UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

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ranganathan
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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby ranganathan » 10 Jun 2008 20:41

Any specs on the rustom UAV

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby NRao » 11 Jun 2008 00:32


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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby NRao » 11 Jun 2008 00:37

PaulJI wrote:


From what I can discover, this is a very small company, which has yet to sell anything, & so far, has produced a surprisingly large number of models & slick brochures.

http://tinyurl.com/5a4upa

Since then, it has moved from New York to Maryland, having negotiated local government assistance.

It's good at marketing & fundraising. It remains to be seen if it can build UAVs.



True, but that was in 2006.

For what it is worth:

In 2007 they moved, with the help of the State of MD, to their new location. They also have a deal with the Univ of MD to conduct wind tunnel tests, etc. Their "Lift and propulsion tests" start in Aug, 2008 and actual flight tests at Aberdeen Proving Grounds start in 2009.

Also, for further "what it is worth" note "public" in their URL.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby NRao » 11 Jun 2008 00:39

Just BTW, UAs are used very heavily in the civlian field - Japan being the largest user of such birds, in ........what else but farming.

India has a large spectrum where we can use any technology. UAs market should be larger in the civilian area.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby rakall » 11 Jun 2008 13:33

Raj Malhotra wrote:Drdo is keeping atleast 3 UAV projects close to the chest being:-


Conventional take off Nishant
Rustom with all up weight of 600kg
Rustom with all up weight of 750kg

These projects exist as I talked to the person in charge at the Def Expo.


Yup.. Nishant Mk2 is planned with 10hr endurance.. basically with increased fuel loading (nearly double fuel)..
Nishant is also planned with CTOL and an auto takeoff/landing version..

Rustom planned to have 14hr endurance @6km alt powered by a piston engine.. with satcom link to base -- which means it will not need to be in LOS of base or will not be restricted to within 160km for data relay..

I think the 750kg version Rustom will have 24hr endurance.. or it could well be a whole new UAV

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby sanjaychoudhry » 20 Jun 2008 19:47



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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby hnair » 21 Jun 2008 01:41



I like that second pic where it is floating blissfully using its parachute. So There are orange inflatables protecting the heavier part of the fuselage (engine) as well as the sensor turret. Good for landings in the Baluch desert or the Tibetan plateau, no need for runways. You dont want a cactus up its tailpipe. :twisted:

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Kakarat » 21 Jun 2008 13:09

SUCCESSFUL FLIGHT TESTS OF NISHANT UAV - DRDO
Image
Nishant Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) developed by DRDO for Indian Army was successfully flight tested near Kolar on 20th June 2008. The State of Art UAV is developed by Aeronautical Development Estt (ADE), Bangalore jointly with DEAL, Dehradun; R&DE(E), Pune and ADRDE, Agra.

Nishant is one of the few UAVs in the World in its weight class capable of being catapult launch and recovered by using parachute thus eliminating need for runway as in the case of conventional take off and landing with wheels.

Nishant has completed development Phase and User trials. The present flight tests are Pre Confirmatory Trials before induction into Services.

The flight tests are witnessed by User Representatives. Senior Scientists of DRDO participated in the flight Trials.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Neshant » 20 Jul 2008 12:12

India desparately needs a separate 24 hour operational UAV branch of the army for border patrols both at land and at sea.

----------------------

Armchair pilots striking Afghanistan by remote control

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/07/09/remo ... f=rss_tech

The pilots stay safe and rotate in shifts to prevent fatigue, guiding incredibly lightweight planes that can stay aloft for more than a day at a time. Even after some 30 hours of flying time, upkeep of UAVs is minimal when compared with that of F-16s.

"Sometimes it's a matter of putting gas in it and it goes right back up," says Master Sgt. Aaron Hauser, who oversees daily maintenance of the Predator fleet at Creech. "It's a far simpler aircraft to maintain, and that's the whole point."

The success of this new concept of aerial power has created a huge demand for the aircraft. Every commander wants one, but there aren't nearly enough to go around.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby rkhanna » 22 Jul 2008 13:00

Arnt Herons in the Same Class as the Predator? Last i remember reading the Israelis were trying to arm the Heron with SPIKE-ER like the Predator+Hellfire combo. Maybe we could do the same. We should have a couple of dozen Herons by now.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Arya Sumantra » 05 Aug 2008 21:32

Any Drones under development by DRDO which could do mid-air refuelling to stay up for longer time? Remember reading somewhere that since UAVs are remotely piloted, pilots can easily work in shifts and keep UAV up as long as fuel lasts.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby PaulJI » 05 Aug 2008 23:21

rkhanna wrote:Arnt Herons in the Same Class as the Predator? Last i remember reading the Israelis were trying to arm the Heron with SPIKE-ER like the Predator+Hellfire combo. Maybe we could do the same. We should have a couple of dozen Herons by now.

