Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 04 Jul 2011 09:11

iirc all three major chinese airlines are state owned. few yrs back when they had they huge orders were able to get airbus to install a A320 assembly line in Tianjin. this inevitably pulls in suppliers too and results in transfer of lot of skills and machinery.

vishnu.nv
BRFite
Posts: 168
Joined: 22 Aug 2007 19:32

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby vishnu.nv » 04 Jul 2011 10:22

Shrinivasan wrote:
vishnu.nv wrote:Now after the Russian IL-76 spares mess up its quite clear we need to move on to other platforms. This was the main reason why IAF was reluctant to order more Phalcon's.
According to ACM Naik, IAF has ordered 2 more Phalcons based on the IL-76/A-50 platform


Eventually IAF ordered 2 more. But initial projections for Phalcons where 9-12 Systems and the rest being DRDO AEW.

Nihat
BRFite
Posts: 1282
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 13:35

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Nihat » 04 Jul 2011 11:53

9-12 Phalcons would not make much sense in terms of either cost or serviceability. 5 Phalcons is more than enough to take care of a long lasting conventional conflict on one front, combine that with 15-20 DRDO built AWACS and we'll got a formidable Early warning force.

rajanb
BRFite
Posts: 1945
Joined: 03 Feb 2011 16:56

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby rajanb » 04 Jul 2011 12:06

Nihat wrote:9-12 Phalcons would not make much sense in terms of either cost or serviceability. 5 Phalcons is more than enough to take care of a long lasting conventional conflict on one front, combine that with 15-20 DRDO built AWACS and we'll got a formidable Early warning force.


There is always a danger that if we have a war on one front, then we have to guard against intimidation tactics on the second front. So will 5 Phalcons be enough?

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 04 Jul 2011 12:17

5 is nowhere near being enough for 24x7 coverage even against the pakis. remember some part of the coast down to goa has to be covered atleast. the IL76 has limited time on station on internal fuel vs a bigger beast like 707/A330 so phalcons will tie up the precious few tankers we have too. there will be downtimes too.

DRDO AEW will take its own time for induction and volume production to build up numbers.

probably 12 phalcons (high end) and 24 cabs-aew(low end) is the minimum needed to feel safe.

Shrinivasan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2196
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 19:20
Location: Gateway Arch
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 04 Jul 2011 12:18

Singha wrote:iirc all three major chinese airlines are state owned. few yrs back when they had they huge orders were able to get airbus to install a A320 assembly line in Tianjin. this inevitably pulls in suppliers too and results in transfer of lot of skills and machinery.

Till recently western corporates were dying to invest in China, they wanted to manufacture everything there... now they are trying to cut their losses and run...Can you check if either Boeing or Airbus has actually started an assembly line in China?
This is what Boeing things about manufacturing in China
Boeing’s official opening today of its newly expanded composites factory in Tianjin, China, a joint venture with Aviation Industries Corp. of China (AVIC), may have more to do with the politics of aircraft sales than low-cost manufacturing.

One might think that an aircraft composites factory in China would be far cheaper to operate than one in the U.S. Not so, according to Richard Aboulafia, aerospace analyst for the Teal Group, outside Washington, D.C.

http://www.businesstianjin.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2784:boeing-woos-china-with-expanded-parts-plant-in-tianjin&catid=2:tianjin-finance&Itemid=27
Even Airbus has warned that setting up a facility in China would entail additional cost as "you’re replacing a supply chain and shipping over everything,”

Let us see how these things move along... If we get our Private players to move... it can result in a huge Aerospace hub in India!!!

Shrinivasan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2196
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 19:20
Location: Gateway Arch
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 04 Jul 2011 12:22

Singha wrote:5 is nowhere near being enough for 24x7 coverage even against the pakis.
...
probably 12 phalcons (high end) and 24 cabs-aew(low end) is the minimum needed to feel safe.

this is what I too felt till everyone started stating lower numbers... Even this 12+24 needs to be augmented with P8is (12-20), IL-38s, Dorniers, Aerostats etc (I remove TU-142 from the picture as they are older airframes and thus would be held in reserve or perform specific maritime duties.)

