UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

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Neshant
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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Neshant » 22 Sep 2014 13:05


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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Neshant » 22 Sep 2014 13:08

India needs to focus on developing sensor packages for its drones. Merely flying, landing, auto-pilot, taking video images, infra-red, thermals..etc are what hobbyists already accomplish.

To have a drone program means to go well beyond those basic features.

Sensor packages like this need to be developed or at least on the drawing board :


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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Shrinivasan » 23 Sep 2014 11:52

Neshant wrote:India needs to focus on developing sensor packages for its drones. Merely flying, landing, auto-pilot, taking video images, infra-red, thermals..etc are what hobbyists already accomplish.
Agree with your point.. but you need to note one thing... sensors can be bought off the shelf, many of them are COTS... the platform is restricted, particularly the ones with longer legs. We are taking strides on all these...platforms, sensors, weapons package etc

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Indranil » 24 Sep 2014 00:20

Cross Post.

For all those who thought designing and manufacturing Panchi airframe is easy (and I still maintain that it is the easier than integrating the components that it will carry) please go through a tender for Workpackage: Composite Airframe Design.

It is estimated to be 7-8 man years of work (to be finished in about 1 year). Let me know if you guys think that it can be done faster.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Shrinivasan » 24 Sep 2014 10:12

indranilroy wrote:For all those who thought designing and manufacturing Panchi airframe is easy (and I still maintain that it is the easier than integrating the components that it will carry)

Precisely my point, building the platform is important... once we get it flying... we can work on integrating the sensor packages which would essentially be common (mission specific) across multiple platforms.
integrating it is a different ball game altogether.
If you go thru the development process for Netra done by IIT grads, getting that to fly was the easiest part.. integrating the cameras, transmitters etc was the most difficult.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Neshant » 24 Sep 2014 14:30

I don't think you guys understood what I meant when I said sensor package.

What I'm talking about is advanced stuff like ARGUS in the video I linked. That's a sensor package. I'm not talking about video cameras or thermals that any hobbyists can develop.

Argus and its associated suite of software is NOT available off the shelf at any price and it sure as hell isn't COTS. A country has to develop it on its own.

Developing a flying platform is not where the challenge is. That is the easy part. Platform is what you can buy COTS.

A UAV program should be almost exclusively focused around development of advanced sensor packages. Otherwise its not an R&D program but merely doing what hobbyists do.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Thakur_B » 24 Sep 2014 20:01

indranilroy wrote:It is estimated to be 7-8 man years of work (to be finished in about 1 year). Let me know if you guys think that it can be done faster.


7-8 years ? My neighbourhood Pappu Paper Plane wallah can do it in 7-8 hours. Shame on SDRE dhotiwallahs. /sarcasm

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Karan M » 24 Sep 2014 20:17

Neshant wrote:I don't think you guys understood what I meant when I said sensor package.

What I'm talking about is advanced stuff like ARGUS in the video I linked. That's a sensor package. I'm not talking about video cameras or thermals that any hobbyists can develop.


Video cameras and thermals can be developed by any hobbyist? Wow.
Sagem, Thales, Elbit etc must die of shame then.

Argus and its associated suite of software is NOT available off the shelf at any price and it sure as hell isn't COTS. A country has to develop it on its own.


And of course you know that India is not developing any software or C3I for its UAVs right? All the sensors magically fuse their data together, the UAV magically navigates around autonomously without operator input, the datalinks provide high bandwidth encrypted data all on their own.. its all hobbyist level stuff.

Developing a flying platform is not where the challenge is. That is the easy part.


Yup. Developing an UAV which flies 18 hrs non stop is easy. Navigates on its own is easy. Garage level stuff onlee.

Platform is what you can buy COTS.


Platform is available COTS at something called High COST. Also, not all platforms are available OTS either because platforms and sensor packages go together given integration challenges.

A UAV program should be almost exclusively focused around development of advanced sensor packages. Otherwise its not an R&D program but merely doing what hobbyists do.


