Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

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Snehashis
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby Snehashis » 20 Sep 2018 02:46

Likely the first moving clip of a Embraer-DRDO Netra early warning jet tanking up in the air.

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1042362676448387072

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby Prem » 19 Dec 2018 02:11

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1074648556856901632
Likely the 1st public picture of the @IAF_MCC's AEW&C squadron with their bird, seen here at #CopeIndia2018. Squadron based at Bhisiana Air Force Station near Bathinda, Punjab.

Image

Karan M
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Karan M » 19 Dec 2018 03:29

Why do you want to hand Netra over to anyone when Nambiar sir notes IAF is happy with it's performance. The platform may not be the all singing and dancing huge system originally planned, but as it stands it is clearly very useful for the IAF. A 200-300 km wide swath surveillance system is nothing to sneeze at versus the limited availability achieved by individual fighter radars with endurance restrictions.


enaiel wrote:Maybe Netra can be handed over to IN for 24 hour coastal surveillance for:
1. Detection of small air and water craft to prevent future Mumbai style attacks.
2. Detection of drones and cruise missiles.
3. Range support during missile tests and ISRO rocket launches similar to https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2018-09-10/us-navy-receives-range-support-gulfstream

Karan M wrote:
Netra had a ship tracking role too.

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby JayS » 19 Dec 2018 09:30

Today there is a webinar at 3pm on "Growth of Indian Airborne Surveillance Systems" by Dr Christopher. This is part of Aero India 2019. Should be open to all. Aero India must be having link on their site. So should Dept of Defense prod.

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 19 Dec 2018 18:05

^^what is still not clear is why just 3 of the netra (1 will be with DRDO for testing)The AWACS is still some time away

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby Prasad » 19 Dec 2018 18:16

Kickbacks allegations :(
Plus the fact that the IAF wants a true blue bigger 360degree coverage AWACS.

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby srin » 19 Dec 2018 18:56

The Netra is one beautiful bird. Is there any space that isn't covered by antennas ?

If it was used in Cope India 2018, then it shows the IAF confidence in the system and that it is fully operational.

It is sad to have the kickback allegations. While we wait for the bigger chappati shaped AWACS, it'd have been lovely to have half a dozen of these birds.

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 19 Dec 2018 19:05

We would need AWACS to track Pak BM launches as well. So you need something powerful with long range and 360 coverage.

IAF could have got couple more of them, but only IAF knows what they want. The Phalcon has been hanging fire in limbo for a long time. Neither have they pushed hard on getting GoI to approve A330 based AWACS.

May be SU30's radar provides some breathing space? I don't know.

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 19 Dec 2018 19:07

Today's webinar.


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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 19 Dec 2018 19:20

there is no way a fighter radar can provide the range, sweep and abilities of a awacs radar .

for Pak-Cheen missile tests we need the huge ground based BMD radars I think.

pic of chinese spy base on coco island just north of andamans. I hope we got the myanmar govt to kick them out from there?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Littl ... 93.2247222

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 19 Dec 2018 19:32

AWACS helps in boost phase monitoring. We have some of the building blocks for boost phase intercept using SU30s.

I don't know if things have been implemented.

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby Gagan » 20 Dec 2018 13:27

Hopefully DRDO can test an Airlaunched Anti Missile Missile launched off of an MKI in ITR

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby Gagan » 20 Dec 2018 13:30

Singha wrote:pic of chinese spy base on coco island just north of andamans. I hope we got the myanmar govt to kick them out from there?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Littl ... 93.2247222

They have built a Radar to monitor Air and Sea traffic
14°07'12.6"N 93°21'47.4"E

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 20 Dec 2018 14:38

Another point which came to my mind on 240 degree coverage with side antenna is that drawback of missing the target when turning to come back in the loop.

They would flying perpendicular to the incoming target and moving away/coming in towards the target. They would be in a blind spot when looping back and coming towards the target for better scan.

In 360, the AWACS could been in one place in a loop, without having worry about blind spots or fear of going towards the target.

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby JayS » 20 Dec 2018 15:48

Gagan wrote:Hopefully DRDO can test an Airlaunched Anti Missile Missile launched off of an MKI in ITR


I don't think we will see any serious antimissile missile system but rather DEW such as Laser weapons will take up that mantle.

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 20 Dec 2018 23:26

Some google search reminded me that we signed a deal for 2 more Phalcons in 2016 and are expected to arrive in 19.

A330 program is not clear. Attenna is apparently ready, however don't know if Airbus is already modifying the jet.

I have a feeling our local program was pushed back to fund the Phalcon deal.

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby JayS » 03 Jan 2019 18:15

BTW, on the event of DRDO Day, Dr G Satheesh Reddy seems to have hinted at Netra FOC in near future along with LCA. Read on ruNDTV. Wont share the link, there is nothing in it really apart from this one statement.

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 03 Jan 2019 18:50

He is going to do a webinar as part of AI19. Hope someone ask him if India AWACS will have GaN based radar and if we have ordered A330 already.

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby Prasad » 03 Jan 2019 21:09

A330 order isn't done yet acc to Dr Christopher.

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby abhik » 03 Jan 2019 21:17

I thought L band GaN was confirmed for India AWACS already no? ( Don't remember where I read it though)

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby kit » 04 Jan 2019 04:29

abhik wrote:I thought L band GaN was confirmed for India AWACS already no? ( Don't remember where I read it though)


i think that's correct also remember the requirement for a third engine to provide power/cooling etc !! .. that thing will be true state of art when it comes online 8)

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby Prem » 31 Jan 2019 11:33

India to buy 2 more AWACS worth Rs 5.7k crore from Israel
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... s?from=mdr

NEW DELHI: India is finally close to approving the over $800 eal for two more “Phalcon” airborne warning and control systems which comes soon after it inked a Rs 4,577 crore contract forair defence radars with the Jewish state .With Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu keen to visit India in mid-February, Tel Aviv is also pushing for aa renewed deal for the “Spike” anti-tank guided missiles.