Integration would be huge force multiplier but we need good number of capable platforms to maintain 24x7 coverage.

merlin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2153
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: NullPointerException

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby merlin » 04 Jul 2011 15:39

Singha wrote:5 is nowhere near being enough for 24x7 coverage even against the pakis. remember some part of the coast down to goa has to be covered atleast. the IL76 has limited time on station on internal fuel vs a bigger beast like 707/A330 so phalcons will tie up the precious few tankers we have too. there will be downtimes too.

DRDO AEW will take its own time for induction and volume production to build up numbers.

probably 12 phalcons (high end) and 24 cabs-aew(low end) is the minimum needed to feel safe.


4 for one sector (3x8 hours, 1 on maintenance) of 500 km frontage?
1 set of four for J&K facing Pak, 1 set of four for J&K facing China, 1 set of four for NE.
Non-mountainous areas can be covered by ground based radars.

12 Phalcon types minimum is this chair marshalls assessment for sustained operations. For short durations, each set could be of 3 (2x12 hours with refuelling, 1 on maintenance) which would make it 9 numbers for 3 sectors.

vishnu.nv
BRFite
Posts: 168
Joined: 22 Aug 2007 19:32

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby vishnu.nv » 04 Jul 2011 15:40

Shrinivasan wrote:
Singha wrote:5 is nowhere near being enough for 24x7 coverage even against the pakis.
...
probably 12 phalcons (high end) and 24 cabs-aew(low end) is the minimum needed to feel safe.

this is what I too felt till everyone started stating lower numbers... Even this 12+24 needs to be augmented with P8is (12-20), IL-38s, Dorniers, Aerostats etc (I remove TU-142 from the picture as they are older airframes and thus would be held in reserve or perform specific maritime duties.)

Integration would be huge force multiplier but we need good number of capable platforms to maintain 24x7 coverage.


The P8i, Dorniers and Aerostats bring ISR capabilities to picture but never a replacement for dedicated AEW. Even though we are buying 12 DRDO birds we need 10 -12 Phalcons based on a Bigger platform to control bigger air operations and surveillance.

The G550, Embraer all are suited for small countries like Israel Where area to cover is very less. We have two fronts to cover plus support the Navy air operations in the vast Indian ocean.

Best approach would be to have a common platform for both Phalcos and DRDO AEW.

Shrinivasan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2196
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 19:20
Location: Gateway Arch
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 04 Jul 2011 22:41

vishnu.nv wrote:
Shrinivasan wrote:this is what I too felt till everyone started stating lower numbers... Even this 12+24 needs to be augmented with P8is (12-20), IL-38s, Dorniers, Aerostats etc

The P8i, Dorniers and Aerostats bring ISR capabilities to picture but never a replacement for dedicated AEW. Even though we are buying 12 DRDO birds we need 10 -12 Phalcons based on a Bigger platform to control bigger air operations and surveillance.

Dude, read what I said... "AUGMENTED", it means in addition to, i understand these are meant for a specific purpose ityaadi. All these would contribute feeds into IACCS (Integrated Air Command and Control System) of the Air Force and linked to different commands and bases (across the services) through AFNET.
We are both saying higher # of AWACS birds than the current plan of 5+3. I proposed 12+24 if you had noticed.
BTB, you idea of having the same platform for Phalcon and DRDO AEWCS wont work, we need a larger platform for Phalcon and a lean-mean platform with long legs for AEWCS. I we mount our AEWCS on a IL76 type platform, it would be overkill with higher acquisition and operating costs.
Even uncle has multiple platforms and a Wedgetail type AEWCS is mounted on a 737ER bird

Shrinivasan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2196
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 19:20
Location: Gateway Arch
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 04 Jul 2011 22:49

vishnu.nv wrote:The G550, Embraer all are suited for small countries like Israel Where area to cover is very less. We have two fronts to cover plus support the Navy air operations in the vast Indian ocean.

