Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 18 Jan 2010 08:19

Cain Marko wrote:
nachiket wrote:Look at the aircraft on the runway to the right. It looks like a C-17. Its definitely larger than the Il-76s which you can see all over the airbase. The C-130s and C-17 must be American. On a stopover for fuel perhaps. Just guessing.

BTW, doesn't the Agra AFB have any fighter squadron present? It seems to be teeming with transport aircraft but no fighters.


I haven't seen the image, but was it taken during the last Cope India? IIRC, the IAF/USAF transports and AWACS played a good deal with each other during the exercise.

CM.

most likely taken during the last Indo-US transport exercises at agra which was followed by the armoured forces exercise at babina. both C-17 and C-130 appeared at those.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 18 Jan 2010 08:38

DRDO should first deliver the MMR-2032 cross breed and the EMB145 radar to the satisfaction of the client rather than big talk of we will make a low cost phalcon etc. first bring it near delivery then talk of next projects. no point talking of putting man on mars in 2040 today.

so far their record on airborne radar or SAR pod delivery is nonexistent.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 18 Jan 2010 11:09

Dmurphy wrote:
Kakarat wrote:A-50 AWACS can be seen in Agra Air Force Station in google maps
OMG, you're right! Thanks! http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=27.153894 ... 18&l=0&m=b


Those are amazingly clear pictures..... :shock:

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Gagan » 18 Jan 2010 13:48

India received the Phalcon on May 25, 2009.

Google Earth's image was taken on Oct 17, 2009

COPE india 2009 was going on then:
COPE India 2009 pics at LIVEFIST
Notice the C-130s and the C-17 were there at Agra.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby arun » 02 Feb 2010 17:08

Tuesday 2 February 2010

India to test-fly AWACS in 2012

Bangalore, Feb 2 (PTI)

The indigenous Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) System integrated onboard the Brazilian jet aircraft EMB145 as per IAF requirement would be flight tested in 2012, a key official involved in the project said.

The AEW&C system (also called AWACS - Airborne Warning and Control System) is being developed by the Bangalore-based Centre or Airborne Systems (CABS), a lab under the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) for the IAF.

Under a deal signed between India and Brazil in 2008, Embraer aircraft manufacturer would modify its EMB145 to carry Active Array Antenna Unit by India on the aircraft's fuselage. Three modified EMB-145 aircraft would be developed under the agreement.

"AEW&C's flying platform is the modified EMB145, which will take to skies later this year. It is scheduled to be delivered to us in Aug 2011," CABS Director S Christopher said here on Tuesday. ...............................

Christopher said: "...our mission systems will be ready by this year. It will be tested in this rig in 2011, followed by flight testing in 2012". ........................

PTI via Deccan Herald

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby antaryami » 05 Feb 2010 20:54

Centre for Airborne System new facility called STIR (System Test and Integration Rig) was inaugurated by the Defence Minister on 02 Feb 10. The brochure distributed to the Media personnel had this image on the cover page.

http://img38.imagefra.me/img/img38/2/2/ ... 985372.png

Looks impressive.Lets hope the AEW&C system meets the time lines.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Gilles » 16 Mar 2010 07:34

vivek_ahuja wrote: And I don't think the Phalcon has really been tested for mid-air refueling, just yet. We will have to wait and see the IAF experience coming out on that front over the next few months.


Image

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 16 Mar 2010 09:20

Image

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby viveks » 16 Mar 2010 09:51

Thanks...juggi....you really made my day...awesome photo!! :D

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 18 Mar 2010 08:10

Image
IAF Surface-to-Air Missiles displayed as A-50 I AWACS Aircraft prepares to land at Hindon air force station

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby marimuthu » 18 Mar 2010 08:43






Where are these photos taken?. It is KW 3552 model which is still undergoing test and not yet delivered to India.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 18 Mar 2010 10:48

Juggi G wrote:Image
IAF Surface-to-Air Missiles displayed as A-50 I AWACS Aircraft prepares to land at Hindon air force station


I can see a number of tall structue, probably some antennaes. Any ideas ?

