UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby JayS » 03 Mar 2018 11:12

Indranil wrote:
JayS wrote:ADE has put up a tender for WT model of flying wing UAV with wingspan 5.0m, length 4.0m and height 0.631m. Which one might that be..? Any bright ideas..? Ghatak..?

I saw this tender and my mind wondered towards Ghatak. But, why would ADE issue the tender instead of ADA if it was Ghatak. Was not sure, so did not post anything.

Another thing that struck me was the size of the WT model. I did not know that we had WT of that size in India!
Rechecked the tender. That is the size of the UAV. So this cannot be Ghatak. which engine: HTFE?


They have not mentioned scaling of WT model. But requirements for WT says min 1m × 1m test section. So they could do with 1:8 or 1:10 size model also, given the dimensions are of final flight article.

Its small for ghatak, thus I also got confused. But as Zynda pointed out, ADE is running SWiFT. Check that Livefist report. Its supposed to be flown in 2018-19. And its Stealthy Wing Test Flight. Its likely that ADE is running a stealthy UAV program (not UCAV) or they have got contract to make a Scaled flying TD for Ghatak which they call SWiFT.

BTW do we know what Ghatak's dimentions are?

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Indranil » 03 Mar 2018 22:28

Very interesting. Yeah a Manik/36MT makes sense for an aircraft of this size. Have to keep an eye out for this.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Indranil » 05 Mar 2018 12:37

Arrgghhh! I had great hopes form this team because of its new director. This is not good news.

Rustom-II takes to skies as mystery over transfer of its project director continues

However, colleagues of Prasad—“scientist-G”who was made project director of the Rustom-II UAV programme of DRDO in 2015—are still curious to know the reason behind Prasad's sudden transfer from the project, which he actually revived. Insiders claim that Prasad's departure was linked to his objection to the lobby, which was pushing for a particular engine for the Rustom-II. Rustom was being developed with an Austrian engine, but a few people in the organisation wanted to replace it with the engine made by an Indian firm, despite the engine's failure to meet the 'technical parameters' to be used in the UAV.


If this is true, I will say this: Rustom II is much more important than desi-aero-deisel-engines.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Indranil » 05 Mar 2018 12:51

DRDO lab up in arms against scientist’s transfer
According to ADE officials, the said scientist, who has been working with the DRDO for 30 years, is being victimised for not agreeing with his seniors who wanted materials for a project to be procured from a particular company, despite the said company not matching the requirements of the project.

On 16 January 2018, on the ground of “public interest”, A.P.V.S. Prasad, “scientist-G”, who was made the project director of the coveted RUSTOM-II UAV programme of the DRDO in 2015, was moved out of the ADE to another DRDO lab in Bangalore without any notice and without taking the permission from his director.

However, official sources said that Prasad was being pressurised to give his permission to procure products for the UAV programme from a company whose product did not match the requirements of the project and when he did not relent, he was transferred.

His goal is to make a MALE UAV. He can't do so with substandard engines!

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby JayS » 05 Mar 2018 13:08

Really sad to see this kind of politics. So now we will see Indian corporate lobbies instead of foreign company lobbies derailing our key projects..??

Though its one side of the story that we know of as of now, it feel its worth sending a tweet to RM in the matter supporting the good Scientist. At least the matter will get better investigation.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Indranil » 06 Mar 2018 02:31

I love it when a program director can talk straight.

1. When asked how much weight can he shed off Rustom, he did not say between 300 and 500 kgs. He said around 240 kgs because I repackaging the LRUs and the structures required in the new package can be made lighter by this much.

2. Who can tell his team that we have overoptimized for one field. Let's reset and start with the good design. We will use the current design to keep testing modules.

3. Goes to the govt. and gets the funds his team needs.

4. Tells the armed forces: don't give me numbers from multiple brochures. I can't fullfill them from one airframe. Nobody who has gone before me could. Tell me what you want. Don't ask me for climbrates of a turboprop and the endurance of aero-diesels.

5. Tells his boss's boss that I can't make an outstanding product with sub-par parts in the name of indigenization.

And he is shunted out. Shame on his boss's bosses. This crap should be called out.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby srai » 06 Mar 2018 03:59

^^^
He is what the Indian institutions need. But it seems too direct of a manner for the establishment. Some tact required, IMO.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Nishn » 08 Mar 2018 05:25

If the engines on the Rustom-2 are an Austrian import, there is a high probability that it is the Austro AE-300. It is an amazing engine, very economical and easy to operate and flies on Jet-A fuel although it is a supercharged piston.
The DA-42 twin, has the Austro AE-300. Take a look at the specs of the aircraft and you should get a good idea of the Rustoms' potential performance envelop.
Flying pistons with LL-100 Avgas is a fuel logistics headache these days, when practically everything in the forces across the board has switched to turbines and Jet-A.
http://www.diamondaircraft.com/aircraft/da42/

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Indranil » 08 Mar 2018 10:46

Yeah the AE-300 are awesome engines.The desi engine development should continue, but not at the price of the whole program itself!

