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AEW&C News & Discussion

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Indranil » 11 Jan 2017 01:40

Cybaru wrote: So the given 6 screens and 360/6 = 60 degrees may not be the way things get done.

It is not.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 25 Jan 2017 23:18

So, the DRDO - Embraer AEW&C has a name. It's the Netra and will be named publicly for the first time tomorrow.
https://twitter.com/livefist/status/824233529127108609

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 26 Jan 2017 21:18

Netra at Republic Day flown by senior IAF test pilots -- Group Captain Badhrish Athreya & Group Captain Pradeep Batra
https://twitter.com/livefist/status/824522783610658816

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby ranjan.rao » 26 Jan 2017 22:30

nethra is also the name of UAV, would have preferrred something more communal like "Agna Chakra"

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Prem Kumar » 26 Jan 2017 22:39

Netra! That's why order is restricted to 3. Because you know.... Shiva

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 12 Feb 2017 03:11

Aero India 2017: IAF to get first prying plane on Feb 14
http://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/ind ... -1.1723344

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Vivek K » 12 Feb 2017 22:20

They keep saying that India is behind China and Pukes in AEW! Why isn't IAF asking DRDO to make 20 more of these?

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby NRao » 12 Feb 2017 22:21

India to make six more AWACS on Airbus platform

"Once the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) clears and the Cabinet Committee for Security approves the proposal, the six AWACS will be made in seven years after the contract is signed with Airbus Defence & Space," Chairman of the state-run Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) S. Christopher told IANS here.

Estimated to cost Rs 20,000 crore ($3 billion), the AWACS will have 300-km range and 360 degree angle of coverage as against 200-km range and 240 degree angle of Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AEW&C) the DRDO has built on the Brazilian Embraer-145 modified jet for the Indian Air Force (IAF).

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Cybaru » 12 Feb 2017 22:44

Vivek K wrote:They keep saying that India is behind China and Pukes in AEW! Why isn't IAF asking DRDO to make 20 more of these?


I presume that they didn't care for something in the smaller platform.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Cain Marko » 12 Feb 2017 23:11

Vivek K wrote:They keep saying that India is behind China and Pukes in AEW! Why isn't IAF asking DRDO to make 20 more of these?

+12....if not 20 at least 6 more.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 13 Feb 2017 00:15

ACCESS: Up Close With India’s EMB-145i AEW&C
http://www.livefistdefence.com/2015/02/ ... i-aew.html

EXCLUSIVE: Indonesia Gets In Line For India’s New AEW&C Jet
http://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/02/ ... c-jet.html

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Cybaru » 13 Feb 2017 00:46

Same links Rakesh. Can you fix the first link? Does it have pics from inside?

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby kit » 13 Feb 2017 01:39

NRao wrote:India to make six more AWACS on Airbus platform

"Once the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) clears and the Cabinet Committee for Security approves the proposal, the six AWACS will be made in seven years after the contract is signed with Airbus Defence & Space," Chairman of the state-run Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) S. Christopher told IANS here.

Estimated to cost Rs 20,000 crore ($3 billion), the AWACS will have 300-km range and 360 degree angle of coverage as against 200-km range and 240 degree angle of Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AEW&C) the DRDO has built on the Brazilian Embraer-145 modified jet for the Indian Air Force (IAF).


the 300 km range seems quite conservative for a system with 4 AESA radars and a dedicated engine to power the whole setup !! .. 300 miles is more like it

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Cybaru » 13 Feb 2017 01:46

No country releases their awacs ranges. It's always top secret, so don't worry about random figures out of newspaper reports.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Viv S » 13 Feb 2017 01:50

Cybaru wrote:Same links Rakesh. Can you fix the first link? Does it have pics from inside?

Link's in the article. No interior pics though.

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2015/02/ ... i-aew.html

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 13 Feb 2017 02:19

Cybaru wrote:Same links Rakesh. Can you fix the first link? Does it have pics from inside?

Sorry dude! I fixed it now. No interior pics. I doubt you will see one either.

I have seen only one pic - on the internet - of the interior of the Phalcon. Screens were all turned off.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Cybaru » 13 Feb 2017 02:24

Screen turned off is fine! that is what I have seen, every time I have toured awacs.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 13 Feb 2017 03:50

Awesome shot of Netra!