And you know for a fact that no sensor packages are being developed for UAVs in India even when the discussion started off with complex sensor packages which you claimed you could work out in a garage. Sure, go ahead and put Sagem, Thales, Raytheon, Elbit out their misery. :lol:

PS: Argus is still a development program, get yourself some issues of AWST and see the number of problems that are legion in it (and similar problems worldwide).

Meanwhile your massa is still reliant on Predators and Global Hawks with "conventional FLIRs/TVs" which you and your friends can build in a garage. They also only fly automatically and do whatever "hobbyists" can do.

How come you haven't displaced Amrikas Northrop and Lockheed? Conspiracy!
Last edited by Karan M on 24 Sep 2014 20:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Karan M » 24 Sep 2014 20:19

Thakur_B wrote:
indranilroy wrote:It is estimated to be 7-8 man years of work (to be finished in about 1 year). Let me know if you guys think that it can be done faster.


7-8 years ? My neighbourhood Pappu Paper Plane wallah can do it in 7-8 hours. Shame on SDRE dhotiwallahs. /sarcasm


Your pappu paper plane wallah is nothing against expert-ji who could develop this in even lesser time, with some of his friends in a garage!

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Indranil » 24 Sep 2014 23:29

Moving on, I would love to see a Panchi Mk2 in 3-4 years time which parallels the Searcher Mk2. As we have seen from recent reports: the user needs endurance.

The goal is certainly within reach. The airframe is highly optimized. Internal space has already been gained by moving to the wheeled version. Put in an additional fuel tank. If required, increase the wingspan and carry more fuel in the wings. This will provide better aerodynamic efficiency also. This will increase the AUW, but the engine is reportedly uprate-able to 65 hp already.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Karan M » 25 Sep 2014 01:48

Indranil.. The pecking order may well be Nishant--Panchi--Rustom1--Rustom2. The Rustom 1 design is also well proven based on the Long Ez so why develop two platforms in the same class? It's getting ATOL to make it viable operationally.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Indranil » 25 Sep 2014 03:52

May be. I thought of that too.

But, my speculation is that Nishant will be discontinued, and we will only have Panchi-s from when they are ready to be fielded. Panchi Mk1 should be wheeled Nishant. Panchi Mk2 will have extended endurance. I expect this version to have an AUW of about 450-500 kgs and being powered with a 65 HP engine. Actually this is not entirely speculation. This was the plan in 2004 (according to B Harry)
Other variants of the UAV in advanced stages of development include a version known as the Nishant Mk.1W(Wheeled) with a fixed tricycle undercarriage capable of autonomous take off and landing from short unprepared airstrips. This will also allow the parachute and landing bag recovery systems to be removed in order to make space for additional payloads. Further developments will include increased endurance and range and a more powerful engine.


Also I have a feeling that the AUW of Rustom-1 will increase if it has to carry 2 Helinas (approx 100 kgs) as has been reported. In fact, if you look at VRDEs engine tender from 2 years back, it is looking to build a 135 HP engine where the typical "Preliminary Mission / Duty Cycle" would be:
a. Engine Start
b. Take off at 100% throttle (Take-off Power)
c. Climb to 20,000 ft at Max. continuous power for 30 mins
d. Cruise at Max. continuous power to 1000 kms for 5 hours
e. Loiter at 50% throttle for 24 hours
f. Cruise back 1000 km for 6 hours at Max. continuous power
g. Descend at idle for 30 mins
h. Land


I think the initial plan was to have a common engine for both the platforms, Rustom with one engine and Rustom-2 with two engines. But, it has been decided that Rustom-2 will instead be powered with 2 diesel engines rated at 175-200 HP. I don't know which engine will be chosen for Rustom. But if it gets powered by either the 135 HP or the 175 HP engine, be rest assured that the AUW will be close to 1000 kgs and endurance of 20 hours.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Thakur_B » 25 Sep 2014 06:46

Regarding EO package, ADE has called out tenders for version 2 of Mk-IV gimballed EO Package deployed on Nishant UAV. Now we know that Rustom-1 will borrow its EO package from Nishant, so that makes this new EO payload vital for both Panchi and Rustom-1.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Yagnasri » 25 Sep 2014 08:38

Are these Engines are being made in India?