Vishnu, I am not proposing Gulfstream or Embraer based platforms for DRDO AEWCS. I had proposed Boeing 737ER based platform. This is to have commonality with Birds India procures for various needs like Tanker, Civilian transport, freight etc.
Again, what is this logic about small country vs large country. No AWACS is going to fly the length and Bredth of India. It will fly a race track pattern along the border with CAP support. each AWACS bird would be assigned a specific sector Few hundred KMs long and one bird would disengage and come home to roost when it is relieved (or ordered to come home) by another.
We have a longer border, doesn't mean we need Larger Bird, we need more birds. we need birds which are easier to maintain, can have longer loiter time, can accommodate a backup crew, has high uptime and Desh has a health spares situation.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19966
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Karan M » 04 Jul 2011 23:05

You need 3 AWACS to effectively deploy one, round the clock. One will be on station, one on the way to replace it, and another in maintenance getting ready. Overall 5 Phalcons means the ability to roughly deploy 2 at different locations, by reducing the maintenance time (keeping more spares at hand, dedicating more men to the task) and with the deployment not too far away from the home base. The 3 DRDO AEW&C will again translate to one airframe available round the clock, if deployed far away. The plus for us are our aerostats, each is per the IAF, equal to forty, ground based radars, and while as vulnerable as fixed ground based radars, they are a huge force multiplier. Ultimately, the long term future for is the DRDO AEW&C program. The plan is to have the next tranche with a similar antenna arrangement as on the Phalcon, on a larger platform. It will be more cost effective than the Phalcon, and hopefully around 12-18 AWACS will enable us to field around 6-8 of them round the clock. That plus, aerostats and the assorted GBR (Ground Based radars) can do the job we require of them. The big plus for all our AEW&C translating to better performance is that all are AESA, with very large MTBF. AESA arrays can run for many hundreds even thousands of hours and offer graceful degradation even when some modules fail. Compared to PAF AWACS like ZDK-03 which will require careful husbanding of both transmitter and other mechanical/hydraulic components, not just the airframe spares.

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17079
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 04 Jul 2011 23:20

Shrini, if IAF was happy with the IL-76 airframe and if it was available, we would certainly have gone for it as base for the CABS AEW&C, for commonality alone, the size argument notwithstanding. and I am not sure why you think it would be overkill, the EMB based AEW&C aircraft's overall capability is dictated by the size and power available from that platform, it can and will be scaled up for larger aircraft.
the EMB type aircrafts are very cramped and not at all conducive for long duration operations.

unkil uses only the 707 based E-3 and JSTARS, the much smaller wedgetail is for client states only. E-767 of JASDF is the modern analogue of the E-3.

Shyam_K
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 76
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 21:17

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Shyam_K » 04 Jul 2011 23:37

How about setting up aging and obsolete ground radars as automated sentries at the border? They wouldn't survive the opening salvos of a war, but the enemy would have to spend resources to take them out and they will act as a cheap and useful tripwire alert system.

eklavya
BRFite
Posts: 1883
Joined: 16 Nov 2004 23:57

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby eklavya » 05 Jul 2011 00:01

Karan M wrote:You need 3 AWACS to effectively deploy one, round the clock. One will be on station, one on the way to replace it, and another in maintenance getting ready. Overall 5 Phalcons means the ability to roughly deploy 2 at different locations, by reducing the maintenance time (keeping more spares at hand, dedicating more men to the task) and with the deployment not too far away from the home base.


Is AWACS deployed 'defensively' around-the-clock at one location, or is it used to provide the long eyes and ears for the offensive package crossing the border for a mission deep into enemy-territory?

Would have thought that we could have all 5 up simulataneously directing massive traffic in and out of enemy land up and down the border?

