Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

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nam
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by nam »

It might be a difficult ask, but it would be quite interesting if they put a L band on the nose and rear and S band on the side panel. So even with a smaller radar on the front, you get a longer range for volume search, while the side panel can do Netra type tracking.
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by putnanja »

A321s are a good choice, they can easily stay in air for 7-8 hours and are big enough to have more power than Emb-45s. The aircraft will be pretty cheap, and servicing/maintenance will be much cheaper compared to Il-76.

Especially right now, with airlines being in doldrums and many aircraft being prematurely retired, it might be better to pick up 5-6 year old aircraft with lots of life in them at good prices and modify them for AEWS/tanker roles.
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by ArjunPandit »

not sure why people say airlines are in doldrums its not march..traffic is recoverign across the globe. Nevertheless a good decision the sooner the better..and always better than no decision.
shiv let his imagination go wild

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putnanja
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by putnanja »

Off topic, but airlines are hurting, many are trying to consolidate. many aircrafts parked with no plans to bring them back for next year or two.

'Devastating and unrelenting' Covid-19 crisis will cost airlines $157 billion, says IATA
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by Mort Walker »

The A321 means a smaller radome, which means a lower gain antenna. Perhaps with GaN technology, higher power array elements are possible.

If this project is cleared by March 2021, it will be 2026-27 before these AWACS become operational. A fair amount of work has to be done. Better late than never.
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by brar_w »

If they are being driven by budgets and by a need to get them in the hands of the IAF ASAP then I suspect DRDO will strongly consider a similar (to Netra) or larger balance beam or some other lower weight and drag configuration. I don't think you can stuff fuel tanks in there (you also need to provide for other things) and get the performance back with a originally planned chapatti on top. That is just about the heaviest and highest drag configuration that a narrowbody has to overcome. It also won't be as straight forward as modifying it and handing it over in a short period. Such weight and drag will probably warrant quite a detailed structural analysis, tunnel testing and physical flight testing with actual hardware.

I suspect the antenna design and the radar and mission suite will be updated to suite the platform.
nam wrote:It might be a difficult ask, but it would be quite interesting if they put a L band on the nose ..
The nose won't be able to accommodate an L-band radar that will be suitable. It would require too big an antenna size and won't fit there.
Cybaru wrote:chappati is only one way for 360 coverage..

360 is not required the way we plan to use these.. deepest looking radar that can pick up stealthy platforms solves 90% of our problems. Rest is all nice to have!!
No there are other ways to achieve 360 but it all comes down to overall requirements. Do all the radar antennas have to have the exact same size and performance? Does the radar have to be at S-band, or C-band (the heaviest and power hungry configuration you can get on an AEW)? Are you willing to trade aircraft range, persistence and loiter etc etc. Boeing/Northrop's E-7 has three antennas, two looking side and one looking front and aft. Again the radar had to be created (instead of re-purposing Northrop's existing AWACS radar which it had produced widely) from scratch because of platform limitations. The upside was that they offered a larger version of the same concept for the E-10 which faced similar weight, and drag issues on the 767 (because they wanted a full JSTARS level X-band GMTI radar at the bottom as well). So it is doable, but the question is what are the operator requirements that you have to meet and are they amenable to being modified based on platform limitation? If not then then you accept a heck of a lot of risk.

For the Wedgetail/E-7 and the tophat the biggest enemy was weight and drag. That 11-hour unrefueled endurance was important because they were competing with widebodies and more efficient aircraft so couldn't compete without matching or exceeding endurance. That influenced radar design, choice of radar band, performance and everything else.



If you need to spend a long time up in the air then these are your worst enemies. DRDO and IAF will have to jointly agree to something similar that addresses the weight and drag penalty on the A-320.

Do also note that it isn't very easy to top up a commercial airliner via air-refueling. Even with a Boom (which the IAF's tankers don't do) it will still likely take multiple hits at a tanker (based on tasking) depending upon how much fuel each can offload at any given time. With hose and drogue the process will likely be much slower and may take additional tanker hits. So the organic endurance of the platform is still important despite it having IFR.
Last edited by brar_w on 17 Dec 2020 21:47, edited 9 times in total.
nam
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by nam »

Apparently this was the SAAB offer against the Wedgetail!