The Heron TP, otherwise known as Heron 2 or Eitan, is in the same class as Predator, with a maximum take off weight of about 4600kg. The basic Heron (Machatz) is much smaller, maximum weight being about 1150 kg. Despite the names, they're different aircraft.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby A Sharma » 01 Sep 2008 18:43


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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Kakarat » 01 Sep 2008 19:10

A Sharma wrote:Unmanning the sky:ADE


It has a picture of RUSTOM MALE UAV

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Nitesh » 01 Sep 2008 19:15

guys check this

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2008/09/mo ... srael.html
CONCLUDED/ON-GOING CONTRACTS WITH ISRAEL
MEDIUM-RANGE SURFACE TO AIR MISSILE (DRDO/ARMY/NAVY/IAF)
PHALCON AWACS (IAF)
BARAK MISSILE SYSTEM (NAVY)
BARAK-2 MISSILE SYSTEM
SPYDER LLQRM SYSTEM (IAF)
GREENPINE LLT AND BM TRACKING RADAR (ARMY/IAF)
CRYSTAL MAZE STAND-OFF PGM (IAF)
HERON UNMANNED SYSTEM (IAF/NAVY)
PYTHON AAM (NAVY)
ELTA EL/M-2032 FC RADAR FOR SEA HARRIER (NAVY)
EL/M-2083 AEROSTAT RADAR
SEARCHER-II UAV (IAF/ARMY/NAVY)
TAR-21 5.56MM ASSAULT RIFLE (ARMY/SF)
GALIL ASSAULT/SNIPER RIFLE (ARMY/SF)
INDIGENOUS AEW&C ADVISORY AND SUBSYSTEMS (DRDO)
F-INSAS INFANTRY MODERNISATION ADVISORY (DRDO/ARMY)
LAHAT TUBE MUNITION SYSTEM (ARMY)
GLASS COCKPIT KIT FOR HAL DHRUV (IAF)
SUPER DVORA MK-II PATROL BOAT (COAST GUARD)
UPGRADE PKG MIG-21 (IAF)
155MM AMMUNITION155MM
CARGO AMMUNITION
INFANTRY SUPPORT SYSTEMS (NV DEVICES, TRITIUM SIGHT)
LITENING POD FOR MIRAGE 2000/JAGUAR

PROPOSED SYSTEMS UNDER JWG/UNDER EVALUATION
PHALCON AWACS (IAF)
REFUELLING PODS FOR IL-78M
SUBSONIC CRUISE VEHICLE PROGRAMME SOFTWARE
SENSOR/AVIONICS PKG FOR MEDIUM-RANGE AEW&C
155MM 52-CALIBRE AUTONOMOUS & TOWED ARTY (ARMY)
SKYLITE-B MICRO-UAV / I-VIEW UAV (ARMY/SF)
SPIKE MPATGM (ARMY)
DELILAH-II AR-MISSILE W/ LOITER CAPABILITY (IAF)
PYTHON AAM / DERBY AAM (IAF)
SPYDER LLQRM (ARMY)
GABRIEL MK-III ASHM (IAF/NAVY)
DESERT EAGLE/JERICHO HANDGUN (ARMY/SF)
NEGEV MACHINEGUN (ARMY)
MICRO-UZI/UZI M-PISTOL (SF)
UPGRADE PKGS MIRAGE 2000H, MIG-29, TU-142, MI-17 HELO
ANTI-BALLISTIC MISSILE SYSTEM
SUBMERGED LAUNCH VEHICLE
PGMS / BOMB GUIDANCE KITS
UAV/AUV TECHNICAL ADVISORY
MISC. AVIONICS PKGS
[


Elta 2052 is missing from this list :!:

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby K Mehta » 01 Sep 2008 21:01

Kakarat wrote:
A Sharma wrote:Unmanning the sky:ADE


It has a picture of RUSTOM MALE UAV

Yes that is amazing pic. Guys and girls have a look. Somebody put it in imageshack. beauty beauty.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Vick » 01 Sep 2008 22:03

The Rustom UAV seems to have taken inspiration from Rutan's VariEze kit plane.
The other interesting bit is that it doesn't seem to have a satlink and is dependend on LOS and relay for comms.

