UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9535
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Rakesh » 10 Aug 2020 20:10

https://twitter.com/Amitraaz/status/129 ... 13120?s=20 ---> DRDO's radar Absorbing Structural (RAS) Composite for UAV/UCAV.

Technology hsbn incorporated in TAPAS BH-201

* It consists of a sandwich structure made of Kevlar/Carbon fabrics n dielectric fillers.
* Apps of RAS reduces the RCS of aircraft making them difficult to be detected.

https://twitter.com/Amitraaz/status/129 ... 15877?s=20 ---> 15-20 dB reflection loss is achieved in 8-18 GHz at 3 mm thickness.

Image

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9535
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Rakesh » 10 Aug 2020 20:13

https://twitter.com/Amitraaz/status/129 ... 87264?s=20 ---> LRDE's Ku-band based SAR for UAVs. It has a Slant range of 40 km and swath of 12 km for strip mode. Could function in 3 modes:
* Strip map mode (3 metre resolution)
* Spotlight (0.6 metre resolution)
* Ground moving target indication (GMTI) mode

Image

Image

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9535
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Rakesh » 10 Aug 2020 20:14

https://twitter.com/Amitraaz/status/129 ... 98309?s=20 ---> Evolution of the TAPAS BH-201...

Image

MeshaVishwas
BRFite
Posts: 553
Joined: 16 Feb 2019 17:20

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby MeshaVishwas » 11 Aug 2020 20:07

Admiral he has put up a video which is quite nice, pfb:

Vips
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2980
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Vips » 15 Aug 2020 20:32

DRDO-developed anti-drone system deployed near Red Fort on Independence Day.

An anti-drone system developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) was deployed near the Red Fort on Saturday on the occasion of the 74th Independence Day.

The DRDO-developed system can detect and jam micro drones up to 3 kilometres and use laser to bring down a target up to 1-2.5 kilometres
depending on the wattage of laser weapon, officials had earlier said.

It can be an effective counter to increased drone-based activity in the western and northern sectors of the country.

Image

Raghunathgb
BRFite
Posts: 139
Joined: 23 Apr 2019 18:16

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Raghunathgb » 16 Aug 2020 12:52

https://www.onmanorama.com/news/columns ... ssion=true

Rustom Rises

Rustom-II (Tapas), the medium-altitude long-endurance (MALE) unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) from Aeronautical Development Establishment flew in the Satellite Communication (SATCOM) mode for the first time.

rustom-rises
Sources at DRDO headquarters confirm that the UAV also flew with the long range electro optical payload. They claim that these two capabilities are not available on the Heron and Searcher UAVs being operated by the tri-Services now.


The future of this UAV programme is still unclear, with the Services yet to give any firm commitment. Sources say the Tapas team is determined to prove several new capabilities during the next set of trials.

Thakur_B
BRFite
Posts: 1726
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Thakur_B » 16 Aug 2020 13:56

What happened to Rustom-1 and Panchi?

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10087
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby sum » 16 Aug 2020 19:41

he future of this UAV programme is still unclear, with the Services yet to give any firm commitment. Sources say the Tapas team is determined to prove several new capabilities during the next set of trials.]

:|

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9535
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Rakesh » 17 Aug 2020 23:50

For the Fifth Time, Indian Navy Scouts Shipborne Drones
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2020/08 ... rones.html
17 August 2020

jaysimha
BRFite
Posts: 1262
Joined: 20 Dec 2017 14:30

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby jaysimha » 22 Aug 2020 14:44

Webinar on ‘Standardization of UAV Sub-Systems’ from 24 Aug to 27 Aug 2020
By Bureau of Indian Standards, Ministry of Consumer Affairs
https://bis.gov.in/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/TED_replace_21082020.pdf

pushkar.bhat
BRFite
Posts: 409
Joined: 29 Mar 2008 19:27
Location: prêt à monter dans le Arihant
Contact:

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby pushkar.bhat » 25 Aug 2020 14:32

DRDO and MoD were talking of supporting start-up in the area of MicroUAV's and Drones. Do we at least have an alternatives to DJI for cheap. Disposable, desi and field hardened maal is a necessity.