Image

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Philip » 13 Feb 2017 10:57

Can't understand why an A-330 is required when a smaller platform like an EMB/Bombardier/SAAB will do.We will be able to double the number of AEW aircraft available .If a larger platform is required,then the IL-476s which are being used for the Phalcons will make it easier to support.They should actually cost far less than the A-330ss as well! By going in for A-330s,we will be adding yet another type to the fleet. The Airbus tankers decision was also rescinded some time ago on the cost factor.Is this a back-door entry/deal for Airbus?

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Neshant » 13 Feb 2017 11:19

India should work with friendly SE Asian countries to standardize some military equipment so it can be jointly developed & produced at lower costs.

Both India & Indonesia have similar security concerns of keeping sea lanes open from the Indian ocean down through the Straits of Malacca and through the South China sea.


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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 13 Feb 2017 11:30

Best is always enemy of good enough. 8 or 12 of these would be a sweet spot and keep things stable while a330 conversion only for indian market takes its own decade.

:(

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Zynda » 13 Feb 2017 14:51

Agree...need fewer more than 3 while the true blue AWACS will take longer duration. Perhaps the plan is to induct more Phalcon AWACS in lieu of Netra!

But the kind of encouragement shown by GoI/MoD in promoting this product internationally indicates that its performance meets or exceeds satisfaction. Shouldn't be any excuses not to induct Netra in larger numbers (6-8 at least).

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 13 Feb 2017 15:08

Philip wrote:Can't understand why an A-330 is required when a smaller platform like an EMB/Bombardier/SAAB will do.


Range and Time on station perhaps ?

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 13 Feb 2017 15:26

well the EMB145 based in agra/nagpur/panagarh etc should have no problem in doing the missions of the IL76 which is not exactly a fuel sipper. both have AAR.

IL76-with ps90 engine has a 5000km range with 52t payload..some say 4500km.

the ERJ145 has a range of 3000-3500km.

if they have managed to fit the cargo hold with some additional fuel like sukhoi superjet the range could be more....the saab2000 of the TSP also has 3200km range.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ero1CA_Vd7U/T ... on_195.jpg


probably the IAF wants unrefuelled 12 hr time on station with a 30 min transit from base to patrol area.
it would have roomy rest area for a 2nd full crew of around 15.

that only the A330/777 types can provide with their massive 13000km range with full load and upto 20,000km empty


a pair of these puppies would be running alternate 12 hr shifts over northern sector, another pair over central and another over eastern to lock down the PLAAF on a wide 3000km swathe. the phalcons and ERJs(we still need 12!) would probably generate redundant coverage over some sectors...and go closer in to generate on demand cover deeper into tibet for strike a/c

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 13 Feb 2017 15:40

The fact that AEW&C are to be based in Bhisiana, close to Bhatinda, which is under 100 km from the border, should tell you about how these birds are to be used.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby brar_w » 13 Feb 2017 16:20

Manish_P wrote:
Philip wrote:Can't understand why an A-330 is required when a smaller platform like an EMB/Bombardier/SAAB will do.


Range and Time on station perhaps ?


Larger platforms also allow larger sensors and provide greater space, weight and power (additional sources). This allows you to not only stay up longer, but also provide surveillance over a much larger area with fewer orbits.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Indranil » 13 Feb 2017 22:19

Image

Photo credit: Prasun Sengupta

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby sudeepj » 13 Feb 2017 23:13

rohitvats wrote:The fact that AEW&C are to be based in Bhisiana, close to Bhatinda, which is under 100 km from the border, should tell you about how these birds are to be used.


JSTARS?

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Khalsa » 14 Feb 2017 03:41

rohitvats wrote:The fact that AEW&C are to be based in Bhisiana, close to Bhatinda, which is under 100 km from the border, should tell you about how these birds are to be used.


Holy Crap .... Bathinda is spitting distance from the border with a holding corps.
If that place is not gonna invite trouble (from PAF) then what is....

Any AWAC platform better be protected by a swarm of fighters.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Cain Marko » 14 Feb 2017 08:45

Khalsa wrote:
rohitvats wrote:The fact that AEW&C are to be based in Bhisiana, close to Bhatinda, which is under 100 km from the border, should tell you about how these birds are to be used.