Added later: In fact, there was a Long EZ LCRA (Light Canard Research Aircraft) shown by NAL at AeroIndia 05. I guess, now we know why and what they were researching with it...

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Sid » 01 Sep 2008 22:38

K Mehta wrote:
Kakarat wrote:
A Sharma wrote:Unmanning the sky:ADE


It has a picture of RUSTOM MALE UAV

Yes that is amazing pic. Guys and girls have a look. Somebody put it in imageshack. beauty beauty.


Just for history update on RUSTOM MALE UAV: -

It is based on LCRA (Light Canard Research Aircraft), a Long-EZ design was built in late 1980s by NAL.
It was built by Hansa's designer, the late Prof. Rustum Damania.

some pics of LCRA at Aero India 2005: -

http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/lcra_static.jpg
http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/lcra_fly.jpg

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby rkhanna » 02 Sep 2008 00:56

Elta 2052 is missing from this list


A number of Items are missing from that list. IMO the list is just a guestimate from day to day news items. Not enough digging.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby tsarkar » 02 Sep 2008 12:29

Israel is developing the 2052 for its version of JSF and was looking for collaboration. However at that point the program was far from mature, represented a technology risk for countries like India, huge development costs with uncertain RoI and sanction prone US components.

Plus the Israelis have a habit of leaving development in a limbo if offered cheaper US stuff. They planned 2032 on their F-16I, however they finally selected the AN/APG-68(V)9 offered as aid.

As my understanding goes, India has no specific interest in 2052 and evaluating all possible radar options via the MRCA contract.

SIPRI incorrectly reported 2052 selected for LCA, however only 2032 & certain components were. Any LCA related procurement would be for a matured radar system rather than an unproven one as a risk mitigation exercise.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Sid » 02 Sep 2008 12:56

tsarkar wrote:Israel is developing the 2052 for its version of JSF and was looking for collaboration. However at that point the program was far from mature, represented a technology risk for countries like India, huge development costs with uncertain RoI and sanction prone US components.

Plus the Israelis have a habit of leaving development in a limbo if offered cheaper US stuff. They planned 2032 on their F-16I, however they finally selected the AN/APG-68(V)9 offered as aid.

As my understanding goes, India has no specific interest in 2052 and evaluating all possible radar options via the MRCA contract.

SIPRI incorrectly reported 2052 selected for LCA, however only 2032 & certain components were. Any LCA related procurement would be for a matured radar system rather than an unproven one as a risk mitigation exercise.


Actually Israelis were forced to accept f-16I with AN/APG-68(V)9 as they claimed its SAR module didn't worked up-to their expectations.

Also there was pressure from Raytheon as selection of 2032 would have meant losses and more competition from Israelis.

P.S. this is ofcourse as per Janes (JDW).

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby PaulJI » 02 Sep 2008 14:20

tsarkar wrote:Plus the Israelis have a habit of leaving development in a limbo if offered cheaper US stuff. They planned 2032 on their F-16I, however they finally selected the AN/APG-68(V)9 offered as aid..

Israeli purchases of US weapons (& nowadays, some Israeli purchases of Israeli-made weapons, but that's recent) are financed by US aid. The USA therefore has considerable say, & sometimes limits what changes the Israelis can make. As for "cheaper" - when you have a limited budget, & a considerable amount of free stuff on offer, you have to prioritise: decide what non-US kit you absolutely must have, & use your limited numbers of Israeli taxpayers shekels to pay for that, & use the US taxpayers dollars for the rest. That's what killed the Lavi - Israel couldn't afford it without US money (it was partly US-funded), & he USA pulled the plug.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Raj Malhotra » 02 Sep 2008 23:46

Seems like a nice COTS choice for UAV.The specifications seem awesome. It seems that its MTOW will be around 1200kg or so?

K Mehta wrote:
Kakarat wrote:
A Sharma wrote:Unmanning the sky:ADE


It has a picture of RUSTOM MALE UAV

Yes that is amazing pic. Guys and girls have a look. Somebody put it in imageshack. beauty beauty.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Singha » 03 Sep 2008 00:04

I went through a book on spy planes recently. in the 80s germany was a superpower in
the UAV space including dornier and mbb fielding many many designs. then they went into a
tailspin. there is photo of stuff like the lakshya launcher.

in US one co name Teledyne ryan had the most fastjet UAVs. seems to have vanished now.
the US also had global hawk type high endurance, high ceiling designs in prototype stage by
the mid 1970s itself...boeing also took part.