Shrinivasan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2196
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 19:20
Location: Gateway Arch
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 05 Jul 2011 01:14

Rahul M wrote:Shrini, if IAF was happy with the IL-76 airframe and if it was available, we would certainly have gone for it as base for the CABS AEW&C, for commonality alone, the size argument notwithstanding. and I am not sure why you think it would be overkill,

Desh selected Embraer even before the first Phalcon landed... also CABS AEW&Cs were designed with a smalled platform in mind and not a humungous platform like IL76. Also economics of that time was a factor. Non-availability of airframes, spare ityaadi headaches around IL-76 was not known then. Actually if you notice, towards the end of the IL-76 production run, almost every available frame was snapped up by IAF. dunno where we going to get the 2 additional frames for AWACS 4 and 5.
Rahul M wrote:the EMB based AEW&C aircraft's overall capability is dictated by the size and power available from that platform, it can and will be scaled up for larger aircraft.
the EMB type aircrafts are very cramped and not at all conducive for long duration operations.
Precisely, they were meant to be a started platform, hence we need to move to larger more powerful platform. Do we need to get this platform from Embraer (JV etc) or from Boeing or from Tanzania depends on multiple aspects, prime one being commonality of air frame with other platforms...
Rahul M wrote: unkil uses only the 707 based E-3 and JSTARS, the much smaller wedgetail is for client states only. E-767 of JASDF is the modern analogue of the E-3.

Agreed, which is why I proposed having a IL-76 for the larger Phalcon (like E3) and have a smaller platform like 737 or Embraer or Gulstream for the smaller cousin.
The day is not far off, when CABS can design a larger RADAR for our AWACS which would be be on a larger air frame like a 767ER.. Any single aisle passenger plane would be ideal with long endurance and enough space for bell&whistles, a Galley, sleeping quarters and a relief crew.

Shrinivasan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2196
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 19:20
Location: Gateway Arch
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 05 Jul 2011 01:17

eklavya wrote:Would have thought that we could have all 5 up simulataneously directing massive traffic in and out of enemy land up and down the border?

To have 5 AWACS operating simultaneously we would need a minimum of 10-12 birds in our inventory operating from one base. If we want to do it from multiple bases, we need to add more birds and a massive infrastructure to maintain these. a desi Ramstein AFB type base.

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17079
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 05 Jul 2011 06:21

>>
Desh selected Embraer even before the first Phalcon landed... also CABS AEW&Cs were designed with a smalled platform in mind and not a humungous platform like IL76. Also economics of that time was a factor. Non-availability of airframes, spare ityaadi headaches around IL-76 was not known then. Actually if you notice, towards the end of the IL-76 production run, almost every available frame was snapped up by IAF. dunno where we going to get the 2 additional frames for AWACS 4 and 5.
>>

only for the first 3, that's why I called those 'testing the water'. we were unsure of our capabilities and selected the low cost/low risk option. my point was about the second batch. CABS can scale up now, it is not some capability they have to wait for.

prithvi

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby prithvi » 05 Jul 2011 07:42

just curious...is it technology and economically feasible to un-mate the electronics and gadgets from an old airframe and mount it on newer platform like Embraer 10 years down the road?

Shrinivasan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2196
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 19:20
Location: Gateway Arch
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 05 Jul 2011 08:46

Rahul M wrote:>> only for the first 3, that's why I called those 'testing the water'. we were unsure of our capabilities and selected the low cost/low risk option. my point was about the second batch. CABS can scale up now, it is not some capability they have to wait for.

CABS and LDRE would now be working on RADAR units with a lot more power than the current LSTAR array. This would probably need a lot more power than what our current bird can provide. Then a newer more powerful bird with longer legs would be needed.. more consoles, more operators etc. We will also need backup flight crew and backup operators if we need to have 12+ hrs on station time!!!

chackojoseph
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4297
Joined: 01 Mar 2010 22:42
Location: From Frontier India
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 05 Jul 2011 08:50

prithvi wrote:just curious...is it technology and economically feasible to un-mate the electronics and gadgets from an old airframe and mount it on newer platform like Embraer 10 years down the road?


Not good operationally as newer technologies would have come up. You can refurbush the airframe/engine and use it for lower intensive requirements. That will be cheaper.