Kakarat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2114
Joined: 26 Jan 2005 13:59

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Kakarat » 07 Sep 2020 00:17


vivek_ahuja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2329
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 16:58

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby vivek_ahuja » 07 Sep 2020 00:22

Quote from the above link

Rustom-II (Tapas), the medium-altitude long-endurance (MALE) unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) from Aeronautical Development Establishment flew in the Satellite Communication (SATCOM) mode for the first time.

Image

Sources at DRDO headquarters confirm that the UAV also flew with the long range electro optical payload. They claim that these two capabilities are not available on the Heron and Searcher UAVs being operated by the tri-Services now.

The future of this UAV programme is still unclear, with the Services yet to give any firm commitment. Sources say the Tapas team is determined to prove several new capabilities during the next set of trials.


I have highlighted the bold part again to emphasize the context within which the homegrown UAVs exist while we hear about armed drones being imported by all three services.

Same story, different thread.

vivek_ahuja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2329
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 16:58

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby vivek_ahuja » 07 Sep 2020 00:24

Such a beautiful-looking UAV, too. Just look how clean and elegant it is. Locally customize-able and upgrade-able.

All being wasted at the altar of imports.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19683
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Karan M » 09 Sep 2020 11:26

I was taken aback at the above points too. The Heron guys would routinely drum up SATCOM capability in every presentation, the world leading EO tech they had etc. And all this while we were apparently operating w/o them and likely using the dedicated LOS datalinks? Or autonomous mode. Just makes one think. The Heron has a provision for a SATCOM antenna too. Wonder what it is being used for.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23284
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby chetak » 10 Sep 2020 07:39

Israel has shared its Heron UAV and Aerostar drone technology with Turkey to manufacture Bayraktar drones, successful in the Syrian and Libyan operations, Russia’s Federal Information Company (FAN) reported on June 12.

The report said that the Tactical and technical traits of Turkish Bayraktar TB1 and Bayraktar TB2 stand between these of Israeli Aerostar and IAI Heron drones. Besides sharing a similar look, the drones have a single turboprop engine with matching Payload and autonomous operation capabilities.



Turkish Bayraktar Drone is ‘Copied’ from Israeli Drones: Russian media





Image

Manish_P
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2412
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Manish_P » 10 Sep 2020 14:54

And thus onwards to Paki land where it will get a coat of green paint, be named Ghori, Abdali, ... and claimed to be a joint venture between brothers Turdogan and Im-the-dim

Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2612
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Prem Kumar » 10 Sep 2020 15:39

vivek_ahuja wrote:Quote from the above link

I have highlighted the bold part again to emphasize the context within which the homegrown UAVs exist while we hear about armed drones being imported by all three services.

Same story, different thread.


Imagine how valuable these would be at the LAC today?

vivek_ahuja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2329
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 16:58

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby vivek_ahuja » 12 Sep 2020 21:24

Karan M wrote:I was taken aback at the above points too. The Heron guys would routinely drum up SATCOM capability in every presentation, the world leading EO tech they had etc. And all this while we were apparently operating w/o them and likely using the dedicated LOS datalinks? Or autonomous mode. Just makes one think. The Heron has a provision for a SATCOM antenna too. Wonder what it is being used for.


I am a firm believer in the phrase: "if you hear hoof-beats, think horse, not zebra".

If the DRDO is openly stating that the Rustom-II is doing things that the Heron and Searcher can't do, then I think we can safely assume that the provision for SATCOM antenna is not being used for anything right now. Perhaps it is awaiting the purchase of the actual equipment? If the latter were true, it would be a scandal on to itself.

The real question is: if the Rustom-II is doing things the imported UAVs are not able to, why is the program not being pushed along by visible and public IAF support? Surely open support from the IAF would really add wind to the sails of the engineers working on the program?

Instead, these engineers get to read the following in the news:
The future of this UAV programme is still unclear, with the Services yet to give any firm commitment.


Why would any young and talented engineer want to work on such a project in these conditions?