Holy Crap .... Bathinda is spitting distance from the border with a holding corps.
If that place is not gonna invite trouble (from PAF) then what is....

Any AWAC platform better be protected by a swarm of fighters.


Bigger danger might come from short ranged BMs and CMs, very very short response time. Nevertheless I'd expect these bases will be defended quite comprehensively. Fighter caps, LRSAM (which might have limited ABM capbility), Akash, Spyder. Upgraded pechoras too?

But seems like a real aggressive posture to keep AEW so far forward - IAF must be intending to dominate and fight the air war entirely over TSP space.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 14 Feb 2017 12:12

brar_w wrote:
Manish_P wrote:
Range and Time on station perhaps ?


Larger platforms also allow larger sensors and provide greater space, weight and power (additional sources). This allows you to not only stay up longer, but also provide surveillance over a much larger area with fewer orbits.


Yes. For the radar alone you get a larger gain antenna for more energy transmitted and received across more of the radio spectrum. More crew capacity to reduce workload and operate in shifts.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 14 Feb 2017 12:22

Khalsa wrote:
rohitvats wrote:The fact that AEW&C are to be based in Bhisiana, close to Bhatinda, which is under 100 km from the border, should tell you about how these birds are to be used.


Holy Crap .... Bathinda is spitting distance from the border with a holding corps.
If that place is not gonna invite trouble (from PAF) then what is....

Any AWAC platform better be protected by a swarm of fighters.



We have to remember that these will not just be used during any potential hostilities, but significantly during peace time. An AWACS is a defensive weapon system that will allow constant surveillance of the adversary to quantitatively characterize their air defense assets.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby shiv » 14 Feb 2017 15:10

Why is no one complaining that the Embraer is one more new aicraft type in an air force with too many types of aircraft? And that too only 3? Remember - the air force cannot handle so many aircraft types no? Why not eliminate it on those grounds? Pesky little minds want to know.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Austin » 14 Feb 2017 15:19

^^ I guess they went with what was available to them and who were willing to help , So we might have future AWACS fleet based on IL-76 , Embraer and A-330 , 3 onlee

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby sum » 14 Feb 2017 16:06

So we might have future AWACS fleet based on IL-76 , Embraer and A-330 , 3 onlee

Does any other AF operate 3 distinct aircrafts( with no shred of commanality) only for AWACs roles?

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby brar_w » 14 Feb 2017 16:36

You have to go with he options you have at any given time. Certainly it was not a deliberate attempt on part of the IAF to diversify the platforms. Once the A330 is delivered and is inducted they will standardize around it.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby A Deshmukh » 14 Feb 2017 18:37

sum wrote:
So we might have future AWACS fleet based on IL-76 , Embraer and A-330 , 3 onlee

Does any other AF operate 3 distinct aircrafts( with no shred of commanality) only for AWACs roles?

Embraer is more like LSP, before the real thing.
Now that the radars are ready, IAF should go the bigger aircrafts.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Indranil » 14 Feb 2017 22:57

shiv wrote:Why is no one complaining that the Embraer is one more new aicraft type in an air force with too many types of aircraft? And that too only 3? Remember - the air force cannot handle so many aircraft types no? Why not eliminate it on those grounds? Pesky little minds want to know.


Commonality, wherever possible should be pursued.

AEWs and AWACS can't have common platforms. But two different platforms for AWACS is obviously not ideal. If only the service-records of IL-76s were any better, then there was no reason to go for the A-330s. The development would have been much simpler and shorter. Aircraft modifications and sensors placements are known, tried, tested and operationalized. IAF is going for A-330s only because it has no faith in the IL-76 platforms. It has moved away from it in transport, refuelers and now AWACS. The fact that there are many A-330s flying around also helps its cause.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Karan M » 14 Feb 2017 23:14

Fighter types, MiG-21 MF, Bis, Bison, 23, 27, 29, Jaguar, Mirage 2000, LCA, Rafale, Su-30 MKI- 11 types with some sub variants

AWACs- IL-78, Embraer A330 3 types

Which is a challenge

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Cybaru » 14 Feb 2017 23:15

Aren't we getting two more il-76 based platforms pushing the total to 5?


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