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Airbus must have run some studies to offer two kitkat on the top of A330. Wonder how they intend to cover 360 degree.
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by brar_w »

nam wrote:Apparently this was the SAAB offer against the Wedgetail!
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Airbus must have run some studies to offer two kitkat on the top of A330. Wonder how they intend to cover 360 degree.
If I recall, SAAB simply offered mounting their existing Globaleye sensors on existing UK aircraft (A330s) not on any new builds from Airbus. One or two were both shown/proposed at one time or another. Doubling a non-360 degree radar would still have limited 360 degree capability so it really was a patched up solution and SAAB trying to cling on and show that they too (like Boeing) had a low risk solution. Ultimately though they didn't even get a serious look because migrating one or two radars on a completely new platform and doing it for the first time isn't really as low risk as they were making it out to be.
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by hnair »

This is a letdown from the mega-A330 based one for a jingo :(( but am glad they are not going for the nonsensical C295 based proposal. Lower power generating and slow flying Turboprop is not going to cut it if you want an offensive battle-management bubble in an enemy territory teeming with fast jets and mobile medium SAMs . We need something that can fly fast across and back to Indian borders, where our ground based sensors will provide the static defensive bubble
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by kit »

hnair wrote:This is a letdown from the mega-A330 based one for a jingo :(( but am glad they are not going for the nonsensical C295 based proposal. Lower power generating and slow flying Turboprop is not going to cut it if you want an offensive battle-management bubble in an enemy territory teeming with fast jets and mobile medium SAMs . We need something that can fly fast across and back to Indian borders, where our ground based sensors will provide the static defensive bubble
I am curious that they have described the new tender as a proposal for AEW&C instead of the DRDO AWACS ( A330). All the same is this a lite version of the proposed DRDO AWACS ?.. should be interesting to know ( and that version had a large power requirement that even mentioned., at one point., a third engine/powerplant/aux unit !)
nam
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by nam »

Whatever we are doing with A320 / A321(A321 apparently is much bigger than A320), Airbus & Saab will be very interested. Specially if we go with 360 degree.

It is likely to become a competing platform against the Wedgetail, where Saab or IAI can place the sensor on a aero tested platform and offer them around.

Arabs, Indonesia etc would be very interested.
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by brar_w »

No need for SAAB or anyone else. Let them do their own R&D and integration work (SAAB as it is prefers smaller aircraft given its customer base). Airbus does airframe integration and DRDO does the sensor and mission systems. The easiest option for V1 is to get the Netra radar, which is now battle proven, mounted on an A-320. Maybe that and IFR is doable in 4-5 years if the contract with Airbus is swift and payments happen as planned. Perhaps that can be iterated and expanded with a bigger sensor down the road. The IAF likes the Netra and the NG-Netra that can have a crew of 10 or more operators, and significantly higher endurance will only make it better. Budgets and how fast the IAF wants the capability in its hands are going to be important. SAAB doesn't have a 360-degree radar ready or even in the works that can integrate on the A-320. Neither does anyone else at the moment IIRC. Wedgetail was highly successful and out of production (which goes to show how not-so-large the market for AEW&C really is). The UK is bringing it back with the arrangement that all future (and UK) will be converted there. Most nations who needed to buy it have already bought it and those who haven't, for the most part, have bought something else (like the Globaleye,Phalcon, smaller Business jet based AEW or E-2) or upgraded their existing platforms. Going forward, there is large enough of an organic demand from the IAF (and maybe even the IN) to just continue to iterate the platform so what it sells in the global market shouldn't be a primary concern but just a bonus.
Last edited by brar_w on 17 Dec 2020 23:24, edited 3 times in total.
SRajesh
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by SRajesh »