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Neela » 08 Mar 2018 13:03

Who can bring effect these transfers if its not from his Director or RM

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Gyan » 08 Mar 2018 20:05

It's possible that Austrian Engine is only 170hp while the indigenous engine is targeting the requirement of 220hp

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Indranil » 09 Mar 2018 03:51

Technology Focus: Unmanned Ground vehicles

An entire host of vehicles here, including unmanned NAMICA and a futuristic Unmanned Combat Ground Vehicle.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby jaysimha » 12 Mar 2018 10:05

http://cgda.nic.in/adm/circular/MiniUAVs-09032018.pdf
Procurement of qty 200 mini UAVs -IPBGs & Commercial offers
from M/s VEM technologoes Pvt. Ltd. Hyderabad

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby srin » 12 Mar 2018 18:02

^^ Wow - atleast 2 months gone that I can see atleast (from 15-Jan to 6-Mar) in deciding whether to take two bank guarantees for 2.5Cr each as against expectation of one for 5Cr. I wonder why the private guys haven't given up on MoD.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby SaiK » 16 Mar 2018 15:02

Kratos cleared to market Mako ‘unmanned wingman’ internationally

http://www.janes.com/article/78604/krat ... nationally

Undisclosed asia-pacific country

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby brar_w » 18 Mar 2018 03:48

SaiK wrote:Kratos cleared to market Mako ‘unmanned wingman’ internationally

http://www.janes.com/article/78604/krat ... nationally

Undisclosed asia-pacific country



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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby arun » 12 Apr 2018 20:13

Mahindra Defence press release regards joining hands with Aeronautics Ltd of Israel “to offer the maritime version of Orbiter 4 for the Indian Navy”, The Orbiter 4 is a Naval Shipborne UAV:

Mahindra Defence and Aeronautics Limited Israel to Partner for Shipborne UAVs
Chennai, April 11, 2018: Mahindra Defence and Aeronautics of Israel signed a Memorandum of Understanding to partner for Naval Shipborne UAVs. Aeronautics and Mahindra will offer a UAV system which can be launched and recovered from Indian warships.

Aeronautics, a leading manufacturer of Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV), is an Israeli public listed company, and is a key player in the defence domain. Aeronautics is the OEM of Orbiter series of UAVs which has been sold in many countries globally.

The Aeronautics Orbiter 4 is an advanced multi-mission platform with an ability to carry and operate two different payloads simultaneously. With an open architecture, the Orbiter 4 can be specially adjusted to the needs of each mission. Among the different payloads the Orbiter 4 can carry are Maritime patrol radar (MPR), Cellular interception sensor, Satellite communication, Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR), Automatic Identification System (AIS) and advanced electro-optic payload. Orbiter 4 capabilities include maximum endurance of up to 24 hours, maximum take-off weight of 50 Kgs, maximum flight altitude of 18,000 feet while operating different payloads.

Mahindra Defence and Aeronautics have entered into this partnership to offer the maritime version of Orbiter 4 for the Indian Navy. The UAV will carry state of the art sensor payloads as required by Indian Navy. The UAV will be capable of being launched and recovered from small warships that do not have a helicopter deck including small warships which are around 50 m in length. This UAV will be a force multiplier for the Indian Navy.

Mr Amos Mathan, CEO Aeronautics LTD said, “Aeronautics has entered into this partnership to offer the maritime version of Orbiter 4 to Indian Navy. We will work together with Mahindra Defence to manufacture Orbiter UAVs in India. We are ready for transfer of technology and transfer of production line in India. This is a sign of Aeronautics’ commitment to India by offering our newest and most advanced aerial solutions for operations by Indian Navy - one of the best navies in the world.”

Mr SP Shukla, Group President, Aerospace & Defence Sector, Mahindra Group and Chairman, Mahindra Defence, said that “Mahindra group has been supporting Make in India initiative whole heartedly. We always identify high quality products and enter into partnerships that we believe will bring maximum value to our defence forces. We believe that Indian armed forces should get the state of the art products while we develop skill and competency for defence manufacturing indigenously. Specifically, we have entered into this partnership to address a range of possibilities from offsets to manufacturing in India which includes transfer of technology and life time support of the product.”