K

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby vishal » 18 Mar 2010 12:40

^^^^^
There is a whole bunch of those things in one massive cluster as one drives to Igatpuri from Mumbai. Had even taken a photo once but never figured out what they were.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 18 Mar 2010 15:51

vishal wrote:^^^^^
There is a whole bunch of those things in one massive cluster as one drives to Igatpuri from Mumbai. Had even taken a photo once but never figured out what they were.


In case of pic with A-50 AWACS, the towers are part of the communication set-up. May be so in case of vishal, if belonging to Navy or other defence service. You'll invariably find them close to large Navy and Air Force Stations. IA has numerous bases which are spaced more densely ( especially in west) and may have multiple set-ups like these towers and ASCON.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Gilles » 19 Mar 2010 03:40

marimuthu wrote:





Where are these photos taken?. It is KW 3552 model which is still undergoing test and not yet delivered to India.


i cannot find my source but i read they were taken over Russia. All non-electronic mods including refuelling probe and radome are installed by Beriev so i would imagine that the in-flight trials such as these be done in Russia by Beriev.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby arun » 23 Mar 2010 07:40

Admiral (Retd) Walter F Doran, President Asia for Raytheon is quoted as saying that the Airborne Stand-Off Radar (ASTOR) mounted on a Bombardier Global Express aircraft has been offered to India:

US offers latest airborne radar to India

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Gagan » 23 Mar 2010 10:44

This is the ASTOR:
Image

But what is this? This was in testing in israel a couple of years ago. This is for the ARC.
Image
ARC 1125 Astra?

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 23 Mar 2010 10:50

israel were working on their own astorish soln using the G550 awacs platform.
saw a CG of both together once.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Gagan » 23 Mar 2010 11:38

Hmm,

Looks like massa wants to bypass the yehudis on tech transfer to India.

(Just as the chinese want to bypass the NoKos and packees on missile/nooke transfers to the middle east)

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby shanksinha » 23 Mar 2010 13:22

^^^^The above frontal photos of A-50 were first posted in BR by yours truly. These pics as rightly pointed by Gilles, were taken in Russia during flight trials. I downgraded the pics a bit to make them lighter.

Thanks

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Ashish J » 23 Mar 2010 16:11

India to get second AWACS on Thursday
New Delhi, Mar 23 (PTI) India will receive another Israeli-made Phalcon Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AWACS) on Thursday, giving it the second 'eye in the sky' for enhanced surveillance that would virtually cover the entire nation.

The second AWACS will arrive in Jamnagar in Gujarat and will be deployed in Agra, IAF officials said here today.

With the arrival of the second AWACS, officials said the IAF can keep an eye on both the eastern and western front at the same time.

"After the induction of the third system, we would be able to virtually cover the whole nation at one go," they added.

The system, primarily used for detection of incoming hostile cruise missiles and aircraft from hundreds of kilometers away, can also direct air defence fighters during combat operations against enemy jets. It also helps detect troop build up across the borders.


http://www.ptinews.com/news/577945_Indi ... n-Thursday

YUHooo... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Craig Alpert » 24 Mar 2010 05:16

Israeli air force showcases G550 surveillance fleet
Image
In its Eitam airborne warning configuration, the G550 carries a sophisticated multi-sensor suite and six on-board operators.
Over the years, the air force has used versions of transports including the Douglas DC-3, Israel Aerospace Industries Arava and Boeing 707 for missions such as airborne early warning and electronic intelligence-gathering. But faced with more sophisticated threats, the service several years ago decided to upgrade its capabilities.

It wanted something smaller and cheaper, but with much more capability than legacy systems. With the understanding that some equipment cannot be purchased on the open market, Israel's own advanced technology and determined people were called upon to deliver a cutting-edge surveillance capability.


Air force commanders held a series of long meetings with engineers from IAI, before hearing the phrase that they had waited for: "This can be done." The result was a programme to develop two special-mission variants from the G550: a business jet designed for people that have money but not time.

