Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

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NRao
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby NRao » 23 Aug 2012 06:36

^^^^^

If we have access to such details the GoI must have even more information to make decisions.

Such cat and mouse games have to be accepted, until a nation is near or totally self sufficient.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby suryag » 23 Aug 2012 12:10

Lots of pics of the AEW&C bird which landed yesterday night in bengaluru

http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/2012/08/prying-plane-makes-quiet-touchdown-at.html

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby MN Kumar » 23 Aug 2012 13:45

suryag wrote:Lots of pics of the AEW&C bird which landed yesterday night in bengaluru
http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/2012/08/prying-plane-makes-quiet-touchdown-at.html


I saw this around 10 PM flying overhead around Marathahalli.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby SaiK » 26 Aug 2012 00:43

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jM27bgQkPWM/U ... 750762.JPG

The aircraft, with the indigenous Active Electronic Scanning Array (AESA) radar, will be an “eye in the sky.” The radar can look 240 degrees within a short time and has a range of 350 km. It can track more than 500 targets simultaneously.



so, what is that black phulka on the top?

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby chiru » 26 Aug 2012 07:51

@ SaiK, its the c-band and ku band voice and data comm. equipment

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby SaiK » 26 Aug 2012 08:23

thank you. interesting, ku band i understand it is a nice position to do sat-comm, but I though c-band would be for mostly ground comm, and under the belly.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby dinesha » 26 Aug 2012 14:48

Image

Image

Image

Image

Bihanga
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Bihanga » 26 Aug 2012 20:52

How many of this Awacs we are planning to procure in near future? At the same time, do we have any name being chosen for this birds.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby SaiK » 26 Aug 2012 21:44

yup.. it is like the celebration.. rain the pilots. [champagnewater]

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby krishnan » 26 Aug 2012 21:45

And it seems the gentleman on the right is asking them to stop...

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby SaiK » 26 Aug 2012 22:14

or increase the shower? customs and practices.. some ganga jal is fine for the door steps.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby kmc_chacko » 26 Aug 2012 22:16

how many we have ordered and when do the DRDO expect to deliver the final one ?

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby SaiK » 26 Aug 2012 22:31

theen

tushar_m

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby tushar_m » 27 Aug 2012 09:13

any news on awacs project atleast the base aircraft should have to be decided soon so that we can get min 2-3 of them in 1-2 years when the AESA mounted radar is expected to be ready.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby SaiK » 27 Aug 2012 09:27

I think we need to go slow on that one, since, I think again, MKI and MMRCA and LCA should get AESA before that.. and see the requirements of net-centricity from there on.. what needs to be integrated, what kind of missions, what is a squadron, mission specific configs, etc... all these are indigenous requirements specially made for IAF.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby narmad » 27 Aug 2012 09:33

SaiK wrote:yup.. it is like the celebration.. rain the pilots. [champagnewater]

Water Canon Salute

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_salute

tushar_m

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby tushar_m » 27 Aug 2012 09:41

MKI is expected to get Russian AESA we got covered on that part MMRCA or rafale is getting RBE2 AA Active Electronically Scanned Array radar again covered on that front LCA have MMR radar which is developed or on testing i don't know . so again left we AWACS

i have again a question what is a requirement of fitting LCA with AESA it doesn't have that much range nor can carry heavy load again the AESA radar will require more power so it will again complicate the engine situation which is already not good .

better to target AMCA with AESA radar maybe LCA mk2 but LCA mk1 will act as technology demonstrator on AESA radar front
................. just my view

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 27 Aug 2012 09:48

pakspies claim aesa radar are less prone to jamming and RWR, have graceful degradation if some modules on faceplate fail, higher MTBF, better at interleaving A2G and A2A modes, and can track higher number of airborne targets vs a similar pkg of a pulse doppler radar.

that being said, a good radar like RDY2 level is still plenty enough for Tejas.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby SaiK » 27 Aug 2012 10:02

but one has to consider other advantages as well, like high bandwidth comm, EW, jammer, etc that could be achieved by some of these AESA modules, in addition to the inherent LPI aspects.. passive sensors/track and scan - combo [raptorian] is another area, we need to dig into.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 27 Aug 2012 10:14

one word: Cost.

if the cost of Tejas escalates high, will be even harder to convince IAF to invest in lots of Tejas. trick is get them into service in numbers with decent kit and then plan for future upgrades. a good missile to replace the r77 and completion of astra mk1 should be higher priority and easier to do.

