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Radar - Specs & Discussions

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Kersi D
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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Kersi D » 22 Jun 2015 21:18

Can someone tell me the location of the erstwhile THD 1955 radars ?

There are some 10 - 15 installations. I am aware of 2 - 3 locations. Preferably contact me on k e r s i k d o t i w a l l a a t r e d i f f m a i l d o t c o m

K

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Karan M » 22 Jun 2015 22:38

Erstwhile? They are still being used..

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Karan M » 22 Jun 2015 22:38

Kersi D wrote:Maybe be slightly OT

One unanswered question

DOES INDIA HAVE / HAD SA 10 or SA 12 SAM SYSTEM ?

Many years ago i was told by a reliable source (reliable according to me) that we have some 7-8 system for guarding Mumbai (2 systems), Dilli, Vizag, Hyderabad, ????

Sometime back i had read that we do not have any sch system. However we got the ST 68U EW radars. Since these radars are "close associated" with the SA 10/12 SAMs it was thought that we have the SA 10/12 SAM systems.

I am still as confused, as ever

K


Missiles and Munitions thread please. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby rohitvats » 23 Jun 2015 08:31

Karan M wrote:
2. Medium Power Radars - This is the segment which Israeli EL/M-2084 radars are presently filling by replacing TRS-2215D and our Indian derivative of the same, PSM-33Mk2. 19 of these are on order from Israel and we know DRDO is working on a MPR project of the same name.


Yes. I think the TRS and PSM33 will remain around too for a while. Did you come across any data stating they would be retired

<SNIP>


From Sainik Samachar (http://sainiksamachar.nic.in/englisharchives/2011/jun16-11/h5.htm):

In the background of Commanders Conference at Headquarters South Western Air Command (SWAC Air Chief Marshal PV Naik, Chief of Air Staff inducted the first medium power radar (MPR), named Arudhra, at Air Force station, Naliya. The Air Chief was accompanied by Air Marshal AK Gogoi, AOC-in-C, South Western Air Command.

The Arudhra radar has been inducted to replace the ageing TRS-2215 and PSM-33 radars on the inventory of IAF. This radar is the state-of-the-art technology capable of detecting targets at ranges greater than 300 kilometres and it is an important component in IAF plans to achieve net-centric operations.

The radar would strengthen air defence in the Saurashtra-Kutch region. Arudhra has been inducted in a signal unit which has a rich historical legacy. The unit was raised in October 1966 in Jodhpur and moved to Naliya in June 1988. At Naliya, the unit has played a pivotal role in air defence of Saurashtra-Kutch region.

The event was attended by a large number of Air Force officers from Air Headquarters, Headquarters South Western Air Command and the representatives of original equipment manufacturer — ELTA Systems Ltd, Israel. The IAF fighters conducted a fly-past to mark the occasion.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Kersi D » 23 Jun 2015 12:47

Karan M wrote:Erstwhile? They are still being used..


Opps !!! I meant legacy.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Kersi D » 25 Jun 2015 10:08

rohitvats wrote:Would anyone know whether each SA-3 SAM squadron operated by IAF has its own P-12/18 or P-15/19 surveillance radar?

We know that IAF had bought P-12/18 and P-15/19 radars from USSR (as well as P-40) - where these bought as stand-alone radars as part of wider surveillance network? And are SA-3 squadrons fed surveillance data from these stand-alone radars and others like TRS-2215/PSM-Mk2 but themselves don't have dedicated surveillance radars at Squadron level? Thanks.


At a couple of airbases which have a SA 3 squadron, I have seen P 12 / P 18 radars. At some airbases I seen SA 3 launchers but could not notice if any P 12 / P 18 were nearby !! No idea if the P 12/ P 18 radars are on "on-line talking terms" with SA 3 battery.
K

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Neshant » 25 Jun 2015 13:39

vasu raya wrote:Wonder what the fish school detection entails with the desi AEW&C system


Laser radar, as opposed to conventional radar, has the ability to penetrate some distance into water.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby srai » 25 Jun 2015 14:14

Kersi D wrote:Can someone tell me the location of the erstwhile THD 1955 radars ?