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Indranil » 26 Sep 2014 02:45

The current ones on Rustom-1 (Rotax) and Rustom-2(Lycoming) are not. But VRDE is working with a private partener (may be Tech Mahindra) for indigenous ones.

Wonder if we will ever see HALE versions of Rustom-1 and Rustom-2 powered by the Laghu shakti engine. Jet-powered Long-EZs have been built before using an engine with pretty much the same engine thrust. Air intakes will be easier to build with no cockpit in front. And the RCS is reportedly very small.
Frank flew in to Ada, Oklahoma ...
Shortly after, another sheriff arrived and told him that Lockheed Martin were looking for him – he’d cycled the transponder and disappeared from their radar, and they thought he’d crashed. He tested with the radar operator when he was back in the air, and apparently the Cozy Jet (without the spinning propeller) has the target signature of a dove.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Thakur_B » 26 Sep 2014 07:09

indranilroy wrote:Wonder if we will ever see HALE versions of Rustom-1 and Rustom-2 powered by the Laghu shakti engine.



Although not a HALE uav, HAL has taken up development of a very high endurance UAV outside of the Rustom family. A potential candidate for Laghu Shakti ?

http://www.spsmai.com/exclusive/?id=4&q=HAL-scouts-partner-for-new-UAV-family

HAL has made detailed technical stipulations for the family of UAVs it is seeking to partner in. The medium altitude long range UAV will be a multirole platform for intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition and reconnaissance, data relay and communications, scientific and weather forecasting, in addition to disaster management and relief coordination. The MALE UAV will be in the two tonne class, 15 metres long and with a wingspan of 30 metres, capable of deploying a payload of 500 kg, 50 hours endurance and a top speed of 500 km/h.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby rkhanna » 26 Sep 2014 12:02

If you go thru the development process for Netra done by IIT grads, getting that to fly was the easiest part.. integrating the cameras, transmitters etc was the most difficult.



Actually half right. Building the Avionics was the toughest part. That IMO is Ideaforge's true USP. Tata's and L&T are still scrambling and sort of finding their way.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Neshant » 26 Sep 2014 14:52

Karan M wrote:
Video cameras and thermals can be developed by any hobbyist? Wow.
Sagem, Thales, Elbit etc must die of shame then


You can pick up thermal imager for your iPhone on kickstarter developed by hobbyists and video cameras are built from image sensor arrays. Hell you can get a 21 megapixel phone and 300 megapixel cots camera. What is considered hobbyists tech in the US is a few levels of sophistication above what might be hobbyists in India. Regardless, merely having video cameras and thermals are NOT major achievements for a UAV program. That is just hobbyists level technology.


And of course you know that India is not developing any software or C3I for its UAVs right?


Is India developing anything as revolutionary as Argus. C3I is another issue altogether. First come the sensor packages, then come the UAVs then come the C3I integration on a large scale. Not the other way around. Now where are the sensor packages.

navigates around autonomously without operator input, the datalinks provide high bandwidth encrypted data all on their own.. its all hobbyist level stuff.


Of course navigation is hobbyists level stuff with most of the INS and differential augmented GPS purchased lock stock and barrel.
High speed data link might be the only non hobbyist stuff assuming its developed by India and not imported.


Yup. Developing an UAV which flies 18 hrs non stop is easy. Navigates on its own


You are terribly ignorant of what's out there. Small companies in the US have UAVs that fly for as long as 52 hours. Autopilot is old hat that EVERY hobbyist is already doing that for ages with off the shelf stuff. And no doubt off the shelf purchased from overseas is exactly what India is doing but that's no achievement.


