UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

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kit
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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby kit » 26 Dec 2017 14:37

nvishal wrote:
brar_w wrote:
So this only buys you the drone? What about training, modifications to support Indian data-links, Indian SATCOM terminals etc, what about the sensor package and logistics? Any offsets involved? Taking a top line and dividing it by the projected number may work with the largely ignorant (on defense matters) MSM, but if you are discussing something in a forum that has a higher level of discourse then it is definitely not adding much imho

Obviously, the support cost is understood. But what I don't understand is that the cost of each drone and it's support cost is half and half(45+45m).

I don't understand why India would put 2 billion into this. Obviously, I do understand that finding out the ORBAT structure on the other side of border is important before war but wouldn't smaller hand throw drones be appropriate for the job?

Heron that crashed in China seems to have had its navigation controls jammed by the chinese.


Just curious..Is there a self destruct button for errant UAVs ? How is the data secured on the her on?

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby nvishal » 26 Dec 2017 18:03

kit wrote:Just curious..Is there a self destruct button for errant UAVs ?

Two things can happen:

1) Datalink is jammed and UAV programming aborts mission and returns home

2) Drone guidance is fooled and it thinks it landed in source country but in fact it landed in enemy country (see capture). This was an old problem and is not there anymore (see ins navigation).

In first case, the enemy state has no choice but to shoot it down(if UAV was spotted). No need for self destruct in second case.

How is the data secured on the her on?

A pilot switches off communication link with ground control when he operates in stealth mode to avoid detection. This is for deep penetration. For short range (10-20km), modern UAVs use their own sign language(Datalink) called line of sight communication. ie., one craft is in sky in source country pointing it's antenna at the UAV in enemy country. Due to curvature of earth among other issues, operational range is limited. Satellite Line of sight is also available(to increase operational range) but it doesn't solve the jamming issue.

A 1-2ft hand launched drone doesn't use active navigation so jamming and detection is not an issue. It flies on pre-determined trajectory.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby ArjunPandit » 26 Dec 2017 20:05

No news of Tapas 201/Rustom 2 since mid of this year.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby kit » 26 Dec 2017 20:13

nvishal wrote:
kit wrote:Just curious..Is there a self destruct button for errant UAVs ?

Two things can happen:

1) Datalink is jammed and UAV programming aborts mission and returns home

2) Drone guidance is fooled and it thinks it landed in source country but in fact it landed in enemy country (see capture). This was an old problem and is not there anymore (see ins navigation).

In first case, the enemy state has no choice but to shoot it down(if UAV was spotted). No need for self destruct in second case.

How is the data secured on the her on?

A pilot switches off communication link with ground control when he operates in stealth mode to avoid detection. This is for deep penetration. For short range (10-20km), modern UAVs use their own sign language(Datalink) called line of sight communication. ie., one craft is in sky in source country pointing it's antenna at the UAV in enemy country. Due to curvature of earth among other issues, operational range is limited. Satellite Line of sight is also available(to increase operational range) but it doesn't solve the jamming issue.

A 1-2ft hand launched drone doesn't use active navigation so jamming and detection is not an issue. It flies on pre-determined trajectory.


thank you. So to be fool proof there has to be some fail safe that will kick in if it detects it has been compromised in some degree., a level of AI should be embedded.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby prasannasimha » 30 Dec 2017 18:08

Chaiwala to Paanwala Rustom 2 /Tapas has done over 11 flights. Work is going on for automated takeoff and landing. Probably user flight qualification will be done by 2020

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Rakesh » 16 Feb 2018 00:05

Link below has video...

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/963686692547854336 ---> Short clip of the 'Daksh Warrior' weapon mounted unmanned ground vehicle in autonomous engagement mode. It has been developed by @DRDO_India's R&DE(E), Pune.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Rakesh » 16 Feb 2018 00:08

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/963679392688943109 ---> And here's the wall-climbing robot developed by @DRDO_India's Centre for Artificial Intelligence & Robotics, Bengaluru.

Image Image

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Rakesh » 16 Feb 2018 06:18

ramana wrote:I don't know what kick these guys get by posting weapons carried by special forces in sensitive areas.

What's with that?
Want to alert enemy about who is armed with what?

nobody needs to know what weapons are carried by special forces and where they are posted.

Do you see SEALS or Royal Marine Commandos pictures and weapons?

And all have big, big names for handle!!!

Strategic Frontier, Shatrujeet whatnot.


All are big egos with small brains.

Now I am concerned as well. Has the Army seen this twitter account? Why is this out in the open? :eek:

I am posting this because this is already out out on twitter. Someone need to advise the Army about this. This is not good.

https://twitter.com/shatrujeet009/statu ... 3424651264 --> See that Black backpack? It's NETRA UAV package. Some exclusive stuff will also be posted by us on UAVs in service.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby vasu raya » 16 Feb 2018 07:43

Rakesh wrote:Link below has video...

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/963686692547854336 ---> Short clip of the 'Daksh Warrior' weapon mounted unmanned ground vehicle in autonomous engagement mode. It has been developed by @DRDO_India's R&DE(E), Pune.