Can I ask a :?: :?:
Apart from AI there are I am sure there are other airlines in doldrums due to COVID.
Can the DRDO and the IAF finalise which aircraft and and get atleast 2-3 with good air frame lives for 10-20 yrs.
AI planes workout fine or else get it from elsewhere.
NaMo should put 'thumbscrews' of the reluctant baboos to get the ball rolling.
I mean we are the kings of 'Jugaad' we should not be craving for the 'Unobtanium' and keep crying into the wee hrs with desi daaru :lol: :lol:
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Reason: Go ahead and ask the question. Please do not post stuff like "Can I ask?"
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by brar_w »

DRDO Cleared To Convert 6 Air India A320s Into IAF AEW Jets

Six Airbus A320 airliners operated by India’s national carrier Air India will be modified, integrated with sensors and delivered to the Indian Air Force as new airborne early warning & control (AEW&C) aircraft as part of a new plan cleared today. The Ministry of Defence today approved a Rs 10,500 crore (Rs 1.4 billion) program in which India’s Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO) will integrate radars and sensor on six Airbus A320 commercial airliners from national carrier Air India’s current fleet. The six aircraft are to be sent to France, where they will be refurbished and modified to Indian Air Force/DRDO specifications.

If plans remain on track, the six aircraft will join the IAF to add AEW muscle to the pair of Embraer-DRDO AEW&C Netra jets in service and three older PHALCON AWACS jets. It is not clear if this new move, revealed in the Indian press on Wednesday, supplants earlier plans by the DRDO to deliver an Airbus A330 based AWACS system — though the two systems are significantly different in capability and scope.

Livefist learns that the A320 based AEW&C platform will sport a derivative of the dorsal antenna system fitted on the Netra jets, and not likely a radome solution as has been speculated since the news broke Wednesday. This, however, is still unclear. In the words of a scientist familiar with the program, it will involve “trying past experience with additional features”.


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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by Raman »

Short of buying more Embraer-based Netras, the A320 based system is the most sensible idea. If anything, we should have gone with a B737 or A320 based Netra from the get-go. We cannot afford the A330 based systems in numbers and the C295 would lack serious capability.
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by Vivek K »

IAF is short of AEW now! Even behind PAF in numbers. Would have been better to order a few more Netras as is while developing the nextGen. IIRC it seems that on Feb 27, IAF AEW had limited time on station because of limited numbers while PAF did not - is that a correct understanding?
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

Don't know whether to be happy or sad.

Its likely that this new plan will deliver products faster than the A330 Chappathi, but it will not nearly be as fast as getting more Embraer-based Netras.

We'll develop another bespoke solution for 6 AWE&Cs before the IAF will ask for a full-blown Chappathi. Get into a new development cycle for that.

I am at a loss to understand the inability of RM/PM to take the pen and de-blacklist Embraer & do it openly (citing nat sec). Will be far easier than making everyone jump through hoops in designing a 3rd AWACS variant. This piecemeal approach is the exact opposite of industrialization/economies-of-scale
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

Until and unless Embrarer is removed from the blacklist, this is the next best bet.
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by kit »

brar_w wrote:DRDO Cleared To Convert 6 Air India A320s Into IAF AEW Jets
If plans remain on track, the six aircraft will join the IAF to add AEW muscle to the pair of Embraer-DRDO AEW&C Netra jets in service and three older PHALCON AWACS jets. It is not clear if this new move, revealed in the Indian press on Wednesday, supplants earlier plans by the DRDO to deliver an Airbus A330 based AWACS system — though the two systems are significantly different in capability and scope.

Livefist learns that the A320 based AEW&C platform will sport a derivative of the dorsal antenna system fitted on the Netra jets, and not likely a radome solution as has been speculated since the news broke Wednesday. This, however, is still unclear. In the words of a scientist familiar with the program, it will involve “trying past experience with additional features”.
I quite think that is indeed the case. There are no further "Netra" based embraers, rather an augmented Netra AEW&C on an Airbus frame. The A330 AWACS/augmented Phalcons remains very much on track.So these two form the top and lower tier of early warning systems.
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by brar_w »

Prem Kumar wrote:Don't know whether to be happy or sad.

Its likely that this new plan will deliver products faster than the A330 Chappathi, but it will not nearly be as fast as getting more Embraer-based Netras.

We'll develop another bespoke solution for 6 AWE&Cs before the IAF will ask for a full-blown Chappathi. Get into a new development cycle for that.