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9535
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Rakesh » 16 Sep 2020 22:38

Indian Navy sets sights on drones that can blow up underwater mines
https://www.spansen.com/2020/08/indian- ... mines.html
27 August 2020

Image

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3268
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Rony » 23 Sep 2020 20:33

$100 million per drone . That is why India should develop its own drones.


X-Post

pankajs wrote:https://www.indiatoday.in/india-today-insight/story/eye-on-china-a-3-billion-us-drone-acquisition-heads-for-mod-approval-1724393-2020-09-23
Eye on China: A $3 billion US drone acquisition heads for MoD approval | India Today Insight
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) is preparing to acquire 30 General Atomics MQ-9B Guardian drones from the United States, in a deal valued at approximately $3 billion (Rs 22,000 crore). A recent series of meetings within the MoD have cleared the way for the procurement of an initial lot of six Reaper Medium Altitude Long Endurance drones. These six drones—two each for the army, navy and air force—are to be procured immediately from the US, indicating the urgency of the acquisition.
The MQ-9 can carry electro-optical / infra-red multi-mode radar and multi-mode maritime surveillance radar, laser designators, electronic support measures and various weapons packages.
The MQ-9 is satellite-steered, can float above the target at 45,000 feet and stay on task for 35 hours, using radar and electronic support measures to locate the enemy—it could be anywhere, the Gulf of Aden or the Malacca Straits or in Eastern Ladakh,” a senior defence official says.

Srutayus
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 92
Joined: 29 Aug 2016 05:53

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby Srutayus » 23 Sep 2020 20:59

$100 million per drone. That is why India should develop its own drones.


The $3B would include logistics, support, armament etc. It would not be 100M per drone.
But, India must develop its own drones for several reasons, security, availability, cost etc.

tsarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3222
Joined: 08 May 2006 13:44
Location: mumbai

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby tsarkar » 23 Sep 2020 21:21

vivek_ahuja wrote:Quote from the above link

Rustom-II (Tapas), the medium-altitude long-endurance (MALE) unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) from Aeronautical Development Establishment flew in the Satellite Communication (SATCOM) mode for the first time.

Sources at DRDO headquarters confirm that the UAV also flew with the long range electro optical payload. They claim that these two capabilities are not available on the Heron and Searcher UAVs being operated by the tri-Services now.

I have highlighted the bold part again to emphasize the context within which the homegrown UAVs exist while we hear about armed drones being imported by all three services.


Vivek, there is a difference between design specifications, development specifications and certified specification.

Satcom control of UAV and datalink of EO transmission is currently under design and development. It isnt certified.

There was a Rustom 2 crash as well that is indicative of control issues https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Hk4l-i1LPc

Unless the capabilities move from development stage to a fully certified stage, considering induction is not meaningful.

vivek_ahuja wrote:The real question is: if the Rustom-II is doing things the imported UAVs are not able to, why is the program not being pushed along by visible and public IAF support? Surely open support from the IAF would really add wind to the sails of the engineers working on the program?

It is not yet doing things. It is trying and learning to do things.

Just because a person is studying engineering doesnt qualify him for a job offer. Only when he submits his marksheet and degree certificate is his job offer confirmed.

IA is supportive of Rustom

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... s?from=mdr

Similarly, there has not been keen interest by the army on a proposal to acquire 10 of the armed drones as it is committed to an indigenous project by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO). The army has pledged to procure over 80 of the Rustom 2 drones that are under development and are being weaponised by the DRDO.


80 is more than total number of Herons in all three services.

BTW Satcom control is enabled by Navy GSAT-7 Rukmini and IAF GSAT-7A.
Last edited by tsarkar on 23 Sep 2020 21:33, edited 2 times in total.

tsarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3222
Joined: 08 May 2006 13:44
Location: mumbai

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby tsarkar » 23 Sep 2020 21:25

Karan M wrote:I was taken aback at the above points too. The Heron guys would routinely drum up SATCOM capability in every presentation, the world leading EO tech they had etc. And all this while we were apparently operating w/o them and likely using the dedicated LOS datalinks? Or autonomous mode. Just makes one think. The Heron has a provision for a SATCOM antenna too. Wonder what it is being used for.


