article. However, the article in BRF implies that treaty-wise the aircraft had to be destroyed. The article by Mr. Simha implies that it was British chicanery to destroy them. What is the reality?

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby ramana » 03 Jul 2017 11:26

Those who don't know about treaty blame the Brits.
ACM P.C Lal wrote 100 Liberators were there. About 50 were refurbished.
He too thinks Brits did it.

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby surinder » 03 Jul 2017 21:40

Ahh. So for once the Brits are not blame here. I am glad I checked here then.

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby vsunder » 03 Jul 2017 22:14

A few personal remarks regarding the IAF B-24 Liberators. In the late 1950's the aircraft graveyard was still there in Kanpur with many Liberators still lying there. There is a canard that floats around that I would not eat dinner unless I was allowed to scramble through this graveyard and/or go to Juhi signal cabin and watch trains departing Kanpur or entering Kanpur. These are all lies. I was repeating Vishnu sahasranamam all the time and doing calculus problems ;-)).
B-24's were regularly parked at No 1 BRD Chakeri Kanpur for subsequent maintenance. Later No 1 BRD moved to Nagpur since YB Chavan wanted Maharashtra to get something. AVM Harjinder Singh of Maintenance command wanted it to remain at Kanpur. But then Kanpur got HAL and the first Avro 748 assembled there called Subroto after AM Mukherjee.

Pima Air museum, Tucson Arizona has an IAF B-24 which is seen in the article on BRF. The Air museum has the actual flight log of the flight from IAF station Lohegaon, Pune to Tucson. One side of this aircraft has the Sea Dragon emblem of 6 squadron IAF. This squadron now flies Jaguars. The other side has the emblem of the US Army air force of ww2. B24's were used in the Black Sunday mission from Libya to bomb the oil fields in Ploesti, Romania and in many operations in the Mediterranean theater of operations.

The only working B-24 that is in flying condition in the world is an ex IAF B-24 rescued from the graveyard at Kanpur and put into subsequent IAF service. This is owned by the Collings foundation which travels around the US and for a fee you can enjoy flying in a Kanpur B-24.

http://www.collingsfoundation.org/aircr ... liberator/

The aircraft graveyard was opposite the old Traffic police lines in Mirpur section of Kanpur Cantt. That is all gone, both the traffic police lines and the huge open field which was were the planes were dumped. Houses have come up. I have marked google coordinates for the supposed place where I liked to go as a child.

The graveyard where the B-24's were stored was right here:

26.447019, 80.349588


The old Traffic police lines was here:

26.445761, 80.350046


The GT road along which the planes were brought from IAF station Chakeri, and later taken to for partial refurbishment and flight to HAL Bangalore:

26.444911, 80.347955

Chakeri is south east of here towards Allahabad. It was a joke in both the IAF and USAAF and it went something like this:

"You could always tell a Liberator pilot by the bulging biceps muscle in his left arm, from hauling on that yoke for 14 hours at a stretch."

Frankly I believe it.

surinder
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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby surinder » 04 Jul 2017 01:55

Vsunder, funny and interesting post. :) I looked at the maps. Looks like you lived in Kanpur, either as a kid or as a student. You don't have to answer it.

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby Kashi » 04 Jul 2017 06:24

surinder wrote:Vsunder, funny and interesting post. :) I looked at the maps. Looks like you lived in Kanpur, either as a kid or as a student. You don't have to answer it.


Vsunderji is a treasure trove of information when it comes to Kanpur and neighbouring environs. You should go through his posts in the Railways thread. He also mentioned that he's quite adept in speaking (among many other languages) Kanpuriya Hindi :D

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby surinder » 05 Jul 2017 21:45

Great to know. What is Kanpuriya Hindi? I know Kanpur and don't really think I heard a different Hindi there?

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Re: The IAF History Thread

Postby Rakesh » 29 Aug 2017 05:52



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