I am at a loss to understand the inability of RM/PM to take the pen and de-blacklist Embraer & do it openly (citing nat sec). Will be far easier than making everyone jump through hoops in designing a 3rd AWACS variant. This piecemeal approach is the exact opposite of industrialization/economies-of-scale
There is always friction (some of it is actually needed) between operator demand and the S&T community. Both aren't always 100% aligned. So while the larger 360-degree capable long range / long-endurance widebody based platform would have been the best solution, it would also have been the most costly and the least timely from a delivery timeline stand-point. Not to mention all the technical, schedule and budget risk. The IAF likes the Netra. The A-320 adds more operator stations, more crew comfort, and is going to have significantly greater endurance. So as long as it can be delivered in the 5 year time frame it is going to provide a significant boost in IAF's AEW capability while still meeting a budget and allowing CAPEX to be allotted to other priorities. And no reason to stop at 6. When the economy improves, and the program begins delivering this can be expanded. There are plenty of A-320's flying around the world and new build production rate is also high.
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by brar_w »

kit wrote: I quite think that is indeed the case. There are no further "Netra" based embraers, rather an augmented Netra AEW&C on an Airbus frame. The A330 AWACS/augmented Phalcons remains very much on track.So these two form the top and lower tier of early warning systems.
I don't think the IAF or the MOD will be amenable to funding two AEW projects concurrently when current plan is leveraging used Air India tails to save money. There are also other priorities to consider. So this becomes a rehost+upgrade effort and once this is completed the IAF and the MOD can look to get behind (as in financially bank-roll at requisite levels) efforts to consider a widebody based platform for the future. The IAF still needs more modern fighters, tankers, and whole host of other capabilities so it will always be tempting to invest in them and if investing in AWACS, invest in more of what they already have. Happy to be proven wrong but this is the course I see the IAF and MOD taking given the mismatch between modernization need and available funds and projected budgets.
Last edited by brar_w on 18 Dec 2020 01:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by Kakkaji »

I think part of the reason for this decision i that the GoI currently owns Air India, and can quickly transfer ownership of these 6 aircraft to IAF at book value which is likely close to zero. Also, at some level the GoI must have sounded out the bidders for Air India and got them to agree to this transfer. Air India probably has more aircraft than its bidders think it needs. So, kill two birds with one stone.
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by hnair »

This is probably the fastest of the possible solutions since Airbus might already have run simulations. This was necessitated by changed situation and what if cheen and pak decides to do a cage match in the next few years. I think this program can be done with lot more speed than even restarting Embraer solution and most definitely faster than the A330 Grand Lady. A total of 11 high quality AWACS is a robust force.

Thank you cheen for getting GoI to act
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

Brar: the frustrating part about the Emraer Netra is that

1) IAF likes it and wants more
2) DRDO/CABS is proud of its baby and can deliver more
3) Its battle proven
4) Has fastest time to market

The only fly in the ointment is the blacklisting. Something squarely in the RM/PM court. They can remove the blacklist if they choose to. Yes, I know - politics, duffer-Rahul etc, but they can use the China bogeyman to push this through, if there is intent
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by nam »

I feel IAF is not happy with ERJ 145 as a platform. It does give decent coverage of 300KM and 400+ in search mode, plus probably around 6 hr on station. Otherwise removing the ban would be much easier, as a gift to the Brazil president who was the RD chief guest. Denel had it's black listing removed with a deal, same can be done with Embrarer. HAL even wants to buy part of the company!

The key issue would be lack of space. No decent crew rest area and lack of on board power. A320/321 resolves the power and space issue. If they could get a IFR & 360, that would be nice.

A320 doesn't have the brute power of A330, but I would be close to the IL76 Phalcons.
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by brar_w »

But the broader thing to consider is this:

1) If this new program is well executed, the IAF may still be able to get these new A321 based AEW out there in the next 4-6 years which while not fast isn't the decade plus that traditionally takes to put a completely new clean sheet AEW into operational service

2) The IAF and MOD may well have balked at the cost of the A-330 based solution since it needs both quality and quantity and has many other competing priorities.