Image

The SATCOM comes in a forward dome that none of our early UAV's have.

We didnt buy the capability because we didnt have satellites then like GSAT-7 and GSAT-7A. No foreign satellite had orbital coverage over India's areas of interest (China, Pakistan). Even if they had, they were not willing to share them with us.

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9075
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby brar_w » 23 Sep 2020 21:51

Srutayus wrote:
$100 million per drone. That is why India should develop its own drones.


The $3B would include logistics, support, armament etc. It would not be 100M per drone.


As the Predator/Reaper program prepares to sunset, GA-ASI is laying off hundreds of people so there is a possibility to negotiate aggressively if this is a DCS.

nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7987
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby nachiket » 24 Sep 2020 03:30

Let me get this straight, we have $3B available to spend on these while the LCH and Tejas contracts are still in limbo?

abhik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3090
Joined: 02 Feb 2009 17:42

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby abhik » 24 Sep 2020 04:06

^^^
It's just hafta payment, the production line has run out of US orders (they are looking to move to a more survivable platform) - so they have loosened the export restrictions and are pushing it to as many "allies" as possible to keek the line humming for some more time. IIRC it was posted here some time back the that the airforce (or was it IA) was not really interested since it woul not bring much to the table in our context.

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9075
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby brar_w » 24 Sep 2020 04:32

abhik wrote:It's just hafta payment, the production line has run out of US orders (they are looking to move to a more survivable platform) - so they have loosened the export restrictions and are pushing it to as many


The "loosening" of export restrictions has been a long standing policy position of the current political part in power at the WH and the Senate, long before any decision was taken on the MQ-Next program. The entire Obama era approach of treating UAV's and UCAV's was widely unsuccessful and served no real benefit other than to let cheap Chinese knockoffs from establishing a hold in traditional US markets. Those folks waited in line for the FMS restrictions to be listed for the products they always wanted..but they gave up and bought Chinese instead.

As far as roles and capabilities, there are plenty of area where these aircraft can continue to play a crucial role. BAMS is one mission where they will be critical. Same with long range long loiter ISR orbits in low to moderate threat environments. They will continue to serve these roles even in US service for years if not decades. Same with EW. Much easier to risk these in a conflict than a manned platform. Strap on light to medium weight stand/off munitions and these long loiter ISR aircraft can serve dual purpose.

High end survivability is one aspect of the need from a UAV/UCAV. No one, not even the US, can afford to buy the same amount of "survivability" across the entire MALE and HALE fleet. This is why you have the RQ-4, MQ-4C Triton and the RQ-180 co-exist, NOW and well into the future. Same will be the case with the MQ-Next which will continue to co-exist with the lower end predator/reaper fleet for years to decades. Same applies to the US Army's Gray Eagle fleet which is being upgraded so that it can serve till the late 2030's if not later. MQ-Next is only going to begin replacing the top layer of the USAF MQ-9 fleet starting late 2020's and would be lucky to have 50% fleet penetration by late 2030's.
Last edited by brar_w on 24 Sep 2020 06:22, edited 1 time in total.

chola
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4855
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby chola » 24 Sep 2020 06:19

nachiket wrote:Let me get this straight, we have $3B available to spend on these while the LCH and Tejas contracts are still in limbo?


<SIGH> This has always been the case no? The pocket book opens wider for the brand name imported stuff. At one point we were seriously thinking of $27B for MMRCA's 126 phoren fighters. This is peanuts in comparision.

tsarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3222
Joined: 08 May 2006 13:44
Location: mumbai

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby tsarkar » 24 Sep 2020 16:16

nachiket wrote:Let me get this straight, we have $3B available to spend on these while the LCH and Tejas contracts are still in limbo?

abhik wrote:^^^It's just hafta payment

The sooner people realise this the better. Until we get a PM who disconnects foreign policy from military industrialization, this will continue. There were high expectations from BJP/NDA in 2014 but those expectations were not yet been met. Having said that I am still hopeful given how Article 370 was repealed in 2019, the segregation of military industrialization from foreign policy may happen by 2024

abhik wrote:IIRC it was posted here some time back the that the airforce (or was it IA) was not really interested since it woul not bring much to the table in our context.