There are some 10 - 15 installations. I am aware of 2 - 3 locations. Preferably contact me on k e r s i k d o t i w a l l a a t r e d i f f m a i l d o t c o m

K



The Indian SAM Network
...
EW ASSETS

Fifty four EW sites have been identified in India. The primary assets are THD-1955, P-12/18 (SPOON REST), and 36D6 (TIN SHIELD) radars. Thirteen THD-1955 radars arrayed primarily along the border region from Pakistan to Myanmar provide a significant amount of EW coverage. EW coverage is enhanced by fourteen 36D6 radar sites, arrayed primarily along the border with Pakistan. The 36D6 is significant as it can provide both target track data to SAM batteries as well as GCI support for Russian-origin fighter aircraft such as the MiG-29 (FULCRUM) or Su-30MKI (FLANKER-H). P-12/18 radar sites are scattered throughout the region, as are indigenous Indra-II radar units. The net result is an EW network that is heavily oriented towards potential threats.

The following image depicts the locations of identified Indian EW facilities. Dark blue diamonds represent basic EW sites, typically manned by P-12/18 or Indra-II radar systems, while light blue diamonds represent THD-1955 radar facilities. Blue circles represent 36D6 radar facilities. The range rings given for the 36D6 sites represent the 165 km acquisition range against a typical fighter-size target. Each radar system is capable of target detection at greater ranges depending on the target RCS and altitude, with the THD-1955 typically employing a range of 400 km.
Image

The following image depicts a typical THD-1955 site. These large radars are sited atop dedicated structures. This site is located south of Shillong in eastern India.
Image
...

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Karan M » 27 Jun 2015 23:33

Just a point. We can expect another huge bunch of Indian made items entering service in next few years.

Key programs to watch:

Ashwini - 4D, 200km class LLTR for IAF, in trials. IAF wants some 19+ units
Arudhra - 4D, 300Km+ class MPR for IAF, in trials, IAF indented for 8, Astra Microwave notes it has some 40-50 orders likely

MMSR - 3D AESA radar for IA, in prototyping
AFCR - 3D radar for IA's fire control units, 60+ units required, will likely replace the SFM and Flyatcher units

IMO, the MMSR and AFCR will be very similar and probably be variants of same architecture. High resolution, compact 3D multi function radars.

3D AESA for IAC-2
UHF AESA for BMD Phase 2
LLTR-2 for BMD Phase 2
AEW&C radar

Time was we'd import all of them, but equivalents are available locally.

Other critical programs - K Band SAR for UAVs, Uttam AESA, FOPEN and TWIR, GPRs. First is fairly advanced and working prototype in trials. Uttam is on rooftop testing (ie A2A mode).

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Kersi D » 28 Jun 2015 23:04

srai wrote:
Kersi D wrote:Can someone tell me the location of the erstwhile THD 1955 radars ?

There are some 10 - 15 installations. I am aware of 2 - 3 locations. Preferably contact me on k e r s i k d o t i w a l l a a t r e d i f f m a i l d o t c o m

K



The Indian SAM Network
...
EW ASSETS

Fifty four EW sites have been identified in India. The primary assets are THD-1955, P-12/18 (SPOON REST), and 36D6 (TIN SHIELD) radars. Thirteen THD-1955 radars arrayed primarily along the border region from Pakistan to Myanmar provide a significant amount of EW coverage. EW coverage is enhanced by fourteen 36D6 radar sites, arrayed primarily along the border with Pakistan. The 36D6 is significant as it can provide both target track data to SAM batteries as well as GCI support for Russian-origin fighter aircraft such as the MiG-29 (FULCRUM) or Su-30MKI (FLANKER-H). P-12/18 radar sites are scattered throughout the region, as are indigenous Indra-II radar units. The net result is an EW network that is heavily oriented towards potential threats.

The following image depicts the locations of identified Indian EW facilities. Dark blue diamonds represent basic EW sites, typically manned by P-12/18 or Indra-II radar systems, while light blue diamonds represent THD-1955 radar facilities. Blue circles represent 36D6 radar facilities. The range rings given for the 36D6 sites represent the 165 km acquisition range against a typical fighter-size target. Each radar system is capable of target detection at greater ranges depending on the target RCS and altitude, with the THD-1955 typically employing a range of 400 km.
Image

The following image depicts a typical THD-1955 site. These large radars are sited atop dedicated structures. This site is located south of Shillong in eastern India.
Image
...