Tejas @ FOC should be able to hold its own against M2K-upg, Mig29-upg and easily trounce the Mig27/Jag/Bison.....that was the original goal, not a micro-Rafale :D

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby SaiK » 27 Aug 2012 10:22

quite valid indeed.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby JTull » 31 Aug 2012 10:53

DRDO staffer, 10 others arrested for terror links in Bangalore

...one of the men arrested, works for Airborne Early Warning and Control System, a DRDO division...

member_23657
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby member_23657 » 31 Aug 2012 11:20

^
Earlier it was Indian Army and then Indian Navy.. Now it is DRDO.. Don't know where else we have these rat infestation...

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby rajanb » 31 Aug 2012 11:25

^
Rat infestations are everywhere. Remember the Chinese are experts at pest proliferation. And so would the pakis be considering that we have had previous cases of paki infestation.

member_23657
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby member_23657 » 31 Aug 2012 12:24

^ If we do not check this infestation, one day we can see one of the rats elected as MP/ PM or even President, having command and control of our entire armed forces and intelligence.. :oops: :evil: :twisted:

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby JTull » 31 Aug 2012 12:58

avinashpeter wrote:^ If we do not check this infestation, one day we can see one of the rats elected as MP/ PM or even President, having command and control of our entire armed forces and intelligence.. :oops: :evil: :twisted:


Do you actually believe there aren't any already? First clue is in finding MPs who rise from very local politics but are enightened enough to question the validity of certain procedures for evaluating state of the art equipment, the same procedures that were determined by an insititution (not an individual) after decades of experience.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 31 Aug 2012 13:18

one nearbengaloora reddy comes to mind.

SaiK
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby SaiK » 31 Aug 2012 17:13

well.. that is just the crust.. one must dig to core to find more., and it WILL surprise you with inherent and coherent RAT structure.

Rouges & Adversaries for Terror

or

Rouges, Adversaries & Traitors, Inc

SaiK
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby SaiK » 20 Sep 2012 19:42

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=19636
Designed and developed by the city-based Centre for Airborne Systems (CABS) of DRDO to detect enemy aircraft, battle ships and terrain vehicles at long ranges the airborne radar has an active electronically scanned array (AESA) atop the customised EMG-145 fuselage and about 60 antennae and sensors over the body of the 4.5-tonne aircraft.

"For the first time, the aircraft has air-to-air refueling system to extend its flying hours (time-on-station). The cabin has been reconfigured to have five operator work stations, four equipment racks, additional fuselage fuel tanks and five rest crew seats,"

"We will use the AEW&C system along with the (Israeli-built) Phalcon airborne warning and control system (AWACS) platform with the AESA mounted atop the IL-76 (Russian built Illyushin) to enhance our air warfare,"

"The world is watching this radar with bated breath as its development will benefit Embraer and DRDO to collaborate for producing a cost-effective and formidable force multipliers in the global market,"



It would be a value addition, if we can fit a FCR, and at least 4 to 6 pylons for Akash or KS172 types and brahmos on these platforms.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby pushkar.bhat » 20 Sep 2012 20:17

SaiK wrote:
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=19636
Designed and developed by the city-based Centre for Airborne Systems (CABS) of DRDO to detect enemy aircraft, battle ships and terrain vehicles at long ranges the airborne radar has an active electronically scanned array (AESA) atop the customised EMG-145 fuselage and about 60 antennae and sensors over the body of the 4.5-tonne aircraft.

"For the first time, the aircraft has air-to-air refueling system to extend its flying hours (time-on-station). The cabin has been reconfigured to have five operator work stations, four equipment racks, additional fuselage fuel tanks and five rest crew seats,"

"We will use the AEW&C system along with the (Israeli-built) Phalcon airborne warning and control system (AWACS) platform with the AESA mounted atop the IL-76 (Russian built Illyushin) to enhance our air warfare,"

"The world is watching this radar with bated breath as its development will benefit Embraer and DRDO to collaborate for producing a cost-effective and formidable force multipliers in the global market,"



It would be a value addition, if we can fit a FCR, and at least 4 to 6 pylons for Akash or KS172 types and brahmos on these platforms.