I posted the news link a few posts above yours.

V_Raman
BRFite
Posts: 779
Joined: 04 Sep 2008 22:25

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby V_Raman » 24 Sep 2020 16:21

Such decoupling is not possible for non-P5 states. That is the definition for P5. Is India at the cusp of having enough mic to fight a war on its own for its objectives? Till we get there - no addition to p5 and no decoupling. It’s a dance with P5 and taking forward steps. Asymmetric steps are important too. We did with missiles. Now with fighter jet - getting there. Lot more areas remaining and goal posts keep moving. Engine tech is critical as well. We have made enough progress to break thru almost all alphabet soup treaties - barring nsg - let’s see how we break that Chinese check - our second big test. We then have the pak check to solve. After that - neighborhood leader check. The economy check. Then mic independence check. And no new checks hopefully. We invented chess - so we continue to stay in the game...

darshhan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2590
Joined: 12 Dec 2008 11:52

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby darshhan » 25 Sep 2020 00:07

abhik wrote:^^^
It's just hafta payment, the production line has run out of US orders (they are looking to move to a more survivable platform) - so they have loosened the export restrictions and are pushing it to as many "allies" as possible to keek the line humming for some more time. IIRC it was posted here some time back the that the airforce (or was it IA) was not really interested since it woul not bring much to the table in our context.


Without doubt. Maybe they still have a use in maritime domain as a complementary tool to p-8s. But that is about it. This is too steep a price to pay for UAV surveillance capability. If we put our mind to it, we could easily deploy a rustom/tapas based uav by 2021 year end. Maybe it would be just 80% of the American solution, but it would be our own and hence easily scalable as well as maintainable. But then I am not surprised. We buy a tank mine plough which costs more than a Mercedes sedan as per the signed deal. So anything is possible as far as MOD procurement is concerned.

darshhan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2590
Joined: 12 Dec 2008 11:52

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby darshhan » 25 Sep 2020 00:24

Can anyone explain why a UAV like Tapas has to be put through such a long testing regimen?

I am able to understand that a manned fighter like tejas was required to undergo testing period that was longer than a decade. After all safety of the pilot was of utmost importance, hence the rigorous checks. This also resulted in human machine interface that had to to be tested. Additionally since tejas is a fighter aircraft, testing for its complete kinematic performance including maneuverability etc was bound to take lot of time.

Now tapas is very much an unmanned aircraft. There is no man inside it. Testing can be done much aggressively. If required one can even test it in operational roles. Plus as a result of being unmanned, no human machine interface has to be tested or developed. That time is also saved. Lastly it is very much a low speed subsonic aircraft with extremely limited aerodynamic envelope. So why Tapas testing is taking so much time?

m_saini
BRFite
Posts: 257
Joined: 23 May 2020 20:25

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby m_saini » 25 Sep 2020 01:38

Is it really a hafta payment? 'cause we've been providing haftas to the Russians, Americans and recently the French.

How many sugardaddies do we really need?

fanne
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3512
Joined: 11 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby fanne » 25 Sep 2020 02:21

Naah, the board is full of Excelwalas, engineers past their abilty to engineer anything and rudaalis and I am more patriotic + intelligent than anyone else....
We needed a UCAV 5 years ago - they would have been wonderful in JK where we had air superiority and we could see a terrorist infiltrating/exfiltrating. Many times it needed SF to be boarded and an ambushed set up (many time there was not enough time), and ambush resulting in SF deaths. Few UCAVs constantly patrolling would have certainly dispatched many of these.
We need one now - In Tibet. PLAA and PLAAF have fielded an army of UAVs/UCAVS. These UCAVS can fly from Hotan as well as from high altitude airfield and remain on station for long. The war can start this October or if that opportunity is missed, limited action this winter and we start the same thing again next summer. We are in it for many years. But we would have our own domestic UCAV (and nothing else), that has not yet been fully developed (one crashed recently while in development, which is ok in dev phase), is many years from being certified flightworthy. What to say about sensor package, weapon package (we have no hellfire, paveway, JDAM equvalent), ground station, doctrine, success (is it easy to detect or Jam?)..we are years from it. But hey who cares. I read aerodynamics is school and I see lots of paper on Tapas, so that is what I need, or guess what everyone is sold out if they are buying foreign weapon, why cant they buy desi? (who cares, I am too lazy to really research if anything is available, think about timeline, needs etc.).
Sorry if I sound offending, that was not the intent. But basic level of understanding is expected

fanne
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3512
Joined: 11 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby fanne » 25 Sep 2020 02:29