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby JayS » 31 Jan 2019 13:04

No additional orders for Netra and no movement on large desi AWACS for years. Babudom creates artificial scarcity and justification for rushed import orders.

Ideally India should have chosen a single large airliner for refueller & AWACS (and if possible even for transporter). Get the aircrafts made in India under offset obligations and kickstart industry for large aircraft. Then leverage this capability to further the manufacturing base by augmenting the total orders with Civil Airline companies' orders.

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 31 Jan 2019 14:21

We could have installed Phalcon on 2 A330 and then 6 A330 with DRDO kit. Would have given us cheaper per unit.

DRDO is ready with AWACS India Antenna and dome.

But then..

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby Austin » 31 Jan 2019 16:55

Prem wrote:India to buy 2 more AWACS worth Rs 5.7k crore from Israel
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... s?from=mdr

NEW DELHI: India is finally close to approving the over $800 eal for two more “Phalcon” airborne warning and control systems which comes soon after it inked a Rs 4,577 crore contract forair defence radars with the Jewish state .With Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu keen to visit India in mid-February, Tel Aviv is also pushing for aa renewed deal for the “Spike” anti-tank guided missiles.

We need to look into integrating Israel Radar Phalcon type or more advanced on A330NEO platform and order like a batch of 6 , This could be a cost effective option and better too

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 31 Jan 2019 17:26

DRDO's radar and dome had been ready for a while and DAC gave in-principle approval in 2015.

IAF could have taken the project ahead for 4 years, however looks like they preferred to wait 8 years since 2011, to get 2 more Phalcon on a IL76.

You can take the horse to the pond...

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby Deans » 17 Feb 2019 22:24

Can someone comment in simple terms, on how Pakistan's Saab 2000 `eireye' compares with our AEW&C (both the ER 145 and IL-76 platforms) ?

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby Zynda » 17 Feb 2019 22:34

^^Deans saar, I think it was in one of the seminars of AI-15, DRDO had prepared a slide on how Netra compares with Saab 2000 Eireye. I know those slides were posted here on the forum (a few screen shots and I summarised it in to text) but I am not sure if they are archived. I would suggest you to look in to it...

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby VKumar » 17 Feb 2019 23:47

Austin wrote:
Prem wrote:India to buy 2 more AWACS worth Rs 5.7k crore from Israel
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... s?from=mdr


We need to look into integrating Israel Radar Phalcon type or more advanced on A330NEO platform and order like a batch of 6 , This could be a cost effective option and better too


Every squadron should have its own AWACS and REFUELLER.

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 17 Feb 2019 23:49

Deans wrote:Can someone comment in simple terms, on how Pakistan's Saab 2000 `eireye' compares with our AEW&C (both the ER 145 and IL-76 platforms) ?


Based on what can be seen, propeller versus turbine engine. So Netra will have higher flight, more power, so probably longer ranged radar. Netra is max 300KM as per ex-head of DRDO.

Also will be able to dash off faster in time of trouble.

On station time may be less compared to Saab, however compensated by in-flight refueling.

SAAB radar might be better in ECM, given being a much earlier development and maturity.

Both Eireye & Netra have the issue of only 240 degree coverage, which means they have to fly in a certain pattern to keep target in sight and switching between the two faces. Netra has the ability of "off-bore" scan. i.e. ability to scan while blanking.

Phalcon does not have that problem. Longer ranged, longer on-station, higher ceiling etc.

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby Deans » 18 Feb 2019 09:24

Thanks Nam, that was helpful.

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 18 Feb 2019 15:22

Deans wrote:Thanks Nam, that was helpful.


One thing I was wrong.

Latest from AI, says the Netra long range track was at 475KM, not 300..

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status/1097424782386053120

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby ashthor » 18 Feb 2019 16:47

The software runs on XP?

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby Karthik S » 18 Feb 2019 17:09

So when are we getting the 2 new Phalcons ? Looks was deal was signed last month.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 765253.cms

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby Zynda » 18 Feb 2019 19:32

nam wrote:
Deans wrote:Thanks Nam, that was helpful.


One thing I was wrong.

Latest from AI, says the Netra long range track was at 475KM, not 300..

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status/1097424782386053120

Any idea if they are using GaN modules in Radar? Saab 2000 upgrade with GaN increases the range from 200 Kms to 350 Kms (150%) per releases by Saab. This is seriously impressive...of course, I do think the targets tracked at extreme ranges will be huge commercial airlines type.

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 18 Feb 2019 19:36

Netra is on GaAS module.

India AWACS may be on GaN. No confirmation yet. I am going by GaAs. It would be icing on the cake, if it is GaN.

The S band TRM GaN are in the 200W range.

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby Prasad » 18 Feb 2019 21:51


rajsunder
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby rajsunder » 18 Feb 2019 22:13

ashthor wrote:The software runs on XP?

Embedded version of XP. I believe that MS still supports that version.

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby Karan M » 18 Feb 2019 23:56

Prasad, so does the RCS read 34 in this slide
https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 53120?s=19

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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Postby Karan M » 18 Feb 2019 23:57

Also any more snippets from the seminar? Did they mention any more Uttam variants, actual range achieved or any real performance specs post test.


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