Shrinivasan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2196
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 19:20
Location: Gateway Arch
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 05 Jul 2011 09:01

chackojoseph wrote:Not good operationally as newer technologies would have come up. You can refurbush the airframe/engine and use it for lower intensive requirements. That will be cheaper.

CJ, You might want to do a feature on Indian AWACS program.. chronicling the twisted path it has taken, the present and future plans...

vishnu.nv
BRFite
Posts: 168
Joined: 22 Aug 2007 19:32

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby vishnu.nv » 05 Jul 2011 10:42

Srini,
My point was that None of the others which u mentioned is a replacement for the AWACS but in turn may need the AEW support. For example in a war time P8-i mission may need fighter escorts and may need AWACS support from the AF.
Its main purpose is for the SAR mapping and avoiding harsh whether. Hence even in a network-centric environment these platforms wont contribute much to the AWACS capabilities of IAF. Even Aerosats are static, they can only detect and track. Point being we cant say like we have 10 Aerosats so i need only 5 AWACS.

My second point was to have a bigger reliable platform for both phalcon's and DRDO AEW. Eventually the DRDO AEW will mature to the level of phalcon systems and may face space constraints in the smaller air frames, add with that the crew comfort. The bigger aircraft can have more number of controllers and wont require frequent refueling there by negating the operating costs.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 05 Jul 2011 14:02

big a/c have serious downtimes, being multi-engined and the IL78MD was not exactly designed for a 737ish runtime. Khan uncle has around 40 E3 does not mean they can deploy 40 for any fight - it just means on any given day there is a guarantee they can have 20-25 ready to go. france and UK each have around 7.

plus the mission eqpt is highly complex and will need its own servicing.

if the junta needs X awacs on station on a continuous basis, logic would indicate we need 1.5X that number of airframes for a 66% uptime.

chackojoseph
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4297
Joined: 01 Mar 2010 22:42
Location: From Frontier India
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 05 Jul 2011 14:18

Shrinivasan wrote:
chackojoseph wrote:Not good operationally as newer technologies would have come up. You can refurbush the airframe/engine and use it for lower intensive requirements. That will be cheaper.

CJ, You might want to do a feature on Indian AWACS program.. chronicling the twisted path it has taken, the present and future plans...


Nothing has been twisted ( The Indian AEW&C project detailed ) . Infact, it got a shell and a consultant to work with.

vic
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2412
Joined: 19 May 2010 10:00

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby vic » 05 Jul 2011 17:58

vishnu.nv wrote:The G550, Embraer all are suited for small countries like Israel Where area to cover is very less. We have two fronts to cover plus support the Navy air operations in the vast Indian ocean.

Best approach would be to have a common platform for both Phalcos and DRDO AEW.


I hope you appreciate that G550 is more than the twice the weight of current platform. Also as a passenger aircraft with western engine and with twin engine it consumes less fuel than IL-76, hence the for AEW platform its performance will not be very far off from Il-76 based platforms

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 05 Jul 2011 18:53

http://www.apollojets.com/images/aircra ... terior.jpg

how is this 8 pax cabin going to fit all the racks of mission avionics and 14 control stations of Phalcon + crew rest area + spare crew ?

even our EMB145 has a bigger cabin (22 seats)
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_cTaL ... 5-aewc.jpg

Shrinivasan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2196
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 19:20
Location: Gateway Arch
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 05 Jul 2011 23:24

Singha wrote:how is this 8 pax cabin going to fit all the racks of mission avionics and 14 control stations of Phalcon + crew rest area + spare crew ?
even our EMB145 has a bigger cabin (22 seats)

Singha,
you have compared Apples to Oranges... 8Pax is an executive seating arrangement... comparing basic aircraft specs, Gulsstream's G550's features are better
G550 EJ145
Range 6,750 nmi 2,000nmi
Max Payload 6,200lb 5,900lb (no biggie here)
Service Ceiling 51,000ft 37,000ft (height comes in handy in Tibetan plateau)
Length - Almost same ~29.5ft
Height 25ft 10inches 22ft 2inches