About Aeronautics LTD

With its UAS’s deployed by over 75 defense, military, and homeland security forces in more than 50 different countries around the world, Aeronautics group provides unmanned aerial solutions for the most advanced Defense Para-military and HLS missions. Integrating surveillance equipment with network information, Aeronautics’ unmanned aerial systems are ideal for land, sea and air operations, and have already accumulated hundreds of thousands of operational flight hours worldwide.

Learn more about Aeronautics Group on www.aeronautics-sys.com

About Mahindra Defence

Mahindra Defence has companies engaged in catering to needs of all three wings of Defence forces – Army, Air Force and Navy. Their product range includes armoured vehicles, underwater warfare equipment, avionics and surveillance equipment’s etc. Mahindra Defence is also poised to enter the field of defence aviation and has interest in building helicopters and aircraft for the armed forces. Through Land Systems units in India and UAE, Mahindra Defence has been supplying customized armoured vehicles to the Indian Army, Para Military Forces and overseas customers. Naval Systems unit based in Pune has been supplying decoy & torpedo launchers, large composite structures for defence applications to the Indian Navy etc. Mahindra Defence is also engaged in Defence Electronics and Avionics through a JV with Telephonics.

Clicky

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Kakarat » 17 Apr 2018 12:13

DRDO Ghatak/AURA and a very confusing Info board from DefExpo18

https://twitter.com/kakarat2001/status/ ... 2750821376

Image

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Thakur_B » 19 Apr 2018 11:44

Looks single engined, maybe a tech demonstrator. Some older designs seemed like twin engine designs. Also, with 4 Kaveris we can make our own vulcan sized UAV to fill the role of mid sized bomber.


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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby JayS » 19 Apr 2018 15:07

Thakur_B wrote:Looks single engined, maybe a tech demonstrator. Some older designs seemed like twin engine designs. Also, with 4 Kaveris we can make our own vulcan sized UAV to fill the role of mid sized bomber.


AURA was always single engined AFAIK.

There is a TD program SWIFT which will precede AURA, looks like. It should fly in coming 1-2yrs.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby srai » 20 Apr 2018 04:39

^^^
Always been single engine ... unless the DefExpo showed a twin-engine design?
Image

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Thakur_B » 21 Apr 2018 07:57

I distinctly remember a layout with two intakes. There was in fact a requirement of take off ability at 11000 ft above sea level and mention of two 2D thrust vector engines. I tried but I can't find the link or images.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Kartik » 01 May 2018 03:14

From AW&ST

British B400 series passive ground surveillance radar for India's borders.

UK Sells Surveillance Radar to India’s Border Service

[The British B400-series passive, electronically scanned micro-Doppler ground surveillance radar can detect small and slow-moving targets. Credit: Blighter Surveillance Systems]
The British B400-series passive, electronically scanned micro-Doppler ground surveillance radar can detect small and slow-moving targets. Credit: Blighter Surveillance Systems

Blighter Surveillance Systems, one of the trio of small UK companies behind the AUDS counterdrone system deployed by the U.S. Army, has sold ground-surveillance radars to India for its Comprehensive Integrated Border Management System (CIBMS) program.

The contract was awarded by system integrator Tata Power following a radar/sensor trial organized by India’s Border Management Department in November and December 2016. The radars will be deployed throughout this year.

The CIBMS program aims to establish multi-tier security at India’s international borders, comprising ground radars, thermal cameras, unattended ground sensors, seismic systems, fences and fence protection systems.

Blighter says its B400-series passive, electronically scanned micro-Doppler ground-surveillance radar can detect small and slow-moving targets in cluttered environments, with a wide elevation beam that also can detect low-flying manned and unmanned aircraft.

—Graham Warwick in Washington

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby nvishal » 01 May 2018 18:07

Image

Armed Predator drone sale Approved for India under Conditions

Indian and US diplomatic officials confirmed to Hindustan Times that the Pentagon’s decision to supply Predator-B drones to Indian military has been conveyed through official channels and that it is now up to the Narendra Modi government to take the final call based on the overall cost of India’s drone programme

Previously, India had requested the possible sale of armed predator drone from the US but the later rejected the request by approving the sale of surveillance version of the drone. Many indian news networks and military watch groups misunderstood this and came to the conclusion that india had placed an order for buying 22 surveillance drones.

After the deal spent months in the cold storage, the americans have approved indias original request for sale of armed predator drones.

Among the condition of sale is for india to sign the Communications Compatibility and Security Agreement (COMCASA) and Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement (BECA). Indian counter strategy will be to replace american communication modules with indian one as we had done earlier with the C17 globemaster purchase. Another issue with operating americans drones is that they will know where we are looking. Cost of operating these network of drones is also an issue expressed by the indian side.