I have studied this site and the maps in detail. They do not gv the exact loactions. Like it may say that tehre is a THD 1955 at Nasik, but where in/around Nasik

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Kersi D » 28 Jun 2015 23:06

Karan M wrote:Just a point. We can expect another huge bunch of Indian made items entering service in next few years.

Key programs to watch:

Ashwini - 4D, 200km class LLTR for IAF, in trials. IAF wants some 19+ units
Arudhra - 4D, 300Km+ class MPR for IAF, in trials, IAF indented for 8, Astra Microwave notes it has some 40-50 orders likely

MMSR - 3D AESA radar for IA, in prototyping
AFCR - 3D radar for IA's fire control units, 60+ units required, will likely replace the SFM and Flyatcher units

IMO, the MMSR and AFCR will be very similar and probably be variants of same architecture. High resolution, compact 3D multi function radars.

3D AESA for IAC-2
UHF AESA for BMD Phase 2
LLTR-2 for BMD Phase 2
AEW&C radar

Time was we'd import all of them, but equivalents are available locally.

Other critical programs - K Band SAR for UAVs, Uttam AESA, FOPEN and TWIR, GPRs. First is fairly advanced and working prototype in trials. Uttam is on rooftop testing (ie A2A mode).


What about the CAR, Revathi and Rohini radars ? They are also in use.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Karan M » 28 Jun 2015 23:28

I am referring to only new radar programs not ones in production.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby srin » 29 Jun 2015 10:45

Is this for our AESA radars ? http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/bangalore/a-gallium-nitride-fab-in-the-offing/article7362861.ece

A new national fab for gallium nitride, a vital futuristic but hard to procure semiconductor material, is in the offing, spearheaded by Indian Institute of Science.

The fab will enable creation of reliable, India-specific integrated circuits for electronic devices that go into civil and strategic uses, including by departments of Space, Atomic Energy and Defence, according to key scientists involved in the Rs. 30-crore, six-year-old project to develop the material.

IISc’s Centre for Nanoscience & Engineering may house pilot activities while a separate location along with an industry partner is being considered. “It can be a game changer for the country. We won’t have to depend on others for making the devices,” material scientist R. Muralidharan, who was until April Director of the DRDO’s Solid State Physics Laboratory, New Delhi, told The Hindu .

R. Chidambaram, Principal Scientific Adviser to Govt. of India, chaired the session on ‘Nano science and engineering’ at the IISc alumni meet.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Karan M » 29 Jun 2015 10:59

Srin, thanks a ton for this news. This is great stuff. We have made huge strides in overall design & development of AESA radars, and the individual systems that go into them, plus the critical software. GaN is the next step required to keep those designs current in the years to come. Basically, you can make the AESAs more compact and more powerful. Eg a fighter AESA can come out with anywhere from 20% to 40% improvements in range or even more depending on specific cases. Huge long range radars can be made truck mobile. This is a very big step if its implemented and funded.
Many such proposals in UPA times went nowhere as St Antony did nothing and had no clue of the issues involved and Chiddu and gang made sure every Rs was scraped up and used for stuff like NREGA. Now hope this works out.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Karan M » 29 Jun 2015 11:38

BTW DRDO's project India AWACs envisages the use of L Band GaN TRM modules. They released their design to vendors to productionize.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Aditya_V » 29 Jun 2015 11:45

Nrega is a strawman argument, it hardly costed anything as earlier food for work schemes were scrapped in 2004. It was the personal loot costed the country.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Karan M » 29 Jun 2015 11:54

Aditya_V wrote:Nrega is a strawman argument, it hardly costed anything as earlier food for work schemes were scrapped in 2004. It was the personal loot costed the country.


Hardly a strawman as it all happens together. Loot may have gone on unabated, but with a slowing down economy, the Fin Min needed funds so it went around taking back every Rs everywhere. If you look at the PR of all the state owned DPSUs throughout UPA 2 in particular, there is a recurring pattern. Capex delayed, R&D investment at high levels planned pushed out, next thing, some DPSU heads handing over a cheque of "money returned" to MOD. DRDO et al basically got around by using funds "left over" from whichever programs were closed to progress the other ones.