Yes and also add thrust vectoring capabilities like the Rambha :rotfl: Bacche ki jan loge kya

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby SaiK » 20 Sep 2012 20:47

why that silly rant? check out emb 145 pylons for possibilities.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby nakul » 20 Sep 2012 20:56

I don't think there is really a problem with putting weapons onboard. But it will come with a performance penalty. It might be a safer option to put these weapons on the escort aircraft. The niggles of launching weapons have already been sorted out on these. This makes sense for planes that travel unescorted (P 8I, Tu-142). For AEW&C, it is usual to have a few planes escorting them.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby pushkar.bhat » 20 Sep 2012 21:09

SaiK wrote:why that silly rant? check out emb 145 pylons for possibilities.


No offense meant SaiK. What kinda tickled me was the Bramhos thing. Huge penalties of carrying such a weapon system on a AEW&C will take a whole lot of sting out of the platform.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby SaiK » 20 Sep 2012 21:12

Sure..I agree.

For that matter, escorts are mandatory for any such airborne system. I was taking a bit further, having a long endurance, let us say on deep strike return missions, your squadron is attacked with a larger number of chippanda Jxs?., and very little support available as counter-attack begins to focus on dedicated support. At such times, one can expect.. such value additions pays. But the right kind of weapons config could help in addition to taking care of itself and providing more value addition.

May be AEW&C is a wrong platform, perhaps the AWACs can.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby nakul » 20 Sep 2012 22:41

"The world is watching this radar with bated breath as its development will benefit Embraer and DRDO to collaborate for producing a cost-effective and formidable force multipliers in the global market,"


That is very ambitious IMHO. The competition in this field is low. We could make a dent with the right price. Cost is the main reason why many air forces dont have them.

A combo of 25 LCA with 1 AEW&C for 1 billion would be a good idea. Saab sold a deal involving Grippens & Eriye to Thailand. We need to ramp our production lines, however. This could also boost Astra development. External financing (via exports) could make DRDO less dependent on IAF allowing multiple developments in parallel.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby SaiK » 20 Sep 2012 22:55

good point nakul.. package deal wins. don't sell them without a squadron of LCA.

and, embraer also could think about zonal or medium range refuelers.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby nakul » 21 Sep 2012 01:35

India to soon fly home-grown surveillance radar

The IAF has bought three Phalcon AWACS on IL-76 for $1.1 billion under a tripartite agreement with Israel and Russia in 2004.

Embraer will deliver the second aircraft to IAF in December and the third in 2013 after full certification and testing.

"In the long-term, we will have 15 aircraft with surveillance radars, including five on AWACS India platform to meet the security needs of our large country whose interests extend beyond borders to Car Nicobar islands," Browne observed.


There we have it. 15 airborne radars, including five on AWACS India. I guess the breakdown is as follows:

3 IAI Phalcons
7 DRDO AEW&C
5 AWACS India

We could split them in the ratio 1:3:1 for Pakistan:China:IOR.

Since we are not going to manufacture the aircrafts ourselves, the timeline will depend on the supply of planes. Integration should take less time. Moreover, once we have AWACS India kicking, the DRDO AEW&C could be opened for export!

A few exercise with SEA air forces would not go amiss either. A good way to establish strong relations is to sell weapons. With a lot of countries wakening up to the Chinese threat, it opens up a huge market for us. Moreover, countries will be more willing to buy from a rival of China for geopolitical reasons.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby SaiK » 21 Sep 2012 01:40

It may not be enough to counter chippanda and pakis together.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 21 Sep 2012 07:01

Nowhere enough. 7 aew is just a trap which will make unit cost super high. Around 25 aew need to be made and fielded with 2 remaining in cabs for rolling upg and training n tests.

7 is a joke...enough for sri lanka maybe

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby member_23370 » 21 Sep 2012 12:01

6-7is enough for pakis but to cover Indian air space we need 18 minimum with IAF and a dozen with IN.


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