I will post some scans later. its bill gunston's spy planes and recce ac book.

so the UAV craze is not a new phenom, NATO had been strongly working on it from 1970s.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Rahul M » 03 Sep 2008 07:48

I remember seeing a pic of a B-2 esque looking drone from daimler benz stable, circa 2001-02.
it was jet powered IIRC.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Vick » 03 Sep 2008 23:50

I read that one of the design features of the LongEZ is that it is nearly impossible to stall because the canards will stall before the main wings, hence the nose will dip down and prevent flow separation over the main wing.

I'm wondering if that is one of the inherent benefits of having canards. Not only do canards give an additional control surface but also expands the aircraft's envelope near stall conditions.

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DEPLOYABLE LOW COST OUTDOOR SURVEILLANCE SYSTEM WITH REMOTE

Postby Rishi » 04 Sep 2008 04:06

DRDO is holding a DARPA style MAV competiton.

http://www.drdo.com/studentcompetition/details.htm

Preliminary design (stage 1):

System configuration details comprising of sensor, data link, observation, data processing mechanism and support system should form part of the design approach paper to be submitted for the stage 1 evaluation. A committee of experts will evaluate the proposals from the point of view of approach to the problem, innovation, originality, technical feasibility etc. Ten best design solutions will be awarded Rs. 50,000/- each.

· Prototype (Stage2):

Suitable prototype based on the stage 1 approach paper, along with detailed design document will have to be submitted for design evaluation and demonstration trials. The best team will be awarded first prize of Rs.3 lacs and second best team will be awarded Rs.2 lacs.


BRFites with an interest in Aerospace and Aeromodelling, here is your chance :)

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby rkhanna » 04 Sep 2008 15:42

They planned 2032 on their F-16I, however they finally selected the AN/APG-68(V)9 offered as aid..


Actually not quiet true. The Israelis hated the APG V-9. They wanted their own radar (And upgraded 032 in its place. The Americans said no way you cannot put foriegn equipment on American planes. You either buy all american or get nothing. The Israelis then had to settle for the V-9 with minor software upgrades to fire Israeli Weapons.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Philip » 04 Sep 2008 16:37

Guys,get a copy of AWST's issue on 50 years of DARPA.A rare peek into the past and future.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... rists.html
Spy satellites could analyse shadows from space to help identify terrorists
Spy satellites could soon be able to identify a person from space, by analysing the way their shadow moves.

By Lucy Cockcroft
Last Updated: 9:42AM BST 04 Sep 2008

A computer programme has been developed to process the image of a shadow cast on the ground, and match it up with its owner.

The technique, called gait analysis, works on the premise that it is extremely difficult to disguise your walking style.

It could be used to monitor known criminals and suspected terrorists, such as Osama Bin Laden, using satellites or spy planes.

There has been an explosion in satellite imagery and technology in recent years, but it is still virtually impossible to recognise people from pictures taken from orbit. Images from high-altitude aircraft and spacecraft only ever the tops of their heads.

Aerial shots alone give little away about a person's movements, but analysing the shadows they cast can - provided their walking pattern is on file.

According to Dr Adrian Stoica of Nasa's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California, which developed the shadow technology, video from space could provide enough data to confirm a suspect's identity.

However, critics say there are doubts that images taken in orbit will be sharp enough to be used as identification. There are also concerns that weather and visibility will affect the quality.

Dr Stoica has created computer software that can seek out and recognise the shadows of individuals in aerial video footage, reports New Scientist magazine.

It isolates moving shadows and uses data on the position of the sun and camera angle to 'correct' the shadows if they are foreshortened or elongated.

Dr Stoica, who presented his research at a security conference in Edinburgh, said the software then applies regular gait analysis to the corrected images.

The technique is still at the earliest stages of development, and it could be many years before it is used by military, police and intelligence services.