Wouldn't an ATV chassis be more useful? for the terrain its going to be deployed.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Zynda » 22 Feb 2018 14:03

From Ananthakrishna Tweet:

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/966576364596768768
#RustomII successfully completed 10 design validations flights from ATR. It is almost in the process of reaching highest altitude range as well as endurance. Work is also in progress to enhance the capacity of its engine to enhance its payload capacity. @akananth #DRDO

Image

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby sum » 22 Feb 2018 16:20

Saw a report in local Deccan Herald paper about a crashed DRDO drone near Chitradurga. It had a pic too but i couldnt ID the drone from the pic.

Couldnt find link to the article in online edition

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby shiv » 22 Feb 2018 17:16

It looked like a standard aeromodel. It had a cockpit and passenger cabin with painted/model windows

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Vips » 24 Feb 2018 18:30

Army wants over 400 drones, next-generation weapons.

The Indian armed forces over the next decade want over 400 drones, including combat and submarine launched remotely piloted aircraft, as well as directed energy weapons (DEWs) like high-energy lasers and high-powered microwaves capable of destroying enemy targets and even satellites.AOA plans have started to make these systems

Several such military capabilities have been identified in the defence ministry’s new "Technology Perspective and Capability Roadmap-2018" to provide the industry with an overview of the country’s offensive and defensive military requirements up to the late 2020s.

"This roadmap may guide the industry in planning or initiating technology development, partnerships and production arrangements. While pursuing any development or collaboration, the Indian industry should accord due importance to the government’s thrust towards ‘Make in India’," says the 82-page document.

Apart from obvious necessities ranging from next-generation submarines, destroyers and frigates to missiles, infantry weapons, specialized ammunition and CBRN (chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear) defence systems, the document focuses on a wide variety of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) or drones needed by the armed forces.

Drones are major force multipliers in modern-day warfare for real-time surveillance as well as hitting high value enemy targets. The armed forces currently have over 200 drones, the bulk of them imported from Israel for long-range surveillance and precision-targeting. They also have some Israeli Harop "killer” or Kamikaze drones, which act as cruise missiles by exploding into enemy targets and radars.

Even as DRDO works on developing the Ghatak stealth UCAVs (combat drones) under a Rs 2,650 crore project, the roadmap says the Army and Navy will need "more than 30” combat remotely-piloted aircraft (RPA).

"The medium-altitude, long-endurance (MALE) combat RPA should have the capability to fly up to 30,000-feet altitude, with extended satellite communication ranges and endurance of more than 24 hours,” says the document. The drones should be capable of firing missiles at land and maritime targets from over 20km away.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby vasu raya » 24 Feb 2018 22:24

Image

armed Lakshya in perspective, they could be using for pre-planned missions and not targets of opportunity given its endurance. It could be years before those targets, covered by pre-planning, dwindle.

Given its parachute based recovery, they would have to expend the munitions in a mission, they got to be cheaper ones, can they use wire guided ATGMs?


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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby sum » 25 Feb 2018 16:34

Was the landing a bit bumpy with it initially touching down on 1 wheel?

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby prasannasimha » 25 Feb 2018 17:18

^no it just looks that way from the perspective. There is another video out there showing that it was a proper touch down

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby shiv » 25 Feb 2018 18:06

sum wrote:Was the landing a bit bumpy with it initially touching down on 1 wheel?

That was a beautiful landing. Did you notice the smooth flare and nose up just before touchdown? I actually watched with some anxiety as the machine seemed to be descending fast and then - the beautifully timed flare. A perfect touchdown all in all. All aircraft with a large wingspread are hyper-responsive to gusts and the slightest gust can cause a little tilt. It means nothing. If you watch videos of manned commercial airliners landing the same thing is common.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Zynda » 25 Feb 2018 19:10

Any idea if R2's flight today was operated manually or fully automatic? IIRC, R2/Tapas (perhaps R1 itself) was supposed to have fully automatic take-off & landing capabilities.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby srin » 25 Feb 2018 19:58

What's the new engine of the R2 ?

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby vasu raya » 25 Feb 2018 20:30

Wow, the take off was decent with the new engines and they seem to have streamlined the engine fairings as well from the earlier boxy frames. If this is user configuration with two engines and 24 hr endurance, they could someday move to a single engine.

High Himalayas is all gusty, hopefully the FCS takes care of that. Nishant were lost to high wind gusts and low engine power with the Wankel, unable to compensate. This under powered engine theme is across the board, hopefully they plan better on power budgeting.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby srai » 25 Feb 2018 21:09


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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby sum » 25 Feb 2018 21:30

Atleast they showed a drone instead of a IA MBT or a naval ship

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Indranil » 25 Feb 2018 23:48

Not just new engines and fairings, but new propellers too.

Actually this is the 5th of the first 8 prototypes. Rustom 2 as you see it today (even in this 5th prototype) is unlikely to go into production. They are currently redoing the thing. It will take them about 3 years. The redesigned Tapas will weigh in at 2700 kgs. It will use the same engine and LG as was used today, but all the internal structures, fuel tanks etc. is being optimized.