A visit in the passenger cabin of such an aircraft leaves a smell of fine leather in the nose and an impression of super luxury, but it was the model's other advantages of long range and high speed that formed the basis for its selection for military use.

The G550's transformation into an air force asset was not a simple task, but today Israel is operating the type in two adapted versions: the "Eitam" AEW aircraft and the "Shavit" ELINT platform. Both are equipped with technologies developed and manufactured by IAI's radar and electronic warfare subsidiary Elta Systems.

MULTI-SENSOR SUITE
For the AEW mission, the Eitam carries the company's EL/W-2085 multi-sensor suite, which comprises four conformal L- and S-band radars, plus communication and electronic support measures, communications intelligence and ELINT capabilities and identification friend-or-foe equipment, plus various other antennas mounted on the fuselage.

Surveillance data gathered by these on-board sensors is fused and continuously cross-correlated, enabling the suite to be automatically cued to search for specific targets, up to full 360° coverage.
The AEW radar uses four main active electronically scanned array antennas for wide-area coverage and to allow an instantaneous focus to be made on selected targets of interest. Elta says the radar can be pointed at any direction at any time, with the parameters of its arrays controlled by computer. As a result, surveillance can be limited to a battle zone and other areas of interest using a much higher scan rate.

A special mode for manoeuvring and high-value targets also employs a high scan rate, with beam shapes optimised to ensure tracking performance and extended detection range. Verification beams are sent towards specific, individual and newly detected targets, eliminating false alarms, says Elta. Track initiation is achieved in 2-4s.

Visiting such a highly classified air force squadron creates a big problem for a journalist, as it is obvious that it has already been involved in all sorts of operations that will stay under security wraps for years to come.

Questions about the Nachshon unit's operations to date were met with a polite smile, but its commander, a Lt Col, eventually commented: "We can operate at any range needed to defend the security of Israel."

The data sheet for the G550 lists the business jet as having a range of 12,500km (6,750nm) and an endurance of 11h, and IAI has previously said that the Eitam can fly for over 9h above 41,000ft (12,500m).

Asked whether the squadron has performed missions across such an envelope, the commander's smile appeared again, but no details followed.

The international media has claimed that Israel launched air strikes last year to destroy a secret nuclear reactor in Syria and convoys carrying arms in Sudan before they reached Hamas militants in the Gaza strip. Asked whether his unit was involved, not even the smile remained.

Climbing aboard one of the air force's G550s inside a brand new hangar at Nevatim delivers a sharp contrast to memories of business jets and champagne. Now equipped with its radar equipment and conformal antennas on each side of its fuselage, the modified Eitam is a windowless aircraft.

Asked whether a sense of claustrophobia or suffocation can be felt during long missions, Maj G - one of the aircraft's on-board mission commanders - says it was considered a potential problem before the aircraft entered operational use. But the need to fully concentrate on the images being shown on the mission system's large screens very quickly becomes the only dominant sensation, he says.

Squadron personnel worked very closely with Elta's engineers and technicians to design a system that would provide the best performance, and the aircraft's six air controllers sit in the aft section, behind a small galley in the centre of the cabin.
And while all signs of the luxury normally associated with the civil G550 have been eliminated, one special comfort has been provided. The controllers' seats have been covered with a special fabric, which gives them "a more fresh and easy felling", another squadron officer says.

Although the AEW aircraft attracts the highest profile attention, the air force's ELINT-configured Shavit also delivers outstanding capabilities. Going inside the aircraft, which has also been packed with sensors, was not allowed, but sources say the new asset has "completely changed the way in which Israel is able to build the threat picture from far away".

Image
Details about the performance of Israel's new Shavit Elint aircraft remain highly classified. ©Israel Aerospace Industries

In common with the Eitam, the ELINT aircraft carries a comprehensive self-protection system that is operated according to the known threats that it may encounter on operations. "We are very well protected," the squadron commander notes.