This deal kills both birds with one stone. IAF gets a longer endurance and more capable platform (which was partly the reason to go for the A-330 based AWACS in the first place) while the MOD has something that it can quickly sanction and accommodate within its budgets. Its a win-win. If more money is freed up or becomes avaialble the IAF can now wait and, based on how successful this rehost effort is, decide as to whether it allocates that funding towards a more long term AWACS solution or one that buys more of the existing design that it likes. It may well be that half a decade from now the IAF feels that a more distributed solution is preferred over an expensive AWACS (in line with where this mission is headed globally). The A-320 based solution buys it time to decide that while also meeting a medium term operational need. It will be much better than the Netra. If for nothing else, on account of having a larger crew count, more stations, more crew comfort, and much much better endurance. Not to mention that the larger aircraft allows for more physical space to add additional gear over time as the overall suite won't be as densely packed as the Netra.
Last edited by brar_w on 18 Dec 2020 01:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by SBajwa »

This is indeed good news but the AEW&CS on Embraer is a pure beauty and we need more of them.
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by nam »

Just realized that E3(707) and A321 are very close in length (47M to 44.5M) and similar fuselage width! AI has only 4 A320 and 20 A321!. So DRDO must be picking up A321.

E3 looks big due to 4 engines.

Now I am thinking, if E3 can have a revolving chapati, why can't A321 have a static one! I feel, the chapati whenever it comes, will be on A321 instead of A330
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by Mort Walker »

Vivek K wrote:IAF is short of AEW now! Even behind PAF in numbers. Would have been better to order a few more Netras as is while developing the nextGen. IIRC it seems that on Feb 27, IAF AEW had limited time on station because of limited numbers while PAF did not - is that a correct understanding?
IAF maybe short of AEW platforms, but nothing the PLAAF or PAF have can compare to the EL/W-2090 that the IAF has been operating for over 10 years now. It is better to expand on that full blow platform and get the needed radar and comms performance.
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by Vivek K »

But everything has uptime limitations - and India has a lot of border to cover especially in the North, the North East and East - not taking West into the picture for the moment. I think the deficiency was felt on Feb 27th. Best is to make more Netras 2-3 and get the A-321 in production. DRDO's 4-7 yrs can be 10-12 years.
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by Mort Walker »

Money is not unlimited and you can't have both. I'll take one full blown 360-degree AWACS over 3 AEW platforms any day. AEW have their uses, but won't give as much target information such as aircraft identification, range and velocity information. More importantly low velocity targets flying close to the ground is where an AEW platform doesn't have the clutter rejection.
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by Vivek K »

Really? Money is not unlimited? Is that for real? I though since we were buying Gold plated Rafales and trying to import everything like F-18s/Rafale M and so on that there was a pot of gold somewhere.

We always want the cadillac solution and keep waiting for that to come. So our money gets invested and come war time, we're still waiting. The situation is that IAF is behind the stupid PAF in numbers. And this when China is enemy no. 1 and has a far larger number on hand than the PAF.

It is said that the IAF likes the Netras. So going by that, a practical, efficient solution must be available in sufficient numbers.
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by Mort Walker »

Numbers of AEW platforms will not replace a full blown AWACS in terms of mission capability. As said, the IAF and CABS have a decade of experience with the EL/W-2090. It is not like buying Chevy instead of a Cadillac. It's more like buying a few scooters instead of a car.

The A320 implementation will be more advanced than the NETRA platform, but not as ambitious or capable as a full blown AWACS on the A-330 or 767. Think of it as getting six Maruti 800s instead of three BMW 5-Series or a dozen Bajaj scooters. IMHO, the decision taken was the correct one. The IAF will like this advance AEW just as well and it is still an indigenous platform.

On a side note, at the end 1988, there was hesitation to produce E-3s for the PAF, for which they were promised between 1985-1987, and USAF had plans to support the PAF as late as FY1990 with a piggy back on Saudi (RSAF) assistance.
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by nachiket »

hnair wrote:This is probably the fastest of the possible solutions since Airbus might already have run simulations. This was necessitated by changed situation and what if cheen and pak decides to do a cage match in the next few years. I think this program can be done with lot more speed than even restarting Embraer solution and most definitely faster than the A330 Grand Lady. A total of 11 high quality AWACS is a robust force.