These 30 UCAV will do wonders in Tibet, in JK, in Sea, Indian ocean ...Now you have ability to surveil for 10-14 hours and attack as well, that too cheaply. It can be used in non war times - attacking terrorists, pirates, smugglers on sea routes etc etc. It will be worth the money. A good example is if Jags were to retire tomorrow, this plane would never see action (and in that sense was it worth the money? It was because no one would have known is 1977/78 taht there would be no war where we would need jags), unlike Jags, these UCAVS will see action, war or no war.

nam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3952
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby nam » 25 Sep 2020 03:04

UAV is one area, where our private sector can really dive in hard. Not just surveillance, even transportation, land based armed vehicle etc. There are lots.

The standoff with the Chinis is crying out for a transportation UAV, to drop supplies on to the hilltop. I hardly see such interest and innovation in our private sector.

Doesn't help GoI attitude either. It wouldn't be difficult for L&T or Tata or Adani to tie up with a foreign vendor and built a transportation UAV.

DRDO cannot do everything.

tsarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3222
Joined: 08 May 2006 13:44
Location: mumbai

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby tsarkar » 25 Sep 2020 03:31

darshhan wrote:Can anyone explain why a UAV like Tapas has to be put through such a long testing regimen?

Building autonomous and teleoperated fight control. Its much more complex than the flight control of a Tejas.

There are additional practical challenges as well. I'm sure you would have experienced mobile call drops or slow connections. Imagine trying to control and fly a twin engined aircraft remotely using a connection like that.

V_Raman
BRFite
Posts: 779
Joined: 04 Sep 2008 22:25

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby V_Raman » 25 Sep 2020 03:45

I cannot accept/believe that our private players deliver UAVs in this day and age - there are so many companies and OSS available as well for this.

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9075
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Postby brar_w » 25 Sep 2020 06:21

darshhan wrote:Can anyone explain why a UAV like Tapas has to be put through such a long testing regimen?

I am able to understand that a manned fighter like tejas was required to undergo testing period that was longer than a decade.


You can't skimp out on rigorous testing and certification. While you certainly can, and operators often do, relax safety and crash-worthiness requirements from these aircraft, and reduce some redundancy needs, you still need the mission system and integrated systems to function as desired. UAV's serve a requirement and fill a mission need. If they are unreliable, or can't do it properly then that need goes unmet. Overall, the system needs to work and be reliable in a myriad of situations that the operator intends on putting these systems through. That takes extensive testing and certification especially for long endurance systems. For reference, look at the extended operational-testing period the US Navy is putting the MQ-45 Triton through. 3 phase operational testing (dubbed the "crawl, walk run phases) that will take about 3.5 years to complete. This follows years years of development and developmental testing. And for a platfrom that is based on a proven and operational design (Global hawk). Why such a long OT period? This aircraft is expected to operate for extended periods when no other naval-aviation asset will be available. It completely takes over an ISR mission need that was going unmet (persistent broad area maritime surveillance). If it doesn't perform as desired, there is no other asset that can come in and take over. Same can also be said for land based ISR systems in the MALE category. If the operator (IAF and IN in this case) is going to offload missions to them, then they better make sure that they will be capable of performing those missions when called upon. UAV's of this class also have a unique O&S structure. They don't fly training sorties or flex when it comes to ops tempo. They fly when needed. So they must be capable of very very high readiness rates and pull sorties that measure in the double digit hours and then quickly turn around and fly again. This brings its own system testing and certification challenges unique to these types.


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BALAR025, sooraj, srin, Vips and 32 guests