Platform is available COTS at something called High COST. Also, not all platforms are available OTS either because platforms and sensor packagecos go together given integration challenges.


For the most part, platforms are not high cost but that is besides the point. Development of the prototype sensor packages does not even require a UAV.

A UAV program should be almost exclusively focused around development of advanced sensor packages. Otherwise its not an R&D program but merely doing what hobbyists do.


This statement stands.

Some of the undersea detection capabilities US is deploying from UAVs are truly revolutionary. Its the stuff other countries can only dream of. That's called a UAV program.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Indranil » 26 Sep 2014 23:02

Thakur_B wrote:Although not a HALE uav, HAL has taken up development of a very high endurance UAV outside of the Rustom family. A potential candidate for Laghu Shakti ?

Well, I can only speculate on that (like I did when the EOI from HAL first came out in April'13)
indranilroy wrote:Few posts back I had posted HAL's EOI for "Co-development and co-production of Unmanned Aerial Systems (UASs)" for 3 categories: MALE, Short-range tactical and mini. I think I know where HAL is trying to go with this(added now: I have no clue. HAL also has a collaboration with BAE). ELBIT systems and HAL have a JV called HALBIT. ELBIT has provided all its UASs for development and production at HAL.

So the MALE requirement: Most probably HAL is making a case for a development of Hermes 900 into a larger drone. Question is what happens to Rustom-2 which fits HAL's intended specs beautifully? It should have been flying soon (even by revised estimates), but recently there has been a tender by ADE to make its wind tunnel model :eek:. Whenever Rustom-2 comes onboard, who is going to produce it? Will it compete with HAL's product?

For the short range tactical UAS: Is HAL seeking a development of the Hermes 450? Question is what happens to Rustom-1? Probably NAL can continue to build it along with Taneja. Nishant is already being assembled by HAL.

And for the mini UAS, looks like they are trying to build something like Skylark-1LE. Are they already selling the same to the Indian Army and paramilitary forces?
From HAL-Connect- Issue 65.
Business from Skylark UAVs for Indian Army and Paramilitary forces is seen as additional business opportunity.


Also any info on the rotary wing UAVs being planned from HAL. From HAL-Connect- Issue 65.
Future helicopter programs of RWRDC include IMRH, Dhruv (civil version) and Rotary Wing UAVs of 10 & 30 Kg.

I don't like this HAL move. I should not be judging when I actually know nothing about it. But prima-facie it does look like another screw-drivergiri, which I have come to believe has added nothing much to HAL's design capabilities. I don't blame them. Afterall, screwdrivergiri makes the most business sense (low-risk, moderate gains). But I don't like it.

HAL could have taken Panchi and Rustom as their choice of UAS and helped in developing them faster. Afterall, HAL has the best flight-testing stuff in the country (according to Saras PT-2's cash report). Instead, they will present direct competitors which will be cheaper (possible better) because after all they are just screw drivered together!

I don't expect HAL to put the Laghu shakti engine into a MALE UAV.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Indranil » 26 Sep 2014 23:18

For me one of the ideal UAV platforms with 2 small jets is the Scaled Composites Proteus (another Rutan plane). Scale it down, remove the cocpit (will make it even more sleek), put in 2 Laghu shaktis and see the wonders it can do.

It already has the high altitude record. It is capable of carrying large and varied payloads (its fuselage and landing gears are designed that way) . Can operate from small airfields and it has a glide ratio of 32:1.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby member_20317 » 27 Sep 2014 10:14

It is a trivia but Boeing Condor should still have the altitude record at 67K+ ft. Proteus in wiki is stated at 63k+ ft.

How would you rate the Condor in terms of endurance (all things being equal except the aerodynamics)

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Thakur_B » 27 Sep 2014 16:06

indranilroy wrote:I don't like this HAL move.