Thank you cheen for getting GoI to act
The fastest solution would have been to remove Embraer from the blacklist and get more of the existing Netra. But this is the next best thing. Will take a bit longer, but on the other hand acquisition cost of the aircraft will be low and this will provide the same radar performance as the existing Netra (which the IAF is satisfied with) while allowing longer duration missions with more space for the crew.
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

If the A320 are in addition to A330, then yay. If not, then it's just a sugar coating on a bitter pill.
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by putnanja »

A320/321 will have better coverage than Netra given that A321 can support bigger radar and higher power requirements. Check out Boeing 737 based Wedgetail (E7) and other related aircrafts that Australia, Turkey and others are operating. 737-700 based E7 is smaller than A320. So A321 based AWACS should be comparable or better than E7. No way will A320/321 based AEWS be just similar to Netra. It should be much better than it. It will be between Netra and proposed A330 based solution.

In fact, there are many A330s also being retired prematurely that the govt could have looked at. But something is better than nothing at this time.
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Also, DRDO chapati for A320 is undergoing ground tests. It is a massive chapati, probably too large for A320. Chapati radar would require essentially redesign from scratch. Netra dorsal spine radar upscaling might be more simpler.
brar_w
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by brar_w »

putnanja wrote:A320/321 will have better coverage than Netra given that A321 can support bigger radar and higher power requirements. Check out Boeing 737 based Wedgetail (E7) and other related aircrafts that Australia, Turkey and others are operating. 737-700 based E7 is smaller than A320. So A321 based AWACS should be comparable or better than E7. No way will A320/321 based AEWS be just similar to Netra. It should be much better than it. It will be between Netra and proposed A330 based solution.
You are comparing apples to oranges. It is a matter of design trades and what you chose. The E-7 leverages an L-Band AESA (efficiency) and has three arrays that cover the sides, aft, and forward sector. The top-hat design is very distinct and almost a custom solution with a NB airliner and other parameters in mind. The idea was to find the smallest aircraft that could support 10 or more operator stations and maintain more than 10 hours of endurance (extendable via IFR) and then optimize a radar solution that had all round coverage within the limitations of the aircraft, design ad other parameters. So all that played a role. The more traditional balance beam is a different solution, and very effective one at that. So ideally, they could scale that radar and the individual 2 arrays larger which should extract better performance. But unless they find a way to add a third or fourth array full coverage will still not be possible. There are ways to obviously do that (like the top-hat configuration which is just one way) but it all depends how far they want to deviate from the Netra and how much time and funding they have to pursue a new and more optimized design.

I have a hunch that at leas the version 1 may indeed be a retrofit with certain limited upgrades. This can be done in about 5 years from project sanction. Future iterations can grow the sensor and gain the full potential of the additional payload and volume the airbus affords. I think the IAF will want something as fast as possible (bummer that additional Netra could be had the fastest) so that is likely to influence what they decide to do. But let's wait for more clarity which is likely to emerge as the project is sanctioned.
Prem Kumar
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

nam wrote:I feel IAF is not happy with ERJ 145 as a platform.
Not true. The IAF chief had recently mentioned that they like it and want to order more. Yes, the IAF eventually wants the Chappathis, but its not either-or. We need a mix of both.
Prem Kumar
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Re: Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

Mort Walker wrote:Money is not unlimited and you can't have both. I'll take one full blown 360-degree AWACS over 3 AEW platforms any day. AEW have their uses, but won't give as much target information such as aircraft identification, range and velocity information. More importantly low velocity targets flying close to the ground is where an AEW platform doesn't have the clutter rejection.
You are burning strawmen. We need AWE&C platforms yesterday and are woefully short. Capex for 2021 can be bulk spent on purchasing Embraer-Netras and only a relatively small amount needs to be allocated for the R&D work on the full blown AWACS. By the time we will spend a large amount of Capex on AWACS induction, which is at least 5+ years from now, we'd have completed the Netra induction.

We need a mix of both types.
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