The approval has come after rustom 2's development has gained momentum in the last one year.


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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby srai » 03 May 2018 05:34

As the budget is tight, these armed UCAVs from US (attached with conditions) are a waste of money. Also, where does IAF/IA plan to use these armed drones? Current doctrine doesn't support it.

Keep developing indigenous UAVs/UCAVs. Meanwhile, keep using those Israeli UAVs. Buy a few more in the interim.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby deejay » 03 May 2018 07:25

srai wrote:As the budget is tight, these armed UCAVs from US (attached with conditions) are a waste of money. Also, where does IAF/IA plan to use these armed drones? Current doctrine doesn't support it.

Keep developing indigenous UAVs/UCAVs. Meanwhile, keep using those Israeli UAVs. Buy a few more in the interim.

What is the current doctrine???

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby srai » 03 May 2018 08:25

^^^ No aerial weapon deployment against militants within the Indian borders. That's where armed UAV with hellfire AGM would be more appropriate. Across international borders, they would easily be shot down.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby deejay » 03 May 2018 08:28

srai wrote:^^^ No aerial weapon deployment against militants within the Indian borders. That's where armed UAV with hellfire AGM would be more appropriate. Across international borders, they would easily be shot down.

That is the doctrine??

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby srai » 03 May 2018 08:45

?

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Manish_P » 03 May 2018 10:00

srai wrote:^^^ No aerial weapon deployment against militants within the Indian borders. That's where armed UAV with hellfire AGM would be more appropriate. Across international borders, they would easily be shot down.



Srai ji, wouldn't 'armed UAV with hellfire AGM' be counted as an aerial weapon ?

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Prasad » 03 May 2018 10:14


Looks like kite-flying. US wants us to agree to their acronym-ed agreements to 'enable better coordination' onlee.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby srai » 03 May 2018 10:17

Manish_P wrote:
srai wrote:^^^ No aerial weapon deployment against militants within the Indian borders. That's where armed UAV with hellfire AGM would be more appropriate. Across international borders, they would easily be shot down.



Srai ji, wouldn't 'armed UAV with hellfire AGM' be counted as an aerial weapon ?

Yes, that is what I said ;) GoI won't allow it to be used within Indian borders unless there is a war.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby deejay » 03 May 2018 10:34

What the GOI will allow and not allow is a different matter. Is it our doctrine? Don't make claims if you are not sure.

Also, the use of UCAVs in hostile airspace is little different from what you imagine. I am not bothering with tactics but it can be done. Use of UAVs in hostile airspace is even more difficult but certainly not impossible. However, UCAVs with standoff payload can be effectively utilised.

For the record, I am absolutely against these treaties with US - COMCASA, BECA etc etc. IMHO, it is self amputation of strategic freedoms that we have.

It is worth the wait to develop our systems than to hand over advantages to US for a quick buy.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Austin » 03 May 2018 10:45

As the chief said interview I posted , UAV wont survive in a full scale war short of extreme stealth like Neuron and we dont use armed UAV in COIN ops because of collataral damage , So buying Armed Predator or any other drone for billions is waste of resources , if USD 1 billion goes into indiginous UAV and UCAV program it would do a world of difference.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby darshhan » 03 May 2018 11:38

I have a simple question. If Indian army attacks a paki post using Nag missiles, how will the pakis come to conclusion if it was a ground launched version of nag or a chopper/ucav Helina version. For that matter is it even possible to ascertain the nature and type of munition conclusively after it has succesfully impacted the target, short of painfully parsing the fragments in hope to gain some clue. If this is the case then how does the enemy even know about the launching platform.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Pratyush » 03 May 2018 11:47

A ucav such as reaper or Rustom can have application as stand off anti radiation missile carrier.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby deejay » 03 May 2018 12:01

darshhan wrote:I have a simple question. If Indian army attacks a paki post using Nag missiles, how will the pakis come to conclusion if it was a ground launched version of nag or a chopper/ucav Helina version. For that matter is it even possible to ascertain the nature and type of munition conclusively after it has succesfully impacted the target, short of painfully parsing the fragments in hope to gain some clue. If this is the case then how does the enemy even know about the launching platform.


Many ways - Radars will detect the platform, visual sighting, helicopter noise etc, etc. Radars can also detect ground movement.

A NAG missile may take out a target but assumption that not all personnel at the target may be eliminated is faulty.

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Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby srai » 03 May 2018 12:42

deejay wrote:What the GOI will allow and not allow is a different matter. Is it our doctrine? Don't make claims if you are not sure.

...

Doctrine is not only defined by the armed forces :)


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