Now fully operational, the air force's Nachshon squadron is delivering strategic capabilities that in the past were only on Israel's wishlist. IAI has already delivered its first AEW-configured G550 to launch export customer Singapore, and views India as another near-term sales opportunity for the type.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Craig Alpert » 24 Mar 2010 05:20

General Atomics attracts first customer for Avenger UAV, claims Lockheed
Image
..................
The system's IRST sensor will initially provide a 60° azimuth scan capability. A planned processor upgrade will increase the scan window to 120°, Bolling says.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Ashish J » 25 Mar 2010 23:18

India receives second AWACS, to be deployed in Agra

New Delhi, Mar 25 (PTI) India today received the second of the three contracted Israeli-made Phalcon Airborne Early Warning and Control System at the Jamnagar air base, giving it the second 'eye in the sky' for enhanced surveillance capabilities.

The second AWACS arrived in Gujarat from Israel in the evening and will be deployed in Agra, IAF officials said here.

With the arrival of the second AWACS, officials said the IAF can keep an eye on both the eastern and western front at the same time and with the induction of the third system, expected later this year, virtually covering the entire nation.

The system, primarily used for detection of incoming hostile cruise missiles and aircraft from hundreds of kilometres away, can also direct air defence fighters during combat operations against enemy jets. It also helps detect troop build-up across the border.


http://www.ptinews.com/news/581875_Indi ... ed-in-Agra

Happy 2 break gud news :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby steve » 26 Mar 2010 06:40

Ashish J wrote:India receives second AWACS, to be deployed in Agra

New Delhi, Mar 25 (PTI) India today received the second of the three contracted Israeli-made Phalcon Airborne Early Warning and Control System at the Jamnagar air base, giving it the second 'eye in the sky' for enhanced surveillance capabilities.

The second AWACS arrived in Gujarat from Israel in the evening and will be deployed in Agra, IAF officials said here.

With the arrival of the second AWACS, officials said the IAF can keep an eye on both the eastern and western front at the same time and with the induction of the third system, expected later this year, virtually covering the entire nation.

The system, primarily used for detection of incoming hostile cruise missiles and aircraft from hundreds of kilometres away, can also direct air defence fighters during combat operations against enemy jets. It also helps detect troop build-up across the border.


http://www.ptinews.com/news/581875_Indi ... ed-in-Agra

Happy 2 break gud news :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

We got our Second AWACS......WOW...........What a Great News....................... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Reason: mind the fontsize. this is not a kid's forum.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Khalsa » 26 Mar 2010 13:00

where are the high res pics ?!?!

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Gilles » 28 Mar 2010 22:05


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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby sawant » 28 Mar 2010 22:43

Do we know how the AWACS are going to be distributed... i assume 1 for Delhi (Agra), 1 for the west coast(Mumbai?) and one for NE?

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby srai » 28 Mar 2010 23:17

sawant wrote:Do we know how the AWACS are going to be distributed... i assume 1 for Delhi (Agra), 1 for the west coast(Mumbai?) and one for NE?


In wartime, you need at least 3 AEW&C to provide a continous 24h coverage of one area. So ideally IAF needs at least another 6 more AEW&Cs (total 9) to cover North-east, North-west, and South-west regions 24h a day during wartime. 2 AEW&Cs will rotate shift every 8 hours while the 3rd acts as a reserve.

In peacetime, it's hard to say how they will be deployed away from their home base in Agra. IAF tends to deploy flights to various regions on a continous basis for most of its a/c types.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Kartik » 28 Mar 2010 23:34


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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby sunilpatel » 28 Mar 2010 23:49

sawant wrote:Do we know how the AWACS are going to be distributed... i assume 1 for Delhi (Agra), 1 for the west coast(Mumbai?) and one for NE?

earlier news was that, initially, all 3 will be based at Agra.... but 1 for NE seems for sure...cause dont know somedays suddenly we will come to know, china has raised 4 sq. of j-10 , 11 near indian boarder...

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Gilles » 30 Mar 2010 20:51

srai wrote:In wartime, you need at least 3 AEW&C to provide a continous 24h coverage of one area. So ideally IAF needs at least another 6 more AEW&Cs (total 9) to cover North-east, North-west, and South-west regions 24h a day during wartime. 2 AEW&Cs will rotate shift every 8 hours while the 3rd acts as a reserve.