On contrary, I like this HAL move of seizing initiative. They had to compete against Godrej, L&T, Tata for Saras and Rustom manufacturing contracts, which they won on the strength of their technical bids. They know that the private sector is constantly upgrading its capabilities and sooner or later someone capable enough to compete against them both on technical and financial grounds will come up. So instead of doing low reward screwdriver giri for DRDO, they will up the ante' by unveiling complete systems of their own (more operating margin).

I don't expect HAL to put the Laghu shakti engine into a MALE UAV.


Why shouldn't they? They are funding the laghu shakti engine and will manufacture it as well :).

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Indranil » 27 Sep 2014 21:55

Yes, but the counter point can also be: None of the players you mention are integrators. By choosing to stay the course with Rustom, HAL could have postponed their moving up the chain for sometime. And, I feel they won't put in the Laghu Shakti because they want to get to market as quickly as possible.

ravi_g wrote:It is a trivia but Boeing Condor should still have the altitude record at 67K+ ft. Proteus in wiki is stated at 63k+ ft.

How would you rate the Condor in terms of endurance (all things being equal except the aerodynamics)

You are right. But the Proteas airframe is capable of 72K feet. It's 63K+ performance is limited by the engine. Anyways 60K+ itself is high enough. Condor obviously had great endurance, but it is quite unwieldy. It creates great demands on infrastructure too, like hangar space etc.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby srai » 30 Sep 2014 07:22

Panchi, wheeled-version of UAV Nishant, warms up for first flight
SEPTEMBER 18, 2014 Bangalore: Defence scientists are all set to unveil the wheeled-version of India's homegrown unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) Nishant. The UAV named Panchi, means bird, will be capable of taking off and landing from semi-prepared runways, thereby reducing the turnaround time between missions.

Sources in the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) told Express on Wednesday that Panchi has already been transported to the testing facility in Kolar. "We have completed the taxi trials and are readying it for the maiden flight. Panchi is currently undergoing some refinement and the mission readiness team will further asses the UAV before the maiden flight," a scientist working with the project from Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE) told Express. Similar to Nishant UAV, Panchi can be used for reconnaissance, intelligence gathering missions over hostile territory, target designation, surveillance and also to assess damages during natural calamities.

Once operational, Panchi will join the ranks of other proven wheeled UAVs from across the globe, including Searcher, Heron, Global Hawk and Predator, capable of the conventional takeoff and landing. "With the requirement for extended endurance and payload carrying capacity, the focus of launching and recovery of UAVs world over shifted from launcher and parachute systems to conventional take-off and landing techniques," the scientist said.

The existing version of Nishant is launched from a mobile launcher and later recovered using parachute and landing bags. This results in high impact loads on the aircraft systems, necessitating extensive inspections, checks and maintenance activities before launching again.

The mission team had to deal with many challenges while rolling out Panchi and still have some critical points to clear before the first flight. "The handling of a remotely-controlled aircraft during its takeoff and landing procedures are extremely critical exercises. We have to ensure proper alignment of the aircraft to runway in addition to designing a control system with tighter control loops for quick corrections by the onboard system. Precise control of aircraft motion is required to assist the external pilot during various stages of the flight," explained the scientist.

Nishant Status: ADE has already delivered four Nishants with one set of ground support systems have to the Indian Army, which is being operated in the western sector. Another eight Nishant UAVs along with two sets of ground support systems are expected to join the Army fold. Low repair cost, faster software maintenance and round-the-clock availability of technical support are some of the USPs being projected by the DRDO. The Army, on the other hand, wants the DRDO to ensure complete operational efficiency.

DRDO has spent around Rs 60 crore to complete the development of Nishant and also to establish capabilities for taking up future UAV systems. The DRDO is in talks with paramilitary agencies, who have evinced keen interest in the deployment of Nishant.