Its zimble onlee. If you grow the pie big enough (as PRC does), then you can be corrupt, invest in infra, do crazy schemes and all go on together. What UPA did was inexcusable even by the Indian metric, not only were they venal and third rate. They were also lazy and shambolic and the entire economy slowed down. And they kept going with the crackpot schemes so they could get back in power. In short the same sh!te that got us where we are today. Starting off more industrialized than most Asian countries. Now they are ahead in several areas.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby rohitvats » 29 Jun 2015 12:08

Kersi D wrote:I have studied this site and the maps in detail. They do not gv the exact loactions. Like it may say that tehre is a THD 1955 at Nasik, but where in/around Nasik


Kersi - frankly speaking, it is very difficult to pick up these stuff from GE images unless you've a very trained eye for such stuff. And are aware of clues to identify stuff. For example, in the same site linked above, the author picks up a ST-68U/36D6 Radar at Pune; you and I will not be able to do this unless we spend inordinate time pouring very minutely through the image and looking for clues like shadow of radar and its mast, vehicles etc. Or, you've seen specimen of what you're looking for and can identify the same in image. Easier done for stuff like guns, tanks or fighter a/c but difficult for others.

The author is a trained fellow in Imagery Intelligence.

Here is a small test for you - can you make out the stuff in the GE location linked below:

https://www.google.co.in/maps/@28.458099,77.1256587,199m/data=!3m1!1e3

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Karan M » 29 Jun 2015 12:18

Is that a THD? Shadow seems suspiciously similar to: http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galle ... HD_002.jpg
The IFF antenna on top having a separate shadow f.e.

Good point on how much effort it must be taking trained imagery guys to figure out what is what.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby srin » 29 Jun 2015 12:32

I can't even make out a radar there :D

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Karan M » 29 Jun 2015 14:55

Thats exactly why that cunning Indoo SDRE rohit put that picture. :lol: :((

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby manjgu » 29 Jun 2015 15:43

kARAN M... with due respect, the Pakis know even the officers deputed on that radar station. every tom dick harry knows the location of the radars...they dont have to look at imagery to find that out..the moment the radar is switched on, its position is know... there is one in Arjungarh otw gurgaon. very visible from miles around...

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Karan M » 29 Jun 2015 15:47

I have no idea what your out of context reply is referring to. The issue is not of a fixed, single radar which is well known (which is why Rohit exactly knew where that one was) but of detecting any mobile radar many of which are rotated between several sites & hence trained imagery analysts need to figure out what is what. That point still stands & is actually validated by what Srin said.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby rohitvats » 29 Jun 2015 16:28

manjgu wrote:kARAN M... with due respect, the Pakis know even the officers deputed on that radar station. every tom dick harry knows the location of the radars...they dont have to look at imagery to find that out..the moment the radar is switched on, its position is know... there is one in Arjungarh otw gurgaon. very visible from miles around...


And this GE location is exactly of the very same THD-1955! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Does it even remotely seem familiar to the visual of the massive radar you see when you whiz past on the Gurgaon-Faridabad highway? I don't think so.

I could put up this location because like you, I pass it regularly and know where to look for it. However, if I were to be asked to search for a radar location even in a pre-defined area, I wouldn't be able to figure out what is in front of me.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby manjgu » 29 Jun 2015 18:09

what i am trying to tell is that radar location is picked out from easily from its emission..they dont have to pore over GE imagery to find out the location. and for the kind of radars like the one in Arjungarh , the position is known to all. even in war time the transportable radars will be located based on their emissions not by poring over imagery... though imagery could be used to doubly verify the location.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby member_22539 » 29 Jun 2015 19:20

^But wouldn't they be switching off and camouflaging mobile radars until they are actually to be used?