The technology is already here.Subs are being tracked by satellites whose sensors watch out for the minute surface trails of a sub's wake.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby rkhanna » 04 Sep 2008 17:05

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... rists.html
Spy satellites could analyse shadows from space to help identify terrorists
Spy satellites could soon be able to identify a person from space, by analysing


On a similar note i once read an article on a Satellite that can map Human Silhouettes that occur from Radio Waves generated from CellPhones/SatPhones. The RadioWaves from the Cellphone,etc engulf the person (who is using it) there bye a nearperfect Exterior map of the Human body is generated.

Each silhouette is unique to a person and when somebody is talking on a Phone the Sats pick it up and the person who is on the phone. The Data is then conveyed to the MQ-1s in the Area armed with HellFires.

Sometime back there was an article about a highranking AQ member who's convoy was bombed in A-Stan. This tech was used in that attack.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby h_nikhil » 04 Sep 2008 18:05

Hello people,

Would anyone tell me something about Pakistan's UAV capabilities, rumour has it that Pak has even more silent drones than the 'Nishant' or 'Heron' built with Chinese help. Also has India taken any step towards designing/launching a UCAV.

Thanks

Hi,
name changed to h_nikhil.
plz read the forum guidelines.
Rahul.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby PaulJI » 04 Sep 2008 18:24

PolyVinyl wrote:Hello people,

Would anyone tell me something about Pakistan's UAV capabilities, rumour has it that Pak has even more silent drones than the 'Nishant' or 'Heron' built with Chinese help. Also has India taken any step towards designing/launching a UCAV.

Thanks

If Pakistan has very advanced Sino-Pakistani UAVs, why has it bought the Italian Falco? I've seen a thread on defence.pk, which has a picture of what was described as an " indigenously manufactured Unmanned Aerial Vehicle System" which had been inducted into service. It's a Falco. No doubt about it. Galileo Avionica had previously announced it had delivered the first Falcos to an undisclosed overseas customer. :rotfl:

I don't know for sure what degree of "indigenous manufacture" there has been, but it's possible the Falcos were supplied in kit form for assembly in Pakistan.

Compare -
http://tinyurl.com/PK-indigenous-UAV

http://tinyurl.com/Falco-UAV

http://tinyurl.com/Falco-Pakistan

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby sum » 04 Sep 2008 21:18

Hi PaulJI,
How good is the Falco compared to contemporary UAVs(esp Indian ones)?

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby ranganathan » 04 Sep 2008 21:51

It is basically like searcher-II but with inferior specs.

searcher-II Falco
Endurance 15 hrs 8-14 hrs
ceiling 6000m 5000m
Payload 100kg 70 kg

I had read somewhere that there are plans to make a larger conventional take off nishant to replace searchers, does anyone know anything about it?

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby PaulJI » 04 Sep 2008 22:49

ranganathan wrote:It is basically like searcher-II but with inferior specs.

Or rather, it's basically like Searcher II but a bit smaller, & with specifications to suit.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby ranganathan » 04 Sep 2008 22:51

Whose specs? Pakis just got the one available to them. Anyway I don't see it as being a big threat given the number of searchers IA operates.

Searcher : Overall Length 5.85 m (19.20 ft) Wingspan 8.55 m (28.10 ft) Max Take-off Weight 426 kg (940 lb) Max Payload Weight 100 kg (220 lb)

Falco: Overall Length 5.25m Wingspan 7.2 m Max Take-off Weight 420 kg Max Payload Weight 70 kg

FYI, IA claims searcher-II endurance of 16 hours.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby PaulJI » 05 Sep 2008 00:35

ranganathan wrote:Whose specs? Pakis just got the one available to them.

You misunderstand: it's a bit smaller, with a lower aspect ratio wing, & the performance differs accordingly. A little faster, but lower endurance.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby ranganathan » 05 Sep 2008 00:51

Yes but it also seems to be heavier with lower payload capability.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby PaulJI » 05 Sep 2008 03:08

ranganathan wrote:Yes but it also seems to be heavier with lower payload capability.

Lighter - though only slightly. IAI says Searcher II has a max T/O weight of 436 kg, & Selex Galileo (still using Galileo Avionica as a trading name) says Falco has a max T/O weight of 420 kg.

Personally, I'd like to see a lot more details of payload vs performance (range, endurance, etc) before making any judgement about that. In some cases I've seen, the maximum quoted payload of an aircraft is at maximum T/O weight & reduced internal fuel, while another, apparently lower-payload aircraft can actually carry any given load further. I'm not saying that is the case here, only that the sparse brochure numbers we have, measured in unspecified conditions, don't tell us enough for us to know for sure how the performance of these two actually differs.


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