These optimizations will get tested using these 8 prototypes.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Rishi_Tri » 26 Feb 2018 08:54

By the looks of it .. significant change in front profile too.

https://twitter.com/RishiTri76/status/8 ... 9460675584

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Bart S » 26 Feb 2018 10:58

Indranil wrote:Not just new engines and fairings, but new propellers too.


What is the new engine? Is it still a Russian Saturn one or has it been changed to a Western engine?

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Indranil » 26 Feb 2018 11:25

I don't know. But the first prototype was powered by the Rotax engine packaged in a goddamn brick
Image

It was reported that the second prototype was powered by an Astro 170 Hp engine. The fairing was way cooler.
Image

This fifth prototype seems to be having a fairing larger in size than the one above.
Image
It finally looks like the front of an aircraft (look at the fairing peeking over the shoulders. But the coolest thing: the exhaust is above the wing. Now, that is TFTA!

Image

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Yagnasri » 26 Feb 2018 12:55

Wiki Chacha says payload of 3000 Kg. Is it the right figure?

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Indranil » 26 Feb 2018 22:10

The AUW of the UAV is going to be 2700 kgs!

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby vasu raya » 27 Feb 2018 08:18

Back to the Lakshya RPV, it also does the simulation of signatures of other fighters as well as carries a Jammer payload, they should work towards the Miniature Air Laucnhed Decoy (MALD) and the MALD-Jammer variants perhaps using the Nirbhay chassis. Those decoys would help reduce the attrition factor used in calculating the squadron numbers.

The GHATAK scale model, should lend itself to a JASSM kind of munition/pod evolution and probably needs a separate team, this is one of those areas where having multiple agencies working is actually a positive aspect with no issues of limited bandwidth. The development lifecycle is far shorter than for the full blown UCAV.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Singha » 27 Feb 2018 09:10

the smaller cheaper UAVs do not have a automatic return home feature. russian jammers in hymenim airbase were able to force down multiple of these intact and claimed to have even taken over and guided them to a smooth landing(!) rest of them the pantsyrs smashed. atleast one did get through and lob grenades, damaging some a/c
likewise the iranians were able to capture a top secret sentinal drone....

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Rishi_Tri » 27 Feb 2018 21:30

http://www.janes.com/article/78158/indi ... figuration

Some more details.

"The 9.5 m-long UAV, which has a wingspan of 20.6 m, can carry an assortment of payloads to conduct intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR) missions. These include medium- and long-range electrooptic systems, a synthetic aperture radar, electronic and communication intelligence systems, and situational awareness payloads."

"Indian private company Zephyr Aerospace built the airframe for the Rustom-2, while the DRDO’s Defence Electronics Applications Laboratory developed its data link system."

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby ramana » 27 Feb 2018 23:38

Bart S wrote:
Indranil wrote:Not just new engines and fairings, but new propellers too.


What is the new engine? Is it still a Russian Saturn one or has it been changed to a Western engine?



Saturn turbofan is for the Nirbhya cruise missile.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby ramana » 27 Feb 2018 23:45

US AIA report forecasts $30B industry for Unmanned Aircraft Systems by 2036.

https://www.aia-aerospace.org/news/aia- ... rket-2036/

Link to the report here:

https://www.aia-aerospace.org/uasreport2018/

To keep things in perspective.

So DRDO is dong the right thing.

Need a good engine company in India.

Time to rope in Mahindra.

Kirloskars seems to have lost the fire in the belly.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby JayS » 02 Mar 2018 23:57

ADE has put up a tender for WT model of flying wing UAV with wingspan 5.0m, length 4.0m and height 0.631m. Which one might that be..? Any bright ideas..? Ghatak..?

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Zynda » 03 Mar 2018 00:12

They have a program called SWIFT going on. Shiv Aroor posted a scoop of it around a month ago I guess. No photos in open source. Could it be that...

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby JayS » 03 Mar 2018 00:18

We have seen the pictures from IITK previously as well. This is not new. Likely above tender is linked to that.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Zynda » 03 Mar 2018 00:26

Jay, I think most of the pictures are of Ghatak (perhaps IITK is involved with that program as well). I am sure you are aware that Ghatak is an ADA product. I did a quick search and most articles from IITK show no pictures of Swift. Could be wrong...if you find any open source images, please post them.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby JayS » 03 Mar 2018 00:51

SWiFT might be a TD for Ghatak. As per Shiv Aroor, its to be flown in coming year.

Yes, those pictures are from ADA Annual report originally and of Ghatak.

Or it might be something else completely. I dont know.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Indranil » 03 Mar 2018 01:58

JayS wrote:ADE has put up a tender for WT model of flying wing UAV with wingspan 5.0m, length 4.0m and height 0.631m. Which one might that be..? Any bright ideas..? Ghatak..?

I saw this tender and my mind wondered towards Ghatak. But, why would ADE issue the tender instead of ADA if it was Ghatak. Was not sure, so did not post anything.

Another thing that struck me was the size of the WT model. I did not know that we had WT of that size in India!
Rechecked the tender. That is the size of the UAV. So this cannot be Ghatak. which engine: HTFE?


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