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Karan M » 30 Jun 2015 09:20

Aero India 2015: India gains indigenous AEW&C capability

India's AEW&C capability is about to be boosted by the advent of new Embraer EMB-145I aircraft.
Currently still undergoing trials with DRDO, the first of three indigenously developed AEW&C systems is planned to be delivered to the Indian air force in June, it has emerged. All three systems should be delivered by December, DRDO officials told MT. The EMB-145I aircraft that are part of the system are being modified under auspices of DRDO's Centre for AirBorne Systems (CABS) which acts as the systems integrator. India's domestic aerospace industry's role is mostly limited to providing special mission equipment but is in general not involved during integration, with the exception of Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) that has been selected as the engineering and life support agency for the aircraft's mission systems. In addition to AEW&C, the Embraer based system is also designed to perform battle management, ELINT, COMINT and airspace management. Fitted with additional fuel tanks and IFR capabilty, the aircraft has an endurance of up to 5 hours. Despite the addition of special mission equipment, the aircraft retains good hot and high performance.

Manufactured by Hyderabad based Astra Microwave Systems, the aircraft's S-band AESA radar is capable of detecting low RCS targets at long ranges with CABS personnel present during Aero India demonstrating data that showed correlated tracks involving radar, ESM and IFF input at up to 350 kilometers. The same officials indicated that the primary surveillance radar would be both S and L-band, however this appears not to correlate with Astra Microwave Systems' information. BEL was said to be manufacturing the aircraft's VHF/UHF SATCOM system while CABS, DRDO developed the IFF Mk XII (S) system. A total of five VHF, UHF radius are fitted. Also fitted is a Ku-band datalink that has shown to be capable of distributing data to other aircraft including Su-30MKI and MiG-21UPG fighters during trials. A C-band datalink is used for air-ground transmissions. The elaborate RWR-ESM-SPS suite has been developed by DRDO's Defence Avionics Research establishment (DARE). The self protection element consists of a missile approach warning system (MAWS) and a counter measure dispensing system (CMDS). With regard to the radar warning receivers, a high probability of intercept across the operational RF spectrum is guaranteed through wideband multi-bit digital receivers, according to information provided by DARE . The ESM's narrowband multi-bit digital receiver is also reported to be highly sensitive.

Equipped with five operator workstations, MT was told that the system has already demonstrated to be able to track up to 50 targets within a 300 kilometer radius. Theoretically, this system should be able to cope with a maximum of 500 targets. Each system also includes a ground station. An additional order for three systems to complement the larger Il-76 based AEW&C aircraft that were converted by IAI was said to be likely. This would also result in a total of six ground exploitation stations which would be distributed over the country, acting as an interface for the country's Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCS). The aircraft's graphical user interface is almost identical to that of what the Indian military continues to call the Phalcon, hereby limiting training efforts needed to progress from one system to another. IAI ELTA officials pointed out that technically the Phalcon designation is incorrect as this was only used for the initial conformal AEW upgrade of Chile's Boeing 707 aircraft.

Six EMB145I AEW&C aircraft would be capable of covering most of India's airspace. However, this would mean all six would need to be airborne which is highly unlikely considering planned maintenance, training etc. Asked about how the new aircraft would complement "Phalcon", MT was told that the Israeli system with its greater size and power arrangements would be used for detecting threats at longer ranges due to its radar being more powerful. Noteworthy, a mock up of an A330 based AEW&C system was on display at CABS' indoor exbibition booth during Aero India. This was said to be a preliminary study. However, with India also committed to buying A330 MRTT aircraft, there would be good reason for the IAF to indeed opt for the Airbus aircraft and have it fitted with indigenous equipment. This modern platform could then replace the current long range Il-76 based AEW&C capability.

http://www.miltechmag.com/2015/02/aero- ... enous.html

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Kersi D » 30 Jun 2015 09:25

Karan M wrote:I am referring to only new radar programs not ones in production.


:D

OK

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Kersi D » 30 Jun 2015 09:28

srin wrote:Is this for our AESA radars ? http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/bangalore/a-gallium-nitride-fab-in-the-offing/article7362861.ece

A new national fab for gallium nitride, a vital futuristic but hard to procure semiconductor material, is in the offing, spearheaded by Indian Institute of Science.

The fab will enable creation of reliable, India-specific integrated circuits for electronic devices that go into civil and strategic uses, including by departments of Space, Atomic Energy and Defence, according to key scientists involved in the Rs. 30-crore, six-year-old project to develop the material.

IISc’s Centre for Nanoscience & Engineering may house pilot activities while a separate location along with an industry partner is being considered. “It can be a game changer for the country. We won’t have to depend on others for making the devices,” material scientist R. Muralidharan, who was until April Director of the DRDO’s Solid State Physics Laboratory, New Delhi, told The Hindu .