So GulfStream has its advantages... there is another model which is larger than G550 called G500. But all this is puny compared to the numbers for a Boeing 737 which would be ideal for our future AWACS requirements.

nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8354
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby nachiket » 05 Jul 2011 23:33

An ideal platform for the IL-76 for future Phalcons would be either the A330 or the B767. But the IAF would have to strike separate deals with Boeing/Airbus for integration with the airframe and flight testing. The cost would go up substantially as well. Advantages would be lower operating costs, greater endurance and greater uptimes. In fact I still have hopes that the IAF will in the future order 5-6 more Phalcons based on the A330/B767. The CABS system, when scaled up can also be fitted on the same platform.

Shrinivasan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2196
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 19:20
Location: Gateway Arch
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 06 Jul 2011 03:41

nachiket wrote:An ideal platform for the IL-76 for future Phalcons would be either the A330 or the B767.

Wouldn't Boeing 767 be a humungous platform? i think the 737 Next Generation series of planes would be ideal. Integration with the Radar platform would be the trick I presume?
I think Embraer was chosen over other players because of their willingness to integrate our Radar on their airframe. What about a larger Embraer model like ERJ190-200? payload is slightly less compared to 737 and height and width are comparable.

Krishnakg
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 41
Joined: 17 Jul 2010 01:16
Location: hyderabad
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Krishnakg » 14 Jul 2011 21:07

P-8I news update by Boeing

"A new maritime patrol aircraft is taking shape in Seattle, Wash. Boeing employees there are building the P-8A Poseidon for the U.S. Navy and its variant, the P-8I, for the Indian navy. The aircraft are on track to be fielded by the U.S. and Indian navies in 2013. The programs are cruising ahead due to several factors, including using the existing Boeing 737 commercial airliner as their platform. They also expect to gain efficiencies from in-line production, meaning aircraft modifications unique to the P-8 are made during fabrication and assembly, not after."

Video Embedded in the following link
http://www.boeing.com/Features/2011/07/bds_p8_07_13_11.html

P-8A animated sub hunting video


A very nice P-8I animated video uploaded by Shiv Aroor
(Couldn't find any previous posting/ref on this forum. In case I missed, my apologies for reposting)


sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10117
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby sum » 15 Jul 2011 21:09

^^ Krishnakg, was posted earlier ( mostly in the Naval dhaga as this is ASW related) but no harm watching this beauty again! :D

Shrinivasan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2196
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 19:20
Location: Gateway Arch
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 16 Jul 2011 01:59

^^^ Krishnakg, thanks for posting this... this should have been posted in the Naval Dhaga...
^^Sum, the first video is new, eventhough it is a P8 generic, it still has an abundance of info about the Posedion..
Anyway no harm watching this beauty again!

VishalJ
BRFite
Posts: 1025
Joined: 12 Feb 2009 06:40
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby VishalJ » 24 Jul 2011 01:51

Mummy Antenna kaha gaya ? Image

July 14th 2011, KW-3551 @ Tel Aviv sans ^

Image

vishnu.nv
BRFite
Posts: 168
Joined: 22 Aug 2007 19:32

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby vishnu.nv » 24 Jul 2011 10:05

Is this the 3rd one ? or 4th?

Kakarat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2159
Joined: 26 Jan 2005 13:59

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Kakarat » 24 Jul 2011 10:16

KW-3551 is the first one
Could be a old photo

Shrinivasan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2196
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 19:20
Location: Gateway Arch
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 24 Jul 2011 11:45

Vishal Jolapara wrote:Mummy Antenna kaha gaya ?
July 14th 2011, KW-3551 @ Tel Aviv sans ^
Vishal, this is the first Phalcon, delivered long ago to Desh and is currently based out of Agra, There is no way it could have been sighted in Tel-Aviv. This photo could be an old photo of 2-3 years ago but posted now. Or this is a new bird (but then why use the old #?). Let us not dig deeper unless some info gets released in the public domain.