In peacetime, it's hard to say how they will be deployed away from their home base in Agra. IAF tends to deploy flights to various regions on a continous basis for most of its a/c types.


This aircraft, if capable of taking-off with full fuel, which is 90 about tonnes of fuel (it depends on the empty weight of the aircraft and the payload it needs to carry to perform its duties, which I ignore), should be able to stay in the air un-refuelled for about 10 hours. With Air-to-Air refuelling capability, if relief crew members are on board and adequate rest areas are provided to them, the A-50 could theoretically stay on station several days, once an IL-78 goes up to refuel it every 6 or 8 hours.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby rkhanna » 31 Mar 2010 04:08

>>>In wartime, you need at least 3 AEW&C to provide a continous 24h coverage of one area. So ideally IAF needs at least another 6 more AEW&Cs (total 9) to cover North-east, North-west, and South-west regions 24h a day during wartime. 2 AEW&Cs will rotate shift every 8 hours while the 3rd acts as a reserve.

In peacetime, it's hard to say how they will be deployed away from their home base in Agra. IAF tends to deploy flights to various regions on a continous basis for most of its a/c types.<<<



We will need alot more than that. The Navy will need just as many for the East , West and South. Then through in attrition reserves.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 01 Apr 2010 05:03

Photos of A-50 I Phalcon KW-3552 while still in Russia. { The Second AWACS, delivered to the Indian Air Force last week. }

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/S ... 740654.jpg[/img]

Click on Images for Large 1600 x 1050 Size Images

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/S7Nl7w8OFEI/AAAAAAAAKCE/bvdC-Sw38BE/s800/DSC_0303-739215.jpg[/img]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/S7Nl8x2650I/AAAAAAAAKCU/qoP3fupNwtM/s800/DPP_0089-742703.jpg[/img]

Pics Courtesy Shiv Paa ji's Blog.
Last edited by Rahul M on 01 Apr 2010 07:08, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: don't post large images inline.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby putnanja » 01 Apr 2010 05:08

Juggi, why are you posting such large images ? A link will be sufficient. It increases page load time and causes scrolling on the thread. Why don't you post the smaller size image and link it to the bigger one on shiv's blog?

BTW, these photos has already been posted in miscellaneous pics thread

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby shukla » 01 Apr 2010 12:57

India to Buy A-50EI AWACS from Russia

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has begun negotiating for nine more A-50EI aircraft from Russia. India aims to acquire three of the A-50EI aircraft under the main contract and have another six in an option.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Nihat » 01 Apr 2010 17:10

I'm confused after reading the above linked article, is this a follow on order from the 3 Phalcons we have already ordered and of the same category or is this the Russian AEW aircraft.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby shukla » 01 Apr 2010 17:34

Nihat wrote:I'm confused after reading the above linked article, is this a follow on order from the 3 Phalcons we have already ordered and of the same category or is this the Russian AEW aircraft.


Its 3 from the first order (of which 2 already delivered and 1 on its way) & a fresh order 9 more (i.e 3 as a the follow on from the 1st order + option of another 6)

So definitely an order totaling 6 + an option of another 6. Thats my understanding at least..

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 01 Apr 2010 19:28

mission avionics and radar highly complex , we need redundant awacs in a N:N ratio to guarantee 24x7 availability in high intensity long range wars.

12 is good, given 6 is needed minimum to deal with a 2 front situation.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby jaladipc » 01 Apr 2010 20:22

Singha wrote:mission avionics and radar highly complex , we need redundant awacs in a N:N ratio to guarantee 24x7 availability in high intensity long range wars.

12 is good, given 6 is needed minimum to deal with a 2 front situation.


Wasnt the actual consideration for 6 Phalcons and another 6 from DRDO(with its current design).While the MKII will be rolled out by 2020 based on phalcon model with extreme coverage and command control on a huge aircraft?

But recently IAF said,it needs 9 Phalcons ,while the gaps will be filled with DRDO AWACS.


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