R. Chidambaram, Principal Scientific Adviser to Govt. of India, chaired the session on ‘Nano science and engineering’ at the IISc alumni meet.


And as soon as this facility is to start series production, some phirangi company will offer these chips at a "attractive" price to ensure that we do not develop this technoloy

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Kersi D » 30 Jun 2015 09:33

rohitvats wrote:
Kersi D wrote:I have studied this site and the maps in detail. They do not gv the exact loactions. Like it may say that tehre is a THD 1955 at Nasik, but where in/around Nasik


Kersi - frankly speaking, it is very difficult to pick up these stuff from GE images unless you've a very trained eye for such stuff. And are aware of clues to identify stuff. For example, in the same site linked above, the author picks up a ST-68U/36D6 Radar at Pune; you and I will not be able to do this unless we spend inordinate time pouring very minutely through the image and looking for clues like shadow of radar and its mast, vehicles etc. Or, you've seen specimen of what you're looking for and can identify the same in image. Easier done for stuff like guns, tanks or fighter a/c but difficult for others.

The author is a trained fellow in Imagery Intelligence.

Here is a small test for you - can you make out the stuff in the GE location linked below:

https://www.google.co.in/maps/@28.458099,77.1256587,199m/data=!3m1!1e3



I agree. At the most I ahve been able to locate the huge cumbersome troposcatter antenae at some places. Samller missile FCS are virtually impossible. I could locate THD 1955 only because of the details given in the article. I am told of one such location of THD 1955 but i am still NOT able to get the exact position !!!

Kersi D
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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Kersi D » 30 Jun 2015 09:38

manjgu wrote:kARAN M... with due respect, the Pakis know even the officers deputed on that radar station. every tom dick harry knows the location of the radars...they dont have to look at imagery to find that out..the moment the radar is switched on, its position is know... there is one in Arjungarh otw gurgaon. very visible from miles around...


Maybe the one given by Mr Rohit Vats is at Arjungarh. (Or Rajkori ? )
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Kersi D
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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Kersi D » 30 Jun 2015 09:43

Karan M wrote:Aero India 2015: India gains indigenous AEW&C capability

Six EMB145I AEW&C aircraft would be capable of covering most of India's airspace. However, this would mean all six would need to be airborne.....



If we need six aircraft airborne all the time, we would need maybe 18 aircraft without considering atrtrition losses. May be we need double the number of crew
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Kersi D
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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Kersi D » 30 Jun 2015 09:46

rohitvats wrote:
Kersi D wrote:I have studied this site and the maps in detail. They do not gv the exact loactions. Like it may say that tehre is a THD 1955 at Nasik, but where in/around Nasik


Kersi - frankly speaking, it is very difficult to pick up these stuff from GE images unless you've a very trained eye for such stuff. And are aware of clues to identify stuff. For example, in the same site linked above, the author picks up a ST-68U/36D6 Radar at Pune; you and I will not be able to do this unless we spend inordinate time pouring very minutely through the image and looking for clues like shadow of radar and its mast, vehicles etc. Or, you've seen specimen of what you're looking for and can identify the same in image. Easier done for stuff like guns, tanks or fighter a/c but difficult for others.

The author is a trained fellow in Imagery Intelligence.

Here is a small test for you - can you make out the stuff in the GE location linked below:

https://www.google.co.in/maps/@28.458099,77.1256587,199m/data=!3m1!1e3


I was given "close" loactions of a THD 1955 site in western India. Inspite of spending several hours on Wikimapia (I prefer it to GE) I still cannot locate the damn thing.
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:(( :(( :((

Kersi D
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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Kersi D » 30 Jun 2015 09:47

Karan M wrote:Is that a THD? Shadow seems suspiciously similar to: http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galle ... HD_002.jpg
The IFF antenna on top having a separate shadow f.e.

Good point on how much effort it must be taking trained imagery guys to figure out what is what.