Image
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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Thakur_B » 30 Sep 2014 19:01

Slybird, Golden Hawk, Pushpak, Black kite and Indian eagle micro UAVs made by ADE-NAL are ready for production.
http://tarmak007.blogspot.in/2014/09/5-home-grown-mavs-ready-for-production.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Tarmak007--AnIndianAerospaceDefenceBlogWithADifferenceByAnanthaKrishnanM+(Tarmak007+--+An+Indian+Aerospace+%26+Defence+Blog+With+A+Difference+By+Anantha+Krishnan+M.)

In my opinion, these are more important than any large recon/armed UAV project in India and hopefully they would be ordered in large numbers.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby sattili » 30 Sep 2014 19:31

^^^^^
Micro UAVs are important to provide intelligence to the field commander or squad leader. These are more local and real time intelligence to act upon by those in field. However MALE and HALE UAVs provide much bigger picture and they are needed at the Division/HQ level. So we need both categories of UAVs.

Btw, did you notice the range of Indian Eagle or Slybird MAV's. I couldn't find many comparable MAVs from all those COTs drone makers that match these birds specs. Good going....

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby member_28108 » 30 Sep 2014 19:39

oops what happened to the rhona dhona of those people who were crying about UAV's being done in the backyard etc and we are not making anything :)

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Surya » 30 Sep 2014 23:20

wish the TOT was with some Indian pvt firms - again all HAL makes me nervous

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Indranil » 30 Sep 2014 23:26

They have their equivalents. Tata definitely has.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Karan M » 30 Sep 2014 23:44

prasannasimha wrote:oops what happened to the rhona dhona of those people who were crying about UAV's being done in the backyard etc and we are not making anything :)


they are too busy to come here, they are out making UCAVs in their garage. :lol: they will come and give us gyaan later.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Karan M » 30 Sep 2014 23:47

Surya wrote:wish the TOT was with some Indian pvt firms - again all HAL makes me nervous


the private firms won't always put up the money for production without firm orders. the prototyping would have had their input.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Thakur_B » 01 Oct 2014 07:01

prasannasimha wrote:oops what happened to the rhona dhona of those people who were crying about UAV's being done in the backyard etc and we are not making anything :)


Busy taping old nokia smartphones (for the ruggedness factor and battery life) to paper planes and RC models and showing they can do it in less time than what it has taken UAV developers.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Shrinivasan » 01 Oct 2014 11:07

Thakur_B wrote:Slybird, Golden Hawk, Pushpak, Black kite and Indian eagle micro UAVs made by ADE-NAL are ready for production.

Hopefully both MOD and MOH would provide large orders and induct these in numbers, IA and CMPF need these yesterday.. these eyes in the sky would lead to significant reduction in casualty of Indian forces...

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby rkhanna » 01 Oct 2014 15:59

The Ideaforge Quadcopter Micro UAV is already deployed with a Number of Forces and Police Units. AFAIK the Army alone has a pending plan to order over 2000+ Micro/ Mini UAV. MHA also has plans for a large order that should come to the market soon.

IMO I prefer a Quadcopter over Fixed wing UAVs for such tactical roles. A hover capability probably adds far more value for Close Target Recc for such sized UAVs. Also Far easier to use and operate in mountains terrain. (launch and recovery). Easier to deploy a QuadCopter off a Gemini as well (think MARCOS).. or in Confined Spaces (Think NSG from Inside a Building)..

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Thakur_B » 01 Oct 2014 19:07

Shrinivasan wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:Slybird, Golden Hawk, Pushpak, Black kite and Indian eagle micro UAVs made by ADE-NAL are ready for production.

Hopefully both MOD and MOH would provide large orders and induct these in numbers, IA and CMPF need these yesterday.. these eyes in the sky would lead to significant reduction in casualty of Indian forces...