PratikDas
BRFite
Posts: 1927
Joined: 06 Feb 2009 07:46
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 24 Jul 2011 14:06

Vishal, thanks for posting the *already public* photos. There seems to be an abundance of self-made adminullahs nowadays.

VishalJ
BRFite
Posts: 1025
Joined: 12 Feb 2009 06:40
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby VishalJ » 24 Jul 2011 16:44

PratikDas wrote:Vishal, thanks for posting the *already public* photos. There seems to be an abundance of self-made adminullahs nowadays.

Pratik i'm not sure what you're trying to imply here.
I was the one who posted one of the first photos of the A50 doing its thing in Israel,
The lead Israeli spotter made the following remark in his Top Shot (which was later removed off JetPhotos.net for some security reason) of the A50 pushing back for its first flight with the Phalcon Installed, 'Photo dedicated to Vishal Jolapara from Mumbai'

Disclaimer: ANSOLUTELY NO DISRESPECT INTENDED TO ANYONE ELSE, i greatly appreciate everyone's contribution to this great forum which i feel proud of belonging to & learning abundantly from. Image
But, I never post anything other than High-Quality Images, mine or others' and i wouldnt post it it there wasnt anything new about it.
Reason i posted it was - because - the Phalcon was NOT installed on it & the D-A-T-E O-N I-T S-A-Y-S Quote:

Vishal Jolapara wrote:July 14th 2011, KW-3551 @ Tel Aviv sans ^

http://www.airliners.net/photo/1955905/L/
I myself have emailed Seigi to clarify 'the doubt' & the link to here, awaiting his reply :wink:

Shrinivasan wrote:
Vishal Jolapara wrote:Mummy Antenna kaha gaya ?
July 14th 2011, KW-3551 @ Tel Aviv sans ^
Vishal, this is the first Phalcon, delivered long ago to Desh and is currently based out of Agra, There is no way it could have been sighted in Tel-Aviv. This photo could be an old photo of 2-3 years ago but posted now. Or this is a new bird (but then why use the old #?).
Let us not dig deeper unless some info gets released in the public domain.

You hit the nail on its head with the last line Shri.
PS: (i emailed u) My gipht on its way ? :mrgreen:

VishalJ
BRFite
Posts: 1025
Joined: 12 Feb 2009 06:40
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby VishalJ » 24 Jul 2011 17:22

Clarification recieved:

זיג מחשבים to me
show details 17:23 (29 minutes ago)

Dear Vishal,
This a/c has shown up here at the exact date which appear with the photo.
The date on my camera is OK, the a/c supposed to come earlier but there was a delay.
You can trust the information our community provides.
Four photos in flicker: http://www.flickr.com/photos/65581465@N03/5970007136/

Regards,
Siegi


----- Original Message -----
From: "Vishal Jolapara"
To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 2:22 PM
Subject: Airliners.net photo feedback: Indian AF Beriev A-50EI


Hi Mate,

This is Vishal here from Mumbai

Thank you for uploading this photo of our aircraft - http://www.airliners.net/photo/1955905/L/

There has been a bit of confusion & speculation on our Indian Military Forum about the Phalcon Antenna not being on the plane leading to some people believing (wrongly) that this may be an old photo.

I justified it not being so by pointing out the date of 'July 14th 2011' but i just wanted to check with you if there hasnt been any mistake from your side in inputting the date values & that this photo WAS actually shot 2 weeks ago?

If you have more recent photos of it can u pls upload them to your flickr a/c for me to show & clarify to the many on our forum ?

Thanks again for all the superb photos you have shot of our a/c in Israel, MUCH APPRECIATED!!

Best Regards - Vishal

----------------------------------------------------------
Message was sent using the mail interface on Airliners.net
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?id=1955905


As per my request, Siegi has put-up 4 on his Flickr Page > http://www.flickr.com/photos/65581465@N03/

On the right of the photo there, you can see the date it was shot & you can access the Full EXIF data by clicking on the Camera name

Image


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: James, mody, raghava and 52 guests