I was told this installation is in south India.
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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby K_Rohit » 30 Jun 2015 10:05

In the quote by Rohit- apart from the radar there is a troposcatter unit right next to DLF Golf Course

maitya
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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby maitya » 30 Jun 2015 10:23

Karan M wrote:Srin, thanks a ton for this news. This is great stuff. We have made huge strides in overall design & development of AESA radars, and the individual systems that go into them, plus the critical software. GaN is the next step required to keep those designs current in the years to come. Basically, you can make the AESAs more compact and more powerful. Eg a fighter AESA can come out with anywhere from 20% to 40% improvements in range or even more depending on specific cases. Huge long range radars can be made truck mobile. This is a very big step if its implemented and funded.
Many such proposals in UPA times went nowhere as St Antony did nothing and had no clue of the issues involved and Chiddu and gang made sure every Rs was scraped up and used for stuff like NREGA. Now hope this works out.

Karan Mji, you forgot the Thermal managment advantage angle ...

The advantages of GaN over GaAs MMICs were discussed loooooooooonnnng time (~2005/6 - with Dileepji, ArunSji et all) back in this very thread. Some of my contribution then, are as follows (and also points out the WHY part of GaN based MMICs superiority over GaAs):

1) Technical Diff between GaAs and GaN
2) Lay-man interpretation of these differences

You'll notice there, how all the three factors (DC-to-RF Efficiency, Energy Gap or Band Gap, Break down E-Field) for GaN MMICs contrbutes to ease of heat mgmt (which is a major headache for the AESAs) issues of the corresponding radar sets.


[Added Later] Betw if anybody is interested in the dissection of issues wrt LCA's MMR, when it got first reported a good place in the archive to look into would be to start from this Dileepji's post and go thru the next 2-3 pages.
(do note there are some distracting posts, and responces to those posts, in between - pls ignore them)

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Karan M » 30 Jun 2015 18:37

Thanks Maitya!

Kersi saar, reason you can't find so many THDs are because there are so few of them. IAF reduced its emphasis on static fixed HPRs post 1965 war (to the dismay of BEL who had budgeted and got significant inventory of THD-1955 systems) and focused more on mobile Medium Power Radars with 300km class range. Another reason IAF was not too happy with HPRs is because they have a significant minimum detection range & clutter issues which needed to be fixed with additional upgrades. So made more sense to buy larger number of MPRs.

Kersi D
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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Kersi D » 30 Jun 2015 21:58

Karan M wrote:Thanks Maitya!

Kersi saar, reason you can't find so many THDs are because there are so few of them. IAF reduced its emphasis on static fixed HPRs post 1965 war (to the dismay of BEL who had budgeted and got significant inventory of THD-1955 systems) and focused more on mobile Medium Power Radars with 300km class range. Another reason IAF was not too happy with HPRs is because they have a significant minimum detection range & clutter issues which needed to be fixed with additional upgrades. So made more sense to buy larger number of MPRs.


RIGHT

Except for the ABM detection the days of huge fixed radars is long over. Even ABM detection radar, Green Pine ???, can be transportable in about 24 hours. Now we have only the naval radars, on ships of course, for us to play hide-and-seek !!!! :(( :(( :((

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Kersi D » 02 Jul 2015 22:45

A mango man question.

What band / fregeuncy can a fighter aircraft borne AESA radar operates ?

Since the T/R can operate independently does it mean that an AESA radar can operate in ANY band ?

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Eric Leiderman » 03 Jul 2015 03:43

Hi Kersi

Band freq wave length in cm Applications
L Band , 1–2 GHz, 15 – 30 Air traffic control etc

S Band 2 – 4 GHz 15 – 7.5 cm Marine /radar, Satellite radio etc

X Band 8 - 12.0 GHz 3.75 – 2.5 cm Marine, aeronautical radars , comms etc

The reason for me tabulating above is TR cell size is half wave length
So fighter aircraft usually end up using X band because of smaller size, Better azimuth discrimination, smaller wave beam spread etc
Larger fighter aircraft could use the S band with the corrosponding size of TR cells eg Planned FGFA

Within these bands different users will have sub bands eg marine radars, aeronautical radars, satellite comms etc.

To prevent jamming the different industries stick within their sub bands

The TR cell will be tuned for max efficiency within this sub band.

Sort of a bell curve.

However in wartime AESA will frequency hop all over this band using maratime/commercial bandwidth

All of the above is not 100% accurate, however from an understanding point of view this is the funda


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