It's not just HAL/NAL/ADE in the game, the northern command has recently ordered mini UAVs from Tata.
http://www.financialexpress.com/news/tata-group-also-looking-for-bigger-defence-sector-pie/1221690

Apart from Netra, Slybird, Golden Hawk, Pushpak, Black Kite, Indian Eagle, Nishant, Rustom 1/2 and Panchi, there are some lesser known UAVs such as short ranged Pawan and a 'tactical uav' Gagan under development by ADE.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Indranil » 01 Oct 2014 20:35

rkhanna wrote:The Ideaforge Quadcopter Micro UAV is already deployed with a Number of Forces and Police Units. AFAIK the Army alone has a pending plan to order over 2000+ Micro/ Mini UAV. MHA also has plans for a large order that should come to the market soon.

IMO I prefer a Quadcopter over Fixed wing UAVs for such tactical roles. A hover capability probably adds far more value for Close Target Recc for such sized UAVs. Also Far easier to use and operate in mountains terrain. (launch and recovery). Easier to deploy a QuadCopter off a Gemini as well (think MARCOS).. or in Confined Spaces (Think NSG from Inside a Building)..


Both have their advantages and disadvantages. Netra has a 30 minute endurance, a 2.5 km range and a 20 lac price tag.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Shrinivasan » 01 Oct 2014 21:23

rkhanna wrote:IMO I prefer a Quadcopter over Fixed wing UAVs for such tactical roles. A hover capability probably adds far more value for Close Target Recc for such sized UAVs. Also Far easier to use and operate in mountains terrain. (launch and recovery). Easier to deploy a QuadCopter off a Gemini as well (think MARCOS).. or in Confined Spaces (Think NSG from Inside a Building)..
Netra has a smaller range, lesser speed, lesser endurance and lower flying altitude, also being a slow quadcopter, it is more vulnerable to small arms fire. Each one of these birdies have a specific purpose for it is designed and be used.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Karan M » 02 Oct 2014 02:43

Thakur_B wrote:It's not just HAL/NAL/ADE in the game, the northern command has recently ordered mini UAVs from Tata.
http://www.financialexpress.com/news/tata-group-also-looking-for-bigger-defence-sector-pie/1221690

Apart from Netra, Slybird, Golden Hawk, Pushpak, Black Kite, Indian Eagle, Nishant, Rustom 1/2 and Panchi, there are some lesser known UAVs such as short ranged Pawan and a 'tactical uav' Gagan under development by ADE.


IIRC Pawan was speculation by Vivek R of Defensenews, usual Israel will give us everything stuff.
Gagan is nothing but the Panchi program more or less.

HAL is also kit bashing Israeli handlaunched UAVs.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Thakur_B » 02 Oct 2014 07:46

Karan M wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:It's not just HAL/NAL/ADE in the game, the northern command has recently ordered mini UAVs from Tata.
http://www.financialexpress.com/news/tata-group-also-looking-for-bigger-defence-sector-pie/1221690

Apart from Netra, Slybird, Golden Hawk, Pushpak, Black Kite, Indian Eagle, Nishant, Rustom 1/2 and Panchi, there are some lesser known UAVs such as short ranged Pawan and a 'tactical uav' Gagan under development by ADE.


IIRC Pawan was speculation by Vivek R of Defensenews, usual Israel will give us everything stuff.
Gagan is nothing but the Panchi program more or less.

HAL is also kit bashing Israeli handlaunched UAVs.


Ah well, I was referring from SP's MAI which might be referring to VR's report.

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The ATOL system being developed is based on GAGAN differential GPS offering an accuracy of 10 cm. Also, IAF's orders for Rustom-1 are conditional to ATOL being made available.
http://thumkar.blogspot.in/2014/10/drdo-developing-gagan-dgps-based.html

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Shrinivasan » 02 Oct 2014 08:02

Making UAVs ATOL (Automatic Take Off and Landing) capable is indeed a great development, Panchi sports Assisted Take Off and Landing, in future Rustom-1 MALE will have ATOL. Once the initial kinks are ironed out, almost all UAVs (other than hand held ones) would come with Automatic Take Off and Landing. great going ADE!!!
Edited to correct mistakes.
Last edited by Shrinivasan on 02 Oct 2014 11:04, edited 1 time in total.


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